Weedy Slug
Two years ago

BOOMERS 2023 WC ?

The annual who makes the WC team thread.

2023 WC
25th August - 10th September

10 months to go....




Who you got?

Options…

PG
6'2 Mccarron
6’3 Sobey
6’4 Dellevedova
6’5 Mcdowell-White
6’6 Exum
6’8 Giddey

SG
6’0 Mills
6’0 Cotton
6’2 Vasiljevic
6’4 Proctor
6’4 Goulding
6’7 Daniels

SF
6’5 Green
6’5 Thybulle
6’5 Creek
6’7 Broekhoff
6’7 Travers
6’8 Ingles

PF
6’7 White
6’8 Mcveigh
6’8 Cooks
6’9 Kay
6’9 Pinder
6’10 Simmons

C
6’10 Magnay
6’10 Baynes
6’11 Landale
6’11 Reath
6’11 Humphries
7’0 Maker

Topic #50488 | Report this topic


a5ian nbl fan  
Two years ago

If everyone buys ins

PG Giddey / McCarron
SG Mills / Daniels / Proctor
SF Thybulle / Ingles
PF Simmons / White / Cooks
C Landale / Baynes

Reply #900953 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Mccarron over Exum and Delly, interesting...
Green, nba player cut for college kid proctor.

Reply #900954 | Report this post


a5ian nbl fan  
Two years ago

angus brandt over issac or magnay

Reply #900955 | Report this post


a5ian nbl fan  
Two years ago

Proctor and green flip a coin. McCarron over delly it is what it is ahha

Reply #900956 | Report this post


Aussie  
Two years ago

Giddey
Mills
Baynes
Landale
Ingles

Daniels
Exum
Reath
Kay
Thybulle

Green
Cooks

Reply #900958 | Report this post


Aussie  
Two years ago

Weedy Slug, I'm curious to get your thoughts on Alex Toohey and Rory Hawke.

I see Toohey as an Ingles type.
Good ball handler, passer, rebounder, defender. The 3 ball is not at Ingles level yet but he shot well from there later in the season for the COE.
Has interest from Duke, Florida, St Mary's etc.

I see Hawke as a Sobey type.
Similar height, fairly good handles, slasher, athletic, can hit the 3.
Hawke may end up with a more solid frame.

Both have a very good chance of being future Boomers.

Do you think I have assessed them reasonably accurately?

Reply #900965 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Clearly the #2 and #3 2004 born players behind proctor.

Think it's too early to say if they will become long term boomers.
Need to see more of them in college or nbl first.
I don’t see Toohey as an ingles type though.
Certainly similarities between Hawke and Sobey, will have bigger frame height, less explosive, slightly less athleticism.

Reply #900966 | Report this post


KET  
Two years ago

We are really persisting with hope of Simmons aren't we.

Bit of a lack of shooting in the future...

PG Giddey/Exum
SG Mills/Daniels/Vasiljevic
SF Ingles/Thybulle
PF Simmons/Kay/Cooks
C Landale/Reath

I’d have Green as 13th man.
DJ is in for shooting.

Is Exum really a PG?

Reply #900969 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Two years ago

Cooks is the first guy picked from the NBL.

Green was lose his spot, in Tokyo, the 12th man was a choice between Giddy OR Green, and Green won the spot.

Likewise, unless he has a killer year and moves up the rotation, it may prevent Daniels getting in the 12. But let's be optimistic.

As sad as it is to say, I can't say Ingles is a given, no one knows how his body will pull up after his injury. I will posit this as a hypothetical we won't see Ingles.

Exum isn't a PG at this level, too turnover prone, and you'll take it out of Mills being the secondary handler for a long tournament. WC is a longer than tournament than the Olympics.

PG: Giddey, McCarron
SG: Mills, Daniels
SF: Thybulle, Green, Exum
PF: Kay, Cooks
C: Baynes, Landale, Reath

Reply #900971 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Tough decisions to make. Really difficult.


For me, atm I've got (but no doubt will change)

Giddey-Exum
Mills-Cotton
Ingles-Green-Daniels
Simmons-Cooks
Landale-Baynes-Maker

Reserves
Dellevedova (Exum seems to have gone up a notch)
Proctor (the only real high quality aus sg prospect with size and skills)
Thybulle (hoping Daniels/green cover on d) (cotton scoring, pressure off mills)
Kay (cooks playing too good right now)
Reath (maker was excellent in asia cup)


Super tough calls imo.
Thybulle vs cotton
Kay v cooks


All subject to change based on this seasons performances.

Reply #900976 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Two years ago

"PG
6'2 Mccarron
6'3 Sobey
6’4 Dellevedova
6’5 Mcdowell-White
6’6 Exum
6’8 Giddey

SG
6’0 Mills
6’0 Cotton
6’2 Vasiljevic
6’4 Proctor
6’4 Goulding
6’7 Daniels

SF
6’5 Green
6’5 Thybulle
6’5 Creek
6’7 Broekhoff
6’7 Travers
6’8 Ingles

PF
6’7 White
6’8 Mcveigh
6’8 Cooks
6’9 Kay
6’9 Pinder
6’10 Simmons

C
6’10 Magnay
6’10 Baynes
6’11 Landale
6’11 Reath
6’11 Humphries
7’0 Maker

"

Giddey
Exum

Mills
Daniels

Ingles
Thybulle

Simmons
Kay

Baynes
Landale

Cooks

Last spot is tough but I am looking towards a point guard or a shooter. You could go either McDowell-White, Broekhoff or Vaselijivic here.

As for the Baynes inclusion I still think he's the best big man for the job until someone proves different. Humphries would knock on that door but I am yet to see any reason to lock him in.

Green misses out because he hasn't shown anything.

Reply #900985 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Not sure why so many doubt greens ability, think he might change some opinions this season.

Reply #900986 | Report this post


LV  
Two years ago

Giddey, Mills, Thybulle, Simmons, Ingles Landale, Exum should be locks if they make themselves available. With Baynes potentially likewise depending on his season.

The other 4 or 5 spots are up for grabs, with Delly, CG, and Kay and in the mix due to their experience in the team but plenty of competition from Green, Cooks, White, McCarron and others.

Reply #900988 | Report this post


Crazy8  
Two years ago

McCarron suddenly a stud in everyone's mind. Not many people had anything nice to say about him last year

Reply #900989 | Report this post


KWhite_Rulez  
Two years ago

PG: Giddey, Exum, Delly
SG: Mills, Daniels
SF: Ingles, Thybulle, Green
PF: Kay, Cooks
C: Landale, Baynes

R: Cotton (if no Thybulle and citizenship), Proctor, McDW, Creek, Pinder, Maker

Simmons ain't gonna play.

Reply #900990 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Two years ago

Yeah I am not sure why the sudden hero worship of McCarron. Granted he's looked better of late than usual but there's been nothing I've seen that suggests he can play in the Olympics. He's probably one of the better Aussie point guard prospects in the NBL but he sits behind WMW for em

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KET  
Two years ago

Boomers lack the shooting and more then ever I feel like Vasiljevic can play that Goulding role of come off the bench and just knock it down.

Here's a more pessimistic take:

I don’t know west we will see from Daniels or Proctor - maybe a bit too young just yet?

Hawke and Toohey definitely too young.

Simmons unlikely scenario IMO, Thybulle might not be a certainty? Baynes yet to see how he recovers, Humphries much the same in a way given perpetual injury.

Maybe Cotton gets his citizenship though.

PG: Giddey, Cotton
SG: Mills, Daniels, Vasiljevic
SF: Ingles, Exum, Green
PF: Kay, Cooks
C: Landale, Reath

That team will be a bit of out of position weirdness but that’s what happens when you have guys like Green and Exum.

Reply #901000 | Report this post


LV  
Two years ago

McCarron is like Nick Kay. Not flashy but plays a role. We saw the best of him in United 20/21 and we'll see more this year I'm tipping

It depends where they use Exum but I would think it wise to select another pass first ball handler to support Giddey and Exum. I think Delly most likely but McCarron in the mix.

Reply #901001 | Report this post


Frisbee14  
Two years ago

Need to keep the culture of recent bronze so next generation can keep continuing the legacy to future tournaments.
So Mills, Delly, Baynes, Exum and Ingles in. Only smallest of question marks for Ingles how he goes this season returning from injury and his role with Bucks. Athleticism has never been his strength so should be ok.
Really can't give the tiniest chance of Simmons suiting up no matter how much he can say he's changed.
Giddey, Kay and Landale should be locks for the team. White or Cooks also, right age and mindset, might have to choose between them.
On the fence a little with Cotton, best player in NBL, him and Mills can shoot lights out and Giddey has size to matchup on bigger guard in backcourt. Just doesn't sit right with him and Thybulle as our "imports". Plus Cotton could be taking someone like Vasiljevics spot.
Green, Dyson and McDowell-White should be part of the new blood coming through, would take them ahead of Sobey or Goulding at this stage. Travers as another option.
Big no to Humphries, shouldn't even be starting for Melbourne. Probably be injured by then anyway. Reath should be pretty confident in making team.
But final selections should come down to camps and friendlies to see what the best chemistry is for the final team. Gone are the years if you had or were playing NBA that you were automatically selected.

Reply #901002 | Report this post


Anon  
Two years ago

PG: Giddey, Exum,
SG: Mills, Daniels, DJ
SF: Ingles, Thybulle, Green
PF: Simmons, Cooks
C: Landale, Baynes

I think you only need 2 PG. Ingles and Simmons can and will slide down into the Point.
Cooks may be an interesting one. Personally I'd love to see White in that spot. But the other point is if he continues to ball he may just end up in the NBA by seasons end and won't make himself available for WC.
Baynes should be ok for WC. Olympics might just be too far.
Something is going on with cottons citizenship, things just don't add up for it to be taking this long.

Reply #901003 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

"McCarron is like Nick Kay."

100%. Remember the ridicule there used to be for the suggestion of Nick Kay in the full-time Boomers? It was just a lack of understanding of the valuable role he could play.

I love Mitch as a player - he should have been in ahead of Sobey the past couple of tournaments IMO because his skillset is more transferable to international play - but to make himself a really good chance he needs to show he can hit the three consistently this season.

Reply #901004 | Report this post


Patty"TheGOAT"Mills  
Two years ago

McCarron is a Good Player, but his Position (D+Handler) doesn't fit the Boomers Timeline.

Reply #901008 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

Landale / Baynes
Kay / Cooks / White
Ingles / Thybulle
Exum / Green / Vasiljevic
Mills / Giddey

Reply #901011 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

I don't think Vasiljevic will do that well at a WC, won’t get the space and a liability everywhere else.



15 favourites appear to be

Giddey - Exum - Mccarron
Mills - Daniels - Vasiljevic
Ingles - Thybulle - Green
Cooks - Kay - Simmons
Landale - Baynes - Reath


Dellevedova, Cotton, White and Maker not in the mix by many it seems

Reply #901012 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

DJ would be there as a knock-down shooter in a time of need.

Reply #901013 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two years ago

I's a nice problem when quality players are missing out.
Other than the 5 spot we're looking pretty tough.

Reply #901015 | Report this post


hoopie  
Two years ago

I see Daniels and Green as investments for the future, so I'd include them in the squad.

I like McCarron because he’s a 'glue man’, brings everyone together and fits into whatever role is needed, plus he’s tough.

Dejan will give up more points than he’ll produce until his defence improves - a bit like a young Goulding. For that reason, I think Cotton is a must if available, which means we’d have to lose Thybulle.

I’d bring in Jack White for his versatility and energy, and as another investment for the future; otherwise, Broekhoff if he regains fitness and shooting form.

Forget Simmons. Won’t happen, and could bring uncertainty and instability into the culture.

Giddey - Delly - McCarron
Mills - Cotton - Daniels
Ingles - Green - Exum
Kay - Cooks - White/Broekhoff
Baynes - Landale - Reath/Maker

Reply #901017 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Broekhoff pf, dreamin...

Reply #901019 | Report this post


Cram  
Two years ago

I think there's up to 20 guys with a genuine chance still of making the team. We've got a few super talented kids that need to prove themselves a bit more, but also a few former locks that need to show that they still deserve a spot. Then you have guys who would be considered long shots now that could have a breakout season.

Too hard, not gonna try :)

Reply #901020 | Report this post


hoopie  
Two years ago

I agree, Weedy, but I expected some push-back if I slotted White into the SF spot for an either/or.

Broekhoff at SF would gives us better shooting than White at PF, but if we already had enough shooters in the squad then we could take White instead of Broekhoff.


Which leads to the question - how many reliable 2- and 3-point shooters should we have in the squad as a minimum? Ideally you'd want athletes who could also shoot well, rather than pure shooters who might struggle to defend, but how many of those do we have? I would say only Mills, possibly Ingles, and Cotton if selected; otherwise, most of the others would be 'useful’ rather than reliable.

How many athletic shooters would a France or Spain or Serbia field, for comparison with similar teams?

Reply #901021 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Broekhoff is cooked mate, he ain't getting back into WC or olympic boomers, asia only.
He hasn’t shot the ball well since leaving Dallas.

Reply #901022 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Stock

Up
Exum
Cotton
Green
Giddey
Daniels
Creek
Cooks
Simmons
Kay
Pinder
Landale
Reath
Maker

Down
Mills
Mccarron
Vasiljevic
Proctor
Mcdowell-white
Sobey
Goulding
Thybulle
Broekhoff
Travers
Mcveigh
Ingles
White
Humphries
Baynes

Reply #904883 | Report this post


Cram  
Two years ago

Very encouraging to see Green playing well. He really seems like he'll be our number one three and D guy. Exum playing well is huge too, as I think he's going to be an important bridge guy between our past and future Boomers teams. Landale has obviously cemented himself as our number one big.

Even Delly has looked ok when he gets some action.

Daniels has shown some good early signs, and should at least be a good option for development as a defensive/hustle player. The offense is still a work in progress, but if he can at least give that energy, combined with Green keeping up his form, it could mean we can have a genuine choice between Cotton and Thybule. I by no means want to count out Matisse, but he has struggled early and competition in camp could be intense which is a good thing.

Not worried about Patty and Joe at the moment. They'll be ready.

Reply #904888 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Such a tough call atm between cotton and Thybulle.
We need more scorers desperately and Can Green and Daniels and even Simmons cover Thybulles elite D?

Reply #904889 | Report this post


Cram  
Two years ago

Ideally you'd get them all in to the final camp and let them battle.

Giddey, Exum, Delly, Daniels, Mills, Cotton, Thybulle, Green, Ingles, Cooks, Kay, Simmons, Baynes, Reath, Landale, White, Maker, McCarron, Sobey, DJ.

If all fit and available that would be a great 20 for camp with I think some really hard final cuts.



Reply #904894 | Report this post


Pasadena 72  
Two years ago

Would they take 20 to Vegas for their final camp? I expect that would only be the 15 they expect are a genuine chance to make the group.

Reply #904896 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

24 I think first camp, second camp 18, then final 12.

Reply #904898 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Two years ago

Mccaron got carved by WMW last game and Sobey has been horrible. Hopefully how you are playing and not reputation comes into it, certainly for nbl guys. Sobey was average at Olympic as well.

Reply #904899 | Report this post


Cram  
Two years ago

"24 I think first camp, second camp 18, then final 12."

Ah cool.

As long as they continue to show they've learned from the 2019 debacle and keep the last 3 cuts around the team right up until the tournament starts. The last 3 guys cut will be harsh whoever they are.

Reply #904901 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Think the 24 will be

Giddey - Exum - Dellevedova - Mccarron - Mcdowellwhite
Mills - Cotton - Daniels - Goulding - Vasiljevic - Proctor
Ingles - Thybulle - Green - White - Creek
Simmons - Kay - Cooks - Pinder
Landale - Reath - Maker - Baynes

Reply #904902 | Report this post


Jonno  
Two years ago

I think to some degree if everyone is available, the team somewhat picks its self

Pretty similar to the bronze medal team only really replacing Goulding, Sobey, Reath for Giddey, Daniels, Simmons.

Landale/Baynes
Simmons/Kay
Green/Thybulle/Ingles
Mills/Exum
Giddey/Daniels/Delly

You could make arguments for leaving out Delly and/or Baynes for guys like Reath, Jack White, Cooks, Proctor, Maker, McDowell-White, Vasiljevic

But to me the other 10 guys should be absolute locks, if they are available.

Reply #904903 | Report this post


Cram  
Two years ago

Nah I could see Reath, Cooks and Cotton would be very harsh cuts there. Not saying that it would be wrong, but those guys are a real chance of making the final 12

Reply #904905 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Agree with cram.

Reply #904906 | Report this post


Jonno  
Two years ago

For me its simple, if Thybulle is available then Cotton misses out, Thybulle was brilliant at the Olympics and is a complete lock. I cant see a guy who was elevated to the starting 5 for the medal game and preformed brilliantly, since been credited as one of the differences of the medal team to the previous teams by Goorj in his mid 20s not getting picked.

Yes you can argue for Cooks and/or Reath over Delly and/or Baynes.

IMO the first 10 are locks, but yes the last 2 spots could go in a number of directions.

Reply #904908 | Report this post


Gold Vibes Only  
Two years ago

Absolutely Jonno. If Thybulle is available then there is no decision to even be made, the spot is Matisse's.

Reply #904909 | Report this post


Pasadena 72  
Two years ago

Ok so 18 to Vegas for the August camp? When is the camp with 24?

Reply #904910 | Report this post


Cram  
Two years ago

The more I think about it, the more I think there's 17 guys with a legit shot

Giddey, Exum, Delly, Daniels, Mills, Cotton, Thybulle, Green, Ingles, Cooks, Kay, Simmons, Baynes, Reath, Landale, White, Maker.

I guess the others to make up the 24 man squad could be the following, with one making the 18 man squad.
Sobey, Vasiljevic, McCarron, WMW, Humphries, Creek, Goulding.

If you squint and/or we get injuries, there could be a situation where one of those 7 make the final 12, but I couldn't see it being likely.

Reply #904915 | Report this post


Gold Vibes Only  
Two years ago

Cram, Cotton still isn't an Australian citizen. Until that day arrives, it's kind of pointless placing him in a hypothetical squad. Are we still holding out hope that Irving will play for us as well? I mean, it's been 5 years since he last represented Team USA and the FIBA rule book clearly states that for players over the age of 17 if both federations agree then a player can change their allegiance. Try and keep it real, for now.

Reply #904918 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

We are just expecting mills to avg over 20+ points forever?

Patty needs more help, if not cotton, green, Exum or Goulding is probably getting in as backup sgs but I don't think they would average half the points cotton could potentially put up.

Ingles is no certainty anymore either, and at 36y.o also we need to see him play and stay healthy. That’s another avg 12 or so points wiped from the scoreboard if NA.

Reply #904919 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Two years ago

2002 and losing to NZ still plays on the mind of BA. Their succession plan is orderly, and isn't about picking an all-star 12.

With the young talent coming on board (Giddey, Green, Daniels, Proctor), I wouldn't be surprised to see them use 2023 to experiment for 2024.

PG is now Giddey's now question.

Green beasting recently will not only see him keep his spot, but potentially push Mills to the bench (which will be good for his age).

To me this will likely mean a Giddey/Mills backcourt in 2023, with the understanding Green will start in 2024.

If that's the case, what will be the role of Daniels and Proctor? Will they move Green to SF? If so, there is only one spot for the 2 of them at best

So last tournament's back court

Delly, Sobey
Mills, Green, Goulding

Sobey will be replaced by Giddey, no doubt. A raft looking to place Goudling, and I can't see that place going to Cotton

Last tournament front court;
Ingles, Exum, Thybulle
Kay, Reath
Baynes, Landale

Who is out? I have concerns around Ingles. An ACL injury at his age, and we haven't seen him play yet. Cooks would be the first one in, but it will be as a big. if that's the case, I can't see Exum being sacked then....

2002 in mind....



Reply #904920 | Report this post


Pablo Escobar  
Two years ago

Mills will not be happy coming off the bench.

Reply #904921 | Report this post


Cram  
Two years ago

"Cram, Cotton still isn't an Australian citizen. Until that day arrives, it's kind of pointless placing him in a hypothetical squad"

My guess is he'll get his citizenship on Australia Day (or the replacement date if his local council is one of those that doesnt do Aus Day). I'd be very surprised if he's not Australian by March at the latest.

Reply #904922 | Report this post


Gold Vibes Only  
Two years ago

Weedy Slug, the succession plan for Patty (who will be at 2023 World Cup and 2024 Olympics) isn't Bryce Cotton, who will be 31yo by next year's World Cup. For those paying close attention to the NBA, NCAA and Europe right now, I think it's safe to say Green, Giddey, Daniels, Exum and Proctor would all play ahead of Cotton in the national team setting alongside Patty in any major tournament situations in the near future. Cotton and Mills wouldn't be able to share the floor together at that level of FIBA competition - the height deficiency at the defensive end would simply be too significant. And if Mills isnt playing 28-30mins per game in a 6-game Olympic tournament then there will be questions asked of Goorjian. The Cotton talk becomes somewhat irrelevant with Thybulle in the picture. Casual fans may think he's not playing well at the 76ers which is simply untrue. Doc Rivers' isolation heavy offence involves the ball continually being stuck in the hands of Embiid and Harden, which is not the way the Boomers team will play. Thybulle is picked ahead of Cotton 100 times out of 100. The Sixers record in games where Thybulle is used in a starting or rotation minutes role gives a good indication that he's not in any way a negative impact on the team, even without him being able to slash or do anything off ball other than stand in a corner or on the block because that's the way his team is designed to operate.

Reply #904924 | Report this post


SP  
Two years ago

Nobody is going to replace Mills' point production immediately but I think Giddey and Green combined could do this eventually. Neither of them is the type of shot creator Mills is but they have shown scoring effectiveness in their own way in the NBA. Then there's Daniels who has significant upside too - I am not too worried about the Boomers' future ability to score.

Reply #904925 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Two years ago

"Mills will not be happy coming off the bench."

Why would you say that?

He has spent his entire professional career coming of the bench, for the right reasons. The teams culture is also about keeping egos at the door.

He isn't that young, and him defending players for 32+ minutes isn't conducive to a best team outcome.

16-20 minutes as a combo guard coming off the bench with less defensive responsibilities can easily prolong his career. Giddey and Green have both turned 22 in the last 6 weeks, let them chase guards for 30+ minutes

Reply #904927 | Report this post


Doita  
Two years ago

I'm really unsure as to why nobody has mentioned Taran Armstrong for a tournament a cpl years away. If his shot improves he will be a boomers stalwart in a few years time

Reply #904928 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Two years ago

"nobody has mentioned Taran Armstrong for a tournament a cpl years away."

Who is he beating out?

Delly, or Green/Daniels/Proctor/Exum?

Reply #904930 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Armstrong and proctor will be in after 2024.

Reply #904933 | Report this post


Doita  
Two years ago

Potentially none of them. But if we're talking about Proctor, see no reason why you wouldn’t mention Armstrong. If anything TA resume is stronger that Proctor right now.

The thing that will hurt Armstrong more than anything is his skill set is made redundant with some of our existing guys. But if his shot develops, that could be the thing that separates him. It’s a super small sample but his percentages from 3 are good so far this season.

Reply #904934 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Two years ago

Rocco Zikarsky is more of a hail mary in 2024, than anyone else.

He will barely be younger than when Longley/Bradtke/Vlahhov were taken to Seoul.

Reply #904937 | Report this post


Yup  
Two years ago

Last Olympics Exum played more minutes at pg than Delly did...

Thybulle was 4th in minutes, the Thybulle/Cotton debate is ridiculous…

Reply #904951 | Report this post


Cram  
Two years ago

Its not about thybulle vs Cotton, it's about team make up, availability and fit.

Reply #904953 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Two years ago

"2002 and losing to NZ still plays on the mind of BA. Their succession plan is orderly, and isn't about picking an all-star 12.

With the young talent coming on board (Giddey, Green, Daniels, Proctor), I wouldn't be surprised to see them use 2023 to experiment for 2024."

While I accept the sentiment I dont think you use a major tournament to experiment. The transition is already in effect with Giddey, Green and Proctor all having directly touched the Boomers culture. Proctor is probably a long shot to make the team in 2024 given the other options at his position.

"Green beasting recently will not only see him keep his spot, but potentially push Mills to the bench (which will be good for his age)."

I dont think we are there yet. Josh Green has looked very good but starting shooting guard belongs to Patty Mills until he proves otherwise. People were saying the same about Mills last year, not being up to the scoring anymore, and he scored what, 43 in a medal game? Lets not go away from what works.

"Who is out? I have concerns around Ingles. An ACL injury at his age, and we haven't seen him play yet. Cooks would be the first one in, but it will be as a big. if that's the case, I can't see Exum being sacked then....

2002 in mind...."

How deeply in mind should it really be? In 2000-2002 it was a complete clean of shop. We have Landale, Exum, Giddey, Green, Simmons, White, Kay, Thybulle, Reath, and more all ready to take the next step.

"16-20 minutes as a combo guard coming off the bench with less defensive responsibilities can easily prolong his career. Giddey and Green have both turned 22 in the last 6 weeks, let them chase guards for 30+ minutes"

Prolong his career for what exactly? We all know that its basically Paris then curtains for the old guard of Boomers.

"Rocco Zikarsky is more of a hail mary in 2024, than anyone else.

He will barely be younger than when Longley/Bradtke/Vlahhov were taken to Seoul."

He's an interesting prospect. In 2 years he will be 17-18 and some kids can be quite ready at that age. Certainly wouldn't start but could potentially contribute. I believe Bogut was around same age as well?

"Its not about thybulle vs Cotton, it's about team make up, availability and fit."

Cotton has a whole team built around him in the NBL. I doubt the Boomers will do the same. In the Boomers he is little more than a spot up shooter. Not sure we need more of that with Green already in the team. The NBL has a way of making players look better than they are.

Reply #904954 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

Agree with Cram, have to pick it on fit. Someone mentioned the other day that if Mills is out for some reason, Cotton comes in (assuming naturalised). If Mills is in, Thybulle plays. I agree with that.

Reply #904955 | Report this post


Gold Vibes Only  
Two years ago

In what world does anybody think Cotton just replaces Mills? If Mills is out then Giddey, Exum, Daniels all get more ball in their hands and we bring in a pure shooter like CG or Vasiljevic - who are both likely to miss a full strength 12, or even a combo guard like McDowell-White. Goorjian is the coach, he loves Thybulle and rightly so. The talk of Cotton vs Thybulle in any scenario and Matisse missing out is simply ridiculous.

Reply #904961 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Not replace, backup.
If goorj is the coach, 100% will be Thybulle over cotton. If mills struggles at WC, we could see a switch.

Atm, Fortunately we have some coverage for Thybulle. Daniels/Green
We have no one to backup an aging mills. Goulding in decline and Vasiljevic is untested + small and below par defender., proctor sometime away..., king another possible also in the future unable to play alongside Thybulle because of citizenship post 16y.o. No other sgs beyond that in the pipeline.

Reply #904962 | Report this post


Gold Vibes Only  
Two years ago

Lol how can he back him up if Mills isn't there? Without Patty, our structure changes, we don’t just throw Cotton in and give him the keys to be Patty. The shooting guard doesn’t have to be the leading scorer on the team.

The take on Vasiljevic is very amusing "untested + small and below par defender". What exactly do people think Cotton is at this level of competition? Pretty much all of the above.

Reply #904963 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Not rocket science mate,

Mills starting sg, Cotton backup sg.... Both great off the dribble.

If ya wanna go more defensively, then green or Daniels are perimeter options.

Reply #904964 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

No one is saying you throw the keys to Cotton, but he brings a similar skillset to Mills that is important to the team. If you don't have Mills or Cotton the team will be out of balance.

Reply #904965 | Report this post


hoopie  
Two years ago

Cotton is much quicker and more agile in creating his own and others' shots, whereas Vasiljevic would feast on poor defenders but would need to be set up more against good ones

Reply #904966 | Report this post


Gold Vibes Only  
Two years ago

No worries, we shall come back to this moment in time when the World Cup team is announced. Assuming Cotton even receives citizenship, a few of you firmly believe that he gets picked over Thybulle, no matter what. He will either be back up to Mills or play in the absence of Mills and take on a similar role so the team isn't "out of balance". Lol. Nobody backing down from this?

Reply #904967 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Two years ago

"While I accept the sentiment I dont think you use a major tournament to experiment. The transition is already in effect with Giddey, Green and Proctor all having directly touched the Boomers culture."

I agree, but the tournament, i.e. Toyko, saw Giddey in training camp only and Green get 2 minutes per game.

if I were to estimate a transition, and the most pressing one is to replace Delly with Giddey, that will be THE move in 2023. I don't believe it will be Giddey and Green at the same time, but that said, Green could be pressing for a start..

As I said, it is more likely 2023 will be Green getting more than 2 mpg off the bench, with him likely to hit his prime in 2024.

...

"Proctor is probably a long shot to make the team in 2024 given the other options at his position."

I agree, he would be the 2 mpg player in my 2024 roster, and he's there because I cannot in good faith put Ingles in a 2024 roster without having see him play.

...

""Green beasting recently will not only see him keep his spot, but potentially push Mills to the bench (which will be good for his age)."

I dont think we are there yet. Josh Green has looked very good but starting shooting guard belongs to Patty Mills until he proves otherwise. "

36 years of age catches up with you pretty quickly, compared to a 23 year old who is now pushing for a starting spot on the Mavs.


It is a mistake to think "Mills to the bench" is punishment, rather than "let's preserve a 36 year old from chasing the opposing teams guards for 30 minutes per game."

People were saying the same about Mills last year, not being up to the scoring anymore, and he scored what, 43 in a medal game? Lets not go away from what works."

.. yeah, he still gets to start in 2023....

Reply #904970 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Two years ago

"How deeply in mind should it really be? In 2000-2002 it was a complete clean of shop. We have Landale, Exum, Giddey, Green, Simmons, White, Kay, Thybulle, Reath, and more all ready to take the next step."

We lost Gaze, Longley, Bradtke and Vlahov... 4 players, and Lognley didn't feature much after 1992. Maher cracked spat is dummy a bit... but that's if we're talking sheer numbers... Ricky Grace and Scott Fisher ??

We still had Heal, we had Ronaldson return in 2004, we had MacKinnon, we had Anstey, we had Darren Smith, Paul Rogers, we had a plethora of boomers still continue after 2000... it was just the scale of the hole.

We are looking at the same scale... Mills, Delly, Baynes, Ingles. In other words the same size hole....

Everyone said post 200 as poorly managed... and it was really only 3 players who played every tournament since 1998.

So to manage it.....


"Prolong his (Mills) career for what exactly? We all know that its basically Paris then curtains for the old guard of Boomers."

Prolong it so we aren't burning out a 36 year old undersized SG....

I.e. he can start in 2023 at age 35 and not get burnt out as Green plays 18+ minutes from the bench, and then the same guy turning 36 in Paris, pays 16-20 minutes as a combo guard off the bench....

I'm not talking abut extending his career beyond 2023.. I'm talking abut optimising his 2023 and 2024 contributions, AS WELL AS getting Green up to scratch post 2024.

Reply #904971 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Mills will go till 38+ with the boomers.
We could still see him off the bench in the 2028 Olympics.

Reply #904972 | Report this post


Pablo Escobar  
Two years ago

Of the naturalised imports that played for Australia, which, if any, have had a major impact at international level??

Reply #904973 | Report this post


KET  
Two years ago

Ricky Grace?

Reply #904975 | Report this post


Gold Vibes Only  
Two years ago

Anybody who watched our Tokyo campaign unfold will tell you Thybulle was a key piece. He provided desperately needed length and athleticism on the wing that we had lacked for so long. Injected into the starting line up for the bronze medal game and played the fourth most minutes for us across the tournament. He was a difference maker.

Reply #904976 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Two years ago

Leroy Loggins was the 2nd highest scorer for the Boomers in Barcelona, while only playing 20 mpg.

Scott Fisher was 6th man in Atlanta.


Grace only got around 3ppg on 7mpg over 7 games in Sydney.

Redhage got like 4ppg in 2008

Reply #904980 | Report this post


Jonno  
Two years ago

I think we need to be realistic with Cotton.

I think their is no chance he is picked ahead of Thybulle.

We also need to not expect him to be any form of replacement for Mills or of that level or ahead of our current NBA and Euroleague players.

The top International World Cup and Olympics is a massive step up from the NBL.

The main guys on most top teams are current Euroleague and NBA players.

Even though Cotton has played in both leagues, he ultimately fell out of both leagues and at the end of the day their is a reason that these clubs recruit and pay larger salaries to Exum, Green, Daniels, Giddey, Thybulle types over Cotton and he has fallen to the NBL. The reason is likely that they are better than Cotton and/or their game translates better to the higher level with extra length and athleticism, etc which also translates to how they will be more effective at the Olmpic/Wold cup level.

Would Cotton be better than Sobey or Goulding, likely yes as he is better in the NBL, but he is closer to Sobey/Goulding than Exum, Thybulle, Mills types.

As far as scoring to replace Mills in the future, the answer is not Cotton who isnt hugely younger than Mills either. We would be relying on guys like Green, Giddey, Simmons, Exum, Landale types to lead the next generation group of boomers, while also contributing well now. IMO if Josh Green was in the NBL he would shoot and score aswell as Cotton anyway.

We then have some young guards like Proctor coming through who seems to be another future NBA first rounder too.

I think we are in a historically great place in Australian basketball.

After 2000 we didnt have NBA players in their 20s like Simmons, Green, Thybulle, Landale, Daniels, Giddey and a Euroleague guy like Exum to fill the void. We dropped down to mostly NBL guys, with no NBA/Euroleague experience and the results followed, ie a talent level below the 2000 team. Plus also most of the guys I mentioned have already had a taste of the top intenrational level some of them playing key roles already which also wasnt the case with most of the group that replaced the 2000 team.

Reply #904981 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

"The top International World Cup and Olympics is a massive step up from the NBL."

Not if you have the quality to make that step. There is a good list of NBL players being high-level scorers in top international play if in a system that suits them: Gaze, Heal, Penney, Webster have all piled on the points.

Now Cotton won't need to do that, but he has the talent to deliver some of what Mills does with his speed, shooting and passing, so if there are players on the roster who can replace what Thybulle brings, you'd look to play Cotton if there is no Mills due to injury etc.

Reply #904982 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Two years ago

Comes down to 2 options...


Option 1
SG
Mills - Goulding - (Daniels+Green+Exum)
SF
Ingles - Thybulle - (Daniels+Green+Exum)


Option 2
SG
Mills - Cotton - (Daniels+Green+Exum)
SF
Ingles - (Daniels+Green+Exum)




Option 1 you get an elite defender in Thybulle who was fantastic in Tokyo.
Option 2 you get an added scorer on top of Mills, plus room for another big in the roster.
Room for Simmons or cooks on top of Kay, Landale and another TBD centre. (Baynes/Reath/Maker etc)

Reply #904983 | Report this post


Yup  
Two years ago

Mills averaged 32 minutes at the Olympics, even if that comes down 25 minutes, Green, Daniels and Exum can take the remaining SG minutes.

Need to get back to actually watching basketball, an all NBL guard isn't replacing and all NBA defender!

Blooding youngsters? Giddey, Green and Daniels say hi! they’ll be around for the next 3 Olympics.

Reply #904984 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

Again, no one wants a 'replacement', just bringing in a similar skillset if a key player is out injured.

I get a good laugh out of all the 'NBL player' comments. This board was filled with Nick Kay-Boomers hate once upon a time because he was an 'NBL player', but to those who know the game his skillset was going to translate well to international hoops.

The same will be the case for Cotton whose speed, shooting and passing are high level. He can certainly play an effective role off the bench for the Boomers if Mills is out injured.

Reply #904985 | Report this post


Jonno  
Two years ago

Green, Daniels, Giddey, Exum, Simmons can help cover Mills scoring, speed, play making if he happens to be injured and probably do it better than Cotton.

Remember both Giddey and Simmons score significantly more than Mills in the NBA and Green is currently averaging more PPG in the NBA too and shooting healthy 3pt %. So Im not at all worried about our scoring going forward with or without Mills, plus these guys bring extra lenth, athelticism and defence to the team. I personally think this coming group will be our best generation yet.

Post Mills the boomers will look a bit different, it will likely be less likely on Mills to score 20 and dominate and more like Giddey, Simmons, Green, Exum all scoring 10-20 points each which will make us more rounded and less reliant on one guy balling out.

Its also a bit of a moot point as Cotton isnt even a citizen at this stage, Mills isnt injured and Goorj raves about Thybulle and there is no way he is not picking him if available.

Reply #904986 | Report this post


Sebastian  
Two years ago

As Luka has continually stated it is much easier to score in the NBA as it is in Europe which is closer to FIBA. Mills doesn't score much in the NBA because he isn’t anything more than a bit player.

Mills knows how to score internationally, that is invaluable and rare.

Reply #904988 | Report this post


Yup  
Two years ago

Yeah Mills is a flat out scorer, the hardest thing to replace will be the clutch gene!

That doesn't mean Cotton gets picked over Thybulle, it means someone else will need to take that mantle, It really could be Landale as the clutch guy!!! Could be Giddey, my third bet right now would probably be Green, it really depends how those guys evolve over the next 2-6 years. The team is gonna look very very different post Patty!

This is not club basketball where you can pin point recruits to fill specific roles or weaknesses, and you definitely don’t replace your best defender who was 4th in minutes and is highly accomplished in the best league in the world so you can have a watered down, discounted, poor man’s version of your current captain and spiritual leader, you take your best guys and figure out how to best make it work,

Clearly Thybulle is an elite all world defender and the reality is we wouldn’t have a bronze medal with out him! Let that sink in!!!

Reply #904989 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Two years ago

I don't think we have any reason to fear a 2000-esque drop in world basketball relevance after the old guard of Boomers move on. We didn't have a dozen NBA players back then. The league was at one of its lows shortly after. Basketball Australia has done an excellent job running guys through Boomers jerseys. Guys like Toohey who are half a decade away from donning the jersey in serious competition already have a Boomers touch point. I cant see anything that BA could possibly do that would ensure the future of the Boomers culture more than what they have done, and the systems put in place by Andrej Lemanis have a big say as to why that is the case.

Most of the rose gold Boomers have at least 3-4 tournaments left in them, outside of Mills, Ingles, Baynes and Delly. That loss was compared to Gaze-Heal-Longley-Bradtke, but the remaining Paul Rodgers was not Jock Landale, Brett Maher was not Dante Exum, Martin Cattalini was not Josh Green. With the young talent coming through, there is no need to experiment or blood anyone for the next tournament. These guys are going to take spots on their own merits. Josh Green, Josh Giddey, Jock Landale, Dyson Daniels, Dante Exum, Ben Simmons all walk onto a Boomers team as essentially locks.

Talk of Patty Mills burning out is overblown. While his energy could be conserved for later in the tournament - a lesson to heed after the team collapsed in 2019 - the thought that he'd need to be managed in one two-week, once-per-year tournament so that he could contribute in another seems all a bit silly. His minutes will slightly decline as other options arise but he is still the spiritual leader on this team. He is still a unique proposition in international play and I still see him starting and playing most minutes.

A little sick of the Bryce Cotton talk as well. We've been banging on about him for 5 years now. The citizenship isn't in. The guy must have the hardest time I''ve ever heard of just to get one. But there isn't a single guard on the roster that isn't better than him. Patty Mills? Better. Josh Green? Better. Dante Exum? Better. Dyson Daniels? Better. Josh Giddey? Better. if you were to put him on the team you'd really have to justify his minutes. The Boomers arent about to turn into the Wildcats and design their whole offence around getting him buckets. Cotton would be a spot up shooter on the Boomers and would provide little else.





Reply #905042 | Report this post


hoopie  
Two years ago

Agree that the Boomers have a much stronger squad and encouraging signs for going forward, but I'd also point out that the rest of the world has got better too. Many countries have squads full of NBA and Euroleague players, many of them actual stars in those competitions.

Reply #905043 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Two years ago

"Cotton would be a spot up shooter on the Boomers and would provide little else."

Cotton isn't a spot-up shooter, he's quite the opposite. He's about off-ball movement and creating shots for himself and others, just like Patty. If he played for the Boomers, he'd be best used in bursts playing that same role and he'd be very capable of doing so.

Reply #905044 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

12 Now?

PG
Giddey

PG/SF/SG
Exum

SG/PG
Mills

SG/SF
Green

SG/SF/PG
Daniels

SF/PG/SG
Ingles

SF/PF
Thybulle

PF/C
Kay
Cooks

PF/C/PG
Simmons

C
Landale
Reath



Others portentially
Dellevedova PG
Cotton SG
Vasiljevic SG
Goulding SG
Creek SF/PF
White PF/SF
Pinder PF/C
Maker C/PF



Surely Out of contention.
Mccarron
Mcdowellwhite
Sobey
Proctor
Broekhoff
Travers
Mcveigh
Magnay
Baynes
Humphries


Reply #908951 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Like that team. Reath's spot is probably the question mark. Would still like a genuine big there, but not sure who at this point.

Reply #908953 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Simmons out because he simply won't have an intention to go to begin with - he’ll look to paris2024 imo.

Vasiljevic in to deliver that Goulding off the bench shooter role.

Cotton isn’t Australian so...

Reply #908955 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Update
In contention Atm?
(15)

PG
Giddey
Exum
Mcdowell-White

SG
Mills
Green
Daniels

SF
Thybulle
Ingles
White

PF
Cooks
Pinder
Kay

C
Landale
Reath
Maker


Possibly Dropped out
Cotton - still no citizenship
Simmons - MIA

Reply #914449 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Why do you have Pinder ahead of Kay?

Kay is most definitely ahead.

Reply #914451 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

It's not really in order but yes I would have Pinder ahead of Kay, he hasn’t even been that great in the b league.

Reply #914452 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Let's see how Pinder goes in the acb.

Reply #914453 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Pinder is a centre, two game in Spain, scoring well, defensively probably not what they were looking for, two losses in side trying to avoid relegation.

Reply #914457 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Pf/c can play either, like Kay

Reply #914460 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Kay is absolutely ahead of Pinder. For starters Pinder's never played at the international level and Kay has had some quite good games for us at major tournaments.

Reply #914461 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Your list doesn't really include that Goulding type pure shooter that can knock down shots in from the cold in limited minutes.

People make the mistake of assuming that’s an easy role to fill with NBA players that shoot at a decent clip. It’s one of the hardest roles to fill because it’s extremely hard to just rockup and nail shots without much space in international bball without having warmed up or taken a volume of shots.

The other key part missing is that bulky big/Centre role which Baynes was so important for us in. Playing against Euros, guys like Reath and Thon Maker will struggle to make any sort of position or hold ground against euro bigs.

I’d be tempted to risk a spot on Baynes or Humphries just to make sure you have that insurance against the Euros.

Reply #914464 | Report this post


mball  
Last year

I would definitely have Baynes in the team. He played well after the second half of the NBL season and is a veteran leader.

As for Pinder I would like to see him in the squad at least for the experience, possibly even 12th man, or 10th if only 10 players in team.

Reply #914466 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Last year

Boomers are no longer a massive change team after 2002.

Start with what you had...

Delly
Sobey

Mills
Goulding
Green

Ingles
Thybulle
Exum

Kay
Reath

Baynes
Landale

Who's out? You'd say Sobey for Giddey, and Baynes for Cooks. They may drop Reath instead of Baynes if they're worried about needing some bangers.

Giddey will leapfrog Delly and take the starting role, I'd suggest Green will leapfrog Goulding in the rotation too.

There a many many more capable players, but ask... who they beating out?

Only thing left is someone playing out of their skins in the 24-man to 15-man camp window.

I've yet to see a compelling case for the rest to be bumped out, or a player putting his hand up he's a lock for the squad.

Again, it is a case of who is out, and who for.

I think I've named the 2 who will be out.

Reply #914467 | Report this post


AlphabetA  
Last year

As KET said, not enough pure shooters - for this reason Goulding and Vasiljevic will be invited to the camp and one of them will make the team. The rest comes to finding a way to slot Cooks in with most of the team selected itself already, 8-9 locks IMO. Baynes may also be part of it to counter some European big bodied teams.

Reply #914468 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I agree despite his average NBL season Baynes needs to be in there even if only for one last hurrah. 10 years experience in the NBA and plenty of experience at the international level he's a known commodity even if on the slide now. He's far and away our biggest and strongest body to combat the big lugs plus he gets everyone going in the locker room too.

IMO, Vasiljevic hasn't done enough to knock Goulding out of his spot as that cold blooded knockdown shooter you need off the bench in an emergency situation. Cooks ahead of Reath too for mine.

Reply #914469 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

I watched highlights of Goulding in France on the weekend, he got burned by his team mates to many times for my liking, but in a game that needed to be won, when he got the ball he was huge. At one time with the play breaking down and two seconds left on the clock he gets ball in corner and nothing but net, it put out the come back from the other team. He should be a lock for Australian team.

Reply #914470 | Report this post


AlphabetA  
Last year

Zodiac, it's not about whether Vasiljevic has done enough, he is the closest thing to Goulding in ability, much younger and less prone to injuries. Over the years Vasiljevic has delivered multiple times on the international stage, most recently against Iran so I would not discount him at all. As I said, it will come down between them during the camp.

Reply #914476 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

I wouldn't discount Vasiljevic either, but seasons form Goulding got this by a long shot, yes the camp might change that but not on form as it’s stands.

Reply #914478 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

AlphabetA, I disagree totally on Vasiljevic. He's a poor man's Goulding in every way. I know the NBL love to hype him above his station but this is the serious stuff. No one gives a stuff about who does what against Iran, has he dropped 20 on the USA before? Had 20 point games off the bench at WC? He's never even played in a serious game for the Boomers before.

I'm not saying DJ is crap bring him into camp sure and let him and Goulding go at it maybe he'll pull a Gliddon and have the camp of his life and get on the team but I highly doubt it. Goulding's body work, the fact he's done it all before at the international level and that he's still a better player than DJ right now suggests Goulding doesn't have much to worry about.

Reply #914485 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Would like to see proctor in camp just to see how he goes against the other guards.
Has improved alot over first duke season.

Reply #914486 | Report this post


Cake  
Last year

I'd agree with that, Weedy. I was not impressed by Proctor in juniors and disappointed (as a Duke fan) when he signed there. But his play since Roach got hurt and they put the ball in his hands has been solid. I still think he's several years away, especially with a likely young trio of Giddey, Green and Daniels already in the team. But he should be in camp.

Reply #914500 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Yep, certainly will need his skillset in the future. Armstrong is another Id like to see around the program sooner rather than later.

Reply #914502 | Report this post


AlphabetA  
Last year

Zodiac - you are trying to compare apples and oranges - by your logic Giddey should not be considered as well since he has not played a serious game for the Boomers either. What the selectors will look for is constant growth which Vasiljevic has shown. And he did drop actually more than 20 points against USA in the junior WC against Tatum, that counts for something too. Many players from that generation are in the NBL now, which just shows the quality of these guys.

We don't have to agree but what Vasiljevic has shown over the years is that he can perform at a very high level under pressure, the coaches like him and he will be in the camp for many reasons, not just for a NBL hype. He can definitely shoot at a similar clip as Goulding especially if he is the primary target and he did show glimpses of it during these 3 seasons. But we'll know come July/August definitely.

Reply #914529 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Both Green and Thybulle shooting over 40% from 3 recently is welcomed.

Reply #914530 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

Kinda intrigued how you got Thybulle > 40%, but yeah it has been a very solid NBA season from a Boomers POV.
Exciting times if we score a healthy and completely available list of players to select from.

Reply #914531 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

For portland he was shooting 44% before Sunday's game. Now he’s on 39.1%

Reply #914532 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

Vaselivic will get a camp invite but doesnt have a bees dick chance of making the team. I mean, what NBA guy are you waiving to give him a spot?

A lot of very good players will miss out on this team. But some guys walk in as locks - Josh Giddey, Patty Mills, Joe Ingles, Jock Landale, Josh Green, Dante Exum, Matisse Thybulle.

Nick Kay *almost* joins the list but faces fierce competition with both Cooks and Jack White at his position.

Ben Simmons is a massive question mark, even if available.

You'd have to imagine Dyson Daniels is in the mix, and by virtue of being back in the NBA, so is Matthew Dellavedova.

Proctor is probably a touch too young.

The question for me is what is to be done inside. Aron Baynes? Keanu Pinder? Isaac Humphries? Thon Maker? Keanu Pinder?

Baynesy has a clear advantage in size here but I didnt see anything in the NBL season to suggest he was ready for international basketball.

And in among all this I think you have Chris Goulding and DJ basically in the wilderness, vying for a position in our most stacked spots.

Shooting doesn't present as the Boomers biggest issue this year - big men do.

Reply #914536 | Report this post


Jonno  
Last year



You would start with the 11 current NBA players Kay and Exum and guys who have played NBA and Euroleague, which gives you a squad of something like


Landale/Reath/Baynes/Maker/Humphries/Mathiang
Kay/Simmons/White/Cooks/Creek/Magney
Green/Ingles/Thybulle
Mills/Daniels/Broekhoff
Giddey/Exum/Delly/McDowell-White

Then you add in any NBL players if needed, but I would think just about all if the final 12 would come from the team above.

Reply #914537 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Potential rotation of 5 men

Embiid/Gobert/Poirer - France
Theis/Voightman/Hartenstein - Germany
Olynyk/Powell/Boucher - Canada
Towns/Horford/Vargas - Dominican Republic
Banchero/Melli/Polonara - Italy
Hernangomez/Saiz/Garuba - Spain
Sabonis/Valanciunas/Montejunas - Lithuania
Jokic/Milutinov/Ristic - Serbia
Tobey/Morgan/Dimec - Slovenia
Adams/Wetzell/Fotu - NZ
Hawkinson/Watanabe/Watanabe -Japan
Qi/Wang/Hu - China
Porzingis/Cavars/Pacecniks - Latvia
Markennan/Madsen/Dolenc - Finland
Bol/Acuil/Acuoth - South Sudan
Achiuwa/Bassey/Okafor - Nigeria
Papagiannis/Antetokoumpo/Gontikas - Greece

Reply #914539 | Report this post


Yup  
Last year

Yah the WC's is a much much BIGGER tournament than the Olympics.

That’s a crazy list when you think about it

I think ya gotta take Baynes, even as the 4th/5th big, we gonna be massively undersized if we don’t...

Reply #914540 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Simmons won't nominate, and I get the feeling Thybulle will wait until the Olympics as well.

In which case it’s Giddey, Cooks, Daniels in for Delly, Sobey, Thybulle.

C Landale/Reath/Baynes
F Kay/Cooks
F Ingles
G Mills/Green/Daniels/Goulding
G Giddey/Exum

Which would be fine without the SF since Giddey’s height usually has him playing point-small forward alongside two guards. Green is also capable in the SF role anyway.

If Thybulle plays, Daniels should miss-out imo especially since you’re really playing an 8 player rotation max with 2 limited minutes specific role-filling players.

Reply #914550 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

No Thybulle opens a slot for Cotton ahead of Daniels???

Reply #914551 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Cotton isn't Australian, what’s the chances he becomes Aussie in time for the world cup? Slim to none?

Reply #914553 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

None.

Reply #914573 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

I'm expecting 20 player Camp to look like

Giddey-Exum-McdowellWhite-Dellevedova
Mills-Green-Goulding-Vasljevic
Thybulle-Ingles-Daniels-White
Simmons-Cooks-Pinder-Kay
Landale-Reath-Maker-Baynes


Train ons with boomers potential
6’5 Armstrong 02
6’5 Proctor 04
6’6 Galloway 02
6’6 Siulepa 06
7’2 Zikarsky 06

Reply #914576 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I would have Goulding ahead of Green in the pecking order. We can afford to leave Green out of the team but not Goulding. Rule a line through Simmons I wouldn't pick him even if he wanted to play, he's blown too many chances and isn't good enough anymore to really move the needle. Baynes ahead of Reath and Maker too for mine, we can afford to leave either of those guys off the team but not Baynes.

Reply #914578 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Have you been watching green of late?

Reply #914579 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

No, he's only averaging 9.6 ppg in the NBA so why would you think he should be ahead of a proven performer like Goulding?

Reply #914585 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

So more than mills..., guess he's gone too.

Reply #914586 | Report this post


AlphabetA  
Last year

ME - my locks are the same as yours - Giddey, Mills, Ingles, Thybulle, Landale as starting 5 followed by Kay, Exum and Green. That's 8 positions. For remaining 4, I'm guessing only 8-9 players will be invited, so 2 per position. As I said, pure shooting position will be decided between Goulding and Vasiljevic, NBA guys can shoot but are ball heavy so this is not their position. Other invitees you can pick from the Slug's list, although I'm not convinced they would call up Daniels at this stage.

Reply #914587 | Report this post


AlphabetA  
Last year

Lol WS :)

Reply #914588 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

So more than mills..., guess he's gone too.


No, Mills is star at international level, he's proven like Baynes like Goulding.

Reply #914589 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I agree that's a likely and good 8 man rotation, albeit I’d have Kay perhaps in the starting PF with Thybulle SF.

So then you’ve got 4 positions to fill specific roles.

The Reath comes in as your next big man up - absolutely 150% need as good a backup C as we can muster.

Goulding (or DJ V) as your "come off the cold splintery bench and knock down shots immediately having barely touched the ball" player.

Baynes comes in purely on the basis of having a big bulky guy to save us from any critical/fatal issues against Euros.

So that leaves 1 spot.

You either go the backup PF, or the backup G/SF.

I’d be inclined to go Cooks because our weakness are our bigs and there’s no theoretical backup PF.

Thybulle is a guard in a SF body for international purposes. PF as an undersized is possible and we may be able to benefit from doing that against some times but we shouldn’t *rely* on it as a rotation.

C Landale/Reath/Baynes
F Kay/Cooks
F Thybulle/Ingles
G Mills/Green/Goulding
G Giddey/Exum

Reply #914590 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Against some teams

Reply #914591 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Isn't Simmons still injured, his tyres were so pumped up, looks like the air has left them.

Reply #914592 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Last year

"C Landale/Reath/Baynes
F Kay/Cooks
F Thybulle/Ingles
G Mills/Green/Goulding
G Giddey/Exum"

So the last squad, except Giddey & Cooks in for Delly and Sobey.

Reply #914602 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Reath not big enough, I'd take Baynes if he proves he’s fine at the camp. White can hit an outside shot and jumper, again if at the camp he does well he’s probably in ahead of Cooks.

Reply #914603 | Report this post


KWhite_Rulez  
Last year

Simmons will be nowhere near this team. And neither will Goulding.

Reply #914606 | Report this post


Yup  
Last year

It's like this board hasn’t seen Daniels play, he’s not being left off the team... simple!

Reply #914614 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

"So the last squad, except Giddey & Cooks in for Delly and Sobey."

Yessir.

“It's like this board hasn't seen Daniels play, he’s not being left off the team... simple!”

It’s hard to fit him in on a full strength team. Absolutely no doubt he will be in a future team, but right now Giddey, Exum, Mills, Thybulle and Ingles are all ahead if healthy and nominated.

That leaves Goulding - so the question is: do we go the experience and person that fits the “not in the rotation but fits a very specific purpose role” or go the player youth route on the basis of getting Daniels immersed into the Boomers culture and international major tournament experience.

Fitting style of play, balance, roles and experience has generally taken precedence over youth historically.

See Simmons & Giddey exclusions throughout Boomers history.

Reply #914621 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I forgot to say Green is also ahead of Daniels.

Reply #914622 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Reath is taller than Baynes and only 20lbs less. He's big enough.

Reply #914623 | Report this post


Yup  
Last year

Yeah cool story but Goulding isn't making it over Daniels, and I’m a Goulding guy!

Ingles will move into Goulding’s role, similar to Ingles Bucks role.

Green will start, similar to Greens Mavs role.

I doubt Daniels is behind Exum, and come next tournament will have completed his second season and ready to break out!

Reply #914625 | Report this post


AlphabetA  
Last year

Yup - you obviously don't watch Euroleague to comment on Exum - Daniels is miles behind him at the moment, it seems Exum has reinvented himself and I'd be very surprised if he is not back into the league after this season. Also Ingles will play exactly the same role as he has in the past, he is not the guy to sit on the bench and come in only when needed. As a premier defender, Daniels doesn't bring anything extra and over what you'll get from Thybulle, Green or Exum, who are far better outside shooters and far more experienced than him. The goal is the medal and they will pick the best team to achieve that, with Goorj there is no blooding. I guess the proof is in the pudding, will wait and see when their names are called up.

Reply #914635 | Report this post


Cake  
Last year

What I've seen of Daniels this season is very good defensively and pretty poor offensively. His decision-making at NBA pace just isn't there yet, and he doesn't have the handles to generate anything independently. Green is much more rounded, and Exum is much more experienced. I agree with this squad:
C Landale/Reath/Baynes
F Kay/Cooks
F Thybulle/Ingles
G Mills/Green/Goulding
G Giddey/Exum
The spot for Daniels would be if Thybulle doesn't put his hand up, but I wouldn't rule out Delly there, either, as we could use Green at SF.

Reply #914641 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last year

I like your squad, Cake.

I'm still worried about our bigs, though. If Thybulle doesn’t play, could Cooks slip into the 3-spot so that we can bring in another big? Even someone young and solid like Humphries or experienced like Motum? I know Cooks doesn’t have a shot to pull defences out, but he has good handles and is quick and agile and will get to the basket comfortably.

Reply #914644 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

C Landale/Reath/Baynes
F Kay/Cooks
F Thybulle/Ingles
G Mills/Green/Goulding
G Giddey/Exum


That looks pretty nice actually, that would do me.

I don't think Daniels would be a serious chance of making the team and he's certainly behind Exum in the pecking order. Didn't Dante get Euroleague player of the week a week or two ago?

Reply #914645 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Exum did get euro league player of the week, it's been a strange season for him, he’s had some very good performances but also some very mediocre ones. I’m not certain WMW should be in that squad as the backup point. Exum maybe as a two, three.

Reply #914652 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

That can be the nature of European basketball where they play very structured. Against certain teams you get more opportunities than others depending on whether the coaches think you are an area of advantage or not.

Reply #914669 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

"C Landale/Reath/Baynes
F Kay/Cooks
F Thybulle/Ingles
G Mills/Green/Goulding
G Giddey/Exum"


Yeah I like this team too, and there's some good options if any of these guys are unavailable. Good situation to be in.

Reply #914670 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Zac White will be putting his hand up, got a few more tricks than Cooks. Dominating in G league at present.

Reply #914678 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Xavier Cooks > Jack White for a PF position

Reply #914681 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

G league is below nbl, that's why Jack is destroying kids and veterans.

Reply #914682 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

If G league well below the nbl, and you might be right, why do clubs keep bringing in imports from g league and paying top dollar.
I'm a White fan, as I said I think he’s got more strings than Cooks, just an opinion, goorg will sort it out.

Reply #914683 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

They don't bring in imports from the G-League on top dollar, they bring them in because they're cheap. The G-League pays peanuts. They're usually young guys straight out of college and yet to play in Europe or anywhere else decent just starting out on a pro career.

If they go undrafted in the NBA they might hang around in the G-League for a season or two hoping for a call up getting paid garbage money and once they get sick of that and kind give up on their NBA dream they then overseas to start trying to make real money before their careers end.

Good luck to Jack White putting up numbers in the G-League, which mind you is deplorable defensively, wins/losses irrelevant and stats padded by 48 min games too, but he's only an average player in the NBL and is no real threat to Cooks re Boomers selection.

Reply #914684 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Jack White is another great option. The G League has plenty of talent, but it is below the standard of the NBL because the level of team basketball played is significantly higher here.

Reply #914685 | Report this post


mball  
Last year

Not much love for Delly any more? He has been such a stalwart of the Boomers and deserves to go out internationally on his own terms.

I would say that Mills, Jingles, Delly, Baynes and on a lesser note Goulding and Sobey will all retire internationally after the WC and Olympics.

Reply #914687 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

You can put a line through Ben Simmons AGAIN with the "nerve impingement". Seriously this guy should take a leaf out of Jonah Bolden's book. He's stolen tens of millions from NBA teams.. call it a day and ride off into the sunset.

Reply #914708 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

"Not much love for Delly any more? He has been such a stalwart of the Boomers and deserves to go out internationally on his own terms."

It's not about whether we have love for Delly anymore. We have love for Andrew Gaze but I wouldn't ask him to suit up at the next world cup. I am not sure that someone "deserving" a spot is justification for getting one. The question is whether he can tangibly make the team better than they would be with a different option. With Josh Giddey, Exum, WMW, Proctor and others in the mix the answer to that is not definite.

"I would say that Mills, Jingles, Delly, Baynes and on a lesser note Goulding and Sobey will all retire internationally after the WC and Olympics."

Sobey should't be within 100 miles of the next Boomers teams. He's shown consistently that he is not up to top flight international competition. Goulding hasn't overlly delivered either, except for games against lesser teams. I see the need for spot up microwaves off the bench but I am not sure he's been all effective at that internationally anyway. Broekhoff may even be a better option in that he's still a couple years younger and his role has always been as a spot up shooter.

"Good luck to Jack White putting up numbers in the G-League, which mind you is deplorable defensively, wins/losses irrelevant and stats padded by 48 min games too, but he's only an average player in the NBL and is no real threat to Cooks re Boomers selection."

You think Jack White was an average player in the NBL? The difference he made United when he was in vs. when he was out was conclusive evidence against that. Kay, Cooks and White at PF is definitely a log jam and any of them could make it.

Reply #914709 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Goulding hasn't overlly delivered either, except for games against lesser teams.


If we're forgetting the 20 he put up off the bench against Team USA in a warm up game last WC? I might sound like I'm a Goulding fanatic or something but when hot he can score effectively from any range against any defender. He's a potential gamebreaker which is why he has to be on the team and will be. Not one other player in the team/squad can provide what he can, not even Patty and I'm not say Goulding's a better player than him because he isn't.



Last season with United he was 45th in the league in scoring averaging 9.3 ppg and 13th in rebounding at 6.9 rpg. Shot 53.6% FG (only 7.0 FGA p/g), 24.4% 3pt (1.6 3FGA p/g) and 63.8% FT. That's bang on average in my books.

White's a nice player good team smart good defensively but he's got absolutely no business being anywhere near a full strength Boomers team and is a fraction of the player Cooks is.

Reply #914717 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I'll try again on the second part.

You think Jack White was an average player in the NBL?
Last season with United he was 45th in the league in scoring averaging 9.3 ppg and 13th in rebounding at 6.9 rpg. Shot 53.6% FG (only 7.0 FGA p/g), 24.4% 3pt (1.6 3FGA p/g) and 63.8% FT. That's bang on average in my books.

White's a nice player good team smart good defensively but he's got absolutely no business being anywhere near a full strength Boomers team and is a fraction of the player Cooks is.



Reply #914718 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I don't know why it's not letting me post properly but you can make out what I'm responding to.

Reply #914719 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I hadn't considered Simmons for WC contention even if he was totally healthy tbh.

Reality is, he comes across as someone that just doesn’t really enjoy basketball. Super talented, earns the big $$$ but doesn’t enjoy it. Sort of like Nick Kyrgios.

So on that basis I always had the feeling only Paris 2024 was going to pique his interest and perhaps LA 2028 by virtue of being in America if he happens to be around then.

If Simmons was *healthy* and *remotely interested* and so happened to *nominate*, I’d include him in a heart beat.

I get the potential downsides both chemistry and the balance of having a guy that refuses to shoot.

At the same time - we aren’t overly stacked with bigs and he’s one of the few players in the world that can shutdown or at least put up a fight against the best in the world. I’d back him to cause Durant issues with his defence, for instance.

You take that because it’s the best way to give yourself a gold medal chance.

But the 2023 it’s a non-issue, there’s absolutely zero indication he’d nominate and this injury basically seals the deal.

Reply #914722 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Re Delly:

I think if he was included, it would be on the basis of culture and chemistry. I think when you've got mills, ingles already, that spot needs to be used to provide a role with a true on-court upside such as a specialist shooter.

Guards wise, they’ve got Giddey, Mills, Exum, Green, Daniels, Goulding....Thybulle technically could be a SG. I don’t see Delly being a priority over those guys, so we’d need to see Thybulle not nominating plus someone like Green or Daniels not nominating as well.


Re White:
Stats need to be put to the side to an extent. Context and application is so very important - not much point chucking stats up un-analysed and assuming it’s all like-for-like comparisons.

If we used stats like 3pt %, we would look better than we are shooting wise. Giddey for instance, internationally with physical defence played is not a three point shooter like a lot of the euros are, so let’s not pretend because he has nailed them at a decent rate this year in the NBA that he’s going to be a three point shooter to rely on like some of the euros getting it done in more physical euro competitions.

Kay, if relied on for stats, was probably not going to be a guy that should have made the Boomers. He smashed it at camp, fit a perfect role and made the team and proceeded to do carve out a place for himself.

White will need to do that - he should be given a camp spot but he’d need to smash it at camp and find a role for himself. Problem is, if you’ve got guys like Kay and Cooks already, he might be waiting until next World Cup…..

Reply #914723 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Jack White is a star. It surprises me there is still an under-appreciation of the ability to defend. It's just as important as scoring points. If Adelaide had White on the other side of ball-screens this season they would have been a good team. He doesn't post the stats of Franks but he has the traits that help his team win.

Reply #914728 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Bit different between being able to help 36ers and being on a Boomers World Cup side....

Reply #914729 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

Size and athleticism is why I look to Jack White a bit. We're not big inside. If you dont have height, you'd better have athleticism, and if you dont have that, you better have size. I see Jack White providing a lot of what Nick Kay does, except with size and athleticism. I really think those two could end up fighting for the same spot. Nick Kay, however, has ingrained himself on the program and proven his worth internationally. I think Cooks probably makes the team.

I think one of Baynes or Humphries will make the team as well. We cant afford to be mowed down inside. Ideally we force teams into a running game where they cant keep up, but if someone like France gets the tempo on us they want, and we're not bringing some big bodies, we're going to get done by 30. We were very lucky not to match up against a France or Spain at the Olympics in 2021.

Reply #914731 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

Size and athleticism is why I look to Jack White a bit. We're not big inside. If you dont have height, you'd better have athleticism, and if you dont have that, you better have size. I see Jack White providing a lot of what Nick Kay does, except with size and athleticism. I really think those two could end up fighting for the same spot. Nick Kay, however, has ingrained himself on the program and proven his worth internationally. I think Cooks probably makes the team.

I think one of Baynes or Humphries will make the team as well. We cant afford to be mowed down inside. Ideally we force teams into a running game where they cant keep up, but if someone like France gets the tempo on us they want, and we're not bringing some big bodies, we're going to get done by 30. We were very lucky not to match up against a France or Spain at the Olympics in 2021.

Reply #914732 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Where are you getting these takes from? Jack White that's bad enough but Humphries? As in Isaac Humphries?

I'm sure these guys will be named in the 40 man every kid wins a prize initial squad no doubt but we're not talking about two guys that really have any hope of making the actual final team.

Reply #914733 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

It's not ridiculous - if no Baynes, how do you compete with Euro muscle?

Don’t really have much in the way of options, they all are wholly inadequate - Thon Maker - nope, won’t handle euros. If Reath was out you’d consider Thon Maker.

Motum? Not really a C and again really not bulky enough.

Humphries? Good defensively, bulky, NBA experienced big.

Ideal? No, ofcourse not. The only real option not named Baynes? Pretty much.

Reply #914734 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I am not saying Isaac Humphries is a world changing player but he fits the profile of the kind of size we need.

Reply #914735 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

It's not ridiculous - if no Baynes, how do you compete with Euro muscle?


Well how would Humphries compete with it? and why no Baynes? Of course Baynes is ahead of Humphries in the pecking order so are Landale, Reath, Maker, you can't pick five centres? Why bother mentioning him are two centres going to blow their knees out in the camp?

Look I don't mind Humphries as much of a disaster as he was with Adelaide he at least showed this season at United he can play a season of basketball. Aside from his mediocre numbers this seasons he doesn't have the bulk, strength or heart to bang with serious Euro bigs. Good shot blocker in a undersized league like the NBL but against world quality bigs forget it. He wouldn't offer much more than five fouls a game.

Reply #914736 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Busy Next decade
Rough estimate when we will lose the player following tournament (if selected)

2023 World Cup - End of (37)Baynes
2024 Olympics France - End of (37)Ingles, (36)Goulding
2026 Asia Cup - End of (36)Dellevedova, (36)Broekhoff, (36)Sobey
2027 World Cup - End of (36)Mccarron, (36)Creek
2028 Olympics Los Angeles - End of (40)Mills
2030 Asia Cup - End of (36)Kay
2031 World Cup - End of (37)Cotton, (36)Landale, (36)Exum, (36)Cooks, (36)Pinder
2032 Olympics Brisbane - End of (36)Simmons, (36)Reath, (36)Mcveigh, (35)Maker, (35)White, (35)Thybulle, (35)Vasljevic, (35)Hunter, (34)Humphries, (34)Magnay, (34)Mcdowell-White, (34)Glover

Beyond this, who's left? Who else makes bulk of the home Olympics squad...
Basically anyone born in 2000s>

NBA exp likely
Green, Giddey, Armstrong, Galloway, Daniels, Proctor
Prospects
Froling, Ducas, Gak, Duach, Toohey, Condon, Henshall, Hawke, Bradtke, Siulepa, Zikarsky etc etc

Reply #914738 | Report this post


Yup  
Last year

To say Jack White is an average NBL player is absurd, to say he belongs no where near the team is more absurd.

The PF spot is Kay's to lose, White and Cooks to battle out for backup, I have doubts on Cooks because he gives alot of what we already have with Thybulle, just can’t see cooks getting 4 man minutes before Thybulle.

Also shooting, Whites the better shooter, we can’t say we gonna pick Goulding over Daniels for shooting but at the same time pick cooks over White when cooks can’t hit the side of a barn.

Goulding really struggles against the longer wings, he was a factor against Slovenia but SLO don’t have great wings outside of Luka, the other nations length made Goulding almost unplayable

Reply #914739 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

" and why no Baynes?"

ME said Baynes or Humphries. But if for whatever reason Baynes was not available, we enter into this hypothetical of best option to battle euro bigs.

“so are Landale, Reath, Maker, you can't pick five centres? Why bother mentioning him are two centres going to blow their knees out in the camp?”

That's a weird way to look at it. They serve different purposes.

I’d suggest to you that Baynes and Humphries are included in discussion by virtue of being literally the only options to handle euro bigs.

Maker and Reath would be substitutes. If Reath was injured and Baynes was there with Landale, I’d propose Thon Maker over Humphries.

I thought we were obvious in making our points about that?

“ Aside from his mediocre numbers this seasons he doesn't have the bulk, strength or heart to bang with serious Euro bigs.”

His defence is actually very strong, what numbers are you trying to use to say it isn’t?

If he doesn’t have the bulk who does? Thon Maker?!

Reply #914740 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I realise some people are getting sucked right in by Jack White's nice current run in the G-League but he was very, very fortunate to get a two-way contract from Denver this season. A scout must've fallen in love with him and talked the coaching staff into it. That's cool great for him, it happens a bit but he's got virtually no chance of getting another NBA contract and then he'll be back here in the NBL playing good D and averaging his 9 & 7. I mean come on.

Reply #914742 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Kay starting over cooks or Simmons or white or Pinder, couple of years ago yes, not sure anymore...

Reply #914743 | Report this post


It's worth pointing out Jack White’s 9 and 7 stats came the season after tearing his acl. I’d be surprised if he put up numbers that low should he return next year.

Reply #914745 | Report this post


Yup  
Last year

If the teams weak points are size and shooting then White is the better option over Cooks

Reply #914746 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

To say Jack White is an average NBL player is absurd, to say he belongs no where near the team is more absurd.

and what's also absurd is assuming he is rated by us because of his NBA signing even though we've been doing so since his first season with United.

Reply #914748 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

"If the teams weak points are size and shooting then White is the better option over Cooks"

The bigs shooting isn't an issue though.

It’s guards and small forwards not named Mills/Ingles that’s the issue.

Giddey, Green, Thybulle, Exum aren’t sharp shooters or “scorers”. If you need a score in a slow period or you need someone to hit a clutch shot, none of them are those types.

I wouldn’t let NBA shooting % at the moment distract from that, as much as the NBA shooting from the above names is certainly on the improve.

It’s an issue that we had a bit last Olympics (Thybulle and Exum actually shot decently), and a lot last WC. Too reliant overall on Mills and Ingles.

Same issue applies a bit this WC and will apply a lot when Mills and Ingles retire.

Re height/size: White doesn’t solve it. We need people a couple Euro style big banger options like Baynes.

Reply #914749 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I wonder if Baynes still is an option for the Boomers anyway. He hasnt played any qualifiers in the meantime despite being fit and available.He's hardly looked like the guy dying to get back around the team, put it that way.

Reply #914751 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Unfortunately I also have that nagging feeling.

Good chance we are screwed if we don't have someone to counter-act the euro bigs.

Reply #914762 | Report this post


mball  
Last year

I would imagine all the Tokyo Boomers will put their hands up. Although with the emergence of some younger highly talented players some will obviously miss out. Goorj has a very tough job ahead of him.

Reply #914766 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Big game by Pinder v Real Madrid

Interesting to see how he'd go in Boomers camp.

Reply #914769 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Pinder stats were great, he was the worst minus on the floor. He was brought in to try and avoid relegation and he's at 0 from 3. Now you want talk about stats, McVeigh has done exactly what he was brought into do and is 2-1 wins for a bottom table team. Pinder would get eaten alive against euro power houses.

Reply #914770 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Enormous game from Pinder against a world class team. Should definitely get an invite to camp. I think his lack of FIBA experience will hurt him, but deserves a look.

Reply #914771 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Geez if top of the ACB isn't considered a euro powerhouse, I’m not sure what is?

Reply #914772 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

I was actually talking about countries, real we're in second gear and defensively he wasn’t great. Stats don’t always tell the whole story.

Reply #914776 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Last year

Well there was a dude on that Fuenlabrada roster called "Jordan Caroline".

Now if this is the quality of import they have (had), I'm thinking the Fuenlabrada roster is a bit thin.

They haven't won since November 5th and have lost 16 successive games since then, with an average losing margin of 18 points.

Reply #914785 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Lost by 22 today, Caroline didn't play, Pinder was minus 26. It always hard to tell on imports, lot a players that don’t work out in nbl quite often can go on for good careers, and visa versa, be crap in Europe but good in nbl. Again got be careful just relying on stats. Good luck to Pinder, I’m just saying be wary on stats alone.

Reply #914787 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

One other thing, real played 12 players, the highest minute player was 23 minutes.

Reply #914788 | Report this post


McBlurter  
Last year

"Lost by 22 today, Caroline didn't play".

He was let go in January, I'm gathering that.

"Pinder was minus 26."


yes, the team lost by 22, I would suspect many starts would have a low +/-


"It always hard to tell on imports, lot a players that don't work out in nbl quite often can go on for good careers, and visa versa, be crap in Europe but good in nbl. Again got be careful just relying on stats. Good luck to Pinder, I’m just saying be wary on stats alone."

Then the first thing I'm doing is looking at 11 other players for Fuenlabrada. I mean their last 8 games, so 6 prior to Pinder arriving are losses of:
45, 16, 28, 12, 14, 14, 17, 24

I would suspect a +/- of negative 20 is a feature of playing for Fuenlabrada, not a Pinder-esque bug.

Reply #914790 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Melo Trimble went there after his nbl days and saved them. Any way as I said, good luck to him, they still got enough games to avoid relegation, hopefully not to tough a run home for them and he might save there top division status, it's what he’s been brought in for.

Reply #914792 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

I'd be astonished if Pinder didnt get a training camp invite. I'd say that is a done deal.

Reply #914797 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

With Pinder...
The euro commentators were surprised, like where did this guy come from? Never heard of or seen him before.

He looks athletic, mobile. Left and right handed hookshots, spins, blocks, a few 3 ptrs. He's handles have improved a lot too. The big plonking euro guys can’t deal with him it seems.

Reply #914798 | Report this post


RobT  
Last year

Wonder if the European power-house teams are worried about the Boomers. They should be IMO. The NBL is a great league (not just my opinion).

Our best players are best at playing our own style. Yeah, many say, "we're more European than NBA style". Truth is, IMO, that maybe we have style than may bother lots of other teams.

And we have Goorjian, no-one else does.

Of course we have to scout all the other contenders but let's not forget how good we are too.

OK, say Cooks is lacking playing against big bruising Euros and that his outside shots are wanting, but who is actually going to stop him doing what he does, cutting, slashing, scoring AND drawing lots of fouls. He does need to improve on free-throws but is not needed as an outside threat. Simmons, at his very best, can't shoot to save his life but is so good in so many other ways. Would you leave him out too?

You want shooters? Take some. But if 40% to 50% FG made is considered as a fair to good return then rebounds and put-backs can be vital. I am happy if Cooks makes it.

Reply #914800 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Any other players looking to switch nations this WC?

Embiid-France
Reaves-Germany

Reply #914819 | Report this post


Yup  
Last year

Who's gonna stop Cooks?

I’d say the other Boomers who are better than him, Cooks isn’t gonna have the ball bro, they ball is gonna be in Giddeys hands...

Time to be real, Cooks skill set isn’t the greatest for this team right now…

Reply #914821 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Cooks isn't a player who needs the ball in his hands. Offensively he's a guy who's best feeding off others and then making plays.

Reply #914830 | Report this post


RobT  
Last year

Yup, no probs with your opinion on Cooks. It's just the crits from others re not having a shot. Kay is a 3pt marksman? Reath? Not even our guards are not much better and that is more their responsibility than a 4 or a 5. If Cooks doesn't make the team cos someone else is better at what he does, great. Better than Cooks is good by me. So far, only Mills and Ingles can claim a reliable outside shot. All the others are passable, is all.

Now, who else has the combination of size and athleticism that Cooks brings. Please don't tell me that Landale should be excluded cos he can't fill in as PG

Reply #914842 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Jack White ^^^^ plus has a jump shot.

Reply #914846 | Report this post


mball  
Last year

"Now, who else has the combination of size and athleticism that Cooks brings. Please don't tell me that Landale should be excluded cos he can't fill in as PG"

Keanu Pinder. Similar height, extremely athletic and great shooter.

Reply #914849 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Last year

To elaborate on RobT's point, some of the best games the Boomers have played in the past decade have come from playing "our style". I remember seeing it in full flight in 2014 in our shock win over Lithuania. We pressed that team, ran, ran, ran some more. The Europeans aren't well adapted to that kind of pace. I dont think we want a grind it out game, and I dont think they want to play our loosey goosey - run it down their throats - style. We could definitely smash some very good European teams. But we could also get smashed if they control the tempo.

Reply #914867 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Yeah it's about controlled speed, taking open court chances when you can and flowing into offence to keep the ball moving. Obviously you've got to be able to play half-court, but the less you have to do it the less oppo becomes used to guarding your slow-down sets.

Reply #914882 | Report this post


Cake  
Last year

^ This is such an underrated aspect of playing at pace. We talk about getting into an offensive rhythm all the time, but if the defence just has to go through the motions for the first few cuts and screens of a set, they're not really working, you're not putting them under enough pressure to open cracks.

I don't watch a ton of NBL so can't really comment on Cooks. But one of the interesting things will be who from the new options has a Boomers-mode. I think a lot of us were surprised when Nick Kay made the WC team, but he was amazing, and has been a lock ever since. If we're lucky, one of the Cooks, White, Pinder options will set himself apart in camp and end up playing a much larger role than anyone is anticipating.

Reply #914894 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Team looks close to set by most

Giddey
Exum
Mills
Goulding(O) or Daniels(D)
Green
Thybulle
Ingles
Cooks
Pinder(5/4) or White(4/3)
Kay
Landale
Reath(Shooting/mobility) or Baynes(Screens/muscle)

Reply #914895 | Report this post


Yup  
Last year

Cooks can play off ball, he still doesn't need to be defended, Serbia could put Boban on cooks and park Boban in the middle of the key, killing Giddeys space.

The other big options - aren’t snipers, but definitely command more defensive attention than Cooks does...

Playing cooks and Thybulle together will be suicide, Thybulle was 4th in minutes at the Olympics…

Reply #914898 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I don't think you could play Giddey, Thybulle, Cooks together. Despite Giddey’s improving shooting form, Aussies will always need 2 of Mills, Ingles, Landale tbh.

If you have Thybulle or Giddey or Cooks etc you need the others to be offensive options.

Imagine if they had Simmons, Thybulle, Giddey on the court at the same time....ooft.

Reply #914899 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

"Cooks can play off ball, he still doesn't need to be defended, Serbia could put Boban on cooks and park Boban in the middle of the key."

That riddle was solved a long time ago, use your non-shooter as a screener for shooters.

Reply #914900 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

"I think a lot of us were surprised when Nick Kay made the WC team, but he was amazing, and has been a lock ever since."

There are those that were surprised and then there's liars.

Kay is basically the gold standard for punching above weight and has made us hopeful and greedy in wanting others to achieve similarly.

One thing he has on his side is he’s clearly an intelligent, efficient and effective player both with and without the ball.

The question for Pinder and Cooks is - are they capable of being that next level intelligent on the floor? Are they capable of playing an effective role without the ball?

If they’re reliant on athleticism to be effective I think that’s where they’ll fall down - we don’t need them to be overly athletic, we have lots of that now. We don’t need them to be good with the ball because frankly they won’t get much of it.

Reply #914908 | Report this post


RobT  
Last year

Sorry to keep going on but the suggestion of Boban on Cooks or parking him (Boban) in the key makes me think that Goorj would love to see Boban wasted on guarding Cooks and leaving our 5s to some-one, any-one else. In a zone, Boban is going to be a beast on anyone, let alone Cooks.

I honestly see that Cooks has competition for a spot but not this one-dimensional stuff. "He can't shoot", "Boban will kill him", please.

I really like this forum with so much that I gain by reading most of this but some of these posts leave me gasping. I know I am not the smartest cookie in the barrel.

Here's my tip. IF COOKS GETS THE NOD, and IF WE COME UP AGAINST SERBIA AND THEIR COACH PUTS BOBAN ON COOKS, sit Cooks or use him as a decoy, let the rest of the Boomers go to town. Every now and then, Cooks could prob go right at Boban (don't try avoid to avoid him) and get him fouled out, Cooks is a wizz at getting to the basket and drawing fouls on anyone. But he (Cooks) ain't great from the line either but worth it if gets Boban out of the game.

As I have said prev, if Cooks does not make the team, so be it but let it be cos some-one else is better, not because Boban will stop him. Even if Boban is such a threat (and he prob is) remember, he only plays for one team. Not every one has a Boban.

Enough from me, on Cooks!

Reply #914911 | Report this post


Yup  
Last year

The thing is Jokic will be in the 4 spot, it's a massive tournament, lots of bigs, hence the Baynes discussion.

Your proving my point, "sit him" confirms it’s gonna be difficult to play cooks at times, and you don’t pick an 11th man to be an offensive decoy that can’t shoot.

Reply #914917 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

I doubt jokic plays the 4, they tried that and failed.

Reply #914918 | Report this post


rjd  
Last year

I'm in the intrigued-to-see-White's-chances-in-the-Boomers group. He produces winning intangibles and that Kay-like role player potential that can be so valuable. I personally wouldn't place Cooks over either White or Pinder until they are all well and truly tested within the Boomers system.

Reply #914961 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

After a brawl today in the euroleague, Yabusele has slammed Exum into the ground causing injury. Some reports are saying ruptured Achilles and broken toe, if so Exum would be unavailable for WC. Yabusele with the dog act should be banned for the rest of the season and next Imo.

Reply #916595 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Fuark

Reply #916596 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

They are now saying ruptured tendon in his toe plus spinal bruising and cut lip.
Hopefully he is ok and it's nothing long term.

Reply #916597 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

The whole incident all looked very nasty, you need super slow mo to really see what happened. Madrid gone, haven't been good this season. Exum certainly found a good home in Partizan, had great season.

Reply #916598 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Ruptured toe tendon, 8 weeks to 6 months. recovery time.

WC august 25th. Warm up games july/august.

Reply #916599 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Reply #916605 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Germany pool

6'1 Schroder
6’3 Hollatz
6’3 Lo
6’3 Obst
6’5 Walter-Babb
6’6 Kramer
6’7 Giffey
6’8 Sengfelder
6’8 Theis
6’9 Bonga
6’9 Da Silva
6’9 Wagner
6’9 Thiemann
6’10 Kleber
6’10 Kratzer
6’10 Bottermann
6’11 Wagner
6’11 Voightmann

Reply #918605 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last year

Reports Simmons is out, will focus on upcoming season with brooklyn.

Reply #919234 | Report this post




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