Hoopscat24
Last year

antonius cleveland gone

Off to tel aviv... 36ers now on hunt for 2 imports

Topic #51243 | Report this topic


DennisRodmansHair  
Last year

Don't think its been officially confirmed. According to Olgun a buyout still needs to be agreed to.

Huge blow to the 36ers if the deal goes through.

Reply #920471 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last year

On the face of it I'd say it's not the absolute worst thing for the Sixers - he's a very solid import, but I'm not sure he's the type of player this squad needs... although I have little confidence that they'll sign someone significantly better either, even with all the cash freed up from Franks/Cleveland's contracts.

Reply #920472 | Report this post


Fairsy  
Last year

This is a terrible vote of no confidence in both CJ and management. Maybe they could do with more of a scorer but AC's defence will be sorely missed.

Reply #920473 | Report this post


Basket 91  
Last year

Maccabi Tel Aviv is a big club with big $$$.

Will free up $$$ with buyout.

Two imports to come.

Reply #920474 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

Didn't him and Franks have the same agent?
It’s a loss but not that bad, frees Sixers to bring in great point guard and a defensive three and d man.

Reply #920477 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Some big bonus $$ coming Adelaide's way, the question is can they spend it wisely?

Reply #920479 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

How much?

Reply #920480 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Last year

Fairsy

"This is a terrible vote of no confidence in both CJ and management."

No it isn't. The guy is probably going to get paid twice the amount he is getting if not more. No one is turning that down

"Maybe they could do with more of a scorer but AC's defence will be sorely missed"

For someone that won defensive player of the year twice I found his defense terrible at times. If I had to pick Darryl McDonald or Darnell Mees defense or Cleveland I would be picking Mee/Dmac every time. I have never seen someone that apparently is so good give up so many straight line drives. Also plenty of times he would go for a steal instead of just staying in front of players. Then he would get into foul trouble with his gambling defense and when he was in foul trouble he would still reach in. His basketball IQ wasn't really there. His athleticism was fantastic to watch but I think he is replaceable

Reply #920486 | Report this post


Hendo8888  
Last year

You'd take Darnell Mee's defence over basically every player in NBL history, so that's a bit of an unfair benchmark to hold him against

Reply #920487 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Well 36ers are ruined

Reply #920488 | Report this post


sixtiesrockstar  
Last year

Big loss as Clevelend played with heart and for his team, not something a lot of imports do.
Does give Sixers plenty of cash to get a top level guard now though.

Reply #920489 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I'm with SixersFan I don't think losing AC is as big of a deal as it might look. Yes he was our team MVP but on a bad team last season and his effort and supposed great defence were found wanting at times. More of a complimentary player who doesn't want the responsibility of being 'the man'.

Cleveland does seem a nice guy though as our own Camel innocently described in their meeting at Arndale last season and wish him all the best at Tel Aviv.

Reply #920493 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

Said this was going to happen. As soon as they committed to Wiley AC was going to move.

Reply #920494 | Report this post


Uncle Dre  
Last year

is this club ever not in turmoil? Owner will grab the cash for sure.

Reply #920496 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last year

Zodiac, I had the opposite impression of AC, and interesting that you seem to take a different perspective as to when Adelaide almost lost Franks last year, to this kind of scenario.

Would often take the initiative to score when nothing was happening, played with heart when the energy was low, and to me was always putting in effort.

I feel like lots of players looked fed up with CJs coaching last year, and that could explain the wider problem.

Huge loss for me, and puts CJ in the spotlight of picking a new import.

If Adelaide's off season was only average, then surely now it is bad.

Don't know exact circumstances, but if as simple as an offer too good to refuse, then so be it I suppose.

Reply #920497 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

I feel like Adelaide took a "less is more" direction this time, forgetting what it was like the previous years having had “less” (tent wise) and still missing the finals.

They should be going for “smarter is better” approach.

With that said, I don't think they’d be cutting down as much $$$ wise as we think - Humphries would be more expensive than DJ surely?

To me, smarter is something like:

You need:
1 star big
1 star guard
1 really good wing

1 good big that’ll be capable of carrying defensive burden
1 good two way guard that shoots at a decent click

1 decent “do the dirty work” big off the bench
1 good scorer off the bench
1 wing that can cover 2-4 at a stretch

2 younger guys that are perfectly happy to put in max effort to small inconsistent minutes.

That way you have consistent 8man rotation, mix of defence and scoring and balance

Reply #920498 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Talent wise

Reply #920499 | Report this post


Ski 61  
Last year

I wonder what they do with import now. Do they bring back IC now that there's more money? Two solid imports? 1 really good import and an open slot?

Very disappointing to hear the news but there can be positives to everything

Reply #920500 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last year

SKI 61, It depends on if the situation was straight forward as him getting a great offer, or if it reflects wider issues, as to if we can draw a positive out of it, IMO.

Q Anon, do you think this a culture issue within the team, or do you believe it's more to do with ACs relationship with Franks only?

Reply #920501 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

More like AC's pre-existing relationship with Wiley. No DD was done.

Reply #920503 | Report this post


Mathew  
Last year

Q Anon can you elaborate on the Wiley Cleveland relationship?

Reply #920504 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Zodiac, I had the opposite impression of AC, and interesting that you seem to take a different perspective as to when Adelaide almost lost Franks last year, to this kind of scenario.


Well Franks is the better player when switched on and none of us knew he was going to pout throughout the season after missing out on that Euro contract and secondly even with Franks & AC both here they didn't bring us much in the way of wins so I'm not all that fussed about AC leaving, we looked like being spoon contenders with him anyway so can't get any worse than that without him.

Reply #920510 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

"More like AC's pre-existing relationship with Wiley. No DD was done."

Q Anon, that's a pretty damning indictment of the club if true. How confident are you about that? What's the beef between Cleveland and Wiley?

Reply #920514 | Report this post


Magpie Murray  
Last year

Probably explains why no AC social media post since 4/6 when they were flooding us with his highlights reel.

Reply #920519 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

This sucks I was looking forward to another season of AC's D.

He is as good a defender as we have had since Mee, his value is hard to measure and I think will be sorely missed. But I am partial to defenders like Marcus Smart (also a huge loss to the C's) and Damian Martin.

I don't think this type of skillset is easily replaceable.

I don't think the season is completely lost IF we can use the money saved (or gained???) and get a gun PG and wing.

Thankfully there is still time and CJ is in the right place (although SL is over) for recruiting a replacement.

If the money is good, any chance of a Nick Kay?

Reply #920525 | Report this post


Knowall  
Last year

Does this open door for DJ

Reply #920528 | Report this post


Mathew  
Last year

For god sake DJ is done, he won't be back and nor should he be brought back

Reply #920529 | Report this post


Hooper  
Last year

There is no issue between Wiley and Cleveland, how ridiculous.

Reply #920536 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Last year

I agree with Hooper there is no issue between Cleveland and Wiley. Cleveland left for a huge pay cheque that everyone would have done

Reply #920537 | Report this post


Spinner  
Last year

The same crap every year. Sixers can't recruit as a rule, but every now and again we get a Cleveland, Farley, Mee or similar, but then can’t hold on to them. The last couple of months this site has announced imports left right and centre to every other club. But like usual, we are sitting on our hands. Like every other year, we are urged "come on members! Don’t be fair weather followers. Spend your hard earned dollars on renewed season tickets. Then we will tell you the second tier team we are putting on the floor."

Reply #920538 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

There was genuine excitement about a second AC year, now it just feels shot to pieces.

Adelaide's not known for picking good imports, that’s why they had to steal two of the best known quantities.

Reply #920539 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

The same crap every year. Sixers can't recruit as a rule, but every now and again we get a Cleveland, Farley, Mee or similar, but then can't hold on to them.


To be fair, is AC's departure a fault of the Sixers?

If so then you would also have to blame United for White and Landale, Perth for Kay, Sydney for Cooks and Martin and so on.

AC is good, we know it, the league knows it and where he is going knows it.

Our Salary cap is and has always been a ceiling when going up against European, Israeli and even Japanese B leagues.

We just have to hope that the front office can put together 2 good imports for this season. Sorry but I can only hope.

Reply #920541 | Report this post


joshuapending  
Last year

AC was the only thing I liked from last year. This year will go to hell unless we nail the imports and i'm not confident based on previous history. So basically just like every other sixers season for the last 20 years at least.

Reply #920545 | Report this post


Hooper  
Last year

"Spinner" - C'mon man, slow down.

Reply #920547 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

The same crap every year.

In light of there being so many reality TV shows nowadays following professional sporting teams around for a season behind the scenes on the various streaming services if there was ever a club to film it would be the Sixers since there would be unlimited drama providing content for decades to come.

Reply #920549 | Report this post


Observer  
Last year

AC leaving,for the bigger pay packet, nothing we can do ,can't match it.
I hope we find some reasonable imports ,if not recycled imports that played last season,there’s a few who could suit up ,Josh magnetite ,Trey Kell and Browne might be available? Only 70 days til season start ,still time to find right one .
People are starting to write off Sixers ,team is trying to put a team together.
It sucks but just see who imports we sign and go from there.

Reply #920550 | Report this post


NBLTigers  
Last year

Sixers are in-trouble. There isn't enough time for them to fix their roster. Good luck to them.

Reply #920551 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

My position on this:

Why announce that Franks and Cleveland have 2 year deals when they don't. That feels a little bit underhanded to the fan base. Just say its a 1 +1.

If I knew that Franks was gone within a week of the season finishing the club did too

If I knew that Cleveland would want to leave when they signed Wiley the club did too.

An interesting question to ask is have Franks and Cleveland been getting paid, with their costs covered too , whilst they have been in the off season.

Pre season starts this week.


Reply #920558 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Last year

Q Anon why do you keep spinning shit for?

"If I knew that Cleveland would want to leave when they signed Wiley the club did too."

Reply #920559 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

If you know something to the contrary then say it. I advised Sotto was going , Franks was going and Cleveland was going too if they signed Wiley. I didn't bother posting the Wiley signing as it was known months ago by many. So far 4/4

Reply #920560 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

Just to be clear Q Anon, you think Cleveland would've stayed if Wiley wasn't signed?

Also, do you think its specifically about Wiley and nothing to do with Franks leaving? (They share an agent and were pitched as a packaged deal before last season as I recall)

Reply #920561 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Last year

Q Anon you are either trolling or are just dumb. I think it is a bit of both. Cleveland left because of getting paid twice the amount he is getting here. Anyone with half a brain could understand that but you can't for some reason.

Reply #920562 | Report this post


Q Anon  
Last year

@beantown Cleveland was content here and saw a long term future with Adelaide. I believe the Wiley signing triggered him to look elsewhere. He has the same agent as Franks and look how that played out. If AC was looking for alternate deals he would have played the same game as Franks. However, he formally opted in. He was not looking to leave.

@SixersFan so you know what Cleveland was on and what he has been offered? Please share. Remember Randall left the 36ers for a million dollar contract in Turkey that lasted a couple of games. Euro deals aren't always what they are presented. There is a long line of players who have signed deals and not got what they signed, if anything. Australia offers almost guaranteed money and a lifestyle that plenty of players prefer. Thats why you see so many want to stay in Australia or return.

Reply #920563 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

So far 4/4


You've got some good info no doubt but you were wrong about the 36ers new assistant coach having a name well known to Sixers fans, it was Craig Simpson from SEM.

Cleveland was content here and saw a long term future with Adelaide


The 36ers can't compete with the budgets of EuroLeague teams.

Reply #920564 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

Yeah that was my impression too, that Cleveland really wanted to be here. To be honest, I was hoping we'd hear that the Sixers were extending his contract in the off-season.

He's literally the most exciting two-way player I've watched in Adelaide since at least Childress! (Maybe moreso because he's in his prime whereas Childress wasn't)

He's talented, plays hard, leaves it all on the floor for the team, shows passion for the game, respects his opponents and isn't a knucklehead off the court.

He was the main reason I signed up for another membership, even though I knew we weren't likely to challenge for the title.

I don't know how much Maccabi is offering, but I would do everything in my power to keep Cleveland here on a multi-year deal if I were the owner!

I'll be absolutely gutted if Cleveland walks away.

Reply #920565 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Last year

Beantown I disagree with your "respects his opponents". Sixers were struggling to win at one stage and they finally got a win against a bottom ranked Brisbane and he and Franks went up to the Brisbane bench trash talking them. That is weak as in my opinion. Furthermore if I remember correctly he was constantly trash talking opponents and often coming up second best against them for example Brown Jr.

Reply #920567 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I don't know how much Maccabi is offering, but I would do everything in my power to keep Cleveland here on a multi-year deal if I were the owner!


It doesn't matter what we offer NBL teams can't compete with EuroLeague teams financially. He was said to be on $400k+ at the Sixers, they've probably offered him twice that amount.

EuroLeague teams are notorious for buying up and hoarding talent, look at Maccabi just last season bought Jarell Martin a star big in the NBL at the Kings and just sat him on the bench.

Reply #920568 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

Yeah he did talk a bit of trash, for sure. Probably I chose the wrong way to put that. Its more that, while he played hard out on the floor, he seemed respectful of opponents after the game was over. I recall him congratulating a few guys after games in which he had gone after them pretty hard during the game.

I guess I feel like he generally had a good balance between playing with a bit of fire, but not going over the top and doing something stupid/ embarassing like, for example, Sobey used to do.

I think my point still stands, though, that Cleveland is about as good a player as the Sixers have had since Childress left the building. On the current team, he is basically the only sure thing we have to get excited about.

Other than that, as fans we are banking on some long shots to pan out in order to enjoy the season:
1) hoping Humphries can finally put it all together;
2) Cadee has a late career renaissance;
3) Galloway and Marshall exceed most people's expectations
4) Wiley mk 2 turns out to be a cross between Trimmingham and Childress (lol)

Reply #920569 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

"...just last season bought Jarell Martin a star big in the NBL at the Kings and just sat him on the bench."

That might be exactly why we could convince Cleveland to stay here with a better deal! Why would he want to sit on the bench for Maccabi, when he could be a star here?

Combine more playing opportunities with a better contract and maybe you could convince him to stay? Offer him a 3 year deal at $500-600k or something? Teams like Sydney, Melbourne and Perth would be paying more than that for some of their key players wouldn't they?

I know the Sixers don't have as deep pockets as some, but their owner isn't poor either! I'm pretty confident this year's team is a lot cheaper than the last one!

Reply #920570 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Offer him a 3 year deal at $500-600k or something? Teams like Sydney, Melbourne and Perth would be paying more than that for some of their key players wouldn't they?


Not sure I would agree in locking up AC for that kind of money when you can get the same production out of a much cheaper fresh import.

I don't think so as far as I'm aware there's likely only 2-3 players in the league on more money than that Cotton at Perth, last deal was $700k+ p.a. but probably had to take a discount to get the new 3 year deal last year and Baynes at Brisbane on $750k + NBL top up money making it $950k+. Delly was on the same deal as Baynes last time and perhaps is on something similar again now.

Reply #920572 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Q Anon why do you keep spinning shit for?

Q Anon has been on the money recently, Hoops should be thanking him.

Reply #920573 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last year

If Martin had been better than the players who were playing more time, starting he wouldn't have sat on the bench. Yes he earned a lot of money but he just wasn’t good enough. Euro league is one tough competition.

Reply #920574 | Report this post


Spinner  
Last year

The main issue behind my post above, is that we always appear to wait too long before setting the Team for the coming season. Every year we appear to be the last to fill a squad. This is why I commented that every other club are making announcements of new signings and we are still trying to make decisions. By the time we start being active, it's panic stations because most of the good players have been signed and we end up having to settle on what’s left. Not sometimes...….every year!

Reply #920576 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

Well to be fair to the owner this time, he did settle 2/3 imports pretty quick last year giving Franks & AC both 2 year deals right out of the gate.

Reply #920577 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

What about Barry Brown, Derrick Walton and Xavier Cooks last season? Surely they were all on $500k absolute minimum? There's plenty of guys earning more than $500k per now. I seem to recall complaints that even DJ was getting that kind of money a few years ago!

What imports do you think we are likely to get for less than $500k? I'm doubting many would be as good all round players as Cleveland. I'd rather have a guy I know I can count on, who will build chemistry with the team around him over a few seasons.

Frankly, if we're that strapped for cash, they shouldn't have bothered signing Wiley! Just start Galloway at the 4 and go with Cleveland and a good combo guard as imports! I reckon that'd be a better team anyway.

Reply #920583 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I don't think those salary estimates are right and I've certainly never heard of DJ getting anywhere near $500k a season. Last season the 36ers had the most expensive roster in the league and the talk was Franks was the highest paid at $450+ followed by Cleveland at $400k+ and then McCarron at $350k+. DJ was in the last year of a contract he signed in 2020 so might've been on around $300k or so.

There was an article in News Corp early last season that gave some estimates of players salaries for the previous season/this past season that seemed a bit on the high side as likely leaked by an agent.

https://www.hoops.com.au/forum/50520-salaries-of-nbl-players/

Reply #920584 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

"Maccabi just last season bought Jarell Martin a star big in the NBL at the Kings and just sat him on the bench."

"Yes he earned a lot of money but he just wasn't good enough."


No. He played 19 minutes per game in Euroleague, which was sixth highest on the team. Ian Clark averaged the sixth highest minutes for Sydney, no one is suggesting he just sat on the bench or wasn't good enough.

Reply #920585 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

"Last season the 36ers had the most expensive roster in the league"

That's most expensive as per what counted against the cap, not necessarily what was actually paid.

Reply #920586 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last year

Cool, thanks for the link Zodiac, hadn't seen that thread before! I would definitely be fine with paying Cleveland a 3 year deal at $500k per.

Adams, Goulding, Martin, Harvey, Reath, Munford, Broekhoff all in that vicinity according to that article. I don't think any of those guys is more valuable than Cleveland.

Reply #920587 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last year

Official now, the buyout has been paid in full:

https://nbl.com.au/news/36ers-release-cleveland

The article finishes by stating "the 36ers will be making significant roster announcements in the coming days".

Reply #920777 | Report this post




You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.



Close ads
Little Streaks - The fun and interactive good-habits app designed especially for kids.
Serio: Tourism photography and videography

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 12:51 am, Thu 25 Apr 2024 | Posts: 968,026 | Last 7 days: 754