robt
Earlier this year

Clarification of Inbounds rule, please.

When a player inbounds the ball by roling it on the floor to avoid the clock starting, why is a 5 second violation not called?

The rule states that a team has 5 seconds to inbound the ball from the time the ball is available (to be thrown in). When the ball is inbounded the clock starts. But, as a player on-court has not touched the ball, the referee holds the clock "off". That clock should start within 5 seconds of it being avail. Even the time that the players take/waste in getting to the ball (to in-bound it) should be counted. Add to that the ball roling on the loor, untouched by on-court player... you get my drift.


Have posted similar question previously but have never had an adequate reply. I have asked this question of 3 referees at QBL games during the season. 2 siad it was OK but did not convince me that they ACTUALY knew or were embarassed by not knowing and covered with "Yeah, that's ok!" The 3rd ref I asked said that he did not know either and would find out. That, I can applaud. But unfortunately never caught up again so .. ?

And yes, I have read the FIBA rule and still cannot understand why this is allowed in games.

Lastly. no opinions on this one please. There are only 2 possibilities. Either it's ok or it's not! I really would like the answer.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The player taking the throw-in must not take more than 5 seconds to release the ball on a throw in, Article 17.3.1.

In this situation, as they release the ball by rolling it on the floor, they have not taken too long to inbound it, and the clock does not start until it is touched by a player on the floor.

So yes, it's perfectly legal play

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

However it has to be over the halfway line before 5 seconds once inbounded.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Where the hell are you getting that from?

There is no such rule about getting it over halfway within 5 seconds. Once the clock starts they have the usual 8 seconds to advance the ball to the front half.

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UseTaHoop  
Earlier this year

robot.

I'm no expert but I’ll give you another question.

When does the ball become "available" anyway?

Ref holds out ball, traditionally in 1 hand extended to inbounding player.

Does the clock start when the ref gains possession of the ball, places it in the “offering” hand, or when the ball is within a certain distance of the inbounding player?

I’m really not sure why the game clock doesn’t just start once the inbounding player touches the ball. Of course, this would also tend to curtail passing the ball across the baseline (out of play) which I quite like if the initial inbounded is under pressure.



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robt  
Earlier this year


UseTaHoop, these 2, I do know.

1. "When does the ball become "available" anyway?"

Where/when the official has to handle the ball on a fowl/violation, from when the ref is ready to hand the ball over. Not when the player decides to step out of bounds and accept the ball. On a made basket, when the re is not required to handle the ball, from when it is reasonably available. If ball is not fairly immediately available, say accidentally knocked away, the the whistle is blown, the clock stops and back to ref making the ball avail etc.

2. "Does the clock start when the ref gains possession of the ball, places it in the "offering" hand, or when the ball is within a certain distance of the inbounding player?"

The Clock starts when the ball is in-bounded. Until then, it's a referee's count.

My question is, when is the ball considered in-bounded? On touching the playing surface, the court, or touching an on-court player?

Thanks for your queation and input.

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robt  
Earlier this year

queation = question (of course)!

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Fowl... Hahaha

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robt  
Earlier this year

Thank you, Anon (excuse me for using friendly, abreviated form of your name, we don't really know each other). At last, an answer!

I did not read that rule (obviously).

Well, that was a short and swift thread. Thanks all.

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robt  
Earlier this year

Got me, but does not count.

I was writing my epilogue (above) while you were being horrible to me!

The clock was on zero, the alarm failed to blow. Waved away.

What video?

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

After a made basket inbounding the ball, are you able to throw the ball along the length of the baseline to a team-mate standing out of bounds so they can throw it in?

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robt  
Earlier this year

Yes.

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Very Old  
Earlier this year

RE : "I'm really not sure why the game clock doesn’t just start once the inbounding player touches the ball. "

One reason may be - Because that would allow that team to take time off the clock without taking any "risk" of losing possesion, while simultatanously running the game clock down.

and yes I know that was the situation back when the clock did not stop on a basket ( does it now in the last 2 minutes ? - I don't remember) but that was only for a maimum of 5 seconds as the ref count started independant of the game clock.

Theoretically , with the ball rolling on the floor - the other team can still get possesion of it.

I'm thinking I'm wrong there somewhaere, but its late ;)

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Very Old  
Earlier this year

"After a made basket inbounding the ball, are you able to throw the ball along the length of the baseline to a team-mate standing out of bounds so they can throw it in?"

yes but 5 second count continues, I'm not certain if it is complicated by needing the recievinh=g player to be out of court at the time the ball is released or not ?

I do know that the rule used to be that the inbounding player could only "run the baseline" if they were inbounding immediately after the made basket, and that if a timeout had been called and taken, after the made basket, on the resumption of play the inbounding player only had a single step eaithe way, and could bot run the baseline, I'm not seeing that called at all anymore so perhaps its been deleted ?

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koberulz  
Earlier this year

It's now explicitly allowed after a timeout:

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The inbound passer has 5 seconds to release the ball. The 5 seconds is not related to touching a player on the court.

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MACDUB  
Earlier this year

"RE : "I'm really not sure why the game clock doesn't just start once the inbounding player touches the ball. "

One reason may be - Because that would allow that team to take time off the clock without taking any "risk" of losing possesion, while simultatanously running the game clock down."


Oddly, the NBA appears to start the game clock as soon as the ball is inbound; even if the player hasn't touched the ball yet. Not sure what the circumstances behind that are, but amazing that it can be done in the 4th.

Check out this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgkLd00ZffQ

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UseTaHoop  
Earlier this year

Very old

"RE : "I'm really not sure why the game clock doesn't just start once the inbounding player touches the ball. "

One reason may be - Because that would allow that team to take time off the clock without taking any "risk" of losing possesion, while simultatanously running the game clock down."

Ok. That’d be a dull finish if there was less than 5 seconds remaining in the game with the leading team about to inbound the ball.

It’s all probably to do with keeping the game “live” until the game clock expires. As with advancing the ball to front court after a time out.

There was a pass across the baseline to advantage the inbounding a few nbl games ago.

I think the current system works, and it’d likely get worse if they made significant changes. Rugby League have some weird as moves to re-start play/ milk clock with touching the ball on the foot.

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koberulz  
Earlier this year

Oddly, the NBA appears to start the game clock as soon as the ball is inbound; even if the player hasn't touched the ball yet. Not sure what the circumstances behind that are, but amazing that it can be done in the 4th.

Check out this:
That was after a basket with more than two minutes remaining. The clock never stopped. The shot clock and eight second count don't start until the ball is touched.

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anonymous  
Earlier this year

If the time the ball is rolling on the floor contributes to the 5 second call then the time that a full court pass is made (ball in the air) would also have to count.

From my understanding the 5 second count starts when an inbounding player takes possession of the ball up until the point of releasing the ball.

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UseTaHoop  
Earlier this year

Anon700

Read OP. 5 second count begins when the ball is "available" to be inbounded. This seems to be the consensus, and it's in the FIBA rules.

My query is basically, “define available” to be inbounded.

If the rule stated “in the hand/s of the inbounded” or similar, you could see an inbounding player refusing to touch the ball, letting it bounce as their teammates tried to get clear of defenders.

Can anyone think of a simple way of tightening up the timing conditions that wouldn’t disadvantage the attacking or defending team??? It seems like we need a clear definition of when the ball “becomes available” but I’d hate to see the balance changed.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Well seeing other than after a made basket the referee hands or bounces the ball to the inbounding that would be making the ball available. Thus have possession and the. 5 seconds to release the ball.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

UseTaHoop - that exact scenario happened in a recent game and stood out to me at the time - I think it was Breakers/Wildcats game .

I think at the end of the 3rd, after Wildcats scored there was something like 29-30 seconds left. The breakers player could have picked up the ball straight away but it appeared that he deliberately let it bounce several time right next to him before picking up and inbounding. This ensured that the Breakers could use their full 24 and be sure that the Wildcats wouldn't get another shot. I thought at the time that it was pretty smart but also wondered when his 5 seconds actually started.

It would appear from the discussion above that the ball was definitely available to him, since it appeared unnatural and odd that he didn't pick it up. So technically I would suggest the rule/interpretation should be that he had perhaps 1-2 seconds to pass in this instance once picking up the ball (in this case he would have met that - he seemed happy to pass once the game clock hit 24 sec).

Regardless of the rule I can see the refs giving a fair degree of leeway to the inbounding player in this circumstance

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robt  
Earlier this year

Unless you were on/with the other team. Then you'd be wanting the call made, wouldn't you?

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Violet Crumble  
Earlier this year

I'm no rule booklet expert. My natural inclination would be once the player inbounding controls the ball the 5 count starts, ending once he passes the ball, regardless of whether another player gains possession/touches the ball. That seems to be the interpretation from my general observation anyway. Whether that is how you’d interpret it in the rule book is a different story.

That Breakers example sounds like a good heads up play. I’ve never been a fan of the continuously running clock in the last two minutes.

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Greggo  
Earlier this year

Yeah the clock continues to run in those instances. It is up to the ref to blow time on if too much time is going to run off the clock in between the basket/ violation and starting the 5 seconds.

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