what competition you talking about ?

NBL since it was posted under that category.

You sure about that Perthworld? ! may have been referring to V8 Supercars (not having a go at you Perthworld, but at !. Cool name, though).

Future teams:

On a serious note, 15 - 16 teams. Where do you, and others, propose these additional teams to be. We have had this discussion several times but can be worth revisiting time to time.

I am absolutely sure that WA needs a second team. In Fremantle. Trouble with that is that no other West Australians agree with me!

NZ too, in Wellington, but not the same opposition there as in WA. I keep hearing that they really want it to happen??

With WA and NZ both being at extreme distances in our NBL, double headers would vastly reduce the relevant costs of playing there. And for both, they would find the local rivalry exhilarating.

Canberra? An extension of their WNBL team. Wouldn't they provide a ready made administration, facility, sponsorship/partnership base, and very importantly, a fan base. Would be a current-era first, in 2 senses;
1) 1st national basketball club to have teams of both genders.
2) 1st male team/club to join with a female team/club(now, that should get some sensitivities going!).

Newcastle, Geelong (or Western Melbourne) or Western Sydney?

Where and why do others think?

Future formats:

No idea!

Adelaide 36ers and Adelaide Lightning were for a while there run by and owned by the same people, even had similar logos etc (unsure if they still are)

so you point regarding 1st national basketball club to have teams of both genders is not true, (Melbourne Tigers also had mens and womens teams)

I agree though canberra, Wellington should be next towns to get one

think Bendigo/Ballarat/Horsham should get a team very strong base there (Whether it is a combined team plays games in all 3 areas or has a base in bendigo but is called the goldfield something...for that region)

Perth another team would be good for rivalry too

newcastle is another place that a team would good

unsure on a gold coast/sunshine coast team as they seem to fold more than prosper

would love to see the crocs back but i dont see that happening

so thats a 14 team comp which would work

26 game season (play each team twice)

top 6

5v6 3v4 elimimation series best of 3

winner of 5 v 6 plays 1st place in semi finals best of 5

winner of 3 v 4 plays 2nd place in semi finals best of 5

grand final series best of 7

why not?

see what happens

In all honesty I don't think 16 teams would work with the approach of filling bigger stadiums, higher payrolls, strong league.

Too much dilution of talent - there are plenty of Australian positions available, if you can’t make an NBL side, professional basketball won’t be your calling. Get some side change doing NBl1.

12 teams is optimal for variety and market capture. We have regional Qld, Brisbane, regional NSW, Sydney, two Victorian sides, Perth, Adelaide, Tasmania will always be the single team in the state.

That really leaves a NZ rival team and probably a third Victorian team because Vic is such a sports mad state.

I don’t think Canberra or Darwin are necessarily ideal options, they would be the alternatives to a second NZ or third Vic side.

thanks for your contribution anonymous 503

@ Grovermister, I wrote, " Would be a current-era first, in 2 senses;" you replied with,

"Adelaide 36ers and Adelaide Lightning were for a while there run by and owned by the same people, even had similar logos etc (unsure if they still are)

so you point regarding 1st national basketball club to have teams of both genders is not true, (Melbourne Tigers also had mens and womens teams)".

You must be my age! Might as well include Giants, Spectres, StKilda. "current-era"!

Having lived in western Vic, I like your idea of a "Goldfield.....?" team for western Vic. That would more than likely exclude Geelong which would be a pity (if Geelong even wants to Belong!).

Another interesting point for me is that the AFL league in that part of Vic is fairly (very) strong). Lots of good (great) athletes who can't go any further (just not good enough for the national clubs) who may become super basketballers with an NBL club in the region. A vast number of AFL players at all levels are or have been very good players. eg. Max Dorne and Greenwood.

In the town I lived, the captain of the afl team also captained their CVIBL basketball team. In fact, most of the players also played afl for the city and some, even the region. That'd be one back for basketball!

I hate the fascination with expansion to this level. Australia just does not have the population and interest to make it sustainably happen.

I think 12 teams is ideal. Everyone plays each other twice for a 22 game season. The on top of this run a couple of cup rounds like a preseason cup similar to Blitz and potentially a mid-season cup. Ideally, I would also love an asian super league kind of cup as well, but not sure the talent is there in other leagues to make it legit.

Then you run a 6 team finals, all rounds 3 game series.

10 is enough.

We've been down this road before.

I want to see Tassie and SEM settled and with an established fan base- and all existing teams achieving stability, which means at least 5 more years- before they even discuss an 11th team.

I don't see anything above maybe 12 teams at the absolute max being workable without having teams go under every couple of years. I think NZ deserves/can support a second team in Wellington. In Australia I think Canberra would be great but it would probably take something like Patty Mills being involved to give it legs, it's a risky location.

Sydney could support a true Western Sydney based team I think in a few years time if the league continues to succeed/grow. Newcastle or Central Coast risky and probably not the type of regional location the league is looking to move into.

I think WA has more Wildcats fans than basketball fans, and a 2nd team is risky. Melbourne I'm not sure needs a third team, Adelaide definitely not, NT not going to happen. QLD I like to think it's now established that the Gold Coast is not going to work. For nostalgia reasons I'd love to see Townsville back, but don't see that happening as well for the same reason as Newcastle/Central Coast. Tassie, let's see what happens with the JJs.

Once things get back to normal the idea of having an Asia-based team is maybe not completely crazy, especially if the profile of the NBL grows off the back of the Next Stars programme.

Its hard to expand without going back onto previously tried and failed propositions.

Canberra, Hunter Valley, another Sydney team, another Melbourne team without Tiger connections, Newcastle, another regional QLD team.

Until some of these places display the infrastructure, population and a budding team's budget and ability to market itself, it should not expand for the same of it alone.

Realistically, all of the "viable" addresses have already been tried. We either revisit these sites with newly learned skills, MOs, owners, foreign money, and LK, anything else it takes, or choose "unviable" addresses, watch them fail and say "told you so". and you'd be right!

IMO, the already tried ones are the ones to revisit. They ticked all the major boxes and still do.

I stated above that I liked the western Vic plan by #514 but knowing the region a little, it seems doable. The sports popularity and the closeness of most of those centres are within 1 to 3 hours away from each other. Most of the centres mentioned already have NBL1 teams and I am certain that the population of western Vic will love having a full year of level 1 and level 2 basketball.

And please let's all remember that several of the failures we constantly refer to were due in large part, to the GFC. If we had the same response to the GFC as we are experiencing with Covid, reckon the whole league might have collapsed. We are much better now than then at running sports/entertainment events and competitions, thanks largely to LK.

Re-visit some old sites, get the Foundations right, and worth another try.

Tasmania, also a previous failure, should be a good canary test.

WA and NZ have never had other sites tested so if we go that way new addresses will need to be found there.

Very surprised that western Sydney is not near the top of that population list.

There are plenty of locations you could put a team...

But as with the existing teams, it requires somebody prepared to pour the millions in.

Any second team in WA would be on a hiding to nothing.
Wildcats have dominated this league for over 30 years. Going up against that is just going to piss people off.
And if it does work??? No team wants to come to Perth and play TWO games in front of a packed hostile crowd. (And if you think Cats fans are feral, wait till the Arena is packed with only Fremantle supporters)

If we can find the pockets to sustain it, I think that around 12 teams would be optimum. But also think 10 is ok.
Any more, and I think the gap between top and bottom becomes too great

@514 (again)

Hey, just re-read your list of players from the west Vic region.

"Sobey (Warnambool), Creek (Horsham), Exum (Werribee), Delly (Maryborough), Landale spent time at Geelong Grammar, Jock Perry (Geelong), Shaun Bruce (Horsham)."

That's a great 7 man rotation right there. Sobey not at the PG and team could save money by players' families billeting the team when in their town.

If Townsville couldn't stay viable and Illawarra & Cairns have struggled at times what hope would Southland have?
Canterbury Rams haven’t even continuously fielded an NZNBL side due to financial restraints and issues so again how would they go with the much larger budgets and expenditure of the NBL and an anon above mentioned why the Saints walked away after expressing interest in joining. What makes anyone think Nick Mills position has changed?

"Geelong is comparable in Size to Cairns, and could play smaller drawing games at those centres to garner further support."

Geelong is nearly double the size of Cairns my friend,288K vs 155K.

I wouldn't be surprised if the NBL were considering another Victorian team in the West. But just call them Victoria so then all of Victorians can get behind one team in the state.

Would love to see Canberra have a team. But will the ACT support their team?

12 teams would be in the right direction. NBL has to take its time and chose what’s best for the League. Be great if Wellington could get a team. Then change New Zealand Breakers to just Auckland Breakers. It sounds better then just New Zealand.

Be great if NBL could bring back some old franchises. Crazy there's 24 defunct teams. A lot of merging on that list.

Saints, Spectres formed Magic. Then Magic, Giants formed Titans. Not sure why Peter Fiddes changed the Titans to Magic. Titans had a strong identity already from having most of the Magic players plus D-Mac.
It wrecked the whole point of merging those’s two teams. No wonder it failed.

The Sydney Kings are technically still the Supersonics and Westars because of their merger. Both those’s past Sydney teams had no success. It was a no brainer to merge them both.

The NBL made plenty of mistakes it can never fix. Bringing back the Brisbane Bullets was the best thing the NBL has done. The resurrection for the South Dragons would of been better then starting again with Phoenix. Dragons always had unfinished business. It wouldn’t of effected rivalry at all but the NBL still thinks United are all of the past Victorian teams which they are not. It’s nearly all Tigers when your at United games.

JackJumpers are okay, because they didn’t have much choice getting Devils from the AFL. Devils only had 2 good seasons in the NBL. Devils were a much better branding and easier to keep teams with just the City names like what the NBA does.

@916

That's if New Zealand has two teams. You can’t have Wellington against New Zealand. Breakers play nearly all their home games in the North Island?

I am a sucker for history, would love the Canberra Cannons back - foundation club, nation's capital and they get to dust off those 3 championship banners.

12th team? Tough one. Townsville would be great. Last team to fold, would bring back the Reptile Rumble and the FNQ road double.

Like with any option, you need the fan base and facilities. But these 2 teams would be "nice haves".

As much as I like all the points above and arguments for where teams should be and history and whatnot, I think we need to think about this differently...

Jack jumpers are getting a team in some small part because of Southern Huskies and buying a shithouse venue and redeveloping it and building hotels and shops around it so that there is a yearly revenue source outside of the basketball club itself...

So with that in mind, where could rich men decide to throw their money?

Geelong and Townsville seem like the two best situations of buying a stadium and redeveloping it but I feel like the infrastructure for shops etc would already be there and the 'yearly revenue sources' dramatically compromised.

Newcastle has a venue being redeveloped but can LK build around that with money makers?

Canberra is the one I know least about, how could the 'yearly revenue sources' be utilised there?

Western Sydney is growing rapidly but how can LK make money from it?

And finally, in case anyone is forgetting, Brisbane has the Olympics in 2032 and serious serious federal and state monies will be spent in Queensland and especially in the south east so how can the NBL benefit from this more than just by having the Bullets represented (if you watch Footy Classified on Wednesdays then you may have seen Eddie Maguire talking about how the AFL needs to get in on the action here and he made some great points but why not the NBL too)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAmpwR57onU

@ Anon, Your last para starts with; "There just aren't enough rich people in Australia who want to piss money against the wall on an NBL franchise". Hasn't LK already dealt with that with all that foreign money he's brought into the league?

Then goes on to say; "Especially new franchises in places that have already folded, some multiple times." When most of those failed franchises failed we did not have LK in place. Like it/him or not, he is the difference! Choice: pick new places that NEVER had a chance and hope like hell they work or, try to improve your efforts for the places you did think stood a chance, this time with LK at the helm?

"Add the COVID environment for the next few years and it’s unlikely the NBL expands for a while". If you're right on this last sentence then that would be a pity. Yes, there is adversity but that also represents opportunity. Everyone is affected by this pandemic, some are going to find solutions. Why not us?

I think Townsville deserves being fully researched at the worst, we are talking about a club with sell outs all the time but then the cowboys came and they dropped off with the casino taking the car parks ( I don't understand this as I work at Crown Perth and our car park gets filled by those going to Optus Stadium so what's different) and with the reputation of the Fire, basketball is far from dead but a stadium with car parking and public transport seems like the most important thing.... also Crocs got horrific scheduling with Shawn Dennis as coach, their fan base isnt just Townsville but neighbouring suburbs/towns too and if their supporters can only get to games on Saturday nights then more Saturdays need to be afforded to them (same as how Perth are predominantly Friday night games as it works for the fan Base)

Now that's what I am talking about (above). NBL was a hit for several years in Townsville. I remember that they were setting records for consecutive, sell-out crowds. But that was then and something went awry.

Proud had some suggestions. Right or wrong, they are the sorts of "fixes" that are much more credible than starting in places that never warranted any genuine consideration in the first place.

Instead of looking for new locations and trying to make the requirements fit them, setting requirements and seeing who fits those requirements makes more sense, to me.

Yes! You will find that the second-category candidates have already been tried. We should know what went wrong with those choices, by now. Can they, or any of them, be fixed now?

Like, if all it takes is to set most/more games on a Sat night and provide decent facility with car parking for Townsville to be viable again, wouldn't you choose that rather than starting in a smaller, untried market from scratch?

I would like to see a team in Port-Solaris, since i try out for this team there are most demographics of any local sports market on world, I think this Port-Solaris can join any regional league on world, doesn't make money a factor, and the interest in this area is skyhigh. Many players already visit Port-Solaris to play this game basketball, especially in areas where it's prohibit to play basketball before sunrise or after sundown. During some nights, it is allowed to play basketball after sunset or prior to sunshine, except there is the constant threat of being admonished by sleepers in a residential neighborhood, & playing in the dark.

I can't see the NBL expanding for the next couple of seasons.

Only difference I want to see for NBL22 is have top-6 for the finals series like 2009 when the NBL had 10 teams in the league. The NBL has had the same finals format since 2010. Finals is where the NBL makes most of its profit. No brainer too me if the league could bring back the quarterfinals. Could definitely see some upsets. Would be exciting.