Breakers had better be cautious and not drop this one, though I must say in both losses this season they haven't got many decisions go their way, even at home the cooking seamed to go to bullets.
Sixers have had better play of late and certainly look like they are fighting hard, DJV has added more than I thought he could.
Breakers to lose and I can’t see it happening. NZ by 8.
Two months ago
No shame in dropping this one for Adelaide but more interested in progress. Showed signs of change last game so would be disappointing if the performance mirrored previous problems. Should be no complacency after a single win and have to keep driving change if the need for change has truly been identified.
Two months ago
Yes agree on the "hospital passes". That waste of space McCarron dribbles around in circles, points as though he knows anything and then tries to pass to anyone as the shot clock is about to expire. Worst point guard in the league! Imagine getting paid $300k per year being so bad at your job!
Two months ago
It appears a few of the clubs have beefed up their back courts this year, with a number of teams now providing duel playmaking guard combos.
In this game NZ provide two of the best in WMW and PJC. Both can attack and will provide Delaney, Chatman and Lamb and endless supply of open looks. They are playing as a team already.
Adelaide will struggle defensively to contain Breakers but expecting some help with their offense from officiating.
Despite some dodgy officiating expecting Breakers by double digits.
I would like to know the all-time head to head between the Sixers and Breakers as it seems like they've always had the wood over us right from their very first game in the NBL in 2003.
Even last season when we came back from the US after the win over Phoenix Suns our second home game back they pumped us by like 27 or something. The Breakers just seem like they've always been a bogey team for us right from Day 1.
Obviously NZB have a good team this season and we don't plus being played over there I think this game has the potential to be a massacre. I hope not but could see NZB winning by 15+.
He was a very good player under a VERY GOOD coach.
That's the thing McCarron was never a "very good" player just a 'good' player at Melbourne because he was playing in a stacked starting five.
MM's last season at United their championship season in 2020-21:
9.5 ppg @ 43.6% (30.8% 3p), 5.2r, 5.1a, 1.4s
Same argument people used against DJ. DJ would get paid what he was on if he left so wasn't over paid in Adelaide. McCarron was highly recruited , perhaps Adelaide paid 30-50k more to get him here. With the information and players available at the time it was great pick up to get a building block of a new look squad.
I think he has looked a lot better in all facets of the game next to DJ at the 2.
Kings looked at Mccaron, he was outside their budget, that tells you a lot. It's turning out to be the better locals you have the better you perform, so I understand the Mccaron signing but his cost is in the same realms as a quality import point guard, Mccaron isn’t an Adams, Crawford, etc, his best spot was always the two, three. Gleeson and the smart coaches build their imports around their locals and nearly all go point guards. Yes I know Norton and Martin are point guards but Cotton is an all round guard. WMW is best Aussie point guard in nbl and NZ still went and got PJC.
AC was on 400k USD that is over 600k AUD as a comparison. McCarron isn't on headline NBL import money. You may strike it lucky with an untested import out of college or G League but that rarely works out. Not saying it cant just its unlikely.
Adelaide couldn't afford to retain Clark. Bogut made comment about Clark's cost when Adelaide signed him.
The question for Adelaide fans is would you rather have McCarron and a decent import or say Ben Ayre and a game changing import. Both strategies have there pros and cons
Two months ago
I think that McCarron is being made to look worse by the system, and it has drained him of energy and confidence. Like they say, if you do the wrong thing over and over again, it doesn't matter how hard you try. McCarron is a highly valuable local player in the eyes of most, and just saying he's not very good or great without further context is far too simplistic.
Zodiac, what's his stats got to do with it? He was literally the starting point guard on a championship team. Adelaide thought they were getting the same thing, but he's always been a situational utility.
As much as his criticism over the years is valid, I still feel like any point guard has been made to look bad in the current system that CJ has been failing miserably with for the three years he's been coaching.
I don't think he has declined that much, but I do think he's been worn down and is absolutely lacking in confidence.
Just saying, I think there is a failure on both parts here.
OK, moving on from mccarron...
Breakers should win and this is probably a stepping stone to building momentum but they still have a lot to refine.
The duel PGs are tripping over each other at times and most are looking hesitant on the jumper. In saying that rustubvious(?) added a nice variation of skills at 3 and I hope he gets some more minutes as the season progresses. And mody doesn't lose faith come finals like he did rupert
Picking them by 10-15 but more looking for signs of their offence gelling and their 5 rotation being effective
Zodiac, what's his stats got to do with it?
Because I was responding to hoopie's post that he was a 'very good' player before, he wasn't he was a good player but nothing special. The 36ers got themselves into a bidding war with the Kings for him and they pulled out when Jaylen Adams became available, leaving us holding the can.
I dare say we probably got a bit sucked in by the Kings big interest in him, not realising they would be putting significant talent around him to lift him up where as we were probably hoping he had a lot more to give and that he would become a star.
MM's stats at the Sixers are not too dissimilar to that 2021 championship season at United either.
21-22: 7.6 ppg @ 35.5% (26.4% 3p), 5.3r, 6.9a, 1.9s
22-23: 7.8 ppg @ 48.7% (18.2% 3p), 5.0r, 3.8a, 1.6s
23-24 (so far): 8.1 ppg @ 43.5% (43.8% 3p), 6.1r, 2.4a, 0.7s
McCarron has always been a complementary piece who happened to perfectly slot in to United's starting five, after leaving Cairns when many questioned Melbourne's signing of him, yet the Sixers foolishly paid him like a superstar.
I feel for Sixers fans but Kelly deserves it for resurrecting JvG's tarnished NBL career. What an idiot.
Two months ago
"21-22: 7.6 ppg @ 35.5% (26.4% 3p), 5.3r, 6.9a, 1.9s
22-23: 7.8 ppg @ 48.7% (18.2% 3p), 5.0r, 3.8a, 1.6s
23-24 (so far): 8.1 ppg @ 43.5% (43.8% 3p), 6.1r, 2.4a, 0.7s"
For someone whose primary ability is playmaking, to go from 6.9 assists per game to 2.4 is an enormous drop
Breakers giving dumb fouls in the bonus and disconnected on defence. They're keeping the sixers in this although both teams playing great offence
I'm amazed by the improvement in Humphries... or a you say dunkman maybe it's the consistent minutes
Two months ago
This is the best Sixers win for sometime. Very small sample size but it seems DJV has transformed this team. His shooting was sublime and at critical moments. Can we sign this guy beyond this season??
Humphries ulta impressive too, super active in multiple areas. Wiley turned the ball over way too much but great on the offensive glass. Mccarron couldn't seem to handle the extra pressure in the last couple of minutes. He can't seem to do much very well at all.
Much better rotations from CJ too in the last few games.
Breakers really struggling with their 5 and lacking an SG. The 3 x PGs is not working. Their game is based on PG driving off screens but they need a straight out shooter to kick out to
Strange Glidden got no minutes and rustubvius minimal but both good from 3
Sixers were fantastic. Wiley was good, some of those turnovers were very unlucky, Humphries was huge, keep playing like this and he's at the Olympics. DJV has given them belief and massive buckets down the stretch, Cadee also down the stretch was good. Every one else did well in what they had to do, Nice to CJ get excited and coach very well.
Breakers got get a five man, to small. Offensively they got scorers everywhere, they just miss to many easy buckets and free throws. Defensively not a patch on last season team, Mathiang, Delaney no way as good as those two imports last season. Moady can coach but got cut the screaming out, if Cheatham is badly injured and misses a few they could struggle.
That was probably the best Sixers win in years. Played with poise and purpose from the get go and kept ourselves within striking distance to allow DJV to do what he does best hit some big hype 3's. Humphries was great the movement and footwork from him hasn't been this good in years. Hopefully not a bad injury for Kell he looked good until then too.
A few concerns for the Breakers, the Cheatham injury, Mathiang looking utterly useless again and PJC looks a bit too much like a smaller Barry Brown for my liking. Bit of a chucker. WMW really needs to lift.
DJV channeled his inner Sydney Kings daggers today, jesussssss.
MM tried his best to throw the win away.
Wiley good energy, benefited from Cheatham injury...
I love Humphries, everything is always better through him.
Dech decided to resemble someone that can shoot again which was nice.
Far better offensive movement.
What's the deal with Kell? Hopefully will be ok for next Saturday?
That win was HUGE to staying alive. Absolutely huge.
Obviously some major issues for Adelaide with executing a press breaker and presenting to the ball when someone is doubled, but apart from that shakiness it was an incredibly well-executed game.
As Dunkman said, a lot of the earlier turnovers are things that will get cleaned up as the group gels (Wiley also needs to chill a little with the ball), but all of a sudden, with a genuine shooting threat who can also distribute, the offence looks organised.
Frontcourt depth is still an issue, you hold your breath when Humphries and Wiley are on the bench, defensively as much as anything.
Great never say die win from the Sixers. For three quarters, the Breakers kept threatening to break the game open, but the Sixers kept competing and then DJ showed his worth by breaking the game open in the 4th.
Are Humphries and DJ good mates? I just noticed they were hanging out prior to last weeks home games and Humphries confidence seems to have skyrocketed as soon as DJ joined the team.
Both were dominant in this game and man has it been a long time since I could say that about any Sixer!
I think this team has turned the corner. They might actually be able to compete for the playoffs. DJ just being on the floor opens so much up for his team mates.
What happened to Cheatham? Was it the clash for the loose ball with Wiley in the 4th quarter? Did he do an ankle? It would be a shame if he is out for awhile, because he is a gun!
Liekwise, I thought Casey Franks said Kell was ok when he returned to the bench, but he didn't get back in the game. Hope its nothing major, because he has been solid on both ends so far.
I think they ran far better rotations, it was a lot more limited. I guess it costs Marshall etc minutes.
They seemed to play Humphries and Wiley longer - I wonder how long til they can get a backup big?
There are 3 things that scare me: 1) they get tired - they move a lot, 2) they get injured, or 3) they get into foul trouble.
When they're off I’m even more scared because we look a lot worse with them off.
A decent backup big hopefully provides a lot of insurance.
"Are Humphries and DJ good mates? I just noticed they were hanging out prior to last weeks home games and Humphries confidence seems to have skyrocketed as soon as DJ joined the team."
Played together for the Aus U17 team in 2014 and dominated. Both made all-first team and Aus won silver, losing narrowly to USA in final with DJ almost carrying them to the win in that game.
Two months ago
really good win today, while vasilijevic hasn't been completely knockdown in every game just his presence on offence opens everything up for everybody else even if he isn’t knocking them down. Tonight he did and offensively, aside from our turnovers v double teams/their trap and Wiley’s unforced ones, we looked really good. Defence was great but definitely agree we need to do more pressure work at training, last few minutes were stressful. Isaac looking awesome, Wiley and vasilijevic contributing really well hope we keep playing this way.
I thought that might have been the case with DJ and Isaac as both are similar in age. I'm wondering if Isaac was a big part of why DJ chose to come to the Sixers too? Could the Sixers have perhaps even had an inkling DJ might become available and that made them willing to cut Franklin so early?
Sixersfan, they could have bet on Sydney not wanting to disrupt their roster perhaps?
Zodiac, I really don't know, unless there was some clause that made it cheaper to cut him before the season started? Everything about the Franklin signing and cutting is weird! I would love to know what was going on there!
Zodiac, yeah that never made sense to me either! Why would we give a guy like Franklin some kind of crazy guarantee like that? Its just hard to believe!
Sixersfan, there's definitely no room to get complacent! If the Sixers can win three of those five I'll be pretty happy!
Two months ago
Always good to see a win...………BUT McCarron seriously! 27:55 on court for 3 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists and 4 turnovers. Starting point guard, not a rooky coming off the bench playing 5 minutes. The starting poin5 guard playing nearly 28 minutes. Dribbled around in circles for at least 10 of those minutes. Awesome!!
Olgun said 36ers and DJV had agreed to terms weeks ago which justified Kings being annoyed. That times to pre-season...
I thought it was an interesting comment that nobody ever posted about!
I'm not surprised in the slightest because it involved the 36ers front office. Also not surprised that comment never made it here because no one seemed to be able to read between the lines.
In the original thread about Sydney's press release we did both speculate the tone of it suggested the Kings were annoyed and wanted to make a point publically as if Adelaide had gone about the process the wrong way. It wasn't addressed by anyone else except us because the rest were either getting sidetracked being for/against the Kings' complaint or debating whether contractually the Sixers were able to do so rather than focussing on the broader issue being etiquette between clubs.
What makes it even messier and weird is the messaging.
We are looking for a 1, plus Tyler Cook is too expensive.
No, we are now looking for a 4/5 because of money.
We sign a 2 (that's probably expensive).
That means no additional import.
Scratch that, we now want a backup import 5, can’t afford expensive.
Now we reach out to Xavier Cooks (fair enough, worth the due diligence) and Tyler Cooks (wait, wasn’t he too expensive?).
A week later, zero news.
bretts the man
Two months ago
Wow 36 ers finally go something right by getting on front foot signing the player they needed and what DJ needed ,where he is going to put his name and Humprties names right in running for Olympic selection .
Now the the mighty saintly Kings and Cats and supporters still have reason to dump on 36 era club .
Well it is happened and going to breathe life into Adelaide and the NBL league with 36ers being competitive,
Two months ago
I got both my tips wrong last night. Zylan's really made the game change but credit to Adelaide and CJ Bruton getting the win.
Cairns was always a risky tip since they haven’t played an NBL game for weeks. They almost won but giving Harvey the last shot was a major mistake by Adam Forde.
"Olgun said 36ers and DJV had agreed to terms weeks ago which justified Kings being annoyed. That times to pre-season."
KET - this is an outright lie and no wonder if Olgun posted this he has been losing all the credibility he had left with many in the NBL. FYI - he has no access to MU and hope others fallow the suit. Honestly, he should be titled the Kings' mouthpiece. If this is actually your doing, then you are a tool.
The question you should ask yourself, why the 36ers would be interested in a player when they had their roster full in the pre-season. The spot opened just before the season when the search started. Also DJV was contracted by the Wizards and was getting ready to go into the camp - he had no interest in anything else which he made abundantly clear.
I certainly hope DJV will eventually come out with the timeline and his description of events that took place (he looked visibly distressed with events), but at the moment you can listen to that BS of the podcast Bogut posted in which he certainly explains a lot about things by his admission he has NO knowledge of. From what I heard, DJV was approached by several NBL teams after he was waived by the Wizards, first checking on his welfare and then to inquiry about his intentions, so that BS about pre-season is just that. Those who are involved in this know the facts, the Kings are just annoyed that they lost the plot and a really good player. Now when Cooks is available, the story changed - they would make necessary arrangements to bring him back - what happened they were happy with their roster. Just confirms their credibility in all this (or lack of).
Vasiljevic was on an exhibit 10 contract, there is a decent chance of getting waived. If Adelaide was keeping tabs on him and letting him know what their offer would be then that's smart.
They would have known there was a chance Sydney would match their offer as per the terms of DJ's release, but they at least gave themselves the chance to get him if he was waived and now they've reaped the rewards.
Actually they didn't have to match the offer, just activate his old contract, which they opted not to do. you can check this out with the NBLPA. Their statement that they got annoyed that DJ already agreed with the 36ers is just amateurish moment - why would someone come back without an offer? DJV played safe as he knew he'd play either for Sydney or Adelaide.
My beef here is with BS statement that this was in play long time ago and DJV played Sydney to get out of his contract. Certainly if this information is in the public domain then DJV has a case to file for grievance against Olgun since this is considered slander.
Tend to agree AlphabetA. Olgdovan saying Kings will do whatever it takes to get Cooks but wouldnt for DJ shows someone isn't being transparent. Cooks' agent is Moldovan.
Bogut suggests that DJ may not have understood the ramifications of the Exhibit 10 deal. In any event if there was a chance he might get cut then the Kings could have added their 10th man with clear intentions that if DJ or Cooks became available that 10th man was getting cut.
Bogut suggests to me that they expected DJ to hang around G League at minimum to give the NBA his best shot. Plenty have played NBA that way. For DJ to to become available 5 games into the season wasn't expected.
There is some beef that DJ came straight to Adelaide to train and didnt return to Sydney. Adelaide played this one well it must be said. A long time since Ive said that about the front office.
"Cairns was always a risky tip since they haven't played an NBL game for weeks. They almost won but giving Harvey the last shot was a major mistake by Adam Forde."
If you watch the vision, Forde slid his feet pretty well, I'm not sure he's to blame.
Q Anon - the Kings are driving a narrative that DJV did this on purpose and trying really hard to discredit him. DJV was well aware of ramifications of signing an E10 contract and he knew there was a good chance of getting cut - the thing many don't get is the timing of his waiving - he got cut before the camp and by his admission he was promised just that - the camp participation. Now one can argue that he was silly believing he would make a roster but all he wanted was a chance, an opportunity. Nobody can predict the future, but that timing was bad, the Wizards broke the promise so I don't blame DJV for starting looking for other options - why staying on another promise when the first one wasn't fulfilled? I believe he might have stayed if he attended the camp and got cut with Cooks, but...
And for Bogut - if he says 'I don't know much about it' and keeps explaining what he thinks making it factual, that's very poor. If that was Luc I'd believe, but not Bogut. He actually made me laugh when he said he talked to the Wizards and they were disappointed which is really strange as these decisions are made basically daily, so again Bogut's BS
Agree that Sydney are driving a narrative, it looks bad for them from the outside.
The NBL does need to do something here because what is the incentive for NBL clubs to release guys to try out in the NBA?
Next time this happens for an NBL club they may well have second thoughts as commercially it's all risk for the club and all reward for the player.
There needs to be a rule or agreement that returning players are treated differently in squad capacity or salary cap. I think the Kings did the right thing by DJ to release him but its bitten them. Same with Cooks who signed a "3" year deal but right now played a few games outside the NBL season and is a FA.
From memory there was some messing about with Magnay in Brisbane before he was formally released to NBA. If the NBL wants to push this idea that the league is a gateway competition then some structure should be in place to handle these situations.
I agree there is an effective duopoly on NBL speculation/rumourmill between Olgun and Logue but that's just how it is, can’t do much about it until NBL becomes more mainstream.
I think we have to remember that guys of a certain standard sign contracts with NBL clubs with both full well understanding the aim is to never prevent that player from a better NBA/top euro opportunity.
Ultimately, if you try to get in the way of that, people won’t sign with you to begin with. Doesn’t matter about outs etc. There’s a tacit expectation and convention, and ultimately that helps NBL clubs secure top tier talent.
If the NBL clubs go "nup not letting this happen again", that top tier talent probably won’t sign in the NBL or with certain clubs to begin with.
So it’s all well and good for clubs to huff about it now, but this risk is always part of the deal (conventionally) from the very beginning which the club had multiple years of enjoyment and success. If you ask the question “would you take x player now for a few years knowing they will leave for NBA and maybe return to a diff NBL club later should they desire, would you still like to sign this player?”
They’d have still said yes, emphatically.
That's why the contracts are signed in the first place - it is not about understanding, it is about the terms of the contract. If there was no chance for DJ to return to NBL, Sydney wouldn't have a clause to retain him in the contract. They opted not to use it, so end of the story. They are cheap cunts who like bragging about being below the cap so they can cry me a river, nobody cares - at least the Wildcats supporters enjoyed this.
This is very hard to regulate and shouldn't be left to interpretations and 'understanding' - a guy goes away, plays a few games, gets cut - what he is supposed to do - be understandable and say 'hey I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings so I'll sit this year out' or 'hell I'll go where I can play and get paid', nobody can stop him/them to come back and make a living. Cooks is lucky he will make some money regardless (read somewhere his first year which was guaranteed will bring him 1.7 mill). As long as there's transparency I don't see a problem with players coming back and ending up with a different team as long as their contractual team doesn't retain his rights.
"The NBL does need to do something here because what is the incentive for NBL clubs to release guys to try out in the NBA?"
The NBL doesn't need to do anything. The process played out as it was supposed to:
"If there was no chance for DJ to return to NBL, Sydney wouldn't have a clause to retain him in the contract. They opted not to use it, so end of the story."
I disagree - the process didnt play out as it should , if it has DJ would still be a King and would never have left Sydney.
The process only played out for DJ because Kings allowed him to exit his contract
Kings were dammed if they do , dammed if they didnt.
Why would DJ still be a King? Do you think Sydney wanted to hold him at a lower level and not allow him to have a crack at the NBA? Clearly not, instead the Kings put specific clauses into the release agreement so they could retain his NBL rights for when he came back.
You said the process played out as it was supposed to
DJ obviously didnt have an NBA out in his contract, hence the need to negotiate exit and return clauses. Kings didnt have to agree to release him at all. Of course that becomes problematic in other ways.
What was supposed to happen was DJ play for the Kings for 3 years.
"You said the process played out as it was supposed to"
It did. DJ got an NBA opportunity, the Kings released him while retaining his NBL rights. When he returned, the Kings decided not to exercise those rights. There is no need for the NBL to change anything.
Q Anon - don't believe a single word what Bogut says - DJV had an NBA clause but it was very restrictive in a sense that he needed to have a contract to be released, which was very difficult to meet due to the timing (30.06.). So he negotiated to be released upon paying a required buyout to go elsewhere (obviously overseas). Now I'd say you were right if he then turned around and signed with a different NBL club, but he did go away. It didn't work out and yes Adelaide wanted him more than Sydney and that's about it. For this IMO Sydney have been wrong all along trying to create a narrative that DJV deceived them.
The reason for Bogut raising the issue is likely a compensation - if Adelaide offered money for DJV there would be no questions asked. However the current CBA doesn't allow for it and I don't think this will ever be changed.
You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.
Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.
- Updated every 15 minutes
Mon 10:51- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Mon 10:33- re: Junior player developmen...
a5ian nbl fan,
Mon 10:11- re: VJBL U14 team prohibited...
Mon 10:05- re: All-time worst NBL owner
Mon 10:03- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Mon 9:58- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Mon 9:35- re: NBL1 West 23/24 Offseaso...
Mon 9:04- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Mon 7:26- re: Junior player developmen...
Sun 22:55- re: All-time worst NBL owner
Sun 22:52- re: All-time worst NBL owner
Sun 22:37- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 22:32- re: All-time worst NBL owner
Sun 22:07- re: NBL1 West 23/24 Offseaso...
Sun 21:29- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 20:44- re: Junior player developmen...
Sun 20:37- re: Junior player developmen...
Sun 20:24- re: NBL1 West 23/24 Offseaso...
Sun 18:34- re: All-time worst NBL owner
Sun 18:05- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 17:48- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Sun 17:10- re: NBL1 West 23/24 Offseaso...
Sun 16:40- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 16:38- re: VJBL Predictions
Sun 16:30- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 16:15- re: WNBL Round 5
Sun 15:46- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Sun 15:42- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 15:26- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 15:23- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 15:12- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 15:09- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 14:31- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 14:28- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 14:27- re: Melbourne v Taipans 3/12
Sun 13:57- re: All-time worst NBL owner
Sun 13:19- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Sun 13:07- re: All-time worst NBL owner
Sun 11:33- re: All-time worst NBL owner
Sun 11:33- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Sun 11:32- re: WNBL Round 5
Sun 11:19- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Sun 11:15- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Sun 11:12- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Sun 11:11- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Sun 11:01- re: Daniel Johnson’s departu...
Sun 10:59- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
Sun 10:41- re: Josh Giddey drama for re...
Sun 10:33- re: Josh Giddey drama for re...
Sun 10:26- re: 36ers at Tassie, 2nd Dec
An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 10:55 am, Mon 4 Dec 2023 | Posts: 960,875 | Last 7 days: 464