Hooper
Last year

Heal in Court with the Flames

According to Matt Logue,

"The mystery surrounding Shane Heal's absence from the Sydney Flames has taken another turn, with the NBL great applying for a federal court injunction against the team."

What a surprise.

I can’t see the rest of the article

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Perthworld  
Last year

Shane Heal applies for federal court injunction against the Sydney Flames

By MATT LOGUE
NEWS CORP AUSTRALIA SPORTS NEWSROOM
8:55PM FEBRUARY 7, 2023

Shane Heal has applied for a federal court injunction against the Sydney Flames following the club's decision to stand him down, pending an investigation.
But the ongoing mystery surrounding Heal’s three-week absence as the Flames’ WNBL coach took a dramatic turn on Tuesday when his injunction was referred to mediation for this Thursday.

Heal, an Australian basketball legend, hasn’t coached Sydney’s WNBL side since January 15 and it has since emerged the Flames have launched an investigation.

Neither the Flames, nor Heal, have revealed the nature of the investigation.

However, it is understood the Flames launched the workplace investigation after several Flames players complained to both the club and the Australian Basketball Players’ Association about Heal’s behaviour as head coach.

The Flames have refused to comment on the probe involving the Australian basketball legend, but News Corp understands that the independent firm engaged to handle the claims is close to completing its investigation.

It is understood the former Boomers captain and four-time Olympian took his case against the Flames to the Federal court in Sydney on Tuesday due to dissatisfaction with progress of the independent workplace investigation.

News Corp understands there was an urgent interlocutory application that was filed before the duty judge in the Federal Court of Australia to stop the Sydney Flames from making any decision regarding Heal’s employment after refusal by the club to give any undertakings.

The club declined to comment on the latest development.

It’s also understood that Heal has raised his own issues over his treatment by the club, which has been lodged with the Fair Work Commission but is yet to be determined.

Heal, meanwhile, maintained his silence about the Flames’ independent investigation via the Basketball Show on Monday.

"No updates," Heal said.

“Director Dave said I was too jovial when I had to discuss it last week (on the show).

“The facts are that I’ve been handed a piece of paper and I’m not allowed to say one word.

“That is all I’m allowed to say.”

Heal did address his daughter Shyla leaving the Flames to sign with the Townsville Fire, where she played in 2020 and led the Fire to a grand final series.

When asked if Shyla’s signing with the Fire was a separate issue to his investigation with the Flames, he replied: 100 per cent.”

Heal’s case comes four months after club legend and former coach Karen Dalton filed a lawsuit in the federal court against the Flames.

In an ongoing case, Dalton claims she was discriminated against by a “boys club” because of her age, gender and disability after complaining about the lack of resources given to the Flames compared to the Sydney Kings men's team.

The 62-year-old was employed as head coach of the Flames in 2003 and promoted to general manager in April 2014.

She moved into the role of CEO in July 2020, reporting to Sydney Flames owner Paul Smith and Sydney Kings CEO Chris Pongrass.

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Perthworld  
Last year

TL;DR version without the legal stuff:

However, it is understood the Flames launched the workplace investigation after several Flames players complained to both the club and the Australian Basketball Players' Association about Heal’s behaviour as head coach.

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Luuuc  
Last year

When asked if Shyla's signing with the Fire was a separate issue to his investigation with the Flames, he replied: 100 per cent."


*cough*bullshit*cough*

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Dunkman  
Last year

Oh my, from the outside who knows, but some people really come across as entitled, maybe on both sides, though one certainly has form in court cases.

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Hooper  
Last year

What is Heal's history with court cases etc? What has he been involved in?

How about his coaching history? What’s happened there?

Reply #911595 | Report this post


orbit  
Last year

I thought this was a case of him being to hard on them & blaming the players work ethics for their losses - not his coaching?

This is the interesting part;

However, it is understood the Flames launched the workplace investigation after several Flames players complained to both the club and the Australian Basketball Players' Association about Heal's behaviour as head coach.

That could mean anything, like absolutely anything...

Reply #911613 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

Waterboy strikes again

Reply #911614 | Report this post


AssistantsPen  
Last year

this case or incident or whatever you want to call it is so common in this country and maybe others where NAME hires take over good coaches who do the work and have the expertise, state and national programs alone roll out the same old shit that has failed, disrupted and in some cases destroyed programs & clubs and yet these people without any success get hired time and time again.

Surely we never see Shane Heal on a sideline, but you never say never.

Reply #911624 | Report this post


Anon123  
Last year

Sydney Flames Media Statement 14 Feb

SYDNEY FLAMES STATEMENT
Tuesday, February 14, 2023
In early January 2023 multiple Sydney Flames players separately approached club officials with allegations of bullying by the Head Coach of the Sydney Flames, Shane Heal.

After consideration of the allegations and the risk to the health and safety of players and the club's obligations under the Work Health and Safety Act (2011), as well as the obligations we have under the Basketball Australia Member Protection Policy, it was determined by the Sydney Flames to carry out an independent, factual investigation of the allegations made and that Shane Heal be suspended whilst the investigation took place.

Several players subsequently approached the Australian Basketball Players Association (ABPA) who have provided counselling and support to the players concerned, for which the Club remains grateful.

The Club has remained resolute in allowing due process to be followed including limiting public comment to avoid any repercussions for the individuals involved. It will continue to adopt that approach.
The Sydney Flames has since been provided with the factual findings of the investigation.

The Sydney Flames maintain the current legal proceedings instigated by Mr Heal are simply an effort to delay or block the Sydney Flames from bringing its current process to a conclusion.

What sits at the heart of this matter is player safety and welfare. That is our sole concern at this time, and we will always maintain focus on that. The Sydney Flames see no merit in Mr Heal’s current legal manoeuvrings and will defend Mr Heal’s Court proceedings vigorously and to its full extent.

The Sydney Flames has issued this media release in circumstances where a number of media organisations have now obtained access to Court documents filed on behalf of Mr Heal in his proceedings or have asked Sydney Flames to comment on those proceedings.

No further comment will be made by The Sydney Flames at this time.

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Zodiac  
Last year

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Reply #912114 | Report this post


Ballman  
Last year

Not commenting on the Heal case specifically but

...you could argue that younger people today could view coaching as bullying.

If a coach says, "I need you to lose 2 kilos and improve your jump shot by shooting 1000 shots a day" and you don't do it and the coach keeps hassling you - is it bullying ?

There are lots of lazy players that a committed coach would want to get more out of them. we see some players in Australia making bad decisions on what they do outside of formal games and training.

Slippery slope if coaching becomes bullying, end up like the Australian cricket team who want a coach buddy and not a coach who actually wants to get the best out of them. e.g. Langer

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Dunkman  
Last year

Two little nuggets, Smith v Heal at twenty paces. I think I'll back the old bloke from the housing commission homes in Wollongong. Should be a bit light entertainment for a while.

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SP  
Last year

"Not commenting on the Heal case specifically"

Well then why are you making some random generalisation about 'younger people' and coaching in this thread? Weird.

"Should be a bit light entertainment for a while."

I don't think resolving bullying allegations is 'light entertainment', but obviously YMMV.

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Ballman  
Last year

@SP - Not talking about Heal as I don't know the circumstances, but I am talking to the potential that "bullying" claims could become a thing in sport and make teams almost un-coachable in the future.

in the white collar sector I have seen spurious bullying claims in organisations where a manager or co-worker called out someone for not meeting a target or hitting a deadline. That person then goes to HR complaining about bullying.

Bullying cannot be used as an excuse if your an employee and underperforming as long as you are treated in a professional and constructive manner.

You had Langer who was obviously a coach who focused in on player performance and got success, they replaced him on player revolt with a buddy style coach and they have gone on to perform woefully. Coaches are more like drill sergeants and some element of badgering is probably needed to get people to be the best version of themselves.

Coaches like Gleeson would sometimes yell at one player during a time out to try and get them to improve. I recall seeing it during the game. Today that player could say "I'm being bullied". Very slippery slope.

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koberulz  
Last year

So it's never happened, and this isn't an example of it, but you're worried about a slippery slope? What?

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Anonymightymouse  
Last year

"You had Langer who was obviously a coach who focused in on player performance and got success, they replaced him on player revolt with a buddy style coach and they have gone on to perform woefully."

I'm not sure one bad test is enough to say they've gone on to perform woefully. Langer obviously focused heavily on building culture and an expectation of doing things the right way as he looked to rebuild after 'sandpapergate'.

I think the jury is still out on whether it was the right decision to go to a different style of coaching when they did. Will be interesting to see how they bounce back in the second test though.

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Dunkman  
Last year

I'm only talking about Heal v Smith, nothing to do with bullying accusations.

Reply #912125 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Geez it becomes pretty hard for people to have an opinion or point to make if they get their throats cut immediately by some half-cocked shutdown of the person instead of engaging the merit of what is said.

"Well then why are you making some random generalisation about 'younger people' and coaching in this thread? Weird."

The poster didn't do that. It appeared pertinent and not a generalisation. It reads to me a post on the changing sensitivities in sport.

“So it's never happened, and this isn't an example of it, but you're worried about a slippery slope? What?”

Do you think it’s impossible for players to view coaching style as bullying whilst others do not?

The Heal case makes it a relevant topic, and it’s not inconceivable that what used to be acceptable is no longer acceptable today, and for some what is still acceptable is no longer acceptable to others.

For lack of any details, I wouldn’t be assuming anything. But as a general proposition, I wouldn’t naturally assume there’s clear-cut bullying going on, there could possibly be a whole grey area which goes into the sensitivities of people vs the natural sporting environment.

The white collar example is not an uncommon example or experience either.

Should try to be fairer and engage in the merits of what someone says.

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Luuuc  
Last year

For lack of any details, I wouldn't be assuming anything. But as a general proposition, I wouldn’t naturally assume there’s clear-cut bullying going on, there could possibly be a whole grey area which goes into the sensitivities of people vs the natural sporting environment.

I might not assume anything, but when multiple players who haven't had issues elsewhere suddenly all have issues with the same coach it certainly seems worth looking into, which is exactly what the Flames are trying to do.

Reply #912128 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

"I might not assume anything, but when multiple players who haven't had issues elsewhere suddenly all have issues with the same coach it certainly seems worth looking into, which is exactly what the Flames are trying to do."

And I absolutely agree with you, I don't think anyone has made a comment in direct contrast to that view.

But that doesn’t negate the points Ballman is fleshing out. Both points can be made in parallel.

Reply #912131 | Report this post


SP  
Last year

"It reads to me a post on the changing sensitivities in sport."

That's nice but if you don't know if it's relevant to this specific case, why mention it? We don't actually know what specific kinds of behaviour are being complained about here. It might not have anything to do with the 'changing sensitivities in sports'. To write a whole post on how some bullying allegations are not legitimate P.S I don't know if it applies in this case or not - yes, I find it weird.

Reply #912134 | Report this post


Hooping  
Last year

So the Flames won a couple of games at the end of the year and then some of the players complained? Am i missing something here?

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KET  
Last year

It's ironic that you mention weird, given it’s pretty weird to chastise someone for falling outside of a bizarrely strict interpretation of what’s on topic.

I would’ve thought you don’t need to be much of a genius to connect the dots.

The article references bullying, the poster then proceeds to post about how sensitivities can be a part of bullying allegations.

That’s not drawing a long bow by any stretch of the imagination, it’s smack bang on topic.

If we are stuck to discussing purely against the facts of a case of which we know very little, it’s a non-existent conversation which defeats the purpose of a forum.

Reply #912137 | Report this post


SP  
Last year

"If we are stuck to discussing purely against the facts of a case of which we know very little, it's a non-existent conversation which defeats the purpose of a forum"

Here's an interesting idea - for cases where we have little information (and we have *VERY LITTLE* info here), we don't actually comment on them until we know more about it especially if it's something serious like this. We're not just speculating about player signings, strategy, coaching decisions here. A message board is not an invitation to have a conversation about anything and everything. I think 'purely the facts' is a great approach to take here.

Reply #912141 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

How about, let's let people continue to talk about the relating topic and give opinions?

You know, like a forum. That’s the most interesting idea of all.

Perhaps you can make another topic about how you don’t like people discussing the topic?

See how much traction you get.

Reply #912148 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

It's within the realms of possibility that the players of today's generation have all been brought up being coddled and are overly sensitive even to constructive criticism.

It's within the realms of possibility that a coach can be a nepotistic prick of a human being who communicates poorly and thus loses the faith and the will of their players.

Anyone else want a go at offering some purely hypothetical scenarios, such as the 2 above?

It's true that we have very little info to work with, or at least very little that we're prepared to disclose here, and therefore opinions and speculation are about the only places we can go atm.
Personally I think there's limited value in that, but maybe someone will come up with some entertaining ones.

Reply #912151 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

That's nice but if you don't know if it's relevant to this specific case, why mention it?
Because in the absence of details about the news here, it's at least a remotely relevant point to discuss as a concept. I can split it off to a standalone discussion if people are sensitive to it being mixed in here.

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