Tankman
Earlier this year

Motivation to play; Simmons vs Ingles

I wasn't sure what to call this thread but anyway I have noticed something during the past few years about the contrasting attitudes of Joe Ingles and Ben Simmons.

Let's start with Ingles.

Born with physical gifts to play, but in terms of speed and jumping ability below your average NBA player. Spent his early prime years coming off the bench in Spain. Worked hard to eventually become a regular NBA starter but still represented his country despite it being potentially detrimental to NBA contracts. Last week he tore his ACL and will be out for the season and his contract is expiring. I assumed he might retire from the NBA and play a final season or two in the NBL, BUT NO, he said yesterday "I will only think about retirement after the 2024 gold medal ceremony". Ingles clearly LOVES playing basketball and LOVES his country.

Now Simmons was born with rare athletic gifts and no doubt he has trained hard most of his life. Simmons avoids representing his country. Simmons social media presence would indicate narcissism as most photos are contrived solo poses. Simmons is refusing to play this season because his team mates and coaching staff are meany poos.

While not an exact opposite the attitude of the two players to basketball is quite a contrast. I actually feel sorry for Ben because I believe its possible the man does not actually enjoy playing basketball. He was born into basketball, was always the best player, and a good attitude was not a requirement for success.

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Jock  
Earlier this year

The biggest difference is that Simmons is a 'biff', and he inherited that from his father. Bad attitude and there is no comparison to Ingles....

Reply #884224 | Report this post


Narendra  
Earlier this year

I love ingles but c'mon on now....."Gold medal ceremony" is a bit delusional , he might as well retire right now, cos we ain't never winning the gold...

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ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

"I love ingles but c'mon on now....."Gold medal ceremony" is a bit delusional , he might as well retire right now, cos we ain't never winning the gold..."

Yeah, people should aim for second and third best, and mediocrity. lol. There's a saying, you have to see it to be it, and he sees it, so good on him.

Oh, and by the way, how long have you held this assertion? We were within one point of making the gold medal game in 2019, and we probably would have beaten Argentina in that game if we got through.

Why is it so unthinkable we could win gold? What if another team takes out USA? What if USA just arent any good next Olympics? What if we actually beat them?

Australia has been one of the best teams in the world for the past 6 years. We have shown all the glimpses of a team that "could" upset the world. Why wouldn't Joe have belief in that?

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Isaac  
Earlier this year

I think Simmons enjoys playing basketball, he just struggles outside of his comfort zone, with fear of failure and taking public risks.

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

@ME umm Because we simply don't have the talent or the personnel to win gold? As simple as that. That's straight up arrogance from ingles to put out a statement like that with absolute certainly knowing full well where other teams stand with regards to upcoming talent...our best center is jock landale. Go figure.

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

"What if usa just aren't any good in the next olympics" - sure...the country that has the best and the biggest talent pool, infite resources, and has literally owned the damn sport since it's inception will suddenly become "not good enough" in the next oly...you sound just as delusional as him . And btw you do realise that we have it much easier compared to european teams with regards to qualifying right? Put us in europe and we'd struggle to even make it out of the qualifiers let alone medal in major tournaments..

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

Besides with all due respect to ingles , he isn't even our best player as good as he's been, take out ingles and we still have plenty of creators ready to take his place at a moments notice, take out mills and we're lamb for slaughter...

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ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

""What if usa just aren't any good in the next olympics" - sure...the country that has the best and the biggest talent pool, infite resources, and has literally owned the damn sport since it's inception will suddenly become "not good enough" in the next oly.."


This would be a fine comment to make if 2004 and 2019 didn't happen.

"our best center is jock landale. Go figure."

Our best center would be a healthy Aron Baynes. And that's beside the point, teams have medalled (nay, won gold) without having an outstanding center. Who was Argenintina's outstanding center?

And put what Jock may or may not be doing in the NBA to one side, are you going to sit there and tell me what he did at the Olympics was something to sneeze at?


"@ME umm Because we simply don't have the talent or the personnel to win gold? As simple as that. That's straight up arrogance from ingles to put out a statement like that with absolute certainly knowing full well where other teams stand with regards to upcoming talent...our best center is jock landale. Go figure."

Upcoming talent vs. an established core which also boasts upcoming talent. Joe might be shooting for the stars a bit with the 'gold' comment but there's nothing arrogant about believing one of the best teams of the past decade could win a competition. I woujldn't think twice if a Spanish or French player said it. What's with this tall poppy bullshit?

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

Baynes is sure as hell not our best center in the "long term" and jock got his ass handed out to him in the semis against usa which you conveniently seem to ignore lol and we did not face france or spain either, got an very easy draw. Again cherrrypicking stuff to suit your narratives...

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

2004 and 2019 are a sample size of 2 , my dear naive sweet little child..and besides the usa barely even care about the oly and world cup anymore. They have enough trophies and gold medals for the rest of the world to polish.

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SixersFan  
Earlier this year

"jock got his ass handed out to him in the semis against usa "

Jock had 11 points and 6 rebounds. Hardly got destroyed out there

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

Lmao, so you think scoring points is the only thing that matters, esp for a center...hahaha. go watch cartoons dude.

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ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

"2004 and 2019 are a sample size of 2 , my dear naive sweet little child..and besides the usa barely even care about the oly and world cup anymore. They have enough trophies and gold medals for the rest of the world to polish."


HAHAHA oh okay, so we've gone from 'they always win' to 'they barely even care'.... lol. But theyre DEFINITELY going to send out a superteam next time to destroy us!

Now who is cherry picking to suit narratives?


"Lmao, so you think scoring points is the only thing that matters, esp for a center...hahaha. go watch cartoons dude."

Being a condescending fuckwit doesnt make you the voice of reason on this board. No one is saying Boomers will win gold, just saying Ingles has every right to make that his goal while people like you, with nothing going for them, can go around cutting people down.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Simmons, who, dose he play ??

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

To quote the GOAT winner Bill Russell, "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

" but they're definitely gonna send out a send out a superteam to destroy us"- nope, for that to happen , they'd have to first consider us worthy. A cheetah shouldn't be expected to have to race a dog to prove that it's faster, and even assuming they indeed send out a suoerteam, it'll prolly be to take care of either of spain or france, certainly not australia.


"No one is saying the boomers will win gold............"- okay so what happens if we don't win gold in the 2024 oly, does he continue playing for all of eternity until he wins one or does he backtrack and say " mY sTaTeMeNt wAs tAkEn oUt oF cOnTeXt bY tHe mEdIa " and take the easy copout ?? Cos isn't that what his statement literally implies? That'll he only think of retirement after the 2024 gold medal ceremony?? Looks like you need to go back to school and read reading comprehension. No one's asking him not to dream, but there's a thin line of difference between dreaming and being delusional.

"Being a condescending fuckwit doesn't make you a voice of reason on this board"- it looks like you aren't used to people not telling you exactly what you want to hear. Facts don't care about feelings, special snowflake.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Narendra, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Reply #884278 | Report this post


Narendra  
Earlier this year

Well looks you like you need to go school with ME then...

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Narendra

Bad day?

Reply #884280 | Report this post


Narendra  
Earlier this year

Starved for attention?

Reply #884281 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Confirmed, Narendra is a Simmons fangirl.

Reply #884282 | Report this post


Narendra  
Earlier this year

Confirmed, anon likes to go around assuming stuff about complete strangers on the internet and is desperate for attention...

Reply #884283 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I'm pretty sure Narendra doesn’t like anything just judging by their interactions. Seems like that uncle you avoid at family gatherings.

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

And likewise i'm pretty sure anon was abandoned by his dad when he was a kid and is trying to make up for the lack of attention on internet forums..

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

This man has no dick.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

So the US all of sudden not being good come 2024 is based off of what exactly?

Their worst finish at an Olympics since nba players were allowed is 3rd and that's hardly 'not being any good’. We damn near acted like cancer was cured when we won bronze because we came short of doing so many times. Whereas to the US, there’s a reason why they consider that a disappointment.

WC is a different story as the yanks already barely care about the Olympics let alone the WC. Even look at how the last Olympic US side was treated. Everyone went from ‘oh there in trouble’ when they were missing two starters and a solid bench player for them (holiday and booker became starters after the first game at the Olympics), to ‘oh well they were expected to win all along’. So while we will try to manufacture things to suit our own agenda just understand the results of the US since 92. Winning 7 golds and 1 bronze hardly means they have some large history of not being any good. So until they do, treat them as the favourites.

To the question however, I think as Isaac said the issue with Simmons is an image one not as such a desire to play.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

If you aren't the best, why bother trying?

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

Anon #290 Thank you so much for that, finally some common sense prevails....

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ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

"okay so what happens if we don't win gold in the 2024 oly, does he continue playing for all of eternity until he wins one or does he backtrack and say " mY sTaTeMeNt wAs tAkEn oUt oF cOnTeXt bY tHe mEdIa " and take the easy copout ?"

Only a moron like yourself would take Joe's off-hand comment as some sort of set-in-stone promise as to the outcome of an olympics set in 2 years time.

"So the US all of sudden not being good come 2024 is based off of what exactly?"

People are jumping to conclusions. No one even said they wouldn't be. Just saying it's not absolutely carved in stone. They've not sent their top teams out and in doing so, have left the door open to other teams. France beat them once, and very nearly did so again. Australia had a 15 point lead on them. Just saying, it's not a fate accompli that they win gold or that they send a great team. Doesn't mean they absolutely wont. Most likely scenario is they run through undefeated. We get that.

"Their worst finish at an Olympics since nba players were allowed is 3rd and that's hardly 'not being any good'. We damn near acted like cancer was cured when we won bronze because we came short of doing so many times. Whereas to the US, there’s a reason why they consider that a disappointment."

Yeah... we get that. I don't think anyone is saying that Australia is a better basketball nation than the USA. The only thing being said, or even inferred is that, in the right situation, with the right teams, in the right tournament where conditions are a certain way, it is not entirely unforeseaable that Australia could win the gold medal in men's basketball. That doesn't mean it is the most likely scenario, or even vaguely likely. But if we look at the 2019 world cup as an example, Australia was incredibly close to being in that situation. Why would it be so unthinkable that something like that might happen again and have a slightly different result? It's not.

"Winning 7 golds and 1 bronze hardly means they have some large history of not being any good. So until they do, treat them as the favourites."

Yes, they're the favourites. Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles will tell you that.

-

Anyway, the question is whether Joe is "delusional" for his comments. He's not. And even if he were, he's a competitor. He has every right to believe and say that he can beat the best. If he doesn't believe that, there's no point being on a basketball court.

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RobT  
Earlier this year

From Narendra;
"Cos isn't that what his statement literally implies? That'll he only think of retirement after the 2024 gold medal ceremony?"

Yes! He will retire after the 2024 gold medal ceremony, who ever is the gold medal winner!

Sorry Narendra,
"Looks like you (may) need to go back to school and read reading comprehension," too!

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

" he has every right to say and believe he can beat the best , if he doesnt believe that he has no right to be on a basketball court " - You can certainly be an elite sportsman and still be realistic about your abilities and prospects...sorry but you're objectively wrong on all counts here and you lost this debate long time back but you don't want to admit the same cos of your massively overinflated ego.

" only a moron like yourself........olympics set in 2 years time" The only "morons" here are 1) Inges made a stupid statement with absolute certainty about an event that hasn't even happened yet and 2) you - his triggered fanboy who can't accept any criticism of his idol and keeps going on the defensive..

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

@robt a bit rich coming from the outback idiot who couldn't make out the difference between turkey the country and turkey the dish on a basketball forum...

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Perthworld’s cousin  
Earlier this year

Narendra has definitely never been an elite sportsperson, and therefore cannot comprehend their psychological makeup and competitive nature, but then again, the way they are going with their trolling maybe they have because this is some of the best 'dumb shot' I’ve seen on here.

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ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

"Yes! He will retire after the 2024 gold medal ceremony, who ever is the gold medal winner!"

That's the way I read it as well.

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

@perthworld's cousin - why do i need to be an elite athlete to call out a stupidly arrogant statement made by one? Politicians get criticised all the damn time for what they say by citizens, so why should sportsmen get special treatement? And besides he will get trolled universally if he doesn't back it up with his actions now, which is precisely why you should refrain from being cocky, esp in this day and age of social media where people can dig up stuff from your past and use it against you.

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Perthworld’s cousin  
Earlier this year

Trust me, if you knew the mindset, you'd know he doesn’t care if he’s wrong. He’d probably get a laugh out of it. Being able to laugh at yourself is a good sign of humility. You don’t do what he’s done without having some confidence to back yourself. You’re acting like he’s made some controversial remark that’ll ruin his life. If we all subscribed to the Jingles Method, we probably wouldn’t be losers sitting around on an Internet forum on a Sunday night.

Reply #884312 | Report this post


Narendra  
Earlier this year

@ME, ofcourse you read it that way too, cos you're the living embodiment of stupid. Congrats on announcing it to the entire forum. I should've known when you claimed that "landale has been doing great things in the nba"

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Yup  
Earlier this year

Waits for someone to break down the 2024 Aus vs USA match up...

Reply #884314 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

ME, the point about the US is more that we get so ahead of ourselves and do the whole, 'well they won't send their best, they won’t try as hard, we will send our best, we will try hard’ etc when at Olympics ( I’m not counting WC because as said the yanks care even less about that and the original post was referring to 2024 - the Olympics).

Now I’m not saying we shouldn’t hope for the best, but time and time again we get ahead of ourselves and ignore the bullshit that starts with typical crap like ‘nba = no defence whereas fiba does’ and then the yanks win again thus proving none of the bullshit that was sprouted ultimately matters (7/8 times thus far).

My point being is that they’re favourites, treat them as such, and let’s not get too ahead of ourselves as the one time we did beat was a game that didn’t mean anything other than ‘oh some nice WC preparation’.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Simmons will most likely be traded in the next few days to Brooklyn so he will start playing again. He will be in far better situation if he chooses to want to represent poor Ingles who will be rehabbing for most of that time

Reply #884316 | Report this post


Narendra  
Earlier this year

@perthworld's cousin - lol, not playing basketball for a living certainly doesnt make you a loser in life. At the end of the day, athletes are entertainers..they don't really contribute much to society apart from taxes they pay and other donations for causes. Besides if ingles wasn't 6'9, he prolly wouldn't have become a basketball player either...

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I don't think anyone said that the US weren’t the favourites. Maybe implied they weren’t invincible, but no one said they weren’t the favourites.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Ben Simmons is super-motivated to not play for Philadelphia again. So there's that.

Reply #884319 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

If Narendra didn't have a keyboard he probably wouldn’t be a troll.

Reply #884320 | Report this post


Musk  
Earlier this year

Sorry if it seems I'm just parroting Isaac here but he’s had the most common sense answer in regard to the actual original post of Simmons likes basketball but has a severe image problem of himself to the point where I wouldn’t blame someone for thinking he’s an oversized 15 year old.

Joe just loves to play no matter what, whereas Ben it appears has been convinced of if he’s going to play he has to be star or one of the stars.

If I recall correctly wasn’t there some comment about his old man pulling him from teams as a kid when the coach wouldn’t let him play the point? Which granted could be not true but if we fast forward to today, the bloke is convinced that it’s fine being a PG who won’t shoot but also just not be aggressive when it comes to scoring (mainly attacking the basket let alone shooting outside shots).

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Musk  
Earlier this year

Not to mention I think it was Jackie McMullen who said something like 'Simmons is afraid of missing so that's why he doesn’t shoot’ (this was after speaking to him and members of the 76ers. Plus just look at his career it’s like if he’s not able to just drive to the basket then offensively he’ll kinda just linger in the dunker spot and nothing really else when he’s without the ball

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

Nothing is confirmed yet regd simmons' trade., it's all speculation at this point..apparently kd wants harden to stay in brooklyn..if kyrie stops being an anti vaxxer nutjob and gets the jab or if the new york mayor lifts the mandate ( both highly unlikely to happen), then the trade talks would be off as quickly as they started..

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Narendra  
Earlier this year

And if anon#320 didn't have anonymity, he prolly wouldn't have the balls to talk to me. Atleast i'm using my real name and not hiding behind anonymity like a coward.

Reply #884324 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

That small dick energy.

Reply #884325 | Report this post


Narendra  
Earlier this year

Would rather have small dick energy over pussy energy...

Reply #884326 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Is it still school holidays?

Reply #884327 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Narendra I was talking about Simmons, but good to know

Reply #884328 | Report this post


John  
Earlier this year

Hi Narendra, my name is John. Do I have the balls?

Reply #884329 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Yep, definitely school holidays.

Reply #884330 | Report this post


Narendra  
Earlier this year

How am i supposed to know about your anatomy john? Assuming that's even your real name....

Reply #884331 | Report this post


Tankman  
Earlier this year

Well this discussion quickly broke down. My interpretation of Joe's comments were whichever team is on the podium, and I'll do everything I can to make it Australia. On Simmons I don't know the guy and am trying not to judge him, but there is a possibility the life lessons he was taught growing up have not served him well in the NBA.

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UseTaHoop  
Earlier this year

Musk (321)

Having his Dad threaten to pull him out of teams if he didn't play point guard is a bit extreme.

BUT tall-for-age juniors usually get pigeonholed as the bigs in their team, and get less development in ball handling and other guard skills, thereby being less well-rounded players. Not sure how he managed to not develop a confident outside shot though, so his junior development wasn’t as well-rounded as it could have been.

A PF-sized point guard with all the skills of a PG is a rare and valuable commodity. This was his best chance of a successful NBA career, so trying to develop him this way as a junior was a great idea. He just needed to develop confidence as an outside shooter.

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WookieE  
Earlier this year

Wow... I know I've been away a long time, but people still wonder why there aren't more regular posters when threads deteriorate like this?

1005 agree with Tankman... Someone really read too much into Joe's comments other than using that as motivation to get Australia the best result possible by aiming for the best result possible... I don't get how, especially after Patty and the GVO movement this last Olympics, people can't grasp that...

As for Simmons, he's just a spoiled brat that was highly talented from a young age and never had to work for something as he was always put in the best possible situations to succeed on a personal level, not really a team level... He went places where he could personally shine and then move on without having to work hard...

Compare him to players like Delly, Patty, Joe and Baynes. All of them didn't have smoke blown up them, they've had to work their arses off to get where they are/have been, and it's paid off...

The faults in his character have been exposed over the years, it's not just his fault, as he can choose to change and work on it, but he's a product of his environment just as much... Whoever has been advising him the last few years I hope has cashed in while they can...

Reply #884356 | Report this post


rjd  
Earlier this year

Nerenda is:
A) a troll,
B) just trying to save face after misinterpreting a standard ambitious statement by an athlete, or
C) an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect

Reply #884358 | Report this post


EssenX  
Earlier this year

It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that Ingles statement is aspirational. But it's also inspirational to his teammates and the broader basketball community that Australia isn't done with just bronze.

As for the contrast with Simmons? It couldn't be starker. But Simmons is unique, not just in comparison to Ingles, but most Australians who are in or were in the NBA. Whether that be Longley, Bogut or Mills. Simmons is unAustralian and his citizenship should be renounced. I say that as a New Zealander.

Reply #884367 | Report this post


RobT  
Earlier this year

You're just going to recruit him for the Tall Blacks.

No way. We'll keep the grumpy bastard, role him out for big events, claim him as one of ours when he plays/behaves well and disown him otherwise.

Reply #884375 | Report this post


Narendra  
Earlier this year

@rjd

a standard ambitious statement would've been something along the lines of " we'll try our best to get our hands on that elusive gold" and not " i'll think of retirement only after the god medal ceremony", that statement reeks of unfounded arrogance.

A) rdj does not understand the difference between ambition and arrogance and needs tohave a dictionary thrown at his ignorant ass and
B) he's an imbecile masquerading as intelligent.

Reply #884386 | Report this post


Narendra  
Earlier this year

Gold*

Reply #884388 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Ingles has had to scrap to get where he is. Apart from being relatively tall, he doesn't have the natural, God-given gifts that you typically see with high level bballers (speed, athleticism, those short of things). He was never a certainty to make the NBA, and worked his way there through stints Australia and Europe.

Simmons has basically had everything handed to him, starting with having a father who played and coached professionally (nothing against Dave, he seemed to have that chip on his shoulder to prove he belonged coming from the Bronx). Basically Simmons has been treated like a spoiled child by the team around him, and they are probably the biggest issue.

Simmons just seems to be pulled in all directions by all these influences. He’s even had his choice as coach, all friends of the family, up until Doc, who appears to be the first person to challenge him (along with Embiid), but he’s just been mollycoddled for far too long. And I don’t think a change in team is going to be any different (unless it’s a bottom feeder who’ll wait on him hand and foot like the desperate one in the partnership).

Reply #884410 | Report this post




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