Anonymous
Earlier this year

SCC Results

Some interesting SCC results. Vic Metro pretty dominant across the tournament, but some good results in individual age groups. SA Country making the final in u14 girls seems a particularly good effort, particularly as Vic Metro only fielded 2 teams in u14's and had the top 3 teams in u15's.

2020 SOUTHERN CROSS CHALLENGE - FINAL RESULTS
U15 Boys
Vic Metro White
Vic Metro Navy
NSW Metro
Vic Country Bushrangers
WA Metro
SA Metro Blue
Vic Country Goldminers
Vic Metro Orange
NSW Country
SA Country Sharks
WA Country
SA Country Magpies
SA Metro Red
ACT

U15 Girls
Vic Metro Orange
Vic Metro Navy
Vic Metro White
Vic Country Goldminers
SA Metro Blue
NSW Country
Vic Country Bushrangers
WA Metro
NSW Metro
SA Metro Red
WA Country
ACT
SA Country Magpies
SA Country Sharks

U14 Boys
Vic Metro Navy
Vic Metro Orange
SA Metro Blue
NSW Metro
NSW Country
WA Metro
Vic Country Goldminers
SA Metro Red
WA Country
SA Country
Vic Country Bushrangers
ACT


U14 Girls
1.Vic Metro Navy
SA Country
Vic Metro Orange
Vic Country Goldminers
NSW Metro
Vic Country Bushrangers
WA Metro
SA Metro Red
SA Metro Blue
ACT
NSW Country
WA Country

Topic #46764 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Sa very disappointing overall.

6-10-12-13 boys u15
5-10-13-14 girls u15
3-8-10 boys u14
2-8-9 girls u14

Reply #788088 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Slight Improvement from wa.

Reply #788089 | Report this post


Anon  
Earlier this year

Your mama is very disappointing

Reply #788119 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

SA teams were ordinary apart from the 14's Country team who did well. VM had better athletes that weren't selected for whatever reason? Dont get ahead of yourselves it is only a development tournament.

Reply #788136 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Qld the only vic challengers

Reply #788137 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I have mentioned on previous posts SA is a soft competition, not enough regular high quality games against competitive teams in a system that breeds mediocrity. What else can you expect....

Reply #788167 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The best SA teams who have won medals at Classics and 14 Clubs have played in competitions which have only 2 or 3 very good teams.

Having an even competition doesn't actually make your players better. Just means that each team has a bunch of average players.

That another urban myth often found here.

Reply #788175 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Not talking about an even competition more about a consistent higher level of competition.
The results peak for themselves in Victoria.

Reply #788178 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

718, 715 is right.

Blaming the competition is a copout by coaches that can't develop players.

A good comp would mean players have 20 mins of high-level competition playing time per week. These kids will soon spend 6-7 hours training per week. Figure out where kids will do vast majority of their development. True competition would help but it is a very small part of it. Focus on the development players get in their training envrionment at club and high performance program level and stop blaming the Friday night comp and sure enough some of your guys might actually become good players.

And even better still find/figure out how to develop the intrinsic motivation of your athletes to do extra work in the weights room and on their skill development and suddenly that 6-7 hours of practice time vs 20 mins of game time blows out to 15-20 hours of development time vs 20s mins. But NO you will sit back and keep blaming "the competition" instead of try to figure out how to make your guys good.

Reply #788179 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

You are right, they have shit coaches in SA and every other state other than Vic

Reply #788194 | Report this post


Brunson  
Earlier this year

"The results peak for themselves in Victoria."

Yes with more than 3 times the population of SA. Congratulations

Reply #788195 | Report this post


Vic Rules...With Iron Fis  
Earlier this year

The haughty Vics will always have a huge advantage resulting from the size of population and depth of resources..

..and they will always ensure that competitions are structured to their advantage.

The rest of the Australian basketball community needs to stand up to them, or things will never change and the Vics will be boasting about how wonderful they are, for a long time to come.

Reply #788205 | Report this post


John  
Earlier this year

If it was down to population, wouldn't NSW be leading the way ?

Reply #788221 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Stand up to them how? To what end? It wouldn't be in the best interests of Australian basketball to try and undermine much of anything that happens in Victoria and you'd be unlikely to succeed, anyway. Want to host a major tournament on the June long weekend? Good luck. Hoping to get some teams away from E/D? No one is turning down the world's largest junior tournament to come to your poorly-run startup.

SCC is a weird event, but I wouldn't stress out that the Vics are so dominant there. It's a development tournament for players, coaches and refs and most teams are severely underdone in terms of structure and organisation. There's no scouting, because there's nothing to scout. Your best weapons for beating a more talented group are basically neutralised in that setting, and the Vics are going to be the most talented group more than 9 times out of 10.

Reply #788222 | Report this post


Uncle Drew  
Earlier this year

Is there any benefit training with higher caliber players or is it only the coaches. Success breeds success.

Reply #788224 | Report this post


Vic Rules...With Iron Fis  
Earlier this year

John, yes, you would. They do manage to win more tournaments than the smaller states, but possibly due more to the sheer depth of their talent pool, than good management.

Anonymous, not just referencing the SCC. Name any tournament including teams from interstate and the Vic Metro teams win a very large swathe of them. Then there is the NBL and NBL1, which are run out of Vic.

Basketball in Vic is well run and incredibly popular with very large playing numbers and substantial physical, coaching and financial resources. They go into every junior tournament with that enormous advantage.

The Vics are quite happy to dominate across nearly all levels, year in and year out, and then happily boast about how good they are.

They must hate the Wildcats. And when those upstart Pioneers from SA dominated the SEABL competition, the jealous Vic teams got them kicked out and tried to hide by changing the competition's name..it didn't work.

Of course there are changes that could be made to level the playing field in the numerous junior tournaments. All it would take is for some states to stand up for themselves.

Reply #788268 | Report this post


John  
Earlier this year

What changes ?

Reply #788277 | Report this post


179  
Earlier this year

Yes, correct.

The U20 SA Men in 2017 dominated and won gold for first time in at least a couple decades. In 16s that age group finished worse than 10th. What happened? Was the competition they played against locally strong for their 20 mins of game each Friday night?

The U18 SA Metro men won silver last year. In 16s they were 5th. What happened? Did the competition suddenly make them better?

The 16s SA Metro team medalled last year. Was the competition in 16s on a Friday particularly strong here?

Plus out of these age groups there have been multiple Classics medals. Was this due to the peak in Friday night competition?

Plus more kids go to the CoE/AIS/NBA Global, onto D1 collegiate level and now about to begin to hit the pros. Was this due to a sudden boom in the Friday night competition here in SA?

Think/learn/develop your ability about player development and maybe stop blaming "the competition".

The problem is player development often involves sacrificing short term success for massive longer term gain. That involves these youth coaches sacrificing themselves and all of them are self-serving and/or just don't get it.

Reply #788285 | Report this post


179  
Earlier this year

Friday night competition is almost irrelevant to success at higher levels. It won't get better either until we actually focus on player development. No point complaining about it. What is relevent? Competition at trainings. Ability to instil confidence and self-belief in athletes. Develop intrinsic motivation so they go away and put in the copious amounts of work individually to develop to that level. Instilling high level, elite, rapid decision making skills in players rather than boxing them in roles and mitigating their growth. I could go on.

Reply #788287 | Report this post


Vic Rules...With Iron Fis  
Earlier this year

If memory serves, teams from Vic and NSW win 70-80% of all national junior titles.

Level playing field?

Don't think so.

Reply #788294 | Report this post


John  
Earlier this year

What changes would you make Vic Rules ?
Separate the Vic Teams so that the other states have more of a chance to win ?

Reply #788299 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The first State that prioritises skill and physical development over money and winning in younger age groups will gain a massive advantage. SA have a good enough competition, if they do other things better, to be better than Vic in the older age groups despite the disadvantage they have in numbers. Basketball Vic's pathway is a joke, its just covered up by some well run club programs and shear numbers.

Reply #788300 | Report this post


179  
Earlier this year

A-Men!

Reply #788301 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I agree with the idea that Friday night competition doesn't have as much of an impact as training and individual player development but the higher standard of competition amongst victorian players is a massive factor.

If you take away the Friday night game time they still get to compete against high level players at training and as there's more of them in vic at the moment, players will just get better by playing better players more often as a result. SA have a few really good teams and the players in those teams will be fine as they'll play against other high level players in their own team but theres kids in those 5th and 6th teams who wont be as good as they could be through not being able to compete against higher skilled players.

Infrastructure and training programs play a massive part in this, really hard to find casual court space in places like Queensland but there are hundreds of courts available in vic that allow players to refine their game

Reply #788304 | Report this post


179  
Earlier this year

Excuses, excuses, excuses. I assume you are one of these people that get bitter at those that deliver solutions.

Reply #788305 | Report this post


Vic Rules  
Earlier this year

John, making a genuine attempt to make adjustments around population and/or participation numbers would go some way to levelling the field.

Splitting Melbourne into roughly three equal sized regions might go some way towards offsetting their enormous advantage in both resources and participation numbers.

Splitting Sydney into two roughly equal regions would hopefully offset their substantial population advantage.

Teams from smaller capital cities, regions and country squads could then have more realistic hopes of greater competitivenss and even championship success.

Otherwise, Vic Metro just march along, dominating and self-congratulating.

Reply #788328 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

You only have to produce 10 talented kids over 2 years to have a chance at winning, yet vic dominate almost every year.

Reply #788330 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Why wouldn't we try a handicap system where based on previous years winning margin different states get a head start?
Eg
Vic 0
Nsw 10pts
Act 15pts
Qld 22pts
SA 35pts

Reply #788354 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Why not give every state a gold medal instead of splitting Victoria up. It's the same result. This is sport. You actually have to be good to win. We teach kids as it stands to be mediocre by letting domestic teams in many associations to play finals. When they become adults they wonder why they cannot get jobs. Life is about competing.

Reply #788375 | Report this post


Vic Rules  
Earlier this year

Not just a case of having some talented kids, more than that involved in being successful at national competition's.

Not the same at all as giving everyone a gold medal.

No extra medals would be on offer but many more squads with a more realistic chance of success.

Or we could just carry on giving the majority of the gold medals to the Vic Metro teams...


Reply #788388 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Youth development

Vic rule at basketball
Nsw rule at soccer
Qld rule at rugby
Sa at ping pong
Etc

Reply #788391 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I wouldn't say Vic rule at youth development. I'd say the masses of population mean they win junior tournaments. For all their success at junior national torunaments I'd say traditionally not enough players have gone on with it. Might change now with all the great resources they are throwing at this.

From where I sit it goes in ebs and flows in certain states and seems to coincide with certain people working in the space for periods of time but then they move on or get feddup and it all dies off. We saw it in QLD with Leonard King involved for a period of time but what did he leave in place?

The key is to develop a sustainable model. Pick the brains of those that really know how to get it done, with proven success in the space, implement these ideas, then a real hotbed of talent will be developed in the region that does that. Basketball, in general, is really bad at generating sustainable success in this space.

Reply #788422 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Vic really needs the other States to lift there games. If you listen to BV podcast with the former high performance coaches they are quite clear that Vic kids play too many games and don't do enough work on individual development. But this will never change unless the other States start beating them more often, because the competitions generate so much money.

The Vic teams really underperformed in the u14 section of SCC, compared to the u15's. The u14 age group is really strong in both boys and girls, but the teams were very poorly selected, underprepared and the coaches seemed to be happy for some of the kids to play hero ball the whole tournament. I would suggest this is a reflection on the performance of the new high performance coaches. I don't like the chances of them making any changes for the better without being forced to by weight of underperformance.

Reply #788426 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Victoria versus all stars?

Reply #788527 | Report this post


Triton 26  
Earlier this year

Some interesting arguments here. Victoria are strong for two reasons - population and a really strong program.
NSW have population but not a great program.

In SA I do think the accumulation of talent in one or two teams hinders development of players in those teams. Unfortunately it also gets them picked in State teams. I do look at some of the people picked and wonder how they would go if they played on the bottom team? Would they stand out or would they struggle?

The recent U18 SA teams really highlighted the issues with teams accumulating talent.

The SA U18 girls team consists of;
Forestville 5
Sturt 3
South 2

The SA U18 boys team consists of;
North 5
Sturt 4
Southern 1.

The best players just don't get challenged often enough in the District competition unfortunately.

Reply #788652 | Report this post




 

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