TrevorTorrance
Earlier this year

Boomers 2024- Paris Squad

How is the squad shaping up? Any ideas on our strongest lineup moving forward now that the NBA season is 1/3 of the way through? Is Ben10 even in the discussion still?

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Q Anon  
Earlier this year

Will be interesting to see if Creek is allowed back in. If Giddey is accepted by the elders then so must be Mitch.

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hoopie  
Earlier this year

Innocent until proven guilty (given we don't use the Scottish system)

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Dunkman  
Earlier this year

As Bogut said in his podcast, so many nba players getting very limited minutes, it's not helping.

Reply #933517 | Report this post


rareairunc  
Earlier this year

I think it should look something like this-Keeping in mind many of these players are flexible with their positions
PG- Giddey, Mills(deserves to have one last hurrah after all he has done and can win us a game but should not start or play major minutes unless shooting well) and Exum
SG- Josh green, Thybulle and Goulding(if finishes out NBL season injury free)
SF- Ingles, Simmons(if healthy and eager to play)
PF- Creek(better shooter than x.cooks if needed) and Kay
C-Reath, Landale

This may leave us a bit small but Simmons and Creek can pinch hit at centre, thybulle, ingles and green can also slide up to SF/PF and Exum and Mills can play SG(Exum can also slide up to SF if needed.
It provides us a good mix of outside shooting(most players up and down are shooting at least 35% on 3pg this season), defense(thybulle, green, Simmons and Exum), versatility and ball handling(again alot of good options up and down the roster). We could also play uptempo with a lineup of Giddey, Exum, Green/thybulle, Simmons and Reath

Wild cards are Dyson Daniels who could be a solid addition in the back court but does his inexperience hurt us if he plays major minutes? and I wouldn't mind seeing Rocco there purely as an intro to the world stage. Play him 1-2mins per game if you like and he is sure to get a putback dunk and a block or two

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Dunkman  
Earlier this year

Simmons has hardly played a game in the last few seasons, hasn't got an outside shot, Humphries and hopefully Magnay get a look in. Creek too small for four spot in fiba basketball. White a much better option.

Reply #933520 | Report this post


rareairunc  
Earlier this year

As a JJ's fan I would love to see Magnay get his shot at the squad but i worry about the injury risk. Lot of upside though, being able to switch onto smaller players, block shots, make the right pass, lob threat and does have a 3pt shot there somewhere. Simmons could be the key to unlock it all for us, worth the risk i think with his height, length, ball handling, defense, athleticism. I think FIBA has gone small(compared to years past) and Creek would be fine. Humphries may be in the squad but compared to reath, landale and even magnay is probably not going to make the final team as well as he has performed this season.

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Dunkman  
Earlier this year

Euro teams have massive 4/5 and even 3, Wagner plays three spot and 6'10"

Reply #933524 | Report this post


Beantown  
Earlier this year

If Magnay is healthy, I think he should be in the team too. Neither Reath nor Landale is much of a deterrent on the defensive end, and I think Magnay would offer Goorjian a valuable defensive option.

Last I saw Simmons was out indefinitely with back problems again, so I wouldn't even consider him unless he turns up to training camp and earns his spot.

Exum has been having a very good season and probably deserves to start for the Boomers the way he has been playing. I remember when everyone kept writing off Dante as a bust, so its great to see him being rewarded for all the hard yards he did in Europe!

I feel like there are probably 8 locks for the team:

Mills, Giddey, Green, Exum, Landale, Reath, Cooks, Thybulle

Then I think guys like Ingles, Kay, Magnay, Goulding are very likely. Possible that one or two of those could miss out though. Maybe Goorj doesn’t want the third big, or Ingles/ Kay just gets outplayed by a Dillon/ Creek in camp or something. Not too likely though.

I think Goulding probably gets a spot for his shooting, given we have so many mediocre shooters on this team. I feel like shooting is probably the Boomers biggest question mark with the current personnel.

Reply #933526 | Report this post


TrevorTorrance  
Earlier this year

Exum is looking good this season- hope he stays injury free!
How is Cooks and Kay looking in Japan?

Reply #933527 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Earlier this year

Japan isn't that tough a competition, Kay does what Kay does, been good, Cooks is the same, free throws have slightly improved but doesn’t take threes or jump shots, he’s been good with out being outstanding.
I’d take White ahead of both Creek and Cooks, better defender and better shooter.

Reply #933531 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Earlier this year

Cooks has proven what an impact he can have in a short space of time, even if he's not going to be a consistent scorer. In a squad of 12 you can afford to have a couple of guys like that.
Solid options will need to miss out. Nice problem to have.

Reply #933532 | Report this post


The Phantom  
Earlier this year

Simmons won't play, Nets wouldn't allow it unless they simply don't care if he never plays a minute for them again. Which is a possibility.
Size hurt in WC without Landale so he and Reach will be in. Giddey will make it but have teams worked him out, not even guarding him from 3, will need shooters around him. Exum another definite with his form especially. And if Mills doesn't make it then there will be public outcry. Even if he isn't the Patty of old, he's still a chance of dropping a FIBA 30 point game randomly.
Coaching staff love Kay so he'll be in. Coaching staff hate Creek so he'll be out. White gives a bit of size and shooting at his position so should be fine. Thybulle should be in even just so commentary can rave about his defence. Ingles, Green, Daniels and Cooks can fight it out.
Surely Goorjean has to give Goulding minutes even after him riding the bench at WC. Is absolutely white hot and could bust a game open. Opposition players will get the scouting report but he might have 5 3s before they even recognise who he is.
But they'll need something. USA, Canada, Spain, Serbia, Germany and Slovenia with Luka look better. And France with Wenbanyama, god knows.
More concerned with the coaching than playing group really.

Reply #933534 | Report this post


MaxM  
Earlier this year

Personally I think we should bring 3 centres, being Landale, Reath and probably a defensive specialist like Magnay to combat some of the units that the Europeans and USA have.

Bring Rocco to training camp and start the process of getting him involved but unless he shows something undeniable in camp, don't put in the final 12 just yet.

Reath could easily be played at the 4 anyway with his shooting and improved conditioning.

It's what worked in Tokyo when we had Baynes, and we saw at the world cup how vulnerable we are when one of our bigs gets injured.

General consensus is that Patty is gonna have a much reduced role, leading the bench unit probably.

IMO lock Dante Exum into a starting role, give Chris Goulding more minutes, bring Jack White over Creek.

Creek is too small for a 4 in FIBA and too slow for a 3 and his shooting is overrated. He can bully opponents in the NBL, not in FIBA.



Reply #933535 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Earlier this year

Creek was a good contributor in 2019, showed he can contribute at WC level, I'd have no problem with him being picked if that eventuated, but there is a lot of traffic for those 3-4 spots.

Reply #933537 | Report this post


Kas  
Earlier this year

I'm surprised Luke Travers does not get a mention? - with his length, athleticism and versatility

Reply #933559 | Report this post


KWhite_Rulez  
Earlier this year

Ingles was playing great for the Magic before he got injured so would be surprised if he wasn't in.

Simmons will never, ever play for the Boomers again.

Reply #933560 | Report this post


Yup  
Earlier this year

Giddey's shooting 37% from 3 and our best creator, gotta ride or die with him!

Giddey/Daniels
Exum/Mills
Green/Ingles
Duop/Thybulle
Landale/Magnay

2 more spots
Cooks
White
Goulding
Kay

Outside chance
Pinder
Froling
Travers
Creek


I’m gonna say Cooks and Goulding for the last 2 spots

Reply #933565 | Report this post


Patty"TheGOAT"Mills  
Earlier this year

Patty Mills - 11 August 1988

Chris Goulding - 24 October 1988

Joe Ingles - 2 October 1987

We were the team with the highest number of old players at the last World Cup.
Patty was one of the best players, but he had a lot of ups and downs.
Ingles was one of the worst players.
Goulding's records continue to drop in major international competitions.
They'll even be a year older after the World Cup and before the Paris Olympics.
I think only one of those three should be chosen.
Perhaps it will be Patty.

Reply #933567 | Report this post


Lukefly  
Earlier this year

I rate @yup's team and would add white and Goulding.

Reply #933572 | Report this post


Yup  
Earlier this year

yeah Lukefly but that leaves out everyone's favorite in Nick Kay...


I feel Like Daniels is almost a lock...

Reply #933573 | Report this post


Lukefly  
Earlier this year

I think Kay added value in the past, but I think he is a bit too old now, time for white.

Reply #933575 | Report this post


pattymillsMVP  
Earlier this year

Kay has been great for the Boomers in the past. But after seeing him targeted and cooked play after play by Germany perhaps he is past it at international level. Happy to be proven wrong.

Green, Reath, Exum Giddey, Landale and Patty are locks.

I agree with Yup's list to fill it out.

My biggest concerns are the lack of shooting and Giddey’s play style. If we can fill out the squad with a sniper that would be beneficial. Giddey needs to refrain from over dribbling particularly into traffic. Our old offense at WC China and Tokyo was pretty and free flowing. I think Giddey is making these adjustments currently at OKC as he learns to play alongside some stars.

Never doubt Patty. He has it in him and is extremely important to the team on and off the court. Green and Exum could be our next up one two punch.

Reply #933576 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Earlier this year

Landale has played twenty games out thirty three, averaging just under nine minutes a game, Mills a lot less as most of nba players bar a few, it's not great.

Reply #933584 | Report this post


fan since the old snakepit  
Earlier this year

pattymillsMVP

Fixed this for you.

Our old offense at when Lemanis coached was pretty and free flowing.

Goorj has always relied on out talenting others at domestic level which does not cut it at the international level.

Hope he gets an assistant who can make the offence click.

Reply #933586 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Whats their style going to be for the Olympics?

In the World Cup I felt at times they had so many athletic wingy athletic players but they didn't really have everything else that’s just so critical and helpful balance wise:

Scorers to be relied on when things go cold (used to be Mills/Ingles)
Point guard to get things moving (Mills/Delly)
Defensive big causing trouble (Bogut)
Bulky big to avoid being outmuscled (Baynes)
Scoring big (Landale, Andersen)

Do we think these will be covered better this time around?


Reply #933587 | Report this post


The Phantom  
Earlier this year

The experience and familiarity of previous campaigns was a big X factor that gave Australia an advantage and now may take some time to replicate. As KET mentioned, everyone had a great role with the team. Delly the pesky defender that didn't care about scoring, that was Patty's job. Ingles there for defence as well and could hit the 3 to space the floor. Baynes to bang against the big monsters and rebound, Bogut the anchor in the middle that was a facilitator as well, probably the best passer in the squad. And he could play the opposing centres without an automatic double team. I shudder thinking about Landale and Reath going up against Jokic and Embiid. Unfortunately the connector between the old and new is/was Simmons, should be in his prime and should have had minutes under his belt. Maker as well to some extent. Only one really bridging the gap is Exum, this should be last major tournament for Ingles and Mills, lost Delly and Baynes after Tokyo as well as Bogut.
This group should come together as a core of Giddey, Landale, Green, Daniels, Reath and White with Exum the veteran at the next WC or Olympics. Do they start ushering in some young guys for the future so we suddenly don't lose half the team with a Travers or Rocco or one or 2 of the current Aussie next stars. Most definitely aren't up to it ATM, but only way imo that they can compete with countries outside of America, who can just reload everytime they flunk out at WC, is playing together for a few years instead of retooling. This group should be looking at 2028 as an opportunity to play for gold, just like the last group was built to win in Tokyo. 4 year cycles really aren't enough to come together if everyone is scattered everywhere and only have a few camps together. In the old days where qualifiers/friendlies etc were played by mainly the A team, we send a C team of NBL guys against the easy beats. This team seems to be mainly too old or too young/inexperienced together to medal this year. Have Ingles there to mentor and occasionally stir some shit up on court. If Mills is feeling it, feed him. Just stop with the under 10 substitutions, see what players work well together initially, then tighten up rotations in later games. See if Giddey, Green, Landale, Reath and Daniels are the future, not bringing in a Kay or Cooks every couple of minutes and disrupting the potential chemistry. Treat this as the summer season and see what works, polish it up and tighten at WC, then go for gold at next Olympics.
And FFS, can basketball Australia please find some shooters really really soon. Sad state in this age of 3 point shooting we only have Mills and Goulding as our only world class perimeter threats. Instead we're churning out 6 7 guys that are uber athletic, but predominantly role players internationally or NBA, every other country seems to have a few elite shooters and scorers.

Reply #933593 | Report this post


Yup  
Earlier this year

We kinda have shooter's now

There's plenty of guys on that list shooting 40% from 3

I'll let someone else collate the 3p% stats

this team rides and dies with Giddey, he might not be able to get us all the way but he's the best bet, surround him with shooters...

Reply #933673 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

We shouldn't make the mistake that there’s a rule of shooting 40% from 3 in the NBA = being a shooter/scorer.

If the Olympics were NBA rules and spacing and played with the effort of an 82 game season marathon and if we had Luka Doncic taking attention of the defence to give wide open threes to our guys, then we can rely on that.

Players that can creating their own scoring and space or knocking down contested threes with less spacing at their disposal is the critical characteristic that counts from an Aussie perspective. That used to be Mills and Ingles.

Who is it now?

Reply #933677 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Earlier this year

Cotton, get him naturalised

Reply #933687 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

I am probably the least optimistic I've ever been about a Boomers campaign leading into a major tournamnet right now. I don't really trust Goorjian to make a winner of this team. I know he has a lot of credentials but I think his in-game adjustments have consistently been left wanting and his player selection has always been a question mark.

I don't think we make the same mistake we made last time and go small. If we lose a Landale or Reath this time we're going to be back where we were last year. Jonah Bolden and Magnay should be on this team.

As for NBA playing time the only way to negate that is an issue is to have enough warm up games that these guys can get in a rhythm. You cant have 3-4 warm ups against half assed competition and expect for it to work out. We don't have the continuity to get away with that.

Kay is over the hill. He's fit a role when we had size around him but I think he's been superceded by other players now. I'd be surprised if Creek makes the team and it would only be as a small forward and if someone else falls off. Simmons might as well go into lawn bowls at this point.

Reply #933741 | Report this post


JT  
Earlier this year

A huge issue is that Goorjian is on record saying that we played the dribble heavy iso style with emphasis on getting out on the break, at the WC because (in as many words) that is how these guys play in the NBA, and he didn't have enough time to implement a Euro-style offense with ball and player movement. He said this on a post-WC podcast with Kane Pitman.

Huge alarm bells for me. We don’t have the talent to beat the USA or Canada playing that style, so we certainly don’t have the goods against the Euro teams. (The likes of Germany, France and Serbia, ironically, have a wealth of NBA guys in featured roles but amazingly are able to play an actual team offensive system).

Longing for the days of Lemanis. His 2016 and 2019 teams were better than the 2021 vintage - the medal (which was still deserved, and can never be taken away) makes this guy look much better than he has actually been for the program.

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hoopie  
Earlier this year

Well said, JT

Reply #933800 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Earlier this year

The nba euro players come through programs from very young ages of fiba like basketball, they can adapt to both nba style and fiba style very quickly.

Lemanis was so unlucky, as Bogut said, where is fiba head office. Should have had nothing less than silver. I'd like to see him back coaching in nbl.

Reply #933802 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Earlier this year

"Kay is over the hill. He's fit a role when we had size around him"

Yes, but then he came into his own when we didn't have size and he had to carry a big load. Will be interesting to see if someone can move past him, they'll have to perform very well in camp to show they can fill his role and more.

Reply #933803 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

"Longing for the days of Lemanis. His 2016 and 2019 teams were better than the 2021 vintage - the medal (which was still deserved, and can never be taken away) makes this guy look much better than he has actually been for the program."


This ^. The 2016 and 19 teams were better and beat better teams than the 2021 team did.

"Yes, but then he came into his own when we didn't have size and he had to carry a big load. Will be interesting to see if someone can move past him, they'll have to perform very well in camp to show they can fill his role and more."

I think Bolden, Magnay and even White walk in ahead of him. His World Cup was poor to say the least. He's playing in Japan against low level talent. I am seeing nothing that suggests he is bringing anything more than those guys this year.

Reply #933829 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

Not enough is said for Lemanis and what he did for the boomers program. i was always a fan and defender. It kept being said that he just couldnb't get the guys over the hump, but how much control does he have over a single foul or a patty mills free throw? He's the best coach the Boomers ever had in my opinion and it's sacrilege that his contribution isn't acknowledged. He has his hands all over that bronze medal.

Reply #933831 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Earlier this year

"I think Bolden, Magnay and even White walk in ahead of him."

Bolden has some good qualities, but not the high IQ play at both ends, particularly defensively, that has resulted in Kay being such an important cog in the Boomers wheel.

While he may be slowing down, for anyone to replace the guy with such a clear role in the team, who was third in the teams' +/- at the WC, they're going to have to perform very well in camp.

Reply #933836 | Report this post


Big Ads  
Earlier this year

The Boomers moved the ball so well in Rio and China that it made them difficult to defend. Their "spread-the-wealth" approach on offensive benefitted high iq players like Kay at those tournaments.

As good as Reath, Giddey and Cooks played at times, they couldn't replicate this style of play with the same success as Delly, Baynes and Landale, so Kay struggled as a result, especially with the late withdrawal of Landale.

Reply #933845 | Report this post


Patty"TheGOAT"Mills  
Earlier this year

Nick Kay is 27 years old in 2019, 29 years old in 2021, and 31 years old in 2023. He will now turn 32 at this year's Olympics.
His prime time is starting to end. He also plays in a less competitive league in Asia.
People rely too much on past memories.
It may be difficult for him to make the same plays he used to make in the past.

Reply #933846 | Report this post


MaxM  
Earlier this year

True but for goodness sake I don't understand the Bolden love, the man is a backup big in the NBL not even playing 20 minutes a game.

Every Sydney game thread on here you have fans complaining about how perimeter centric he is. Jordan Hunter much much better than him for Sydney IMO.

Jack White on the other hand, get him in IMO

Reply #933859 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Earlier this year

@ Max M, how right you are, Bolden so overrated and White so underrated.

Reply #933863 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

The ball movement was atrocious at the last cup. I see this team will fall somewhere between 6th and 10th this year. I'd love to be wrong but I am not seeing what we have that will put us ahead of USA (obviously), Serbia, France, Canda or Germany. I think we could potentially have the horses to compete and maybe topple some of those countries but it cant be done if we look anything like we did last year. That was the worst I've seen the Boomers play in well over a decade. Things could get real ugly for us if we dont figure it out. And I think we need to consider whether Giddey is our main point guard or not because it simply did not work last year. He might be better off almost as your secondary scoring option.

Reply #933864 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

Then there are all the teams yet to qualify and theyll also be good. It's going to be tough. If theyre going to trouble for a medal theyre going to have to play with a great amount of synergy and drive. The almost lazy defense of last year cant be a feature again.

Reply #933865 | Report this post


AlphabetA  
Earlier this year

It will be interesting ME since we moved away from any team structure trying to replicate that run-and-gun style. Lemanis was good as he instilled his style of play at AIS so he could basically pick anyone and slot into his system and have a similar result. This current individual approach will fail most of the time against Europeans. FIBA game is more tactical than the NBA so the Boomers need to establish that. However I am not sure they will have time to implement anything and my worry is that we will all see more or less the same thing. I'd like to see the initial squad of 25-30 players and then go from there, having them committed for the whole ride so if someone goes down injured there will be a replacement. While inclusion of Landale may change a bit, his DNPs keep piling up, same with some others. I would say Exum has improved tremendously and must be in that team, the rest I am not sure of, well yes Patty and Joe should be there but why? For the sake of giving them that last hooray even though they may not be up to it? Father age catches up with everyone. Even Serbia let Teodosic go and they finished second in the last WC with much younger team.

Reply #933866 | Report this post


Hooping  
Earlier this year

so what are the chances of the Boomers getting a top 3 overall and thus top pool seeding for the Olympic draw? which means avoiding USA and Germany in the 1st round and prob 50/50 chance of playing France and also Canada in the pool games.

remembering where the Fiba head office is.

For those selecting teams, 7 of the 11 teams are likely Euro teams.

Reply #934181 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Earlier this year

Landale another dnp, he'd have to be rusty. Hopefully they get a good squad to go at each other and take the inform guys. Humphries and Magnay got be at trials.

Reply #934183 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Earlier this year

"so what are the chances of the Boomers getting a top 3 overall and thus top pool seeding for the Olympic draw? which means avoiding USA and Germany in the 1st round and prob 50/50 chance of playing France and also Canada in the pool games."

No matter how long we've dominated Asia/Oceania it has never fallen our way that we'd get a top 3 seeding and I don't expect it now. Whatever the group of death is you can probably expect tht.

"Landale another dnp, he'd have to be rusty. Hopefully they get a good squad to go at each other and take the inform guys. Humphries and Magnay got be at trials."

They're going to need all the warm up games they can get. I understand that is what theyre aiming for. It could work that they have enough warm ups that everyone finds rhythm I guess.. I don't think everyone necessarily needds a big NBA role for the team to be successful, they need runs as a team for the Boomers above all else.

Reply #934189 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Earlier this year

Hopefully we pick players on form and not reputation.

Reply #934192 | Report this post


Yup  
Earlier this year

We're still living and dyeing with Giddey, knit pick as much as you like but your best option is your best option.

Prolly not gonna have a sophisticated offence, our best bet is Giddey and shooters and defence...

Reply #934236 | Report this post


MaxM  
Earlier this year

Food for thought.

Boomers B-League (Japan) Stats:

Nick Kay: 28 games played, 17.7 points (career-high), 8.4 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.7 blocks.

Xavier Cooks: 14 games played, 10.9 points, 8.5 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.9 blocks.

Reply #934391 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Earlier this year

Goorjian isn't going to pay any attention to B-League form when it comes to picking the final team. Boomers form and camp form will be what matters most.

Reply #934400 | Report this post




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