Anonymous
Years ago
United moved to 5-0 today - I am beginning to think that undefeated season that Jock Landale spoke of is a real possibility.
Let's keep a watch for it in this thread. Next up:
The Hawks on Wed 10 Feb. Given how poor the Hawks looked today, I like United's chances there.
Pretty weak competition I say. The NBL Cup will sort out the pecking order very soon.
Perthworld
Years ago
No team looks good except for United. After a run of seasons where we've had really good parity it's looking bleak at the moment.
JMS
Years ago
@Perthworld, I think it's a pretty even league so far. The Hawks have been scintillating apart from the last game. They’ve got amazing scoring power, team defence and are very deep. Potentially the return of Bairstow and Adel may have upset the chemistry but they certainly have the roster. Perth with some slight adjustments would be 2 and 1. If Blachfield steps up they can beat anyone. Kings it’s hard to know as they’re so injury ravaged. Cairns have been the big disappointment.
LV
Years ago
United haven't been too impressive despite being 5-0
Except Adelaide all have been very close, even Brisbane the game was close throughout
Kings at full strength, or NZ appear the best prospects to challenge United at the business end. Both groups full of very experienced campaigners, deep squads with plenty of talent
Another Anon
Years ago
Everyone under Melb looks very even.
That said, Wildcats were up by 10 half way through the 3rd and if Cotton had some better shooters around him it'll be a different story.
Melb are clearly stacked far beyond the rest of the comp (salary anyone?) but they're still vulnerable and will lose, possibly sooner rather than later.
Will be a pretty boring season if they go undefeated. I know United are the darlings of the league, but surely the NBL must realise it's not actually good for their product to have one team dominate like that. One of the things that makes the NBL good to watch is that it’s a fairly even competition.
Having said that, most of their wins have not been blowouts. Perth came close to winning last night. I believe they can and will be beaten.
Bubbles is out along with Ili. Losses will follow
The two guys who have made United really strong is White and Baba. Both are much better than I expected.
United will not go undefeated. They're luckily to be undefeated after 5 games, so not sure why some seemed concerned about them not losing this season...
Didn’t the Kings start 11-1 last season? They didn’t win in the end
LV
Years ago
Plenty of recent teams who started this well ended up losing...
eg United 9-0 then lost in the semis under Demopoulos
Kings 7-0 I think in Gaze's first year
Kings 11-1 under Weaver
Injuries can upset the system very quickly, you lose your best player or two and goneski. Imagine Perth without Cotton.
"The two guys who have made United really strong is White and Baba. Both are much better than I expected."
Agree 100%. Baba is proving to be an exceptional signing providing a starting quality guard off the bench. Certainly think teams will be looking to Asia for depth from now on.
White has been outstanding. He's a LOT more athletic than advertised and he’s holding down the 4 spot extremely well for a first year pro. Will be interesting to see who wins ROY between him and Giddey.
Scary thing about United is McCarron is out of form but when he turns things around and they shake these two injuries, they will be very tough to beat right through the season
LV
Years ago
White unbelievable impact.
Hopson massively underachieving against expectations, so they kind of balance out.
McCarron has been solid the past 2 games.
Ili and Baba I think is some of the best guard depth ever seen in the NBL. Both have national team experience. Tremendous combination at the defensive end, and both are scoring too. It's a group that is working from a balance perspective- none of Baba, McCarron or Ili are shoot first guys- which means CG isn't competing for shots with them. It's a nice backcourt mix.
The issue is more around fitting Hopson into the mix. He's looking more comfortable the past 2 games and finding some shots for others, but still lacks touch. They'll be patient with him but will start getting concerned if we don't see improved production very soon, especially given he'll have the reigns of the offense with CG out. Challenge lies ahead for Hop.
Ili and Baba I think is some of the best guard depth ever seen in the NBL.
Oh dear
orbit
Years ago
Hodgson also not yet firing - lookout when that happens!!
McCarron has done a fine job running the team, he plays good D, it's not all about points. To many punters just look at the points column, Trimble will score 20 plus a game but not lead you to a championship.
McCarron has done a fine job running the team, he plays good D, it's not all about points. To many punters just look at the points column, Trimble will score 20 plus a game but not lead you to a championship.
JMS
Years ago
@LV, yes spot on. Originally it was thought White would be off the bench with Barlow starting. His athleticism, rebounding focus and ability to run the floor has been a perfect compliment to Landale and has enabled Barlow to take a backseat. Agree that the backcourt depth provided by Ili and Baba is very rare in this league. I also think that Jo Lual-Acuil has improved significantly and is a real threat off the bench. The pairing with Landale presents a lot of problems as they both stretch the floor but a dominant inside. McCarron has been very solid of late (scored down the stretch v Perth) and is looking more comfortable running the offence.
orbit
Years ago
McCarron is a true point guard who's perfect for this group as is pass first. he also takes the stud on the other team as is a great defender. The box scores don't show his worth.
Hopson doesn't really fit in United’s current line up. I think Goulding not being there will be actually be good for Hopson.
Kassie
Years ago
Shea Ili & Chris Goulding - both out for 3-4 weeks
Pretty embarrassing for fans of the league to call foul whenever Melbourne are successful in any way. The consistent complaint of salary cap exploitation or favouritism from the league is just false. At least two other teams in the league pay their players more this season for a start.
Why can the reason not just be that they're a well-run organisation that has recruited well and is running a good system?
Even when there is evidence of blatant favoritism?
Not certain which roster is paid more than United. Yes United are a well run club, from the top to the bottom and attract good sponsors. Perth and United are exemplary. Few clubs now catching up to.
Melbourne at 9x the amount of fouls called on them than Perth did in the first half, Perth shot way more free throws, and Norton constantly was rewarded for his flopping and exaggerations, yet all that was overlooked for decisions which went to a replay and were confirmed? Yeah right, favoritism. And that is ignoring your use of the word 'evidence'. Do you care to share said evidence, or you just want to blatantly talk out of the side of your mouth?
Norton constantly was rewarded for his flopping and exaggerations
what?
Which 2 teams are paying more than United this season? Please do tell us.
"Why can the reason not just be that they're a well-run organisation that has recruited well and is running a good system?"
I think most people acknowledge this is true, while also recognising United's position of privilege in the league.
LV
Years ago
Bryce Cotton is the biggest protected species in the NBL since.....well, since I don't know who
Let I dig up the thread from the 2019 GF series where I listed the time stamps of the 9 "fouls" called on Mitch McCarron in Games 1 and 3 of the 2019 GF in Perth, very few if any of which were actually fouls
Perhaps we should review the footage of Game 3 of last year's semi final series where United narrowly missed out on the opportunity to play Perth in the Grand Final who they had a very nice record against (2 narrow losses early in the season, first missing several key players and 2ndly 3 days after stepping off a plane from the US. Then 2 comfortable victories later in the season)
If anyone thinks United has been "priveleged" the last couple of years, you're obviously just having a laugh
United are a big spending club, no doubt. As are Sydney, Perth and NZ.
"United are a big spending club, no doubt. As are Sydney, Perth and NZ."
I think Sydney spent a massive amount last year and didn't win the title, so money spent doesn't always equal success.
They poached Ware from United to make him the highest paid import in the league.
Bogut was on big coin
And that's before you consider Cooks, who was playing in Europe so was on good coin, Lisch, Newley, Tate, Didi, Kickert
United generally spend a lot of money too. Signed a Euroleague big in Landale, generally always poach a big name import from other team like Hopson, S. Long, Trimble, Prather etc
"United haven't been too impressive despite being 5-0
Except Adelaide all have been very close, even Brisbane the game was close throughout"
This is exactly the sign of a team that can go undefeated. They win the close ones when they're not necessarily playing at their best.
LV
Years ago
[This is exactly the sign of a team that can go undefeated. They win the close ones when they're not necessarily playing at their best.]
It's a good sign.
It indicates their depth. They're going 40 minutes and bringing guys like JLA, Barlow, Ili and Baba off the bench. They're defensively tough so teams will find it hard to get in front of them. Depth + Elite talent means they'll be both consistently competitive and should win more close ones than they lose.
Best in NBL history though is 24-2. In that 2006-2009 time there were some good records (27-3, 28-5, 26-6). Even Bullets went 28-5 in their epic 2007 season. I think those records show the insane difficulty level of going undefeated though. Even Curry's Warriors and Jordan's Bulls went 73-9 and 72-10 at their peak.
Although the fixture's giving them some favours with the Melbourne Cup. Lots of Melbourne games coming up. Let's see.
NZ were 28-4 in 2012/13. Would be interested to know the last time a team went undefeated in a high-class basketball league around the world.
LV
Years ago
When you factor in:
- Melbourne Cup
- NZ being away all year (where are NZ based? Do I remember reading they're based in Mel/Vic?)
- SEM being in the comp
Melbourne’s split of home/neutral/away games will be quite favourable.
They’ll have fewer true away games than any team in NBL history
LV
Years ago
Having said that, I think an undefeated season is still incredibly unlikely, especially given injuries to both Ili and CG.
But that home/neutral/away split definitely lends itself towards a better than usual regular season record.
Their draw was already favourable from recent seasons. They've never been able to capitalise on it though.
LV
Years ago
How was it favorable in recent seasons?
Last year they had about 3 or 4 days off the plane from the US till their next game (where they lost a nail biter) after playing 2 games in the US. Other teams either didn't travel to the US, or got 6 or 7 days break after travelling.
Because they haven't played an away game in the final round of the season for four or five years. No other team has had that luxury.
It was their choice to play in the US, they need to be willing to accept the logistics of it all.
Other teams "made the choice" to play in the US and were not made to play a NBL game so quickly after their return.
Not sure playing the last round away is that big a deal, as there is a break before finals. And they played 2 games in the final round, which can't be much better for fatigue or injury risk than 1 away game.
Melbourne Arena is unavailable for most of January every years, so yes they tend to play more home games in Feb. Not sure it’s a conspiracy.
The Goulding injury might derail undefeated season.
Hopson is the one who needs to step up.
LV
Years ago
Oh so that's what you call a "favourable fixture"
haha. Right.
LV this has been spelt out to you before and last time you just ignored it.
Not sure playing the last round away is that big a deal, as there is a break before finals. And they played 2 games in the final round, which can't be much better for fatigue or injury risk than 1 away game.
Thats one season. Now do the previous four.
So I have checked 2019. United played 2 games in the last round.
It's all pretty irrelevant anyway, as there were 11 days between the last game of the regular season and the first game of the finals, so plenty of time to recover from whatever schedule you are facing in the last round...
It’s quite ridiculous to keep banging on about the last round scheduling as proof of United being advantaged.
LV
Years ago
[LV this has been spelt out to you before and last time you just ignored it.]
Cos it's a non issue for reasons succinctly put by anon #831590
You're grasping at straws and nothing more needs to be said
Now do 2015 to 2018, then check how all other teams fared in the same period.
Wikipedia is a wonderful tool. The 2018 regular season finished on 18/02, the finals started on 03/03 - 13 days later.
But yeah keep banging on about last round scheduling as your proof of favourable treatment towards United
rjd
Years ago
I've felt United has been vulnerable in each game, so the 5-0 record doesn't convince me that they are likely to go undefeated. Baba and particularly White have been surprises. If White can consistently nail that 3, he's Boomers material. Ili has been shooting the lights out, another surprise, and you have to wonder if he can keep that up. On the other hand, Hopson has under-performed and looked disconnected from the United system, so you'd expect to see big improvements there.
I really disliked some United teams in previous years. United is much more likeable this year. Less hero ballers, less arrogance, more passion, more intensity.
White is a workhorse and looks like a Martin-esque winner. Baba is another who plays hard every minute and has a winning pedigree. McCarron's numbers might not compare well to last season, but he's doing a lot of good things out there in his current role. Goulding has the supporting cast to be Goulding. United will rely a lot on Goulding to stay in form. Landale's inside-outside game has been outstanding. I love Landale's passion out there; he's not a self-centred star. On a team with more ball dominant players, Lual-Acuil's blackhole style would be incredibly frustrating, but he's become useful with, as Gaze would say, an absolute green light. Hopson needs to be able to step up if Goulding has an off, or injured, night.
Hopson reminds me a bit of Demetrius Conger ( ?spelling ) was great when Bevo played everything through him but struggled at Sixers when other players needed the ball. Like Conger, an average defender as well. Vickerman will get him on at the right time for him to be effective though.
"United are a big spending club, no doubt. As are Sydney, Perth and NZ."
I wouldn't call NZ big spending, and they’re certainly nowhere near United’s level. They couldn’t afford Hopson remember, that’s why he’s playing for United.
But when Ware leaves for Sydney, money has nothing to do with it. Players come to United for the money, they leave for other reasons. Love the consistency.
Maybe the Breakers chose Patterson instead? Or maybe Hopson preferred playing / living in Melbourne for similar money?
But no big bad United is just splashing cash around, always.
"Maybe the Breakers chose Patterson instead? Or maybe Hopson preferred playing / living in Melbourne for similar money?"
This has been well documented. Hopson had a price the Breakers couldn't afford, that’s why they signed Patterson. I’m sure many imports would prefer living in Melbourne, that’s another advantage they have over other clubs.
Why are United fans always in denial about the fact they outspend everyone else?
LV
Years ago
[
Why are United fans always in denial about the fact they outspend everyone else?]
Oh I dunno, maybe cos our gun import spurned us to sign with Sydney, as did the most sought after Aussie signature ever in Bogut? Then the same Kings team took Moller off us, and brought in Cooks, while already having Kickert, Newley?
What's denial is ppl thinking United are the only big spending club
"Oh I dunno, maybe cos our gun import spurned us to sign with Sydney, as did the most sought after Aussie signature ever in Bogut? Then the same Kings team took Moller off us, and brought in Cooks, while already having Kickert, Newley?"
Lisch wasn't cheap either.
Then they had Tate (not sure if he was highly sought after prior to the season though) and also Louzada (who was on the league's payroll)
LV
Years ago
United remains undefeated while healthy or missing one player
All 5 losses have been with 2 or more players missing
20 Feb 85-89 vs Perth- Missing CG & Ili
7 March, 88-96 vs Bris- Hopson, White
10 March- 92-97 (OT) vs SEM- Hopson, White
13 March- 69-77 vs Ill- Hopson, White, Baba
19 March- 75-103 @ Syd- Hopson, White, McDaniel
I think United's now 8-0 while healthy or missing 1, and 10-5 missing 2+
You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.
Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.
An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 5:49 pm, Sat 27 Apr 2024 | Posts: 968,026 | Last 7 days: 754
