Isaac
Years ago

Heat vs Pacers, Game 1

Halftime. Pacers have a narrow lead.

What's your call on the series? Who and in how many games?

Heat in 6?

ESPN's panel have unanimously picked the Heat, but range from 5-7 games.

Would love to see the Pacers upset them!

Topic #31738 | Report this topic


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

The whole series should be dissected into a few minutes at a time for Indiana. They are prone to having lapses in concentration (even though fans see them as the pinnacle of consistency), and it will be in those little lapses where Miami take control, they always do. It will be a very even series and Indiana will probably win one or even two, but Miami will be too consistent.

Wade is going to have a massive series also.

Reply #419854 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Pacers' wings need to knock down the long ball to make Miami back off West and Dr Hibbert... 1 3p FG made through three quarters is a tough way to go about winning a ball game when you have a massive advantage inside.

Reply #419858 | Report this post


Bobby Tables  
Years ago

OT!

Reply #419866 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

I'm just following the livestats. What the hell is going here at the end of OT? Why is George shooting so many free throws was it a flagrant on Wade? Stats feed isn't clear...

Reply #419870 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

3 foul shots, fouled on a three, then they gave up a lay up to Lebron on the buzzer I believe.

Reply #419871 | Report this post


Gordon Liddy  
Years ago

What a right old fashion barn bernah!!!

Reply #419872 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

How did the Pacers give up a game winning layup on a two second possession?!

Reply #419873 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

No idea will be watching the replay tonigh. Damn. Looks like a great game apart from the result ;)

Reply #419875 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

He messed around and got a triple double as well.

Reply #419876 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Stupid, stupid Pacers.

Reply #419877 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

Sorry for triple post but apparently Vogel benched Hibbert on that last play. WTF!!

Poor coaching decision there IMO.

Reply #419878 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

witness

Reply #419881 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Stupid, stupid Vogel.

Reply #419882 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Quite simple, guys. With such little time left, the defensive team will want to switch on everything. Hence putting in the quicker and more agile Hansbrough. I would have done the same thing.

Reply #419885 | Report this post


Speed44  
Years ago

So many questions about Vogel down the stretch.

Hibbert's benching on those last 2 layups by LeBron. The lack of instruction to foul LBJ once he spun past George on the final play. Having said that, the players should have been aware that a foul would have been a smart thing to do then as well.

Even as a Heat fan, I would've loved to have seen the Pacers take Game 1 and homecourt.

Reply #419886 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

So stupid. All that is doing is trying to adapt to the opponent's gameplan instead of forcing them to overcome yours.

Paul Woolpert did it all last year, benching Luke Nevill down the stretch because he couldn't "switch", with predictably terrible results and tonnes of opposition layups. You don't pull out your best rim protector on the one possession of the game that you need the rim protected.

Sooo dumb.

There isn't time to take advantage of a switch on a two second game anyway, and there isn't enough time for a drive and dish. So Lebron beats Paul, Hibbert steps up, Lebron has to finish over Hibbert because if he hands it off the clocks goes off before the next guy can shoot.

Stupid, stupid Vogel.

Reply #419888 | Report this post


Speed44  
Years ago

^ Yep.

Reply #419889 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Mick, you're wrong. You're saying that the defence should defend a certain way regardless of what the offence is doing. How would that turn out? The concept of defence is to stop offence, right? Last second inbound offences include lots of off-ball movement and screens, because how else are offensive players going to get open. Those possessions are all about covering as much ground as possible on defence. Thus, more agile guys are needed.

P.s. You do realise that players move before the ball is inbounded, meaning a two-second possession is more like five or more seconds.

Reply #419890 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Also, you can't protect the rim if your man comes out to the three point to set a screen, can you? All Miami would do is force Hibbert to the perimeter. That means no run protection and a slow big man on the court.

Reply #419891 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

You know Lebron is going to shoot it and you know he's going to try to get to the rim. He's the kind of guy that won't settle for a long jumper on a game clinching shot. His history of last second possessions over the past couple of seasons will show you that.

You need a rim protector. You force him into Hibbert, let him "exploit" the double team with a hand off to one of their bigs and let someone else beat you. Buzzer sounds, Pacers "W". Or Lebron finishes over Hibbert, or he tries to and misses. All better options than what they went with. At least ask the "question"...can Lebron beat his man and finish over one of the biggest, best defensive bigs in the league? The question they did ask, "can Lebron beat anyone in the league one on one?" is not the right question to be asking, because we all know the answer to that one...

Reply #419892 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

No rim protection*

Reply #419893 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Mick, I disagree again. He has been publicly criticised for taking jumpshots in the clutch in lieu of a hard attack at the rim. So yes, he would take a jumpshot in that scenario. You're totally wrong when you say that his history will prove your point.

That entire last paragraph is void. Refer to my comment above. Everyone in the league knows Hibbert protects the rim well, so Miami run a play to force him to the perimeter. Very simple. Vogel knows Miami will do that, so he substitutes Hibbert for a faster guy who can handle himself better on the perimeter.

Reply #419897 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

I personally think James would take a jumpshot to win the game instead of taking it in, circumstance pending. Either way, Miami still force Hibbert to the perimeter where he is ineffective.

Reply #419898 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

And Vogel loses the game.

Lebron was publically criticised in the PAST for taking jumpers in clutch situations. Look at the last 18 months and you'll see a different story. He is a VERY self-aware player and absorbs all criticism in his strive to be a more efficient player. No way is he shooting from deep in a one point game. He's attacking.

A point-blank layup by the best finisher of all time is not the ideal way to end a game clinching defensive possession.

And I've never actually seen this strategy work. It always gets vehemently defended by the losing coach who resorts to it but you never see it pay off. The theory is fine but the results are never there.

Reply #419899 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Can you prove what you're saying? You document all the last second inbound plays do you?

Reply #419900 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Common strategy to have a switching lineup for last second plays and usually a very good one. If Hibbert cant switch the guy his man screens gets an open look.

Reply #419901 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

And just to clarify, I'm not an idiot. I know Lebron would take it to the rim more often than not. But he will settle for a jumper once in a while. He's smart enough to know that the bustling drives to the rack don't always pay off.

Reply #419905 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Hibbert doesn't have to float out of the paint.

I would have thrown a modified of zone at them with the starting five and parked Hibbert square under the rim; clogged the paint right up, or even just played them straight up and lived with the consequences.

Lebron is thinking about the criticism of playing passive and the failed series against Dallas, there is no doubt about that: it drives him every game. It's playing through his mind and he's attacking in every clutch situation since that series.

And with 2 ticks on the clock there isn't enough time to suck a zone in to free up a shooter.

It also sends a bad message to Hibbert for the rest of the series: "you are renowned as a top 3 defensive big man in this league but I don't trust you with the game on the line", especially to a guy that has struggled with massive mind/confidence issues already for most of this season.

Every time I see a coach do this, every time I shake my head. I can understand it when you have an offensive minded big out there who is going to get lost on D, but you just paid this dude max money to be a defensive presence and youre leaving him sitting while Lebron mosies his way to a 1-0 conference finals lead?

Nah. I couldn't live with that.

I could live with a deep contested jumper though.

Hibbert is smart enough to make the right play.

Reply #419906 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

LBJ GOAT

Reply #419907 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

Really, you would take a defender away from the rim IN CASE he takes a jump shot?

Terrible coaching, force him to take the jumpshot, if you lose on a jumper ok, if you lose on a layup??? It is bad coaching.

Make the other team play into your hands, force him to take the contested shot and live with the result, if he is too good, so be it. But take a big man out and defend the perimeter???

Why cahenge your lineup to suit what they have on the floor, make them adjust I think..
Anyway seems like it will be good to watch.

Reply #419911 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

It's all about winning, Mick. From what I've seen of Hibbert, he doesn't have a massive ego, so sitting out the possession should be fine. This is really a nothing point because the Pacers do not seem to be one of those egotistical franchises. Hibbert knows it's for the greater good.

Yeah no doubt Lebron works on his game as you say, but he's not going bull-in-a-china-shop every time is he? That really is irrelevant when it comes to the Hibbert debate, Because the quicker guy (Hansbrough in this instance) will get through the screen quicker and close put better on the jumpshot, or if Lebron drives, the quicker guy has more chance of disrupting ths shot.

Draw yourself a couple of diagrams and see how your modified zone will go with the guys Miami had on the floor. It ends in tears for you again. Open looks all over the floor because there is time for a quick pass once the ball is inbounded.

Reply #419912 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Db5, your points are the same as Mick's and they are terrible. Defences have to react to what the offence does. It's so simple.

Agree to disagree.

Reply #419913 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

They are terrible? ok sorry Mr P.Jackson.

Okay, with 2.2 seconds left, why would you guard the inbounds, and NOT double Lebron?

And what height was in to block the layup or shot?
Hansborough who is the same height as lebron? Nice move, of course he was licking his chops and going to the hole. Or someone 15 cm taller who can block shots?

Cannot believe you would give up a certain layup, or a 50/50 jumpshot.

Reply #419914 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

AND Paul George is major clutch!! This should be noted.

3 pointer to force overtime, and then 3 foul shots at the death, the man has ice in his veins!

To bad no one will remember thanks to Vogel.

Reply #419916 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Good points statsheet stuffer, and like I said I am not debating your theory here: the point you are overlooking is that Lebron took his guy off the dribble and made a layup at the rim to win the game and there was nothing the Pacers could do about it. I'm not debating about the way it was drawn up and the hypothesised cause/effect scenario, I'm questioning whether the theory correlates with how these things generally play out.

I'll give up an open look from deep before I let Lebron get something off in the paint, any day of the week.

The fact is, it played right into their hands, and the second Lebron saw Hibbert sitting he knew he was going straight at the rim and either finishing or drawing a foul.

So yeah, agree to disagree. I give up the three, you give up the shot at the rim.

Reply #419919 | Report this post


WTF  
Years ago

If George didn't overplay LeBron's right and stayed in between him and the basket, the Hibbert discussion becomes moot.

Reply #419920 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

"I would say we would probably have him in next time," Vogel said.




Reply #419921 | Report this post


rohant16  
Years ago

That's a shit way to lose

Reply #419922 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Man, my apologies about calling your points terrible, DB5.

Okay, so suppose Hibbert is camped at the rim and doesn't step up to Lebron, there's an easy little in-between shot to worry about.

Percentages would tell you that an open three or midrange jumper goes in more often than not, so I'm definitely giving that up if I'm Vogel.

Anyway, I'm done here.

Reply #419923 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

Well they are not terrible, they are an OPINION.

Hibbert blocks shots, pretty sure that he would contest it, not stand at the rim..Who does that apart from Shawn Bradley? lol.

Seriously if you would give up a three or a mid range over a layup, then we will never agree.

Opinions mate : )

Reply #419924 | Report this post


Speed44  
Years ago

...and Hansborough was nowhere near the final layup.

I still don't understand why George didn't foul the moment LeBron spun past him. The key was completely open. Not a soul standing in there. A definite layup. LeBron is not exactly Mark Price from the foul line. Foul him, no?

Reply #419926 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

Agreed speed, look at the picture on ESPN, Hansborough is in the corner? WTF?

I would rather let Bosh beat me with a jumper if they double James, or worst case send Lebron to the line.

Reply #419933 | Report this post


Ingles13  
Years ago

Remember when people thought ChuckMelo was better than PG24?? LOL

Reply #419943 | Report this post


pacernation  
Years ago

Im confused in why the pacers didnt foul lebron and make him win the game from the line, doubt he would have.

Reply #419944 | Report this post


Choppy Galopy  
Years ago

George was great.

It was a great game.

If this series goes deep there will be injuries. Just has to be.

Reply #419945 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Ingles, remember when people had wit? ChuckMelo is probably the single-worst nickname I have ever heard. And it's just one game mate... in which he had six turnovers and held Lebron to a terrible 30,10,10 triple double. Lebron did what he wanted to even with George on him. Do you have a nickname for him, maybe something ground-breaking like 'pauly'?

I definitely agree with Choppy re: injuries.

Reply #419949 | Report this post


Ingles13  
Years ago

Paul George will help you win games
ChuckMelo will score lots of points in an inefficient manner

There's a reason the pacers are in the conference finals and the Knicks went home.

Reply #419960 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Ingles, dude, STFU.

This has nothing to do with Carmelo or the Knicks. Peddle your petty agenda on twitter or somewhere where we don't have to see it.

The few times you have actually engaged in logical discussion I have found you to be surprisngly knowledgeable about the game, but then it descends into this childish crap and all your points become redundant.

For the interest of compressing the dumb shit, let's just all say that we all agree that Paul George and Lebron James are more efficient players than Carmelo Anthony and Kobe Bryant, so you don't have to "educate" us further.

Reply #419969 | Report this post


Ingles13  
Years ago

Nothing is dumb about saying Paul George is a better player than Melo.

Reply #419971 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

It is dumb when it has nothing to do with this series and complete derides that constructive discussion / debate about game 1 of the Pacers / Heat series.

Reply #419974 | Report this post


Ingles13  
Years ago

Well, I mean yesterday was probably the first time a lot of non Indiana fans got to see PG24 and how good he really is, so as someone who watches a lot of Pacers games, I can confidentally say I would take PG24 over Melo in nearly every situation

Reply #419976 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It is dumb after George produced arguably the single worst piece of individual defence in NBA playoff history to allow James an easy lay-up to win yesterday's game!

Reply #419978 | Report this post


Ingles13  
Years ago

Game would have been over much much earlier without George's brilliance

Reply #419979 | Report this post


KingJames  
Years ago

"ChuckMelo will score lots of points in an inefficient manner"

How is
28.7ppg @ 45% FG, 38% 3pt and 83% FT less efficient then
17.4ppg @ 42% FG, 36% 3pt and 80% FT?

so Anthony scores more and shoots every category at a better percentage yet is some how less efficient? That makes perfect sense :P

Reply #419981 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Run the playoff numbers by us KJ.

Reply #419983 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Paul George is going to be a beast for the next decade.

His offense is coming along. His defense is outstanding.

I know LBJ went for 30-10-10, but that was just a case of LBJ being LBJ rather than bad defense (except for that last play -- which is an easy mistake to make..you can be just slightly out of position, and once LBJ is on your hip is over. Also LBJ got a few baskets when George wasn't on him.

Speaking of the growth of Paul George...

It seems indicative of the modern NBA era. 6"7-6"9 athletic swingmans dominate todays game. (LBJ, Melo, Durant)

Whereas, in the 90s, centers ruled supreme Hakeem, Ewing, Shaq, Robinson, Mutombo.

Reply #420000 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Its a pity in the end the referees blew the piss out of the game in the first 3 quarters and then put their whistles away. LeBron travels as he spins to the basket to make the game winning layup!

Reply #420077 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yet interestingly Mac only two of those players named won a championship in the 90's.

Also interesting is that only when a more than useful 6-8 swingman lost his particularly unique 6-6 off guard mate for a couple years that either Ewing or O'Neal got to the final stage to win a championship.

Reply #420098 | Report this post




 

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