robot.

I'm no expert but I’ll give you another question.

When does the ball become "available" anyway?

Ref holds out ball, traditionally in 1 hand extended to inbounding player.

Does the clock start when the ref gains possession of the ball, places it in the “offering” hand, or when the ball is within a certain distance of the inbounding player?

I’m really not sure why the game clock doesn’t just start once the inbounding player touches the ball. Of course, this would also tend to curtail passing the ball across the baseline (out of play) which I quite like if the initial inbounded is under pressure.

UseTaHoop, these 2, I do know.

1. "When does the ball become "available" anyway?"

Where/when the official has to handle the ball on a fowl/violation, from when the ref is ready to hand the ball over. Not when the player decides to step out of bounds and accept the ball. On a made basket, when the re is not required to handle the ball, from when it is reasonably available. If ball is not fairly immediately available, say accidentally knocked away, the the whistle is blown, the clock stops and back to ref making the ball avail etc.

2. "Does the clock start when the ref gains possession of the ball, places it in the "offering" hand, or when the ball is within a certain distance of the inbounding player?"

The Clock starts when the ball is in-bounded. Until then, it's a referee's count.

My question is, when is the ball considered in-bounded? On touching the playing surface, the court, or touching an on-court player?

Thanks for your queation and input.

queation = question (of course)!

Thank you, Anon (excuse me for using friendly, abreviated form of your name, we don't really know each other). At last, an answer!

I did not read that rule (obviously).

Well, that was a short and swift thread. Thanks all.

Got me, but does not count.

I was writing my epilogue (above) while you were being horrible to me!

The clock was on zero, the alarm failed to blow. Waved away.

What video?

Yes.

RE : "I'm really not sure why the game clock doesn’t just start once the inbounding player touches the ball. "

One reason may be - Because that would allow that team to take time off the clock without taking any "risk" of losing possesion, while simultatanously running the game clock down.

and yes I know that was the situation back when the clock did not stop on a basket ( does it now in the last 2 minutes ? - I don't remember) but that was only for a maimum of 5 seconds as the ref count started independant of the game clock.

Theoretically , with the ball rolling on the floor - the other team can still get possesion of it.

I'm thinking I'm wrong there somewhaere, but its late ;)

"After a made basket inbounding the ball, are you able to throw the ball along the length of the baseline to a team-mate standing out of bounds so they can throw it in?"

yes but 5 second count continues, I'm not certain if it is complicated by needing the recievinh=g player to be out of court at the time the ball is released or not ?

I do know that the rule used to be that the inbounding player could only "run the baseline" if they were inbounding immediately after the made basket, and that if a timeout had been called and taken, after the made basket, on the resumption of play the inbounding player only had a single step eaithe way, and could bot run the baseline, I'm not seeing that called at all anymore so perhaps its been deleted ?

It's now explicitly allowed after a timeout:

"RE : "I'm really not sure why the game clock doesn't just start once the inbounding player touches the ball. "

One reason may be - Because that would allow that team to take time off the clock without taking any "risk" of losing possesion, while simultatanously running the game clock down."


Oddly, the NBA appears to start the game clock as soon as the ball is inbound; even if the player hasn't touched the ball yet. Not sure what the circumstances behind that are, but amazing that it can be done in the 4th.

Check out this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgkLd00ZffQ

Very old

"RE : "I'm really not sure why the game clock doesn't just start once the inbounding player touches the ball. "

One reason may be - Because that would allow that team to take time off the clock without taking any "risk" of losing possesion, while simultatanously running the game clock down."

Ok. That’d be a dull finish if there was less than 5 seconds remaining in the game with the leading team about to inbound the ball.

It’s all probably to do with keeping the game “live” until the game clock expires. As with advancing the ball to front court after a time out.

There was a pass across the baseline to advantage the inbounding a few nbl games ago.

I think the current system works, and it’d likely get worse if they made significant changes. Rugby League have some weird as moves to re-start play/ milk clock with touching the ball on the foot.

Oddly, the NBA appears to start the game clock as soon as the ball is inbound; even if the player hasn't touched the ball yet. Not sure what the circumstances behind that are, but amazing that it can be done in the 4th.

Check out this:

If the time the ball is rolling on the floor contributes to the 5 second call then the time that a full court pass is made (ball in the air) would also have to count.

From my understanding the 5 second count starts when an inbounding player takes possession of the ball up until the point of releasing the ball.

Anon700

Read OP. 5 second count begins when the ball is "available" to be inbounded. This seems to be the consensus, and it's in the FIBA rules.

My query is basically, “define available” to be inbounded.

If the rule stated “in the hand/s of the inbounded” or similar, you could see an inbounding player refusing to touch the ball, letting it bounce as their teammates tried to get clear of defenders.

Can anyone think of a simple way of tightening up the timing conditions that wouldn’t disadvantage the attacking or defending team??? It seems like we need a clear definition of when the ball “becomes available” but I’d hate to see the balance changed.

UseTaHoop - that exact scenario happened in a recent game and stood out to me at the time - I think it was Breakers/Wildcats game .

I think at the end of the 3rd, after Wildcats scored there was something like 29-30 seconds left. The breakers player could have picked up the ball straight away but it appeared that he deliberately let it bounce several time right next to him before picking up and inbounding. This ensured that the Breakers could use their full 24 and be sure that the Wildcats wouldn't get another shot. I thought at the time that it was pretty smart but also wondered when his 5 seconds actually started.

It would appear from the discussion above that the ball was definitely available to him, since it appeared unnatural and odd that he didn't pick it up. So technically I would suggest the rule/interpretation should be that he had perhaps 1-2 seconds to pass in this instance once picking up the ball (in this case he would have met that - he seemed happy to pass once the game clock hit 24 sec).

Regardless of the rule I can see the refs giving a fair degree of leeway to the inbounding player in this circumstance

Unless you were on/with the other team. Then you'd be wanting the call made, wouldn't you?

I'm no rule booklet expert. My natural inclination would be once the player inbounding controls the ball the 5 count starts, ending once he passes the ball, regardless of whether another player gains possession/touches the ball. That seems to be the interpretation from my general observation anyway. Whether that is how you’d interpret it in the rule book is a different story.

That Breakers example sounds like a good heads up play. I’ve never been a fan of the continuously running clock in the last two minutes.

Yeah the clock continues to run in those instances. It is up to the ref to blow time on if too much time is going to run off the clock in between the basket/ violation and starting the 5 seconds.