Literally 400 post thread with LV defending Melbourne and everyone else complaining

Problem is it wasn't a jury, just one person's opinion that has now set a precedent for touching a spectator.

In addition, if the league doesn't act on the spectator part, the precedent will be set that fans can be abusive and even physical to players and the players are then expected to not react.

The league hasn't done shit about the Melbourne abuse, despite first hand accounts from United supporters.

It's salary cap investigation shenanigans 2.0 for Adelaide.

It's bull shit, nothing more to say. They are as bad as the afl.

When do the details about the spectators in question come out?

Disgraceful decisions and worst of all Melbourne get looked after.

Davis and Harrell get suspended for touching a spectator.How you you react if racial slurs were said to you.Being a Melbourne supporter will probably get a slap on the wrist.

Illi runs in and pushes and shoves and Barlow as the 2nd Assistant clears the bench and they get fines.

Barlow is not allowed on the court when a fight or anything breaks out as it is only the coach and 1st Assistant can go on to try to break it up.

This is BS. I only just watched the footage recently, after reading the other mega thread, and I thought Harrell only lost it when the spectator appeared to touch DJV. If I was the NBL, I'd be taking it out on the spectator, not Harrell.

For a 'National League', having a single member judiciary meting out these punishments is unbelievable.

I don't understand how Melbourne has been unable to identify the fan in the grey hoodie? Someone purchased those seats right? Melbourne should require the holder of those seats to either identify the man in the grey hoodie or they lose their tickets and get banned for at least a year! There HAS to be accountability on the Melbourne side for the behaviour of fans that get way out of line like this.

Harrell 3 weeks ($3685 fine)

Davis 2 games

Suprise surprise Melbourne getting looked after yet again. Other codes the club would be held accountable for the crowd behaviour and would be about protecting the players.

@Reggie other codes you'd get suspended for punching someone in the jaw

And I reckon you'd get more than 3 games for remonstrating with the crowd and trying to fight them

So who exactly is getting looked after?

You may also note the NBL's comment

"The NBL Integrity Department's investigation of the spectator incident from the game remains ongoing"

So we can't comment on that

But we can confidently say Harrell got a very light penalty- at least for the melee we should all agree

Ili should go into boxing if he got punched in the jaw and hardly flinched. Oh, must be because of his concussion history where slight hits knock him out that's stopping him. And of course Harrell isn't a physical specimen that sends other big guys flying with regularity. Punch to the jaw!!! Bullshit. If Harrell punched Ili in the jaw then Ili is finished for real.

And remonstrating is grounds for suspension now? And trying is as well? Wasn't the charges inappropriate grabbing or handling of a spectator. Sounds more like a tickle fight than a free for all.

Wow, talk about sensationa

*sensationalism

"The NBL Integrity Department's investigation of the spectator incident from the game remains ongoing"

At least the NBL has gotten one thing right so far: referring to the shit stirrer as a spectator and not a fan.

Yay now we have a second thread of LV "the silent majority" vs Everyone else (the biased masses)

Should be an absolute thrill of a time!

"Disgraceful decisions and worst of all Melbourne get looked after."

It doesn't appear that way when you break it down.

Incident 1, the melee, both teams were involved and fines were handed out to both sides. No suspensions.

Incident 2, the crowd clash, only Adelaide were involved in that and as such only they received penalties.

Next up will be the sanctions to the spectators involved.

The silence from MU is deafening (except for the 'I hear no, speak no, see nothing) on the spectator.

Anonymightymouse - Don't bring logic and facts into the discussion as this does not help those in here that struggle to control their emotions/bias.


The Phantom

"Ili should go into boxing if he got punched in the jaw and hardly flinched"

Actually if you watch the replay his head moves to the side like he had been punched. You obviously have not see that strike in the video.

"If Harrell punched Ili in the jaw then Ili is finished for real."

Did you just come back from Mars and didn't see the replay yet? Harrell was being held back. Hard to get a clean shot in when being held back. At the end of the day it was more of a low impact jab but still a clinched fist

I think the NBL has messed up on this decision

They have brought in the mess of the engagement with the spectator

They could have banned Harell for 3 games for the punch and I think most would have accepted it based on past suspension with Baynes and so on. Harell saying he didnt touch anyone when it's clear in the footage he did is poor from him.

Of all the footage I have seen DJV would be the one I picked for touching the fan. I'm yet to see anything that shows KD touching someone. Harell makes a pushing motion but no footage that I have seen shows him making contact with the spectator.

Banning Harell and KD for the spectator situation is where they lost me. I am struggling that 2 players can be banned before they have finished their investigations into what the fans said and did. Im struggling that the NBL hasn't backed in their players regarding the racist comments alleged to have been said.

Being United it just adds to the perceptions of bias.

I agree the sanctions for the crowd incident should all have been handed down together once all facts were known.

Qanon

"I am struggling that 2 players can be banned before they have finished their investigations into what the fans said and did."

Because as I said in the other thread...

"Point is it doesn't actually matter what the fan said

Even if the fan said something highly inflammatory and offensive about Harell's family or race. Or whatever. In that case, a long ban would obviously be appropriate for the fan. Maybe life

But it wouldn't excuse Harrell entering the fan area to escalate the situation. That can't happen, that can't be swept under the rug. Regardless of other circumstances."

So what's happened here is Harrell has received a light penalty (as we all suspected) but it's effectively a best-case scenario for Harrell. In effect, they've assumed the worst by the fan and sanctioned Harrell accordingly (undergirded by the motive of wanting Harrell back in the NBL, I speculate).

This is why it's ridiculous for 36ers fans to be complaining right now

Q Anon generally you are pretty knowledgeable and centred and have some inside information so even you would know there will be close to 10 cameras on the incident showing all angles. The broadcast angle wont show and doesn't everything. KD slides in between Griscti and Weston, reaches through and pushes the spectator. This is what leads to Weston being pushed over the small foam triangular divider.

Tend to agree with LV a bit on this one. Provocation can't be a defence in this type of instance - players have to let security/venue staff/management/police etc deal with this and not take matters into their own hands. That said, spectators identified as coming into contact with players should get life bans, regardless of how high a profile they might have or how big a sponsor they might be.

And Beantown has it right too. It's baffling how there are apparently still participants who haven't been identified.

The whole process seems (once again) to be very amateur. "Adelaide may appeal the SMT's determination to a Full Member Tribunal" - why wouldn't you have a FMT deal with this from the start rather than an individual. And even moreso when you ban media from the hearing to you can totally control the narrative.

The NBL have led with their chin the way this has been handled, so they can't complain about the backlash whichever direction it comes from.

I hear what you are saying Sebastian but tried to push someone and did push someone are two different things obviously.

I am yet see footage that shows KD making contact, Im open to that it may have happened , just saying I haven't seen it.

It's been established LV that Harell didnt leave the court during the pushing and shoving.

Considering LK is tipping money into Adelaide now it is unlikely he wants these outcomes too.

I guess you do not have to see it but it exists. And he doesn't try, he makes contact. And Harrell leaves the court and stands over the spectator prior to the pushing and shoving.

Big question is now will trez return, Hope he does its good for the league,if not sixers will need find another import quickly.
Hope Martin Marshall dech can step up .

Recent social media banter from this guy calling trez names ,Hope nbl do something. Larry K just looks after so a possibility that this fan is a friend of LK

Hope sixers appeal and make it quick time is running out as our game is on Saturday.

Hope our imports stay with team. If they leave our ship will be sunk.

All this talk of 36ers appealing

Appeal what exactly?

Does anyone seriously think players should be able to remonstrate with, walk towards and physically engage with, attempt to fight with, or otherwise engage in any form of aggression or intimidation towards spectators (regardless of provocation) without penalty?

Like seriously, does anyone, hand on heart, honestly believe that?

Harrell doesn't seem happy...


"No one else involved in the situation huh @NBL only me and KD lol no players from other team just the coach for coming off the bench lol! Yeaaa I'm good man smh," Harrell tweeted.

“Lmao and please cut it wit [sic] the closed fist mess because if I punched one them you would have definitely knew but that’s not case so stop preaching it to make it seem as the punishment was justified,” he continued.

Social media abuse becomes a police matter not a league matter. If your profile isn't private (like the Tas player partner) you are open to whomever wants to click on our profile and leave whatever they like.

Why on earth is the nbl advertising Harrel's response to the verdict? He’s bagging them out. The nbl has turned into a tabloid league. Especially with the rubbish headlines they have from Damon Lowry.

Remember: the NBL is the second best league in the world...

I see one spectator has been banned for life and another handed a 10year ban

Turned into a tabloid league? This league admin has always preferenced clicks and hype over competition integrity and any other concerns.

life ban and a 10-year ban for the spectators

Oh, but I thought United and the NBL were doing nothing about the fans, and the NBL was looking after United?

Feel free to form a long and orderly queue and take back your comments, hoops crew

How do you see this as validating your point of view? This should have and could have been done on the day of the game. MU and the NBL made a mess of it and that doesnt back you up in any way shape or form.

You expect them to issue penalties on a complex issue like this without a thorough investigation?

Seriously?

And It 100% validates the fact the NBL hasn't looked after United or swept the fan behaviour under the rug at all

LV, why don't you quote specifically the people you’re talking to so they can take back whatever comments you’re referring to?

OK LV

There is no new information today than there was at the time it all happened

It's not complex, it's very simple.

The fans were ejected and should have been banned then and there for fighting let alone the racism that has been demonstrated to have occurred despite MU's best fingers in the ears attempt

The only thing that happened in between was that the spectators threatened the NBL with defamation if they released their names.

It's extremely complex. That's why the NBL went with the single member tribunal instead of the zero member one.

I have no problem with how this has been handled.
Both parties in the fans vs Sixers melee have been dealt with appropriately.

Harrel is a big knucklehead by the looks and isn't above sanction.
For someone so experienced you would think he could put his emotions in check.

I think it was Master Chief who said Harrell used to carry on like an idiot in the NBA too, I wouldn't know I don't watch NBA anymore, but if so that might explain why he fell out of the NBA in his prime.

To me he looks frustrated both by the lack of NBA interest and his inability to dominate in the NBL. Putting up numbers sure but with the lack of good bigs in the NBL a guy with his resume and in his prime should be tearing it up. It hasn't happened. Plus the team is barely above .500 at 6-5. With almost certain losses in the bext couple of games too.

Will Harrell stop acting like a knucklehead and get serious in the second half of the season when he comes back from suspension?

Agreed Mystro - I think most of us expected the suspensions to land somewhere in the realm that it did and that has been accepted by the 36ers too.

The fans outcome is what some of us called for, and I think that sets the right example.

Outside of the melee and crowd extracurricular engagement, there are of course other aspects that left a bad taste which perhaps could be addressed, but I doubt those would ever occur.

Wait.

QAnon????


Considering LK is tipping money into Adelaide now it is unlikely he wants these outcomes too.

LK bought into Adelaide???

I'm way behind on the player and spectator fracas. I've only read the chatter here and that's it.

Anyone have a youtube video or similar they could link to pls?

"For someone so experienced you would think he could put his emotions in check."

I think most of us are on edge with Trez, there's always a nervousness and anxiety that he’d go too far and then he did.

We need to find him a Zen master

Felix - I think LK has been helping the 36ers for a while in some way. They tend to have the same sponsors that Melbourne, SEM and Brisbane have like tyre power etc.

I don't think that’s a coincidence...

It has been said on this forum and possibly elsewhere that Adelaide were alleging ongoing abuse of Harrell from spectators along the path he took exiting the playing arena as well as incitement by the Court announcer. If that was outside the probe of the Integrity Unit then there would be nothing stopping MU taking its own action against any of its members that were involved. Other clubs would be mortified if that had happened in their stadium and there would be consequences including a strongly worded club comms to members to be better.

The rumour was that the money had dried up and an exit was on the cards that would devalue all the NBL teams so LK stepped in to assist , next minute Adelaide sack Ninnis and sign Montrezl.

Just read that someone suggested the United courtside announcer incited the situation somewhat. Can't say I’m surprised to read that. Wild he still has a gig, has been a cockhead for a long time.

Olgun Uluc reporting Adelaide not appealing.

I wouldn't either the Sixers would have to be quietly content with those small suspensions, it could've been a whole lot worse. Harrell being the NBL's poster child is probably what saved him from a 5+ game suspension.

Again, why would they appeal?

On what basis?

Adelaide 36ers respect yesterday's decision of the NBL Single Member Tribunal (SMT) hearing for Kendric Davis and Montrezl Harrell.


"Both Kendric and Montrezl have taken responsibility for their part in the incidents during the November 17 match against Melbourne United at John Cain Arena.


We will continue to protect our players and actively support their physical and mental wellbeing.


Kendric and Montrezl appreciate all the words of support from around the NBL, especially our amazing home fans.


Kendric will return on Sunday, December 8 against Perth Wildcats with Montrezl to follow on Saturday, December 14 against New Zealand Breakers at Adelaide Entertainment Centre."

https://nbl.com.au/news/adelaide-statement-harrell-davis-suspensions

I'd appeal on the suspensions seem hard to what United got, and from a member who sits right near the bench, told me of racial abuse. As per most sports around the world, carpet, broom, take the media coverage and move on.

To be fair none of the Melbourne players did anything to warrant a suspension. You can't suspend Ili for a little shove like that, it's on Harrell to pull his head in not go punching people or getting physical with fans no matter what shit they say.

The Melee suspensions are fine. Harrell clearly strikes the face of Ili, United's fines are comparable.

United players etc were clearly not involved in the fan scuffle so those penalties only relate to Adelaide. I wouldn't go anywhere near the fan suspensions as they are very lenient.

[I'd appeal on the suspensions seem hard to what United got]

Do you think perhaps, just maybe, that's because 36ers players got aggressive with fans and United players didn't?

If you're talking the melee, Harrell would've been suspended 1 game if this was AFL.

Low impact, intentional, head contact= 1 game

He got off lightly overall.

36ers should be stoked with this result.

And if the punch on Ili was categorised as medium impact- as opposed to low, high or severe impact- then it would be 2 weeks in AFL

Ok, after the initial incident, who is holding Harrell back by himself, non other than the hulk, Jason Cadee. Then it's Sunday. Now unless they've really been hitting the weights there's no way they can hold Harrell back. It was the usual bravado "hold me back" game, if Cadee had let go the Trez would have gone what are you doing bro? Even with Goulding in the way, Harrell can definitely make his way through them. Now the strike. If he was going to punch it would have been a more over head punch. In this case it was more side arm, fingers did come together but wasn't fully clenched. It was more the wrist that made contact, not the knuckles. Yes, Ilis head does move but more consistent with a slappy push than a crisp jab. If he saw a punch coming he would have tried to pull his head away from the contact. So he didn't even flinch when he knew there was a possibility a punch could have been coming. And I believe that Ili even said it wasn't a punch. Could say that's the old not dobbing on anyone, but if Ili had thought it was a real punch I say he would have stated it. In any case, he's unsure himself and that's clear. Did he make a statement to the one person tribunal? If legit he should have been called to give evidence since he was one of main players involved. If it was believed he wasn't giving true testimony, then give him a penalty. But due to lack of transparency no-one really knows what he technically said. Maybe he did say behind closed doors that he was punched.
And in looking at the penalty it seems that they believe a punch wasn't thrown otherwise he would have gotten a lot more.
Anyway, clearly there are two sides, one that thinks it was a punch and one that doesn't. Let's just agree to disagree otherwise this will go on forever.
What remains is will Harrell return, if so they'll be the hottest tickets in town. Hopefully these idiots stop posting racist crap on social media and it could just be an entertaining second half of the season.
Martin will have to step up in next few games, and Cadee should step in for Davis. Not looking forward to DJ shooting it every time he catches it though, others will need to step up. I wonder if Starling can fill in for those 3 games, be a perfect replacement player.

36ers already have Tom Kubank as their nominated replacement player, so imagine he'll get the spot for while Davis is out.

[clearly there are two sides, one that thinks it was a punch and one that doesn't. Let's just agree to disagree otherwise this will go on forever.]

The higher definition footage they showed on Overtime put that debate to bed (if it was ever a genuine debate in the first place), it was a punch, and it'd an be automatic suspension in the AFL- 1 or 2 weeks depending on contact grading

Felix made some great points on overtime tonight

Oh FFS, you don't even understand what agree to disagree means.
Ok, you're right, well done.

Can only see the fans reacting to being pushed, not instigating.

Has anyone seen this footage or is something amiss?

No, agreeing to disagree is a cop out

One side of that "debate" is obstinately refusing to open their eyes, instead choosing to bury their head in the sand. Deserves to be called out

He punched Ili. And he got away with a fine that amounts to pocket change

On the separate issue of the fans, Harrell and Davis were both being very aggressive and they got 3 and 2 games respectively

This is a light slap on the wrist with a feather, and they should be very grateful that the size of Harrell's profile likely reduced the size of their penalties. The NBL has clearly heard of asset protection.

Ok great to see the spectators involved have been handed significant bans. Hopefully they will be properly enforced! Would still like to hear that Melbourne are going to create more separation between the front row and the visiting bench in future. It was asking for trouble having them so close together like that.

The suspensions seem reasonable to me, as we don't want players reacting to fans that way, regardless of their behaviour. Needed to be actual security in the vicinity of the bench. If they had come in quickly, perhaps Trez would not have got close enough to stand over that spectator.

Anyway, penalties handed out now, time to move one. If the coach is any good, he should have the Sixers playing with an us against the world mentality for the rest of the season!

This also gives Humphries and Martin more minutes and responsibility to step up and find some form. Big Ben will get an opportunity for some backup minutes and Cadee and Marshall will get bigger roles as ballhandlers. Definitely a great opportunity for TEAM growth.

Agreed on all points Beantown!

I can agree with sentiment of MU Courtside announcer definitely inflaming the situation of this one, you could feel it rising throughout the whole game inside stadium.

I attended most MU games Pre-Covid and thought he walked the line very well and was more playful and fun during that time.

However, I've attended three games this year, including the last two MU home games and have noticed that he’s definitely a lot more vicious now and has talks A LOT more than I remember and definitely baiting the opposition players. He doesn’t even sit on the scoring bench anymore it seems.

Olgun Oluc made really good points on ESPN, raising the Hodgson/DJ (2 games) and Baynes on Mayen (1 game) examples to question Harrell walking away with a fine for a punch in the face

Asset Protection for sure.

"I think the players got off pretty leniently in the context of things"

- Jack Heverin

All these pro United puppets, how dare they!

The only views that can be trusted are unbiased individuals... like Joey Wright!

The voice of basketball John Casey thought it was a bit tough and Adelaide should have challenged

All these pro-36ers puppets, how dare they!

What's ya point exactly?

CJL10
"he's definitely a lot more vicious now and talks A LOT more than I remember and definitely baiting the opposition players"

Interesting to hear your first hand experience CLJ, which makes United's statement somewhat superficial:
"We are committed to maintaining the most inclusive and welcoming environment in Australian sport...."

Don't forget Marcus Lee got two games (one with early plea) for what was really just a hard foul in the semi-final last year. Not sure how that finding can matchup with Harrell's fine only here.

"I think the players got off pretty leniently in the context of things"

- Jack Heverin

In the context of things?
Let's look at some the context:
There were no injuries sustained by anyone as a result of the scuffle.
There was deliberate and unnecessary exacerbation by individuals on the court.
There was relentless and obscene language used by the crowd in direct proximity to the players, constituting workplace abuse.

The players recieved fines and suspensions. So how is that lenient in the above context?

Not to mention that dishonourable court announcer egging everyone on, never overlook the influence a person with a megaphone has over a crowd in a very heated situation. He seems to have escaped a kick up the backside for the umpteenth time because he's a long time member of the Tigers/United fraternity.

Harrell confirms he will be coming back.

"Overnight, the former NBA sixth man of the year confirmed he would be coming back.

"Was feeling a lot (of) feelings wit' [sic] the decision from NBL but at (the) end (of) the day I own it, respect it and take it on the chin," Harrell said via X.

“But please keep all this hate when I get back DOWN UNDER because I’m (going to) make every one y’all regret that for real!”

Harrell doubled-down on Instagram.

“You best try kick us while we (are) down! You got till the 8th December good luck!” he said, referencing the final game of his suspension."

https://nbl.com.au/news/monsta-set-for-big-return

I think the whole affair has shown up the meaningless motherhood puff pieces from the NBL and United.

Both claim to be family-oriented, dedicated to fairness and integrity, etc etc.

With regard to the melee, the players and Barlow only get a slap on the wrist with a token fine. As if that'll stop them next time - yeah, nah. The NBL is basically giving an orange light to physicality and (almost) dirty play. It’s becoming more like the AFL every day.

United STILL keep employing the same announcer regardless of his unsavoury behaviour over many years, this from a "family club".

They did the right thing by coming down hard on the spectators involved in the second melee, and (slightly) hard on the main players involved - obviously need to protect the investment coming in from the corporate boxes and the celebs in the front seats. But doesn’t the penalty for the spectators seem way out of proportion compared with that for the players?


Obviously I don’t know all the facts, but it’s obvious to me that the NBL and United are protecting their investment more than actually living their mission statements and all that.

In the biggest surprise of the season...

"Harrell confirms he will be coming back."

Asset protection has worked a charm. As NBL knew it would, by issuing a slap with a feather for punching an opponent, then trying to hit a fan.

"United STILL keep employing the same announcer"

Because what matters to United is that their fans have a great time on game day. A handful of indiscretions over 30 years (which really boil down to being over-passionate and overstepping the line between professional announcer to pesky fan), aren't the number one consideration.

@AntAntAnt good point re Marcus Lee.

The NBL has issued sensible penalties with the punishment seeing to fitt the crime (Hodgson, Baynes, Lee)...until the defendant was an NBA 6th man of the year playing a key role in the biggest crowds and TV ratings in a long time.

Asset Protection. It's very transparent.

Barlow, 3rd time fined for leaving the bench to join a melee raises no extra fine?

Fair point re Barlow. You would expect the 3rd time would result in slightly higher fine.

Although, it's interesting you raise the idea of repeat offending.

Harrell and Davis have revealed themselves as complete hotheads, and have ensured targets on their backs for the rest of the season.

Chippy guys like Will Magnay and Rob Edwards might engage in subtle niggle and won't be taking a backwards step.

Oh well... At the end of the day hardly anyone would even know it happened unless you follow NBL Media. Because it sure hasn't been covered anywhere else apart from a few filler bits here and there.

If this happened in the AFL or even soccer, it'd be making way more noise. Maybe a positive for a league that gets ignored usually.

Not sure where you are but here in Adelaide it's been covered extensively by 7, 9, 10, ABC on the nightly news almost daily since it happened.

It's the most covered I've seen an NBL event by FTA in a long time, sucks but true.

Ah ok. In Adelaide I can understand that. Lots of interest there as there should be. Not much on it in Perth and news websites aren't really covering it much considering how big this is. Not much on social media apart from the NBL directly.

Great to hear its being covered so well in Adelaide though. That's good.

"which really boil down to being over-passionate and overstepping the line between professional announcer to pesky fan"

Wow LV, what a euphemism!

"Over-passionate anouncer" - more like unprofessional and provocative.
"Pesky fan" - more like obnoxious and obscene spectator

^ acts outside the league guidelines with impunity. Can't behave how he does, yet gets away with it under the auspices of being a scallywag. He tried starting a fight with the Kings last year and nothing was done. The guy literally wanted to fight players , he is a joke and is well beyond his use by date.

"Not much on it in Perth and news"

I'm from Melbourne and lived in the Kimberley for 18 months where all the news was from Perth.
Besides occasional federal political issues, nothing, I mean nothing from any state outside WA was ever mentioned on the news unless it had some sort of direct relation of effect on WA.

Fair enough, use whatever descriptions you desire but it doesn't change the central contention.

United are rightly more concerned with fan experience than worrying about a handful of indiscretions over several decades.

That was responding to knockdown. I don't remember a fight thing but still, it's a few incidents in 30 years

A few?

The guy has been suspended more than anyone else involved in the NBL and he doesn't even play LOL

How many times has he been suspended and how many games was he suspended for?

google has your answers

Exactly how do you uphold a life time ban on someone who you "can't" identify? How do door staff even have the tools to prevent that person from entering a stadium. Can't even do a bunnings and use facial recognition!

No doubt that execrable court announcer will probably sneek 'hoodie guy' into the venue the next time the 36ers play United there, you know just to see what happens.

"It's all fun", LV probably.

LV you're making a fool of yourself trying to defend the announcer. If that announcer creates a great fan experience that says a lot about the character of MU fans.

I chatted to a family whose first experience of the NBL was that game. I don't think they’re keen to go again. The announcer came in for particular criticism - I had to reassure them that he (and what happened at the game) wasn’t the standard.

I also recommended that they should go watch the Phoenix, to give the NBL a second chance.

That's the thing. The NBL wants to grow eyeballs and it is one thing to get people to watch some content on Channel 10 but another altogether to get them to actually attend their first live game. Most clubs will tell you that if you can get a family to a game there is a very high chance they will be immediately won over. I have heard parents after taking their children to their first game remark that the NBL has it all over all other live sport including the AFL. And you would think in the big markets and particularly Melbourne where there is so much competition in terms of live sport content that you would be doing everything you could to make the in game experience so good that people will want to come back.

"Not much on it in Perth and news"

I'm from Melbourne and lived in the Kimberley for 18 months where all the news was from Perth.
Besides occasional federal political issues, nothing, I mean nothing from any state outside WA was ever mentioned on the news unless it had some sort of direct relation of effect on WA.

So okay. Condemns Adelaide players as thugs and bringing game into disrepute by fighting.
Yet supports announcer that encourages violence, fact, THEN states Harrell and Davis have revealed themselves as complete hotheads, but Magnay and Edwards are "chippy" guys who'll engage in violence as well with subtle niggling, ie provoking players just for the sake of a confrontation that'll lead to another melee.
But hang on, aren't you against a bit of push and shove LV? Sounds like you are totally hypocritical in your comments. Are you going to support spectators being a bit chippy and mouthing off again with hate speech? Nothing wrong with that apparently unless they don't take a backwards step. Oops, another one of your contradictions. Someone that gets shoved by someone not involved in an escalating situation shouldn't take a backwards step according to your statement, so what is it then? If Cadee pushes Edwards, if as you suggest he targets Davis, it's ok for Edwards to strike him because he a chippy player that doesn't back down as opposed to being a hothead.
Just making it up as you go.
Can I ask what the difference is between a hothead and a chippy player is?

LV, hypocritical, noooo. lol.

"Hence my nickname."

Hahaha.

I haven't said anything about this game because I didn't attend

I'm merely making general comments based on having attended many games over the years.

In fact I asked (in the other thread) what he's supposed to have said, and no one answered

I'll ask again. Does anybody know?

If not, Sounds like we're all in the same boat

Frisbee I would've thought the difference between a chippy player and a hothead was obvious

A hothead loses their mind and goes troppo. Like the guy I played against the other week, got ejected and kept giving the ref a serve as he walked off

Chippy means you don't mind a niggle. Sometimes You might throw a little elbow if you think the ref isn't looking. You never back down from a fight. Sometimes it even appears you're looking for one. But you usually have the ability to remain calm,or regain composure before you totally lose it

To summarise, chippy is about your level of aggression and gamesmanship towards other players

Hothead is about losing focus mentally and losing control

They are totally different things

You can be chippy without being a hothead. Arguably Delly, Wagstaff, Kevin White, Mika Vukona are or were examples. Magnay I'd place here. Loves a scrap.

Hotheads much more likely to be chippy. Baynes was both. But not necessarily. Edwards might be both.

LV, are you sure your not confusing Magnay with Drmic? Magnay doesn't take a backward step and plays hard but I wouldn’t say he is aggressive as such. Anyway, each to their own.

Drmic better example of chippy than Magnay but I'd still call Magnay low-key chippy. He seems to like throwing his weight around

Drmic better example of chippy than Magnay but I'd still call Magnay low-key chippy. He seems to like throwing his weight around

wow this diatribe from LV is some interesting reading....

Hmmmm, so Edwards getting suspended for cracking it at refs after game wasn't a case of losing focus mentally and losing control. Must have been totally calm and composed. In fact a bit more than your hothead example of that player you mentioned who gave refs a serve as well.
As for Magnay, running the court and intentionally dropping his shoulder into Edwards resulting in being guilty of unduly rough play may be more hothead than chippy as well. In fact probably more force than Harrell's blow. Just purely ran at him and hit him intentionally, wasn't even in the heat of a scuffle. Looks like he lost focus mentally and control as well. Maybe have a look if you've forgotten.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2zPOM6SWv7/?igsh=MXRla29pNGZzZnExdg==

But of course you contradict yourself again


"They are totally different things.

Hotheads much more likely to be chippy. Baynes was both. But not necessarily. Edwards might be both."

So you say "totally different things" and follow it up with "Edwards might be both"

How can something be totally different yet also someone can be both?


Bit of a head scratcher there.

No doubt you'll have another go to try and explain yourself. But you're really loving the attention aren't you.

No idea what you're even talking about- Attention? What attention? I'm a nobody on the internet and so are you.

Feel free to disagree on my categorizations of other NBL players but there is no doubt Harrell and Davis have outed themselves as hotheads.

Those were two of the biggest toddler tantrums the NBL has seen in some time.

Opponents will have taken note, it would be naive to think otherwise.

Didn't answer the questions genius.
So are Edwards and Magnay hotheads or chippy according to your previous definitions? And thoughts on Magnays incident, did that deserve a suspension, or because it wasnt high profile it was purely ok.
And if reacting to racist comments are temper tantrums then it sums up what you are.
And you are loving all the attention, can't help yourself commentating can you.

And if you think it's a toddler temper tantrum, in the next couple of days walk up to a total stranger and make a racist comment to their face, then see what their reaction is.
But you won't because you know it will probably be similar. Or you think racism is ok and people of colour just over react to the whole thing, blm was just blown out of proportion, just like a toddler seeking attention. Words out of your own mouth.

Categorise Edwards or Magnay however you want - I was merely using them as examples in answering your question around the definitions of hothead and chippy

I've provided coherent definitions. Feel free to critique them

A temper tantrum is a temper tantrum. Racism hasn't been proven, it's been speculated. Harrell threw 2 tanty's- 1 at Loe and Ili, the 2nd at a spectator. Totally a scene of a hothead.

Of course I enjoy commenting. But there's no true attention when no one knows who either of us are.

This is what it comes down to for LV:

"Racism hasn't been proven, it's been speculated."

It is a ditch he will defend to the end.


We are now in a place where the rights of those being racist are more than those on the receiving end.


The qualifying statements out of MU are sad .....we are unsure, investigations are pending etc etc legalise crap.

In adversity there is opportunity they could categorically come out and say if racist comments occurred we strongly condemn them. Without riders! During COVID I accessed funding to manage a psycho social support program that is still going - this would not have occurred if people did not become isolated etc the program continues and is effective (with research based measures)

Another angle that i despise is the constant character assasination of Harrell.....I likr how he owned his respondibility straight after the game and has continued to do so.

He has voiced and opinion on the lack of consistency / application of sanctions on all involved and he has a very valid point and a right to.

"There were certainly comments of a racist nature that were taken into account."
NBL CEO David Stevenson

MU didnt look that hard or far to find anything negative about their own fanbase.

The weirdest thing from this whole incident to me is
The NBL have given a lifetime ban to a MU fan
Who has yet to be identified.
Three major newspapers published a clear photo of his face and that is all rhey have to do on
That photo has been distributed to every NBL venue across the country to enforce the ban
But how is it MU don't know who hoodie man is ?

If someone else bought his ticket and won’t identify them then surely that purchaser also gets the lifetime ban?
In this day and age how is it no one can identify him ? ?

The fan is probably a money man, he's mates with somebody up high in the nbl.

Wow, apart from United I didn't think it was not accepted that a racial slur was made. Their whole I didn't hear it so it didn't happen is pretty pathetic, and so are the people that ignore it as well.
So still waiting how two things are totally different but someone can be both. Just shows the flawed logic which can be applied to the rest of lvs arguments.
And Harrell may carry on a fair bit, but has Davis ever fired up before? So reacting to racist comments is a toddler tantrum still? So I still challenge you to make a racist comment and then tell them their reaction is childish.

Agree, Davis has generally shown a pretty good temperament so far throughout this season. Took a fair few hard hits in the Cairns game a few weeks ago and showed no sign of losing his cool.

It's clear something particularly nasty was said to set him off and it has been pretty clearly reported what that was.

Agree with above sentiments - United's lack of pro-active and categorical condemnation of racist slurs by their fan has been unprofessional at best, and far below the standard that they portray themselves as.

What Dunkman said regarding the guy having some $ might be the case

I also subscribe to the money theory regarding hoodie man

Anybody in those seats probably has $$ to contribute to MU. Even so, spectator Ibrahim got 10 years, and hoodie man just cannot be identified LOL

Agree that MU's hypocrisy is really standing out.

Surprised that LK would put up with that shit from them.

Follow the money, it's what my wife always says to me, and it’s right most of the times.

T shirt guy owns a crash repair shop and has a very dubious past according to some. No wonder he doesn't want to say who he was entertaining at the game. Noted that LK hasn't denied the allegations that these people are well known to him.

MU players know exactly who they are. Newley was yelling the guys name whilst trying to get them to clam down.

@ Q Anon, exactly what I was told, it's all a bit of a mystery.

Do you all think racist comments should excuse aggression by players towards fans?

And I would be careful about reading too much into comments from a CEO. Any CEO.

Joey Wright sums up the incident between Loe and Harrell exactly how it happened. I'm glad Sixers have moved on but they got screwed. As a neutral I’ll certainly be hoping that Sixers have a good season. On the other side of the coin I’ve always liked how united went about it, I’ll be hoping against them.

Boti & Joey's new episode is up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBOUpbOw34Y&ab_channel=TimeOut-NOFLOPZONE

Joey offerring to give Olgun a bit of a pointer on punches to the face at 9.00 in was hilarious.

I haven't watched Joey and yet but I did listen to John Casey on "NBL Now" a few days ago. Interesting to note that the doyen of NBL commentators also thinks the Sixers were hard done by...

I agreed with you on a few points earlier LV, but seriously?

I can rattle off dozens of players in different codes who have allegedly been racially abused by crowd members and not one of them has got into a physical confrontation. Certainly they've gotten verbal and called for ground staff, security or Police to get involved, but not physical.

Call it being professional, the bigger man or whatever else you want. And by all means even lay some blame on MU or the NBL for not having enough security or staff present to deal with the situation. But physical contact between players and spectators is not justified in any circumstances.

Unbelievable, LV you get absolutely pantsed denying there was any racist comments and shown to be wrong. Instead of accepting it, you go into a tin foil statement that any ceo is a liar.
Then your bizarre contradictory statement that a hothead and a chippy player are totally different, then immediately say they can be the one and same.
Apparently doesn't like violence, but is happy for someone that doesn't take a backwards step to resort to violence.
You've talked so much crap you've backed yourself into a corner.
As for aggression towards fans after a racist comment, I say yes unless underage or female. But have to accept the consequences, if punched then 10 games is least of problems. So many people think that buying a ticket should give them protection when in the real world they wouldn't say the same thing because they would cop a smack in the face. You can't comment on the life experiences of Davis and Harrell in this case. I would be very interested what Melbournes black players think of their own clubs silence on the matter. But then according to you there wasn't any hate speech. But if there was they should just take a seat metres in front of these idiots and ignore it.
Anyway, just keep flapping your gums and continue sinking because you're in the realms of total idiocy now. But you just like the attention and your 5 minutes of fame. Keep sticking up for the racists champ!

@Damo75 you've misunderstood me

We agree entirely.

That's been my point all along- whether or not racist comments happened, That's one thing which should be investigated, with appropriate penalties for the fans.

But Harrell and Davis's behaviour was totally unacceptable regardless.

@Frisbee happy not to respond further since you've proven comprehension isn't your strong suit.

If you're more interested in arguing points than understanding what's being said, you can continue conversing with yourself.

Nawww, getting too hard so not going to converse anymore. That's a bit hot-headed. Or is it chippy? Are you copping out because it's gotten too hard.
It's just interesting that you're more concerned about the reactions of victims of racism than the actual act itself. They've got their punishment, 1-2 games reflecting how the one person tribunal viewed it as opposed to the 10 games maximum.
Get proven wrong and you can't even admit it. You show more support to the boofhead spectators, disgusting announcer and head stuck in sand management. Can't even admit there was a racist comment made, that the players for some reason decided to attack some poor fans for the hell of it.
If anyone has been made to look bad and foolish it's you.
Goodnight princess.

"I would be very interested what Melbournes black players think of their own clubs silence on the matter"

I thought the same thing.
Especially in the abscence of any categorical condemnation of the fan's behaviour by the club.

The club and the league wont be commentating on the racist comments from the MU spectators due to litigation proceedings. The CEO podcast confirming that racism was involved got pulled quite quickly.

It's shameful how MU have handled this IMO. All they had to do was phone the 36ers staff on the day and start a conversation, then they would know that racism was involved. Instead they made the ridiculous press release.

No one has the right to say that Davis and Harell reacted wrong or right because we dont know what it is to be them and walk in their shoes.

There is a local American legend who once had a shot gun shoved in his mouth post game by a white fan for embarrassing that guys team. You cant say what is a fair and just reaction to racism. That guy handles racist comments very differently to the next person.

@Frisbee again, I only continue discussing with people who exhibit the ability to follow along with simple points being made.

If understanding that two things can be different, while someone can be both, is too challenging a concept for you to grasp then I'll happily stop there.

"Joey Wright sums up the incident between Loe and Harrell exactly how it happened. I'm glad Sixers have moved on but they got screwed."

Adelaide got looked after very well. No suspension for striking charges and minimal suspensions for physical altercations with spectators.

Joey Wright: "you should always protect players"

Same guy who punched his starting guard when he coached Adelaide.

I guess that was racism because the guy he punched was white???

[Adelaide got looked after very well. No suspension for striking charges and minimal suspensions for physical altercations with spectators.]

Mouse you're stating the obvious.

But it's pointless when people don't wanna hear it.

In your opinions, certainly not in mine, Wright explained it perfectly. We in this country still don't get thrown out of windows for having different opinions. Maybe be you are living in the wrong country. Adelaide got screwed.

Ill weigh in

Ili should have been suspended ( Peatling on Creek reference for once) for being 3rd man in 1/2 games.

Harell should have been suspended 2 games for striking Ili

Barlows 3rd time coming off the bench and going into a melee 2/3 game suspension , regardless if he was being the peacekeeper this is very much the golden rule of basketball.

Davis and Harell should have been warned at least and fined at worst for the spectator event. I still haven't seen footage of either of them touching a spectator. Weston and DJ definitely touched the spectators and nothing was mentioned about that.

MU should have, in my view, received sanctions for the game night operations and warnings about future behaviour of the MC.

Comparing Ili's actions to Peatling/Creek just illustrates how far from serious your comments are.

Q Anon I am not sure anyone cares that you haven't seen the footage of Harrell and Davis making contact. Adelaide have and that is why they DID NOT appeal the verdict.

That is incorrect

um no

Wait until the sanctions are announced for Melbourne having a DP defending Harell are announced, this place will go into meltdown.

Hahahaha

NBL has given all clubs a very stern warning that any repeat of this won't be tolerated and clubs will be held accountable.

I think we can assume that if it had been Cadee and Dech instead of the two imports, they would have been out for the maximum weeks. NBL looking after its image and cash flow.

Still don't understand why Barlow and the MC got off scot-free. United ARE a protected species, it seems.

LV and Anonymightmouse both say that the 36ers got off lightly

Both are ridiculing me for sharing what the 36ers defence strategy was

Interesting.

Seems the defence strategy was taken into account and worked, but what would I know.

Nah, he got off lightly because he's Montrezl Harrell, not because of your wild stories.

I predicted it'd happen before you even commented.

And it happened as predicted.

If thats what you believe then good luck to you. Going by your theory Harell should have been suspended less than Davis.

The 1 man panel was a lawyer.
He would not want to have left room for appeal, particularly around the on court incident where the NBL effectively set a precedent with MU fines.
His lighter penalty for Trez would no doubt have been impacted by the fines handed out to Ili and Barlow for the same incident.
Do you think he didn't judge severity of each parties against each other.
Ili in particular being 3rd man in and being a major reason for the escalation only getting a $500 fine set the tone so he really couldn't give Trez anything more than he did

If all 4 cases were referred to park, we may have seen hasher penalties for all involved in on court stuff

*referred to panel

Davis benefited by association.

They couldn't be grossly inconsistent with events occurring simultaneously, and still risk p*ssing off Harrell.

"He would not want to have left room for appeal, particularly around the on court incident where the NBL effectively set a precedent with MU fines."

The penalties were directly from the matrix the NBL has in place. No precedent was set, they simply classified the incidents and applied the relevant penalty.

Peter, lawyer are paid to get results, they are not judges. Sixers excepted the punishment for the good of the league and Harrell probably an extended stay with family imo. As I said previously, Joey Wright summed it up perfectly in a podcast. As I said, I don't support either side and know spectators who are United fans very close to the incident that tell a different story. Again re the lawyer, who pays him ?, lawyers are there to get results for their employer.

Ultimately Larry pays Montrezl so he will be collecting the fines anyway

Shock horror, we didn't see Koppens on court yesterday after White's return from injury.

And Leupepe was bumped by Loe, but he didn't retaliate by punching someone in the jaw and getting physical with fans.

I guess that's why we didn't see another melee.

Don't forget, Harrell's actions were all United's fault!

You realise Loe got a Tech for shoving someone right ?

Does that makes any difference to my point?

Sorry I misunderstood, I thought you may see that United may have been culpable for anything that they start. Carry on.

Just using some examples from yesterday's game to illustrate the points that the sane, level-headed observers were making over the past fortnight

So what you're saying is the United crowd didn’t go feral this time around?

That’s a nice change.

"Turtles all the way down"

Question is what's typical, regular, and what crosses the line.

Yesterday provides you with a clue.

Development player Campbell Blogg is on court during the 1st quarter in NZ

Clearly this is a United ploy to incite PJC into suspension-worthy behaviour!

Investigate United immediately!

UPDATE:

CAMPBELL BLOGG FOULED PJC!

QAnon, you better contact the NBL Integrity Unit.

Give it a rest, we are allowed different opinions to you.

Have whatever opinion you want.

Just make sure you're paying attention so your opinions are based on something.

My opinion is based on what I saw and Joey Wrights perspective of it all. I'm paying attention you are just parroting your teams good luck.

Anyone on the Joey Wright bandwagon on any element needs to upgrade their meds

DJV on nothing but net saying Harrell and Davis were racially vilified and he was there. I love what LK has done but it's a cover up to afl standards.

Casey on commentary today also saying they were unfairly treated. He's as fair a commentator there is.