Anonymous
Two weeks ago

Tom Wilson quits basketball for AFL

This is an epidemic

Topic #45091 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

An epidemic? Why?

Bradtke, Bines and Wilson. Wilson being the one with the highest basketball upside. Plenty of talent coming through.

Reply #740759 | Report this post


Anon  
Two weeks ago

Good on him for weighing out his options and making decision still early into his pro career. I feel as though he signed for Sydney too early this season. He would've been a great pick for Adelaide under Joey, with the departure of Nathan Sobey. Also would’ve gotten a healthy amount of minutes as well. I reckon he would’ve grown into the player that he showed glimpses off during his Junior Rep Career. All the best Tom!

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

I don't think he signed as the Kings had a one year team option and they exercised it.

Reply #740765 | Report this post


Anon  
Two weeks ago

Nah mate, Olgun mentioned he re-signed for three years. But the Kings were aware he was still deciding between AFL and Basketball. So it wasn't binding.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

I think you will find the Kings were not going to let him go anywhere else as they were going to exercise the team option.

So it was Kings or nowhere else in the NBL.

However, the Kings did offer a 3 year deal as they knew they were competing with the AFL to keep him and I think credit to them for trying.

One has to wonder after the two game performance he put in with the Boomers, what might have been had Gaze given him some useful court time?

For me, I am disappointed to see him leave basketball, but it is his life and I wish him well.

Reply #740768 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

#759, OP is closer to the mark. Those three are hardly all we've lost and no reason to think it'll stop now. Bines playing NBL1, though, for what it's worth.

Reply #740769 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Hugh Greenwood
Scott Pendlebury
Corey Maynard
Josh Jenkins
Dean Brogan
Michael Luxford
David Smith

Do we need a next stars program for football players to combat this "category B" salary the AFL offers for basketballers?

Reply #740772 | Report this post


D2.0  
Two weeks ago

What's his background? Does he have a realistic chance at AFL?

The problem with these Cat B rookies, is that they are free hits, so AFL teams are happy to take a gamble. The vast majority never make it off the Cat B list.

Best of luck to the young man.

Reply #740775 | Report this post


Anon  
Two weeks ago

Best of luck to him. But I can't help wondering if things would have been different if he had been with a coach that, I dunno, could actually coach and develop talent? If he was with the Hawks under Bevo as one example, getting the kind of individual development he needed plus more court time, would the AFL be as appealing? Given his background and international experience as a junior? Obviously we'll never know, but one hopes for the Kings' sake that Weaver is the kind of guy who encourages players to stay in the game, rather than look for opportunities elsewhere. Because over the past ten years, it's been one coaching disaster after another in Sydney.

Reply #740777 | Report this post


Cram  
Two weeks ago

The first result of the NBL next stars program.

Reply #740778 | Report this post


WookieE  
Two weeks ago

If you can't get excited by basketball after playing for your country, they you need to move on... As above, I reckon Gaze was a huge negative influence on his basketball career and while I think Humphries succeeded despite Gaze, Wilson couldn't even get dud minutes regularly at the end of games, so I sort of don't blame him...

Good luck to him, especially if he signed on with the Kings with their knowledge that he was still weighing up his opportunities... Do it young enough to make an impact in your chosen path...

People declaring doom and gloom are overreacting IMO, how many of those mentioned would have made a huge impact at NBL level? no-one really knows for the most part...

Reply #740782 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

If he was as good at basketball that you all think he'd back himself, he left college because he wasn’t getting time, went to Serbia, never got on, came back after a couple months, played for tiger seabl, they went nowhere even though he got mvp, most good judges still scratching their heads, then signed for kings got no time, let’s blame Gaze even though most believe Bogut was coaching the team. Rumour for months is he’s going to afl, so they pick him for Australia, shoots like a busted arse in first game win, then scores points in second game when game is over in a loss and doesn’t play defence.
Anyway I wish him luck but don’t over exaggerate what a loss this is, that’s life people chase the money.

Reply #740784 | Report this post


Hogwash  
Two weeks ago

The NBL is not suffering a talent drain as a result of these guys choosing footy.
Plenty of opportunity for other players to step up.

Reply #740785 | Report this post


paul  
Two weeks ago

Agree anon, a guy who hadn't gone close to fulfilling his junior potential. Plenty of those around. In time, maybe he would have, maybe he wouldn't have, we'll see what happens in time, whether he goes anywhere in footy.

Reply #740786 | Report this post


Cram  
Two weeks ago

He never got a chance because of:

a) poor coaching; and
b) the "next stars" program which benefits foreign players at the cost of opportunity for locals

He's also only 21. Younger than many DPs. Nathan Sobey did nothing in the NBL until he was 24 and now he's talked about as a fringe boomer and has had summer league exposure. I think Wilson had potential for a similar career at least.

Reply #740789 | Report this post


Food for thought  
Two weeks ago

"b) the "next stars" program which benefits foreign players at the cost of opportunity for locals"

No, that's clutching at straws. How many Aussie players got minutes ahead of him that they shouldn't have? Deng Deng? Dane Pineau? Kyle Adnam? Gaze didn't even give the kid garbage minutes. This isn't the fault of the Next Stars program. The blame lays squarely with Andrew Gaze and the Sydney Kings. I think with another 3 years in that system to look forward to, it makes complete sense why he decided to move on.

Reply #740792 | Report this post


Cram  
Two weeks ago

So the potential NBA draft pick who also plays on the wing had nothing to do with his lack of opportunity? Sure.

Reply #740794 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Another case of talented junior who grows up being told how great he is, then when it comes to the pros where adversity hits, can't cope.
Textbook

Reply #740795 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Food for thought

Do you really think he wasn't given a chance because of Gaze, Bogut was there either participating or watching every session, he’d played if Bogut thought he would’ve helped, and Gaze would’ve loved to promote an ex tigers player. He’s chasing quick bucks, he could be back before you know it if it doesn’t work out in afl.

Reply #740796 | Report this post


Isaac  
Two weeks ago

Rumour for months is he's going to afl
Yes, Boti first mentioned it in June 2018: Wilson on Cats' hit list

Reply #740798 | Report this post


WookieE  
Two weeks ago

Exactly, #795 anon - talked up and can't hack putting in the hard yards if he's not treated special... Look at pretty much all of our Aussie NBA players and see how many of those were treated like Gods gifts and how many worked their arses off against some pretty tall odds... I would have liked to have seen Gaze give him a better chance but if he can't handle riding the bench and training hard to earn his time, then good luck in the AFL, buddy...

Is anyone seriously suggesting that Bowen actually took minutes off him? Adnam, maybe, but not Bowen...

Reply #740799 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

This decision is a no brainer IF he thinks 1. He's a reasonable chance of making it as an AFL player and 2. His basketball ability will max out at an NBL career at best.

Based on figures quoted here recently, the average Australian NBL players makes 120k a year. Imports average 220k.

The average AFL player makes over 300k and that will rise to 370k over the next few years.

And there's 700 AFL players compared to around 60 Aussie NBL players.

Reply #740800 | Report this post


Cram  
Two weeks ago

"Is anyone seriously suggesting that Bowen actually took minutes off him? Adnam, maybe, but not Bowen..."

Considering they're both wings and Adnam is a PG, yes, Bowen took minutes off him.

Reply #740801 | Report this post


Wisehead  
Two weeks ago

Mate Tom Wilson was either a PG or SG.

Adnam took minutes off him because whilst Adnam isn't the best defender, he was better option than Wilson; when you had the squad that the kings had last season, they didn't need a young guy wanting to shoot the lights out.

He won the MVP in the SEABL last year (probably should have gone to a player at the Chargers), but he couldn't make his team a winning team. It's the equivalent of making Melo Trimble the NBL MVP when Cairns came last.

Reply #740806 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

LV

The average might be $300g which is great, but when you take out the top ten on your list earning between 500g and 1.2 million it starts to fall away quickly. Geelong might chuck 60/70g his way but he'll be busting his arse for it including severe off season training except for a two week holiday when he’ll still need to train. It all looks great but the bottom enders still struggle. If he gets to a top ten player he’ll make good coin but no more than if he could get to a reasonable club in Europe that plays in any of the euro leagues or cups. You can also play basketball for a lot longer than afl with the average career at just under three seasons.
Don’t believe all the hype that the afl throw at you. Xavier Cooks will be making a lot more coin over the next few seasons the Wilson will, while travelling the Europe.

Reply #740807 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

In his interview comments he said he came to the realisation that he wasn't a "Ben Simmons". I think these kids grow up and their dream is to be NBA players but when the realisation hits that they're a good NBL player at best that doesn't sound as exciting as a good AFL player who will get more money, fame, play in front of bigger audiences etc

Reply #740811 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

"THE AFL has landed another blow over basketball with former junior prodigy Tom Wilson opting for a career in football - just six weeks after his Australian Boomers debut.

Wilson's former Australian teammate Matt Owies, who last year signed with Carlton, was one of six basketballers who made the switch to football in 2018.

Melbourne won the race for highly touted big man Austin Bradtke, Brisbane landed former Brisbane Bullet Tom Fullarton, Sam Alabakis joined St Kilda, while Patrick Bines and Brodie Riach signed with West Coast."

Anything we can do about this?

Reply #740812 | Report this post


Hogwash  
Two weeks ago

The AFL salaries are inflated by big earners eg Ablett and Franklin.
NBL may pay less but you could supplement your earnings playing in NZBL or State leagues or short term euro stints. Plus you could play longer than AFL.

I wish Wilson good luck it's his choice to make.

Not an epidemic at all the OP is being dramatic.

Reply #740813 | Report this post


Cram  
Two weeks ago

#769 it's actually Jack Bones playing NBL1 for the Tigers. Patrick Bines is the one that switched to footy.

Reply #740824 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

Perhaps those AFL salary figures are inflated due to the high outliers

The median might only be say 250k (and rising)

That salary would probably put you in the top 10 or 15 NBL players.

Reply #740834 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

The kid played for Australia through the juniors and even a senior boomers appearance. Yes, it was a dead rubber but it does show his potential was thought of highly. This is a big blow

Reply #740835 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

In fact ignore NBL for a second

How many Australians anywhere in the world are earning more than 250k from basketball?

There's probably 13 in the NBA, 5 in Europe, 5 in the NBL.

That's 23. Who knows, it could be 30. Let's say 40 and be generous.

Well 40 basketball players vs 300 or 400 AFL players.

250k is seriously good coin when earnt over a number of years, the type of money that can set you up for life if you're wise about how you spend it.

Ten times as many people are making that from footy compared to basketball.

Reply #740837 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

LV

You are not taking in that the average afl player does not last more than three years on a list and there back to lower levels or getting a job. If you are an average basketball player but love the sport you can't play till35/38 in leagues around the world. Yes the dollars are a lot less but the leagues through Asia don’t pay to badly, even euro second tier leagues aren’t to bad. As you say if you get past the three years on afl list and stay in the system the money is there but not normally till you sign your third or fourth contract. If you are a top 10/15 draft pick in the afl you are a chance of better money earlier but few are in that position.

Top players in afl earn 1.2 million, that’s four player averages and when you realise that some clubs have few more around that figure the money at the bottom end ain’t great.

Wilson might make it but it’ll be a long time before he’s averaging 300g a year no matter what the afl machine tell you.

Reply #740844 | Report this post


Isaac  
Two weeks ago

I would have liked to have seen Gaze give him a better chance but if he can't handle riding the bench and training hard to earn his time, then good luck in the AFL, buddy...
Not sure it needs to be painted like that. He can play both sports. One has a larger pool of positions, stronger clubs and likely more money.

I doubt the NBL average is $120k. If it is, just like the AFL, there are some outliers dragging it up. If he's a middling player, he might as well be in the AFL.

One thing that could be done to address this is leaving more positions for local players; that is, no third import, no Next Stars - or at the very least, make Next Stars the optional third import. But that's less than 10 extra spots. NBL1 could grow to help as well, but maybe that's a little dreamy.

Reply #740849 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

Decided to do a bit of googling and surprise, surprise, the numbers support my earlier comments and in fact show I was being overly generous to your argument

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-03-06/six-milliondollar-men-as-player-salaries-go-up-again

- Only 6 AFL players earned $1mil+ in 2018

- 31 players earned more than $800,000

- The average player wage last season was $362,471

- 383 players earned over $300k in 2018. That's more than half of the 703 AFL players

Yes of course basketball careers last longer, but there is no comparison as far as money in concerned- UNLESS Wilson is in the top 30 or 40 Aussie basketballers.




Reply #740850 | Report this post


LV  
Two weeks ago

WHat I mean is, there's no comparison as far as money is concerned, unless Wilson thinks he can become a superstar in the NBL (or make the NBA or a top Euro league).

Let's say he becomes an average NBL player, coming off the bench as a 6th man for 10 years. Maybe a starter. He might earn $1 million or $1.5 million.

If he can become an average AFL player, just making the team as a fringe player in the top 22 for 7 or 8 years, then he would earn $2mil or $3mil.

No comparison.

Of course money isn't the only factor. Maybe he just enjoys playing footy more? Who knows...

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

"Not sure it needs to be painted like that. He can play both sports. One has a larger pool of positions, stronger clubs and likely more money.

I doubt the NBL average is $120k. If it is, just like the AFL, there are some outliers dragging it up. If he's a middling player, he might as well be in the AFL.

One thing that could be done to address this is leaving more positions for local players; that is, no third import, no Next Stars - or at the very least, make Next Stars the optional third import. But that's less than 10 extra spots. "

So what's your theory, that it's about the money, or the opportunity?

Keep in mind the Kings signed him so he did have a job if he wanted it (at what I understand to be a competitive rate) and if he was concerned about minutes, well he was a free agent and I can think of a couple of teams who probably could've given him some minutes.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

The Kings signed Wilson before Adnam so it's possible he was penciled in as the backup PG this season.

Reply #740864 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

The point I'm try to make is yes there is more money in afl but to get good coin you have to last longer than three years. The average afl player last less than three years, for every Danderfeild there is some kid that’s punted before they are any where good money.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Yep and for every player that works hard like dangerfield to improve and be the best, there's ten kids who walk around thinking they're the man because they've been drafted and don't put in enough work to improve resulting in them falling out of the system, most likely in under three years as you've stated although some manage to coast on natural ability for a bit longer.

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A A Ron  
Two weeks ago

The big difference I see is the 500th best player in AFL gets $80k minimum plus match payments for his 3 years then plays local footy for $1000 per game for the next 6-10 years.

The 500th best basketball player in the country is paying fees to play no higher than Warratah league or Big V Div 1 from the get go.

For Wilson, he needs to get in the top 30 Australian basketballers to have a profitable career, if he cracks the top 300 in the AFL he has probably 6-10 years earning $250k+. Just like Greenwood, his decision makes perfect sense.

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A A Ron  
Two weeks ago

To add to that, the 100th best AFL player is comfortably on $400k+, that works out to be the the 6th or 7th highest paid player on each AFL teams list.

The 100th best basketball player in the country is barely getting paid travel money in the NBL1 or QBL.

Reply #740880 | Report this post


Alpha  
Two weeks ago

Good luck to him in his future endeavours. I think he could have done far better in terms of his development and some decisions in joices of environments in the past made very little sense.

Also salary comparison makes sense and sort of brings lots of sense to this decision. However can someone put a value of promotion/marketing/networking into all this? For example, playing college is not only about getting a degree but creating networks. There are many examples of good college players that went nowhere after their careers yet they make far greater money in their current roles than they would as players. Everyone's aware of HC salaries in the college - checking salaries of assistant HC would be good as they are on some have load too. Broadcasters, promoters... USA is a huge market, Europe too, what's the best way of creating presence than playing a popular sport. Can anyone project how much Jack White will 'make' after graduating? He may not end up in NBA but the system will certainly look after him.

So to cut my BS short, yes AFL makes perfect sense in a country of 25mill, but I'd like to have a crystal ball to see what he could have gained by staying at SMU and going through the process. There is life after sport and there are professions now paying more than AFL pays to majority of its players now.

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Cram  
Two weeks ago

Good points Alpha.

The AFL has definitely gotten better at getting its players ready for life after footy through training and development, but also through opportunities from their network of sponsors and partners.

College basketball has given lots of Aussie guys a chance after their playing careers are over. Guys like Rillie and Adam Caporn have gotten coaching gigs over there (with Caporn coming back).

Even guys with lesser playing careers such as David Patrick have managed to have great post-playing careers in basketball.

I don't think your post playing career is going to be the clincher when choosing between sports though and I think these days there are good options in either.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Very good post Alpha.

If kids focus on their journey and being their best self it will always work out in the longer run. Not saying Tom made the wrong decision but all these idiots posting every financial equation under the sun are missing the point to it.

Talk to many AFL players that chose football. Most love the game of basketball and harbour regrets about their career choice.

Back to the equations..... BBall is a global, year round game. NBL players also playing in Asia/Europe can double their salary earning 400k+ AUD.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Drimic went to Boise state, back playing for 36ers, nick Duncan went to Boise State and is now in high financial world in the US, even though the kings showed interest a few seasons back. Yes afl does pay more but hit only 20/30% get the big bucks.

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