Years ago

HSH: Nothing ever got built by complaining

Hoop fans, I just wanted to say, can we all give complaints about High Stakes Hoops a rest? What purpose does it serve?

Like many of you, I tuned in to see an empty stadium for the start of the first match. But then I thought, who am I to care that there aren't a lot of bums on seats at 11:30am on a weekday? No surprises there, but its not costing me anything.

So I put that aside and you know what? I enjoyed TWO good games of basketball (Monarchs v Cyclones and Fleet v Rush) in one day. I got to see some old faces and a bunch of new talent, some of whom may well be in NBL uniforms next season. Timeouts and breaks between quarters were minimised, so the game flowed nicely, instead of being interrupted every few minutes. The 4 point power plays were a good innovation and have already turned at least one game.

So I wish people would stop complaining long enough to realise that JVG and co have actually bothered to bring us 5 days of wall to wall basketball on high def TV! Lets be positive about this event so that we might get something bigger and better in years to come. Maybe the NBL can get involved in future and someone can build on this idea, turning it into an international tournament involving club teams from Asia?

Leave the outsiders to criticise. If the faithful are complaining about the event, then why would anyone outside basketball give it a go? As people who love hoops, we should all be encouraging guys like JVG to keep investing their time and effort in our game.

If you support basketball people who try to make good things happen for the sport, I encourage you to add your comments to this thread. Lets show the High Stakes Hoops organisers that people appreciate their efforts and that we want more of it!

p.s. - I am not part of the High Stakes Hoops group and have never met any of them. This is just coming from a fan who enjoyed seeing some good basketball today and wants more!

Topic #22675 | Report this topic

Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Agree. Was a good show and I enjoyed the day. Bit expensive and would've preferred a "season pass" for the whole week but that said, was good to catch up with some old friends I hadn't seen for a while and the action, though at times a bit pedestria, was pretty darn good. Well worth a look and if you don't go down there this week to at least see one game live, you're missing out.

Reply #273039 | Report this post

Years ago

Watched several games on OneHD and for the most part liked what I watched.

Some new faces looking for NBL contracts and to show case their skills. I would like to see this developed into an annual event that allows free agents to show case their talents.

Publicity needs to improve but congrats to OneHD for showing it other wise it could really fly underneath the radar.

Reply #273052 | Report this post

Years ago

Well said Beantown, I couldn't have put it any better myself. I will be attending all day tomorrow and would've gone all week but most of us have to work to pay mortgages and bills.

Reply #273057 | Report this post

Years ago

wouldve helped if the NBL mentioned it on their website...

Reply #273058 | Report this post

Years ago

my ex and I built our whole relationship round her complaining, so I disagree Beantown

Reply #273069 | Report this post

Years ago

Bean, I only half agree. Complaining can give insight into problems worth solving or things worth improving next time. It's worth giving feedback and trying to make the most of the situation.

e.g., crowds, ticketing, website, stats, etc are all a bit poor (and worth the discussion) but I still watched 3.5 games of HSH yesterday and found it interesting.

Made me wonder about a HSH-type thing replacing the NBL Blitz. Cash prize, modified rules, but use the NBL teams. And 40 min games. They can trial imports or use SEABL fill-ins, but it's in their best interest to put in their best and try to win the money. And have entry free and sponsored by someone. Shift the event from NBL city to city each year. Run it in the evenings and have it broadcast the next day.

Reply #273074 | Report this post

Years ago

Couldnt agree more Beantown, you are usually a voice of reason. It is not perfect, but nothing is. And given this is the first year I think they have done pretty well.

No, it's not like watching the NBL, but that is an established pro league. But there is some entertaining ball being played, even if a little loose, and it is great to see young talent like Chris Goulding, Todd Blachfield, Daniel Dillon, Sedale Threat and others showing off their talent.

Australia needs a good second tier where good young players can shine and this gives this in a small way. I would love to see two tournaments a year in the autumn and winter school holidays, and perhaps as Isaac said, an NBL version in the spring school holidays as a pre-season tournament.

The potential is there, and this has been a good start. Just remember that there has been no more than one hour per week of aussie basketball on commercial television since 2001, and this week we are getting 30.

Two suggestions for ECB - get in touch with every school holiday program in the town you run it in and give them free tickets to bring their kids.

Also, run an event in a big local stadium like Knox or Dandenong where kids already go in their holidays to shoot hoops during the day.

Reply #273077 | Report this post

Camel 31  
Years ago

Doing it in the free agency period adds a bit, don't you think.

Reply #273079 | Report this post

Years ago

Yep, definitely adds a bit for the young Aussie guys, who were the story of the first day. The winter school holiday tournament would be a good time to bring out prospective imports.

Reply #273082 | Report this post

Years ago

Isaac, I agree that a few constructive comments (such as what you gave above) are useful. This thread is directed at the people who come on here and their only comments are negative. I felt there was far too much attention given to the small crowd. I noticed it, everyone noticed it, but the only people it costs anything are the people who are running the event.

I'm hoping people will focus on the most important thing this week - the basketball being played - and show a bit of enthusiasm that we have 30 hours of live basketball on FTA for the first time in a decade!

Reply #273089 | Report this post

Years ago

Camel, I think you're right about this being held during free agency. There are a lot of guys out there playing their butts off for contracts. There's plenty of aggression out there too. I think in the first game, a Monarchs player made a big block at the basket on a Cyclones player (think it might have been Brown) and gave him heaps afterward.

Reply #273091 | Report this post

Years ago

Agree Beantown. The on-court product, at least in the games that I saw (1st and 3rd) was entirely decent, and a good showcase for the players involved.

This is clearly a made-for-TV product and one can only hope that the extreme lack of crowd has been made up by some extent by the kids on school holidays tuning in.

As for constructive comments - perhaps if we're going 48-minutes with jumpballs, the NBA 3pt line and zone defense rules should be used?

Reply #273092 | Report this post

Years ago

Too many honkies.

Reply #273094 | Report this post

Years ago

Agree Beantown!

Isaac- so you accept complaints for HSH but never for NBL?!?! you can't be serious. as soon as people critisize NBL in anyway you start defense guard like crazy.

Reply #273097 | Report this post

Years ago

...the only people it costs anything are the people who are running the event.
I'm not so sure. As I've said elsewhere, this could impact the NBL also.

Any fringe NBL fans who see tiny crowds in the background could take away thoughts that basketball in Australia is worse than ever.

A little scrolling footer every 15 minutes could help explain what HSH is, that it's a cash-prize, TV tournament being held for the first time.

Some people (target market for growing the NBL) could tune in, see Carfino, Bradtke and various NBL players and wonder if this was a replacement for the NBL, with new team names, etc. Wouldn't put it past a few people thinking that.

Reply #273098 | Report this post

Bobby Tables  
Years ago

As usual, Isaac is on the money...

If the NBL were in a stronger position, it would be a lesser problem. But as the NBL is trying to re-establish itself as a top shelf league in Australia, people tuning in to see no crowd could assume that although this isn't the NBL - that the NBL itself is no better.

Your average pie eating beer swilling football following punter might be like:

"Basketball? oh I saw that on One HD, there was no one there, it looked boring"

"That wasn't NBL, it was a week long tournament"

"Same thing"

Basically anything that reflects badly on basketball at the moment could be damaging to the NBL. Regardless of how good the tournament is or isn't (at it's core I think the idea is a good one), it can reflect on Australian basketball no matter how standalone it is.

Reply #273102 | Report this post

Years ago

HSH, I have been offering criticism and suggestions for the NBL and many things around it for years and years!

Reply #273103 | Report this post

Years ago

Bobby and Isaac, of course it would have been better to have bigger crowds in the stands. You both make good points about the crowds that I agree with. My point was that there is not much most of us can do about any of that, so instead of harping on it, lets focus on the positives more.

TC2, whats a Honkie? And how many is too many?

Reply #273133 | Report this post

Years ago

In fairness, I'd say Egyptian slaves complained a BUTTLOAD about being whipped all day long. Still, it ended up with some pretty kick ass pyramids with freaky cats and stuff drawn on them.

Just sayin' is all.

Reply #273168 | Report this post

LA Boy  
Years ago

I actually think the players involved in this competition is higher standards than that of NBL as a whole (obviously it involves some NBL stars).

On the contrary to what many suggested, I heard today Ch10 is actually happy with the way this is turning out and has just signed contract extension for this to be on TV in future.

Also, the amount of scouts and coaches that has turned up to this event is probably leading audiences to think this is an elite scouting event of some sort that help players showcasing their skills for the NBL?!?! if this is their mind-set then I don't think it'll be that bad for NBL.

Another positive, a state junior basketball player said to me today he'll rather watch HSH over NBL because the game is more entertaining.

So I believe give it sometime, this will be great competition in future. I know these guys are already learning through mistakes and already they are setting rules for commitments from players in future; instead of literally showing up on the day, they will be required to arrive much earlier etc.

Reply #273190 | Report this post

Years ago

Beantown, its all a matter of opinion based on your situation. I have to work everyday that this event is on. As a basketball fan, I welcomed some good basketball to watch post NBL but when it comes during my working time, then I find it frustrating.

Reply #273199 | Report this post

Bobby, you make a good point about the footy-pie eating ppl seeing empty seats, but the 5 year (?) Free To Air NBL basketball deal will put the NBL back in the public eye. Young un's will choose to go see a game before hitting the town. The crowds will return.

As happened in the 80's, ppl will get educated and start, or return to the game.

Don't remember who suggested it, but getting Vacation Care kids on the buses to the HSH would be a good idea. $5 a kid?

Reply #273204 | Report this post

bear the 2nd  
Years ago

Kids in for free with paying parent tomorrow. Does that mean a whole bus can get in with the one uni kid doing the vacation care program?

Reply #273210 | Report this post

Years ago

fans were never gonna spend $50 x 5 days, $250. more i think about it, it's obvious free tickets should have been covered by a sponsor to the 1000s of teens on holidays. but.. let's see if the 36er fans come out for friday's semi's and sundays final, then we'll see whatsup. regardless, ecb will learn from it, as far as the talent, sponsors and ... See morepresentation, it's all positive... but if you take $10K out of that 250K pool and put it towards promotions and free tickets, it woulda been the same thing but a half decent crowd. still, loving it on One!

Reply #273256 | Report this post

Years ago

EC, sure you can't get to the game, but you can always set the record button and watch the game at night.

This was a made for tv tournament. ONE wanted daytime content that would finish before the Indian Premier League starts and that is exactly what it has got.

The price you pay is small crowds and that may encourage some people to switch off, but I think anyone who gave the games a chance would have got some entertainment value. If they didn't, well it doesn't matter anyway, because they obviously don't like basketball enough.

Reply #273278 | Report this post

Years ago

Don't know about you, but I am watching the on court action, not the crowd. As Beantown said, it is a made for TV event, which coincidently started just after the NCAA Tournament finished. It is cheap local content and is a good chance for the OneHD people to look at production, commentating, etc in preparation for the 2010/11 NBL season.

Reply #273302 | Report this post

Years ago

I actually think the players involved in this competition is higher standards than that of NBL as a whole (obviously it involves some NBL stars).
I disagree. Not many of the non-NBL imports in the comp have dominated. Homicide and Hodge have got their numbers, but are both NBL players. Farley is one of the only consistent non-NBL players putting up big numbers.

On top of that, think about which NBL players are not in this comp: Ballinger, Redhage, Worthington, Bruton, Penney, Rickert, Tragardh, Petrie, Ubaka, Davidson, Saville, Hinder, Holmes, Herbert, Maxey, Vukona, Jones, Rychart, Johnson, Burston, Wagstaff, etc. 12 out of 15 of the All-NBL team players are not in HSH.

The Reef are doing pretty well but have one NBL-rotation player, 2-3 imports (from memory) and then the rest are ex-NBL or fringe-NBL.

Reply #273325 | Report this post

Years ago

mike helms has been pretty good, same with keith borgan (is that his name?)

Reply #273330 | Report this post

Years ago

I have some constructive criticisms to add -

I like the fact that this tournament is getting FTA television coverage, and it does look like it's well put together, with legit sponsorship and some serious prize money on offer and some decent talent (NBL standard for the most part - a mix of familiar names, unknown imports and talented locals).

However, the promotion and timing of the event has been poor, and this is obviously reflected in the crowd turnout. There's been next to no advertising here in SA - if you weren't a part of the basketball community, or didn't see the ads on OneHD (which gave no detail besides the name of the tournament), you wouldn't even know the event was on. It would have been better to run it over the Easter weekend, and actually advertise that it's happening. It's meant to be an event to get the casuals interested in the sport, yet it's held on weekdays when most people are at work. Adults can't go or watch on television because they're working, and kids can't get to the event without adults. They could have made it a massive family event over the long weekend.

I'd like to see the playing rosters limited to basketballers with Australian citizenship only. Give the local players more of a chance to showcase their skills. If you're a half decent player worthy of being bought in as an import, you're already playing professionally somewhere in the world, so people will know about you. There's probably plenty of Aussie guys in the levels below the NBL that are dying for the type of exposure they could get in a tournament like this. I know the imports are there to draw the crowds, but we've got to do something to continue to nurture home-grown talent too.

Reply #273489 | Report this post

Years ago

My complaints about the concept are to do with the teams. I just could not care less about the "Fleet" or the "Reef". So I find myself not caring about the score, and eventually, not caring about the game, regardless of how close it is. I am like that with AFL too unless it's the Crows playing, but if i have to watch Richmond V Essendon, i nearly fall asleep.

Whereas watching NBL or NBA or NCAA, I usually, more often than not, prefer one team over the other, and therefore it peaks my interest.

I think Boti's idea of 'localizing' the teams, e.g state based, so the Fleet could be the 'SA Fleet', would certainly make it more interesting for me at least. A State of Origin concept, would be brilliant i think and would definitely get more bums on seats.

Reply #273583 | Report this post

Years ago

I have read through all the posts in this thread and sort of agree with everyone to some extent.

Constructive criticism can only help improve this concept.

I would like to see this tourney evolve into a recruiting type tournament, sort of like the NBA Summerleague or the collegiate Portsmouth Invitational for the senior graduates. A combination of these two established events, maybe throw in the NBL free agents and NBL fringe players (ABA etc) and other overseas players wishing to pick up an NBL import contract. Anyway, it is something worth considering...

I have been sitting in front of the TV all week watching and I must say it beats daytime TV! I have enjoyed most of the games, and it is good to see new talent trying to make it's way through. I have loved seeing Chris Goulding take up the chance of being a focal point in offence, seeing Blanchfield explode in his team's first game, seeing Bennett Davison return to Australia's shores with a clear desire to play in the NBL - complete with improved jumpshot. And to see that JR can still hoop with the best of them.

Thay's my rant on the HSH. Great concept, needs a bit of work, and a whole lot more lead-up promotion next time around. I just hope they stick with the idea and the opportunity to build on something that has a lot of potential IMO.

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