Last month

Is this a zone defence ?

Trying to clarify this minefield. So I was watching an U10 game recently - the tallest / biggest player - under instructions of the coach was to run back into a goalie (goal defence) under the basket in the keyway position everytime the other team had the ball. The rest of the team seemed to play their player to the best of their ability. One ref was a green shift and the other much older than the playing group. Is this a zone ? - all 5 did not run back and stand around keyway - but the single back certainly thwarted many baskets forcing outside shots that U10s couldn't make and ruled out any open lay ups.

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Last month

sorry should read "other ref not much older than the playing group"

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Last month

Yes but 1) good luck proving it as BA has a very limited method and 2) good luck getting a Court Supervisor to care, know how to pick a zone & be willing to follow through on the protocols.

Been happening ever since the rule was introduced, the clubs which are loudest anti-zone are the biggest breakers of the rule via methods like the one you just pointed out.

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Well Read  
Last month

OP, one player is 'zoning' obviously, but I'm not up to date with the zone busting rules since (very fortunately) the overwhelming majority of coaches seem to abide by the no-zone rules.

Nonetheless, this is not in the spirit of the game regardless of whether it technically breaks the rules.

If you can be bothered, I would bring this to the attention of your club or the opposition club via their coaching director/club manager/JDO. Some coaches mean well, but don't understand that these instructions are detrimental to everyone involved.

Reply #840069 | Report this post

Last month

It is a zone defence to tell the 4 guys not guarding the ball to have one foot in the paint? No, but it's messed up either way.

A lot of people who scream about zones and traps love using bullshit strategies like these.

Reply #840109 | Report this post

Last month

It doesn't take much for a support m2m to develop into a pack-line defence. It also doesn’t take much for a support m2m to be mistaken for a zone when players seem to stay in the key too much.

I’ve had other coaches abuse me for even using a support m2m in u12s, so imagine how they’d go with a pack-line, both of which are legit TEAM m2m defences.

It’s like the m2m they want to see is purely individual m2m, not team m2m.

Reply #840115 | Report this post

Last month

I agree with what you're saying Hoopie, but the OP is talking about something different, where a big just plants themselves in the paint and does not actively guard anyone.

In your scenario all players have asignments, and will move as the ball is in the air when required. Good coaching and in the spirit of the game. The paint is probably always occupied by an off ball defender. Fair enough.

Quite different from just planting your biggest kid in the middle of the key and have them guard space exclusively.

Reply #840117 | Report this post

Earlier this month

that's what I was on about - it was like having a goalkeeper in soccer - totally took away any opportunity of a lay up. I am unsure if that is zoning ? ball was right down other end of court but they were sent back under the basket everytime. The green shift was learning to make a call let alone a technicality like this and the other ref similar.

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Earlier this month

Zones are not the responsibility of the referees on the game. Up to the opposition to address this with the Court Supervisor, in SA.

Reply #840163 | Report this post

Earlier this month

I agree with you all that a big planting themselves in the key and ignoring the player they're supposed to be guarding should not be allowed. Would like to see something like the NBA defensive 3 second call, perhaps.

If he was moving around tracking his man but staying in the key, then that would be different.

Reply #840176 | Report this post

Earlier this month


A) "Not a decision for the referees: It is not for referees to adjudicate whether or not a zone defence is being played. Basketball Australia does not recommend placing the responsibility for determining whether the defence is acceptable upon the referees. They have enough to do!"

B) "Don't worry about the full court
6. The rule is only concerned with playing man to man principles in the quarter court (effectively the three point line). Teams can play any defence they want in the full court.
7. Just because a player or a number of players run back to their defensive key does not make it a zone defence."

C) "Onus of Proof
1. The onus of proof lies with the offensive team, which means that they must pass the ball and move so that you can determine whether or not they are playing man to man principles.
2. If the offensive "big" stays on the weakside, their defender can legitimately stay in a “split line” position."

Reply #840182 | Report this post

Earlier this month

Yep a zone. Not good for that kid, or the others. Good for the coach only.

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