donotreach
Two weeks ago

Hawthorn Basketball Crazies

What in the blazes is happening at Hawthorn, Titans a huge domestic program moves to Camberwell District Association (never heard of them) heard a bunch of other teams are leaving, then bobcats a club from Mornington?? are joining the comp??

Has hoops gone mad, is Hawhthorn stable - remember talk here they wanted to go NBL1 ASAP and it seems with a club like titans moving that had plenty of rep player in its ranks. Crazy stuff for that little leafy pocket of Melbourne.

what other clubs play at CDBA?? Balwyn are EDJBA and so are Koonung two of the normal feeders for Camberwell VJBL.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

That is very strange. Could not believe it so looked at the relevant club websites and seems to be correct.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Comments on the Hawthorn Basketball Association Instagram page make interesting reading. Just based on those, looks like there's a bit involved. Good win by Camberwell - they could be strong this year, and perhaps the kids that moved / were enticed from clubs like Bulleen and Melb might wander back.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Does this mean half of Hawthorn Magics will go across to Camberwell Dragons? That will be disruptive to Camberwell, as much as Hawthorn. Looks like a mess.

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Unknown  
Two weeks ago

Bulleen isn't enticing any players, carry on..

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Hawthorn men are looking at dropping out of Champ men and women as they have no money to spend on players. Both men and women will play Div 1

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

The clubs rise has been a house of cards, rich inner east folks throwing money around at junior coaches for years to attract talent. Ex nbl players getting $10k+ to coach 14's ffs.
No stadium of their own, no land to build their own.
Covid and the loss of income couldn’t see coming but it has exposed a flawed way to 'build’ an association.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Thought there were a number of Bulleen kids that went across to Hawthorn a few years back?

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Will be interesting to see knock-on to VJBL - look forward to reading the clearance list to see how many leave Hawthorn, and where they go.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

It's pretty silly having two associations so close to each other. Would make sense to merge.
Would be hard pressed to find associations being as close to each other as these two.

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donotreach  
Two weeks ago

No club wants to come out of Championship division even if they don't have any money LOOK at Blackburn they should of requested a drop years ago but the nae of being in the comp is too good for business.

Yes they overspent and then went to the wall when COVID hit which says alot about whatever the financial model was, but this is domestic not rep or Big V and why you would use that money to prop up senior prorgams is beyond me.

Was BV involved in this? Lots of talk about profit making clubs etc on facebook posts and refunds from COVID.

Reality is without COVID none of this comes out - I feel for the kids and the people who did put their heart into it

The fact is Magic are advertising for HP Manager while all this is going on, surely you would avoid this role as it sounds like the place is built on sand at the moment.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Camberwell don't (at least until now) have a domestic comp. Magic did and these couple of clubs got too big for them and ran off to create their own comp (the private clubs, ie for profit). Will be interesting if any of the junior rep players follow. BV transfer rules prevent players moving en masse to a single club.

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hoopie  
Two weeks ago

not totally correct, #154

Both for-profit and not-for-profit domestic clubs went across to Camberwell. Hawthorn tried to spin it as only the biggest for-profit one leaving (there are at least two) because that was no longer compatible with the aims of the association.

This is totally independent of the Magic or Senior programs, which MAY be able to survive on their own without the domestic money. We'll have to wait and see.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

^ think BV will be forced to change that rule through necessity. If a kid is playing domestic at a club that moves to a new association should be able to represent that new association (can't just say only 2 of them can!). It’s different here, because while clubs have moved, and not an example of kids being poached.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

hoopie - I wonder how they afford to pay the admin and coaches (and the senior players) the same amount with a reduced number of teams? They already had in place some form of financial recovery plan, and now the source of revenue has been hit. It's a shame to see all of this come about.

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Hoopie  
Two weeks ago

#162 I agree with all that you said.

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Anon  
Two weeks ago

^ think BV will be forced to change that rule through necessity. If a kid is playing domestic at a club that moves to a new association should be able to represent that new association (can't just say only 2 of them can!).
---
Unlikely. Many associations allow you to enter a single team. I used to coach a team, We had players players from 4 different associations and moved our team from 1 association to another to avoid being split up at our old association. 7 out of 8 were playing VC. If you were to change the rule per say we could have all joined the new association and would have had 6 players potenitally playing in the same team the following year due to ages.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

I coach at hawthorn, who are the u14 coaches that earn 10k a year ex nbl players?
Girls coach was a cricket player boys played seabl at best?

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donotreach  
Two weeks ago

If you coach there and don't know then not sure you're the best person to ask.
whats Tom Maher on? or do you think he rolls down there out of the goodness of his heart, Brogan, Timmons, Adonis was there at one point, hmm tryng to think off the top of my head Jack Fleming moved from DVBA to go there, surely it wasn't for petrol money. I know a coach from another club that was offered $6k and to bring two players with him.

I have no problem mind you with what they did, COVID hurt this plan or maybe the financials didn't take into account what happens if this sort thing happens, BUT coaches were being paid overs and any coach worth their own weight in the game knew it from across other clubs.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Donotreach
I know all the coaches. I wasn't asking you. Tom Maher never played. I'm sure he was paid, Michelle Brogan coached the u12 girls for years, ex opal apparently fantastic with that age group of girls. U18 girls coach plated nbl? Again been there for years most likely deserved every $ he earned also.
The pandemic has impacted all associations equally it hasn't discriminated. I personally moved from another club several years ago and found the change refreshing and welcoming. Great environment for the kids.
I have no idea regarding the domestic competition hope they all sort themselves out.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Are coaches leaving the association?

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Fleming has left to coach at the jumping jacks.

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donotreach  
Two weeks ago

Anonymous

Hey as I said if a club can and wants to pay for high quality coaches then I am ALL for it, I think VJBL exploits good coaches in this state from making a living coaching the game for the time they put in.

Its a shame whats happened to HBA, I just wondered if they forgot about domestic and spent too much time worrying about the top end of the game. As I said building a house sand. Clearly it has hurt HBA more than most clubs while some have struggled they are back on level terms going into hopefully a clear run in 2022 but I'm not sure a substandard domestic comp is going to help HBA aspirations and lofty ones they have.

No hate here - just saw the news and must admit I knew the issues with Rep money but didn't know it had effected domestic.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Donotreach
Maybe they just go the tigers route and have no domestic comp to work with/from?
I don't think msac is theirs? Same as the hawthorn base not being their own?
As I stated the magic have been nothing but a positive experience from my point of view and I have been around the game for probably too long.
I'm sure it will all work out. People have been knocking hawthorn for a while now for the perception of being entitled for a while, myself included back in the day.
Volunteer, get involved for the right reasons anywhere and it all pays off in the end!


They payed me 20k to coach the 4s by the way.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Sounds like a debacle. Domestic depth will hurt, both in terms of $ and also players leaving rep. 2021 accounts will make an interesting read when they come out in December.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

$20k, yeah righto.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

For a new player, they charged $825! Not including score sheets or the resilience plan payment. Surely that is a lot more than other associations! What do others pay?

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Baller65  
Two weeks ago

The league and clubs agreed to a 4 year plan that helped them pay off a HUGE debt that was uncovered by the initial stop in play. our club was asked for money up front with no refunds offered BEFORE the league told them they were in any debt at all. It was 4 years to avoid the current member copping a bill for 5 years of 'accidental?' Financial mismanagement.

They are charging so high and withholding funds linked to games cancelled due to covid the members themselves are frustrated.. Half of the team sheet amounts were kept plus the full amount of first two is what their website says... no secret Hawthorn over charge…and no surprise the clubs (making money or otherwise) looked for a better option for their members… can u blame them? $95 team sheets?!

Magic: seems mistreatment of the clubs OGs sparked an exodus of the upper end in the girls program. Definitely have been 10k payments for coaches at that club in the past, but I thought that had been reduced a little? Don’t know much about magic.

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Baller65  
Two weeks ago

BigV.
Their women's coach walked out because of the way the club treated the other coaches in the program... at least that’s what I heard.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

$825 is way too much. Frankston's is $500 or $550 which is probably a little low considering their coaching lineup (all volunteers). $600 - $650 seems like the fair amount and enough to at least give your coaches petrol money

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

So they expect parents of kids coming through u12 / u16 / u18 to pay for financial mismanagement of the past, plus keep paying up to support the senior programme. $825 and $95 team sheets is way overs. Add tournaments and entry fees, probably paying a few thousand to play junior basketball. Perhaps the price will go up further given large clubs have left domestic.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Hawthorn have dug this hole themselves. They were screwing the domestic clubs big time. I'm hearing now that they’ve moved, clubs have been able to pass on significant savings to families, let by the 'for profit’

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

*led

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Baller65  
Two weeks ago

Hawthorn Magic:
Apparently they ran a development squad and charged $250 for it.... Got two sessions done and refunded $50! I'm not connected to that directly, just what I’ve been told! I assume they got a tshirt and drink bottle or something too (surely!!!)

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Yes, all not-for-profit means is that no-one takes out equity. It doesn't mean that the money raised through revenues is used for some higher purpose. It doesn’t mean that a not for profit club cannot pay coaches and apply funds disproportionately towards certain parts of the basketball program.

A relevant question for a domestic basketball family who does not play rep is how much of my fees are being used for my kid and the programme offered to my kid, and how much is being used for rep / senior programme?

Seems that Hawthorn is learning a lesson about how important it is to look after the domestic clubs, which support the broader programme.

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Unbothered observer  
Two weeks ago

Seems like an undertone of we can charge what we want, what are they gonna do about it? And the domestic clubs there as a group are doing something about it.

Funny that they are spitting hate at for profit clubs yet enlisting the bobcats: another for profit club (I'm sure a really great one at that). Whatever, but it highlights the lack of consistency in their message.

Has drowning written all over it.
And where is the Management team that accrued this debt now? Surely not the new GMs fault?

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Baller65  
Two weeks ago

Also doubt Hannah Lowe (Titans) would just pack up and shift without serious cause. Hasn't she been there since Hawthorn started?

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Did the board leave when they found the financial problem? They would be volunteers.

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Baller65  
Two weeks ago

I think most of the board stayed (to their credit)... but also, probably not something they wanted to be attached to should it go south.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Reply #873212 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

That's $300 more registration fees than my association. Wow.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

This drives me crazy the perception that Juniors pay for Senior . All the clubs I know ask Senior Big V players to find their own sponsorship or pay a fee, anywhere from 500 to 1000. VJBL parents you are not propping up senior BIG V programs at 80% of associations. Ask you administrators for a break down of your VJBL fees. You may be surprised as it goes towards uniforms. balls, court hire end of year trophy's and coaches development. Hawthorne no different to the rest of us.

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Baller65  
Two weeks ago

You are right, all associations members contribute to the pathway'up’. And hawthorn is obviously no exception.

But when associations discover they are in 100s of thousands of dollars of debt at the start of a pandemic, would all of those associations keep running the most expenses arm of their pathway? Or maybe dial it down?

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Unbothered observer  
Two weeks ago

Note that hawthorns seniors generate no revenue and the players don't pay to be part of it. Went to a game this year and sat in the bustling crowd of 6 people (including my kid).
That’s not how other associations operate at all. Those programs find ways to give back.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

What is a little worrying is that many associations do not publish their financial statements on their websites. For transparency, that is really important. Hawthorn does to their credit. Other associations do not and should ... if I was on a board at one of the associations that is exactly what I would be requiring so that everyone has a full and transparent view of the association. Failure to do so just raises questions. The days of acceptance of no transparency and a lack of accountability, including for not for profits, is behind us.

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Unbothered observer  
Two weeks ago

Agree with that.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Merge a couple of associations seems to be the go.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Can someone pls explain to be , why it is okay for a association to assume that Jnr domestic should be paying for a Big V program , that costs $150 - 180 k per year, when none of the players are expected to pay for rego , uniforms or source sponsorship and a Board calls this a pathway requirement .

We are talking about junior grass roots basketball , the pathway for those players interested is Junior rep.

You want to play ball , then pay for it ... NOT A FREE RIDE for some , this is the arrogance at Board level

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Unbothered observer  
Two weeks ago

Not a terrible idea at all to merge associations.
Not sure hawthorn is about that life though.
Not sure Camberwell wants all that either.

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Unbothered observer  
Two weeks ago

Agree it shouldn't be free at any level.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Well, I'm betting we won’t see Hawthorn and Camberwell merge!

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Why merge associations , why should some other Association take on HBA debt . It's like buying a house and taking in someone’s else mortgage along with yours! HBA debt , HBA responsibility

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Reckon most board members don't know what they get into when joining the board of an association. Often they do it to help progress their kids dreams (... and there is often a strong correlation between selections and awards with those kids with parents on committees or team manager roles!). It’s not when an association hits the skids that they realise it’s more than just rolling up to a couple of meetings and putting it on the cv.

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Baller65  
Two weeks ago

Doubt Camberwell or hawthorn want the merge.
Camberwell have clearly done something right to have an instant competition happen for them!
And if the debt is that bad and the members are actually victims of mismanagement of the funds. Then good on these clubs for being so brave as to make a move. No doubt the change will hit the hip pocket of the for profits, highlighting again perhaps the seriousness of how they have been treated?

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Heard that a high level Board member told some Clubs and members " if your don't like it, go play somewhere else" .. so it looks like the Clubs have taken that advise .. end of story

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

The issue isn't profit or not for profit Clubs , all have been working in that competition space collectively for years . The issue is that junior domestic is the meal ticket for for HBA other programs. Meme we taken advantage of for years . The kitchen is closed and the workers have had enough ! Wooden spoon dropped and left behind..

Reply #873229 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Why doesn't BV demand associations publish their accounts? Accountability and transparency starts from the top. Otherwise disquiet starts from the bottom. All associations (and board members of associations) should take note of the lessons to be learned here.

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Baller65  
Two weeks ago

I thought associations were required to report to BV?

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

BV not the only stakeholder though ... transparency would require reporting to the members of the associations. Accounts will be made available at AGMs, but no-one attends those, and so should be published. Not much to ask, but gives transparency and results in accountability.

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Green 75  
Two weeks ago

I'm not sure BV really care. I have heard they only refunded $35 per team for the rep season that didn't go ahead and they still charged each family $25 to register this season despite not having a season last year

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

BV have said that for the period of the lock downs that they will extend player insurance registration into the next playing game season once it is safe for play to resume

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

By BV association constitution if is a requirement that all Associations who hold BV licences need to lodge Diana coals to BV within 30 days of holding there AGM , HBA have admitted to Clubs that this has not been done for a number of years ... Transparency please NOT

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Lodging with BV is one thing (although sounds like it may not have been done always!) but it's actually more important to publish for members. That’s when you get real transparency and therefore accountability... that’s just proper governance. What does BV do with the accounts anyway …

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

When do we get to see BV's books??

Reply #873246 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Accounts came out in May 2021, so expect about same time next year or a bit earlier.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Will Titans ask / require their rep
Players to move the Camberwell? Have some kids a bit worried about it so good to know if anyone does??

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Titans are all about the domestic competition. They will support their players to play with whichever rep club they choose

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

I think.when people see the prices of Camberwell they might have a think ...

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

I think.when people see the prices of Camberwell they might have a think ...

Reply #873252 | Report this post


Baller65  
Two weeks ago

No chance Titans would force them/require them to play anywhere... I also KNOW Camberwell don't want that.

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hoopie  
Two weeks ago

Camberwell domestic fees will be quite a bit cheaper than Hawthorn's, from what I hear.

No idea about rep fees, but they MUST be cheaper - because Camberwell isn't in a deep financial hole.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Am sure Camberwell rep kids and parents won't want Magics players coming across. But going to awks all round. Fees have been a problem at Magics ... and it’s not going to get cheaper me thinks.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Camberwell seem to be in good shape financially with $445,000 in the bank as of end of financial year, so won't need to charge high fees.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

No other Rep Club require a fee for tryouts , Magic have set a fee of $25 if you want to try out , this has parents concerned and also the exodus of coaches and Admin in Magic ?

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Tigers charge a fee ...$60 last year I believe

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

The lodging with BV is to ensure associations are viable from year to year. BV should be giving licences to Associations that are not financially viable and it would also call in to question, if they are not viable , what does it do to the insurance cover BV provide ??????

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

HBA have included for profit Clubs for years , happy to take their members money and help , but now , let's thrown them under the bus.. Beyond disgusting !

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Happily allowed those clubs to do the work to grow the association and thens pent the money in anything but the general member.

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Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Hawthorn have been bleeding money for years! Especially their Big V program.

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Anonymous  
Last week

BV should have some understanding of what has / is going on at Hawthorn.

Reply #873280 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I was told they asked them for help to mediate and BV said it wasn't their role!? I’m ALSO told that BV said that if they were unhappy they should leave. Wonder if they meant it!

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Anonymous  
Last week

It is interesting that HBA used to report on a segmental basis, showing revenue and surplus / deficit for each program. The latest FY 2020 accounts don't seem that have that information, but based on 2019 accounts the domestic junior program contributed about $1.4m of revenue with a surplus of $122k, whereas the senior program contributed $40k of revenue with a deficit of $188k. Close to a $200k loss for that year for the senior Magics. Domestic senior had a surplus of about $60k, so you add that to the junctions and it equals the deficit of the senior Magics. Similar numbers for FY 2018.

Not hard from those numbers to draw a line between the financial support (unwitting, for the most part) provided by domestic juniors and the senior program. I suggest it is hard to justify that on the basis that domestic junior (basically grassroots basketball) is really not there / should not be there to pay for seniors who don’t pay their way. Maybe VJBL players, but not domestic.

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Anonymous  
Last week

Senior domestic has been bleeding and Incurring sent for years , but was never reported properly due to wrong accounting practices being used at HBA, Board responsibility to sign off on budgets and financials , duty of care , not managing the former GM at the time!!! The Clubs suggesting cutting the Senior Magic , big V programs until they could afford it again , but the Board said it was an integral part of their strategic plan and pathway plan . If it was not for COVID the full extend of the debt would not have been realised ! If you look at the financials the prior 2019 balance have been reactualises for 2020... seriously fishy

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Anonymous  
Last week

Needs to be said again, all domestic comps prop up association senior representative pathways (BigV/NBL1) to some extent. Hawthorn have just clearly missed the mark on the community element of what they are doing and have taken it way too far. Seems from above a few step could have been taken to avoid getting to this point and perhaps the clubs are not the problem here (as hawthorn have tried to imply). Also seems they know it and are trying to hide it?

Reply #873284 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

How did they end up with so much financial problems? And did the board members know about it before Covid?

Reply #873285 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Am hearing from insiders that the Hawthorn will be taking a year off from entering senior Big V teams next year but keeping the Youth teams. Anyone got anymore on this?

Reply #873286 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

^ Smart move financially!

About time they did something responsible!

Reply #873287 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

If they pulled out of BigV this year, they probably wouldn't have hit this crisis point.

Reply #873290 | Report this post


Baller65  
Last week

Woah! This feed. Who needs TV?! You can't script it!

Reply #873291 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Why did they enter Big V this year? Financially irresponsible!

Should have taken the year off.

Imagine the cash they would have saved in a wasted season.

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Anonymous  
Last week

they are in such a bad way now. if they dont take drastic action they may be gone for good.

Reply #873294 | Report this post


Mike  
Last week

Subsidization of senior teams by domestic teams happens, unfortunately and unfairly, at lots of clubs. The club I was involved with ran about a $300,000 profit for domestics, broke even with junior rep and lost about $240,000 on senior rep teams. CEO was heavily involved with senior rep and made a number of economically poor (unbusinesslike) decisions. Board was also mostly involved/stacked with senior rep people. Took an awful long time and some massive upheaval to turn the ship.

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Baller65  
Last week

Maybe now they will take that drastic action. not much choice ay?
I heard the board are bullying the clubs behind the scenes and via their mates on socials. Don't know if that’s true or not. You would hope not!

Reply #873297 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Some of the posts on Instagram are interesting. Not the best forum to speak with members on this topic. Perhaps they should just have a Q&A paper and / or a zoom meeting with interested people and run through all the questions. Running commentary through Instagram looks a little odd, but I guess they need to respond somehow. This is all a real shame.

Reply #873299 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Nor is Instagram a forum for BH to state they have a signed written agreement , which isn't true, no Club has a signed affiliation agreement of exclusivity with BH , Clubs opt into a seasonal competition , at the end of the season the competition is finished , until the Club decides to opt in again if they want . Plus a Club can renter teams into different comps run by different Associations .

Reply #873305 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last week

HBA trying hard to win the spin battle.

I don't understand how they can afford a new HP director or coach right now, as well as the inevitable accountants, spin doctors, and lawyers no doubt.

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Anonymous  
Last week

Why didn't they show segmented reporting for 2020?

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Anonymous  
Last week

Segmented accounting would show where money is going and where it has come from , too transparent

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Anonymous  
Last week

Maybe BH will use the money held under their refund policy and player resilience levy fee they take to apply to lawyers and marketing spin .. would make a channeling it into Big V

Reply #873312 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Maybe another go fund me page

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Anonymous  
Last week

Camberwell Dragons AGM being held this afternoon ... would be an interesting show and looking forward to hearing about it.

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Anonymous  
Last week

100 post on a club that's gone bust??? Wow. Slow news day!

Reply #873335 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last week

'Gone bust'? You know more than we do.

If it goes that far, there will be a lot of unhappy players and parents (& people owed money by HBA).

And how much share of the liability will BV carry, if they knew of the financial issues before now?

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Anonymous  
Last week

Depend if BH has communicated that debt and financial issues with BV ?

Reply #873343 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Definitely an association in damage control trying to blame others for the underlying problems around mismanagement of funds. Someone who was a decision maker before Covid either knew, or wasn't qualified to make the decisions they were and have blown up a great basketball destination. Guess we will see

Reply #873346 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Word is prior GM was pushed , nor actually resigned ?! Question is why did some board members give him such a glowing reference , on the way out . Then again Board are meant to oversea GM and all practices within the Association

Reply #873349 | Report this post


donotreach  
Last week

Raising the bat for a 100 post thread.

Not what I expected when I asked the original question, but thought it was a topic that wasn't being explained that effects lots of kids playing the game.

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Anonymous  
Last week

Some very good learnings for all associations will come from this (and hopefully BV take note and help the associations get the benefit of those learnings).

Reply #873358 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Last week

Let's see key learnings from Hawthorne basketball craziness:

• Parents and players need to know if there are members, or not. and need to read the constitution [rules of association] of the association to which some have Incorrectly presumed they are members. [ in the case of Hawthorne players and parents are not members]
• If you don't like the rules of an association you should join a different association. Perhaps one which recognises fee-paying players, or a parent of a fee playing player as a member. And those members have voting rights at the annual general meeting
• If you are not a member you have no rights including the rights to see the finances of the association
• Members should attend annual general meetings so they understand the finances of the club/association
• Cash flow is king. don't spend the money before you've got it [ eg. paying for last season from the fees for next season]
• Board members need to understand their duties

Reply #873370 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last week

"Board members need to understand their duties" and be accountable for what happens on their watch

Reply #873374 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I have no particular knowledge of the HBA situation, but transparency is a really important point for boards. That is when you get true accountability.

I think a well run and transparent association would disclose their financials on their website (and not just to the few people that rock up to an AGM), with appropriate segmented reporting. They should also produce a meaningful annual report.

The board would also review their performance from time to time, assess their skills against a matrix of skills necessary for the association and actively pursue broad representation on the board (ie, not just their mates or people who will agree with them).

Reply #873377 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Last week

Completely agree board member should be accountable for what happens on their watch. And to do this members need to be involved. They need to attend meetings, annual general meetings, and extraordinary meetings. And they most definitely should be asking questions of their board members.

There is nothing to stop members from raising a motion at an annual general meeting, which can then be voted on by the members for quarterly reporting, or even segmented reporting, to be made available to the members.

The key is whether or not fee-paying players and or fee-paying parents of players are members. Unfortunately, in some associations, they are not.

This means the club/association can be run by a small group with potentially vested interests and not in the interest of the fee-paying members.

Reply #873378 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Safe to say the issue here was the use and abuse of the fee paying member. Only 2 of the (first) 6 clubs to leave are for profit clubs...

I think it is probably a lot to do with looking after the majority and perhaps non elite members in the association. Which is what a domestic club is meant to do! Right? A platform for everyone? And hawthorn is the only place I've heard of charging a $95 team sheet fee to teams for weeks they have a bye (ignoring the refund policy issue)…

Reply #873384 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Not sure being 'for profit' is a crime anyway if your business serves its members interests?

Reply #873385 | Report this post


T  
Last week

@donotreach

"Raising the bat for a 100 post thread."

Congrats Hawthorn on joining Chelsea, Keysy and RMIT for in the elite club 100 post club

Reply #873396 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Pretty sure one of the 38 Chelsea posts last year cracked 3 hunge

Reply #873397 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Also issues of compromise of interest , having 4 paid staff members on the Magic Board at BH , that's should be ringing alarm bells too !

Reply #873424 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Isn't one of the current or former board members now at Basketball Australia, and another former one on a committee at Basketball Victoria?

Reply #873456 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

From a board member - The senior Mens and Womens teams will take a season off next year to help the association restructure financially

Reply #873473 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Quite a few Big V players are already off to Camberwell and Bulleen

Reply #873474 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

If the rumour is true about BigV standing down for a couple of seasons that's great! Clubs have apparently being asking the Board to do that since covid brought the financial mess to light! A bit late though !!!

Reply #873510 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Hope those Big V player moving don't expect to get paid as some where at Hawthorn , might be a rude awakening for some !!

Reply #873511 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I bet Chelsea spent more than Hawthorn

Reply #873513 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

By the sounds of it Camberwell will have tons of cash to splash soon

Reply #873515 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Camberwell don't pay Rep players to play !

Reply #873521 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

If I was a player at Camberwell (BigV or VJBL) I would be seriously annoyed if my spot in a team was lost to someone coming over from Hawthorn. At lest the VJBL players are somewhat protected by the transfer rules but the Big V players aren't.

Reply #873524 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

VJBL rules only protects VJBL 3 and above. So most bottom aged players can move without restriction, and it should only affect 1s and perhaps 2s teams, limiting transfers to 2 per team. Try-outs at Camberwell, Bulleen, Blackburn etc may be interesting!

Reply #873532 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Well we'll see who plays for the love of the game at a Big V level and or how goes shopping around ?

Reply #873533 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Don't think hawthorn spent much this year on BigV.

And doubt Camberwell will be displacing loyal Camberwell kids for Hawthorn kids.

Wait and see

Reply #873537 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

*spent much on player payments this year*

Reply #873538 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Well a source inside Magic said they racked up $120K debt for Biv V , so funds are going somewhere for 4 teams

Reply #873545 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

$120K. Well over half that is the cost to just register 4 teams. Bet they didn't get any refunds from BV. Isn't this whole mess with domestic teams about refunds.

Reply #873549 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Hearing there are a lot of Camberwell Big v players not happy about the influx coming from Hawthorn

Reply #873550 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Maybe they could go to Werribee , seeing junior Rep at Hawthorn has some Werribee paid kids playing , so the rumours say!

Reply #873559 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Director of Coaching is from Weribee and has brought in his relos to coach and their kids are playing at Magic. Not a great situation and has seen some Conflicts of interest arise.

Hawthorn don't require rep players to play domestic at HBA, so those whose clubs have moved to Camberwell can still play rep with Magic. Doubt many shift to Camberwell and doubt even more than any who do are from high teams.





Reply #873571 | Report this post


donotreach  
Last week

Big V costs, at last time I knew a YL team was at least $8K a season. I haven't been in those sort of meetings in a long time so that price could of gone up

Reply #873582 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Thought Rep was meant to be for local kid who play in local comp.. not for outer regional Melbourne ... long way to drive for training 2 times a week .. that Sunday early am would be a killer

Reply #873583 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Hawthorn's best junior is from Casey....

If you don’t have to play domestic you play rep, says a lot about integrity

If you’re not having rep players play domestic, it’s also a bad model on how to run a sustainable club.

They’ve been too desperate to be a big dog, and have taken shortcuts that the big associations all do to be sustainable.

Sounds like Darebin all over again. Remember their rise and just as quick fall?

Reply #873584 | Report this post


donotreach  
Last week

Some would say still falling at Darebin, they now aren't even associated with the Ivanhoe Knights domestic and are out on their own.

Reply #873586 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Kids have been coming in to Magic from all over - Eltham, Dandenong, Tigers.

The issue I think is that becomes a really unpredictable environment for kids. You think you are at a certain level one year and then a new coach brings in a couple of kids with him and it's all turned upside down for the kids they displace. And that can happen year on year so you see some real slides.

Reply #873589 | Report this post


Turn it up  
Last week

Darebin lol

2 seasons in Big V. Compared to Hawthorn 25 years in Big V.

Reply #873605 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Who are Ivanhoe Knights?

Reply #873607 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Comparing their juniors and how quickly rose to top them how quickly they crashed

Reply #873608 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Hawthorn have a group undermining the board. Some people are going to have to go.

Reply #873612 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

That's not great. AGM is typically in December, so could be interesting.

Reply #873628 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

HAWTHorn has been a mess since the former long term president was forced out around about about 9 years ago. I Also actually am not blaming the current management in the office for a lot of this as their hands have been tied or they have just recently been appointed to their positions too (eg: the ceo).

The change in board has this vision that the two arms of the HBA which were seperately managed (junior magic and then everything else such as domestic and big v) should be managed together. In fact this new board put both the unification of the program and financial mismanagement as the reasons for this takeover too. THey complained that junior magic was not getting adequately funded by the association and that the then general manager was being paid too much for his role, neither which were true.

AT the time of the takeover Hawthorn Basketball was very solvent and could consequently fund all aspects of its operations no issues. Junior magic which was also financially self sufficient still was able to fund its operations alone as at the time they were already paying big name coaches big $ to coach for them. The issue was Magic just wanted more $ from the association to pay for the program further. There was also a very large term deposit in the bank from funds raised around the time that Hawthorn was in negotiations for the new stadium.

Under the first board change, the financial changes started with a complete gutting of domestic costs. Referee pay was lowered, records were kept for things like the amount of pens used and the balls were so old that the teams complained consistently and used to bitch about not getting a new ball for the comps at least once a season. They also lost virtually all of their senior referees for their competitions too.

The association also went from paying one general manager a modest 6 figure salary at the low end of this range who ran pretty much all facets of the organisation with volunteer support to paying multiple people to do his job. Furthermore other significant changes were made to infrastructure used such as moving from a fairly low cost office to an office which was significantly more expensive. This actually increased their costs significantly. Furthermore money was being spent left right and centre on the various magic programs including getting imports and paying players - something which had never happened previously at Hawthorn even during their d1m championship year too.

Meanwhile fees were also going up well above inflation for both rep and domestic causing irritation and concern with members and even leading to some teams leaving. The size of the domestic junior comp had also slightly contracted too since the new board took over thanks to the ways which they chose to manage the competition.

There were also two further GM changes with the first one not having his contract of 6 months renewed and the second apparently resigning due to non compatibility with this board in terms of the way forward/way to get things done.

Fast forward and the new GM was appointed to the association who was simply very disliked by multiple stakholders. Significant tension arose between key groups such as the gm and referees and the gm and clubs due to the way things were handled including a termination of staff members who had great rapport and relationships with clubs.

During this time too there were also multiple changes to the board with the incumbent president who had been responsible for the take over quitting and his hand picked successor was appointed to the role. Really this was shortlived as through the changes to the constitution when the board voted on roles he was dumped and quit the board. The current president was appointed after this time that has been responsible for either continuing to see things through based on what the former board had implemented and also actually overseeing the changes/decisions made by office management which led to these issues now at Hawthorn.

Long story short there were three elements which were responsible for Hawthorn arriving where they are now

1. Seemingly spending excessively on unnecessary items.

2. Running domestic financials like a ponzi scheme where they were paying out half the venue booking fees at the start of the season and then not bothering to pay the second half fees until they got the next lot of seasons payments (thus always a half a season behind).

Hence when COVID hit they couldn't pay the half of the fees that they then owed.

3. The failure/unwillingness to refund money to clubs who had paid in advance for domestic seasons cancelled due to issues over lockdowns.

Literally the talk going around was that this cash was going to be used to fund their ongoing expenses as the debt had blown out thanks to the combination of excessive spending and also the financial mismanagement by the office staff/GM. Hence this is how Hawthorn got into such large debt.

This is all the while the association had still been paying for additional high profile coaches etc even though some might have said that they did not have the revenue/cash for these program moves.

It should be noted that the association also had to settle out of court with a former staff member relating to their dismissal.

Furthermore the board gave praise for the GM who was responsible for the mess both in the lead up to covid and during covid. This gave a lot of people an indication that the board may have been somewhat aware of what they were doing and also actually wanting to shore up/defend their position.

Finally for the association to claim that the clubs were happy with the financial position and the actions of the association going forward is actually false. From the outset when clubs first found out that the association refused to refund fees for cancelled seasons/unplayed games there were multiple complaints made by the clubs including to the regulatory bodies as well.

I could go on further about the things that have happened over the last 9 or so years at Hawthorn, however I think this tends to be sufficient insight into what has happened to date. FURTHERMORe this explains how Hawthorn has gone from a financially sound, growing and functional association to the mess it has reached now.

Reply #873631 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Just to respond to some of the comments from the latter part of this thread that are relevant:

1. The DOC OF camberwell girls is now Dimmattina who was working in the same role at Hawthorn. Hence I WOUld not at a ll be surprised if he had people come across with him to participate in the program.

2. Most of the Hawthorn Big V Players being paid left when they got told that they wouldn't be. By rights some of those getting paid also happened to have connections to the former board members who were on the board that first instigated this decision to pay players.

3. Ivanhoe Knights are a domestic club which play in the EDJBA. They are completely separate to the Ivanhoe DARebin basketball association which runs off of the old Darebin association.

4. The reason Hawthorn went downhill so quickly was that they tended to stop paying for things like venue hire and expenses like first aid equipment upfront to make sure the competitions were functional.

5. The new general manager of Hawthorn is not the problem and rather he has got to fix the mess.

Reply #873634 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Who is the new GM at Hawthorn?

Reply #873636 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Rumour has it AGM will be early this year

Reply #873640 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Who were previous Gm's
JG
BR
?

Reply #873643 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Current board members are listed on Hawthorns website , under contact us , at the bottom , all details are their if you would like to make direct contact and make your feeling and thoughts heard ! I am sure they would love to hear from you !

Reply #873653 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

No one worried one of those listed is new ceo of Ba?

Reply #873666 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Previous GMs were

GM

Board Change:

1. Dale Ryan (served 6 month contract then was apparently not rehired)

2. Sheena Aitken (Left having to deal with issues from the board)

3. Brock Rogers (oversaw the troubles that led to the current situation)

4. Jason Kelly (Started only a couple of months ago)

Reply #873673 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I think the new BA CEO has since left the board of Hawthorn on taking that role. He'd have to have been there while all of this mess was going on though.

Reply #873676 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Yeah and I bet he had a kids in the program. Looks like it was his job to oversee the Junior rep program so all of that over payment to rep coaches and "poaching" players/coaches would have to have been on his watch right? Oh hang on there's no poaching in the VJBL right?

Reply #873686 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I don't know the situation at Hawthorn, but a general observation based on experiences at a few associations is that the kids of those people that are on boards or in TM roles tend to get v favourable treatment in terms of team selection, selection for State programs and awards at the association level. It’s a scratch my back / scratch your back scenario. In fact, I know people who actively seek those positions (often tiger mums) merely to promote their kid. It’s a sad reality, and little Johnny / Jenny all the while think they are winning those awards all on their ownsome!

This is not just a phenom in basketball - same in soccer football etc ...

Reply #873688 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Elitism at it'a worst , especially in a community space , so much for being a TRUE community not for profit basketball association ... someone needs to be accountable.. BV new about the issues Clubs we’re having and the Clubs were told it’s an association problem … mind blowing attitude

Reply #873689 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I don't have a good understanding of this situation,
Are hawthorn going bankrupr or do the have a bad administration or something else
what one is it.

Reply #873712 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

It's both. They have a huge dept. Just lost their primary income source (huge domestic junior base) so could end up being in a position of trading while insolvent.

Reply #873715 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

hawthorn tragic back at it again

Reply #873717 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

They were already trading while insolvent before covid hit, just hiding it in the accounting process they were using . Have been for 5 years

Reply #873718 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

They hid accounting information relating to payouts when they had to pay out two former staff members as a result of them getting sued and subsequently settling because they refused to pay anything for clear legal breaches.

Basically one of those payouts was recorded as a loan and they never disclosed what it was for at the AGM even though that the question of what the loan was for was asked directly to the members present.

Reply #873765 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Seems they still plan to run domestic with the bobcats as a marque club? Fees are a little higher than your average not for profit club looking at their socials about it.

Reply #873768 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

What are the costs with the Bobcats ?

Reply #873770 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

The Bobcats are apparently also managed day to day by the now former operations manager. My question is whether they will still enter now he has left or not and whether he left on good terms.

Reply #873774 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last week

What I don't understand is why anyone would be so desperate to play - or so free with their money - that they'd pony up lots of $$ when they're not certain to play games and there are no refunds whenever games aren't played.

Reply #873777 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

$375 for 2/3 of a season, plus finals plus uniforms and one assumes the refund policy isnt flash because hawthorns isn't flash.

Reply #873778 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Flash , that's an understatement , Hawthorns refund policy is a grab for cash, talk about profiting off a pandemic , $240 K plus , so called community not for profit ... Load of BS , someone’s in fantasy land !!!!

Reply #873785 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Extract from the recent announcement by Basketball Hawthorn: " While we definitely want to see our domestic competition thrive, Hawthorn Magic's financial success is not dependent upon it."

Sounds like they’re all good without the breakaway teams.

Reply #873793 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

^^ sounds like more spin doctoring

Reply #873797 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

That's interest seeing venues are screaming for money that they owe , drip feeding payments over 3 years

Reply #873801 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

There is no way Hawthorn can claim continuing Magic will be feasible without domestic $ considering they run magic and the dmoestic parts together.

Not to mention that they owe somewhere around $900K too apparently

Reply #873808 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last week

Agree re unrealistic spin - obviously trying promote confidence and not scare people off.

I immediately thought of the positive BS Pyramid Building Society put out just before they bombed.

Reply #873809 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

why does everyone care so much if they want to make money. not every club has to be not for profit.

Reply #873818 | Report this post


Callisto 51  
Last week

Bobcats? The guy runs the club as a 'not for profit' but is on a hefty full time wage and then has a for-profit business that is connected to the so called ‘not for profit’... you connect the dots … Not the move if Hawthorn are looking for a financial revive

Reply #873819 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Agree for profit/not for profit doesn't matter. But don’t lie about it or be shady about it? Given the whole Hawthorn spin on being not for profit it is a little funny that the bobcats appear to be anything but in line with that.

Reply #873820 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Bobcats are a for profit club. I'd be worried getting in bed with them.

Reply #873822 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

^^ yep they're bagging the 'for profit’ they had who is all about the members & jumping in bed with this bloke who is all about the dollars. Good luck HBA

Reply #873826 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

The attitude at Hawthorn has always been that Clubs members , who sign up to a Club , are actually Hawthorn members, NO the Clubs sign up to an Association to play in a competition on a seasonal basis, at the end of the season that transaction of competition is over till the Club opt in again OR NOT.

Hawthorn have always taken the stance that members money is theirs and they can spend it how they like .

Reply #873829 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

If you are a not for profit association in a community space , ACCOUNTABILITY, HONESTY, TRANSPARENCY Is key to build trust and integrity , Hawthorn has none of these key concept in their management process .. just arrogance, elitism at the helm of the Board (who are responsible) !

Reply #873830 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

This is boring now.

Reply #873839 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

More desperate attempts from Hawthorn at justifying financial mismanagement today with current email , that was meant for Magic players and went to everyone who has EVER players basketball there. That's how’s against your privacy policy of holding players details dor only 6 months . Oh and why is BV’s levy included in your refund pie chart , those funds go to BV for insurance , way to sque financial data in you favour ... More LIES, more MISINFORMATION , just total DESPERATION …. Move on this Crap is getting BORING

Reply #873850 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Reply #873882 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Hard for clubs to keep going during these times, and the board member are volunteers, no doubt trying to do their best.

Reply #873906 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Interesting that Titans facebook would respond positively to the post by Camberwell Dragons try-outs, but nothing for Magics. Does that indicate that Titans are in fact suggesting people move to Camberwell Dragons?? Don't want to read too much into this but those sort of signals are interesting.

Reply #873913 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

^^ Titans correspondence this week was that members should play rep wherever it suits them. They are not about the rep space, they are focused on providing the highest quality domestic game that they can for their members. No hidden agenda, very refreshing really.

Reply #873916 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

If the association was for the community and not for the elite, the not for profits in particular would have had no reason to leave. That's if you believe that a club that is run for profit doesn’t want to see their community thrive too. The focus was wrong, and the clubs left because their community wasn’t important. It looks as simple as that.

And no, I have not read their constitution, and no I’m not about to. Treat people poorly, they leave. That’s the end of it.

Reply #873917 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

"way to sque financial data in you favour ..." Way to have no one take you seriously. Not that we did anyway. Chelsea is very happy with this topic BTW.

Reply #873918 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I'm surprised this thread has lasted this long. But am quietly enjoying the broader basketball community letting hawthorn know what they have been saying behind their backs for years. Over paid staff? Poached juniors soon to go back to their own clubs? Under resourced and over priced domestic competition? Desperate to be in NBL1 for the status? It was all rumors and now it’s all in the open.

Reply #873920 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Seems it's all unraveling in Hawthorn?

Reply #873930 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I know of a Hawthorn mens player getting $500 a game under the table when the club was telling everyone that they were not paying player last year

Reply #873935 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last week

It's funny that the rot all started because the clubs felt that GMcD held too many responsibilities and this was a big mistake in terms of governance.
As well, his club supplied so many refs they had too much power over results, which they used really well in one season to get 15 out of their 16 teams (from memory) into GFs.

After giving him the push, HBA then moved to a bloated committee model, and around the same time - coincidentally? - the Magic program took off.

Reply #873940 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

This place sounds like a mess

Reply #873946 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Will BV intervene?

Reply #873947 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last week

If BV haven't intervened before, what makes you think they’d intervene now?

Public opinion, as expressed on Hoops? The exodus of some clubs?

The only reason they’d intervene is if the whole thing blows up in their faces in the media, or they stand to lose funding.

Reply #873951 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

GMcd was invested more than anyone in the current league admin space (outside maybe these clubs?). But that association was going to be in trouble tax wise regardless is what I'm told. Perhaps change was necessary, but seems a new management with that same drive is hard to come by.

Reply #873956 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

The other mixed message in Hawthorns emails is that they refunded money ... NO .. Clubs held onto the 3rd instalment as they had serious issue with the Hawthorn grab for cash , let rip off members refund policy .. IF it wasn't for the Clubs and 8 months of battling over the refunds policy Members would have had nothing returned to them except coaching and training costs !!!

Let alone the justification they need to keep 62.5 % of members money to pay Admin costs

So much for community focus ..

Reply #873961 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

And so it continues.
*reaches for third box of popcorn

Reply #873978 | Report this post


donotreach  
Last week

To think I only asked the question on this thread because I have an interest in domestic basketball (EDJBA) and thought it was weird a big club like Titans would move on to CDBA .... the Pandora's box has been opened

Reply #874002 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

The Magic club transformation took of prior to GMCD getting pushed out of the association. The first year the magic program succeeded at championship level was 2012.

Also the tax issue pretty much became a non event really. There was nothing said of it nor was there any issues relating to tax too once the new committee took over. One sees that as a pretty good smokescreen used by the new committee to try to claim misgovernance.

GMCD ran the Hawthorn Basketball Association seriously better than any of the subsequent committees or presidents.

Reply #874003 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

BV Now investigating!
Statement on their website. The "home and away" of domestic bball at the moment.

Reply #874012 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

That is good to hear - makes sense for BV to take a look and see if they can resolve matters. After all, focus should be on kids playing bball rather than all of this. Well done I say.

Reply #874016 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last week

They buckled under pressure from Hoops! We wait in hope of a sensible and financially sound resolution

Reply #874018 | Report this post


Anon  
Last week

You know what stop all the BS with too many VJBL clubs? 1 per LGA. Get rid of the rest

Reply #874019 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

So more desperation and spin tonight from Basketball Hawthorn , way to spin a statement from BV , that is investigating them , due to financial issue and not being fully honest in their position with BV .

No respect for members , no respect for due process !

Reply #874024 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

BV have listens to the masses on hoops!

Reply #874039 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Can't believe this has over 200 posts

Reply #874040 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

BA CEO gave the post re the investigation the thumbs up on Facebook, so I guess BA seem supportive of this investigation.

Reply #874045 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last week

Given that the BA CEO came from Basketball Hawthorn just recently, he'd want to get this sorted ASAP.

Reply #874047 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Is it appropriate for the BA CEO to wage in on domestic basketball affairs? Is he still listed as a board member there? I know he stood down but was still on the hawthorn website the other day.

Imagine justifying a $95 team sheet charge for weeks you have a bye. Or maybe only refunding 50% of that for games cancelled for Covid.

Then imagine your community being ok with that? Bet they wouldn't be...

Reply #874053 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

BA CEO has now removed his "thumbs-up" from the Basketball Hawthorn Facebook post re the investigation. Not sure what to read into any of that.

Reply #874069 | Report this post


Grassroots Guru  
Last week

He had no place engaging in it anyway.
Good call on his part as Hawthorn is making a bad situation worse for itself crying to BV after treating its members so badly. What a mess!

Reply #874070 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

If you are in a toxic, abusive and undermining relationship , you leave .

Clubs left BH due to ongoing frustration and arrogance from the Board , financial demands on members to pay a debt that wasn't incurred by them , then continued to profit thru the refund policy BH implemented to further prop up the Assoc. Before covid , there was NO refund policy .

Clubs followed BH constitution and BV constitution, as required. Relationship over. Plus Clubs opt in on a season basis, there is NO contractual obligations .

NOW more slander and defamation and lies.

This sort of behaviour warrants BH to have their licence pulled by BV.

No care for the community , no respect for families or player .

Move on .. Hawthorn your dumped !

Reply #874071 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

You would think Hawthorn having the BA CEO in their corner is going to make sure they get out of this ok

Reply #874075 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

The BA CEO gets a corner?

Reply #874080 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last week

He's been backed into it LOL

Reply #874082 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

The BV investigation should be squarely set on BH and their lies (6+ years of them). Last night's BH communication makes it looks as though BH instigated the BV investigation and is more spin. Hopefully BV uncover their financial mismanagement and drag them over the coals for it.

I have heard that multiple clubs have BV correspondence that encouraged them to look for another association if they didn't like BH's style/mess. Would love to see that hit the public domain...

Can't blame the clubs, sounds like they have been at this for a while and made the tough call to move on.

Clubs and members are over it. BH should crawl back under their rock and let clubs play where they want.

Reply #874097 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

The above is interesting. If BV knew and supported the clubs leaving what's the expected outcome of their investigation???

Reply #874107 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

More hysteria from Hawthorn over night acting like a tabloid rag , oh wait a minute the Chair of the Board works for a large media org , that explains the management style /culture , NO care for facts, truth , respect or due diligence. Just attention seeking comments which are total fiction , only good enough to line your budgies cage ! What rot

Reply #874113 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

What do they say , never let the TRUTH get in the way of a good story ....Shame Hawthorn Shame !

Reply #874134 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Shame on Hawthorn? Are you on drugs?

Camberwell out right poached domestic clubs, rep players and coaches to try and build their new competition.

Bv need to make an example of Camberwell.

Reply #874192 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Might need to check your facts...
Clubs wanted out and camberwell were the best option among others.
Hawthorn had their chances but arrogance and incompetence finished them.

BV should make an example of Hawthorn. Poor governance and financial compliance... they need to be held accountable...

Reply #874197 | Report this post


interested_baller  
Earlier this week

I agree. Sounds like Camberwell did everyone a favour.

My question and I can't find the answer on this page is... How can BH have got so far into debt (I heard up to 900k) and no one is asking questions from a governing body?

I mean shouldn't BV be investigating this so called financial mis-management of a not-for-profit association?

Reply #874199 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

NO Club as poach, Camberwell have done nothing wrong, EVERYTHING RIGHT by the Clubs, by the community and by it's families and players.

Clubs are free do enter into ANY association competition, it's a seasonal opt in model, ALWAYS has been with BH , NOTHING has ever been signed!!!!

BV statement on Friday confirmed support "Clubs freedom of associations"

The Clubs have been in discussion and constant frustration with BH board for more than 2 years, the arrogance and Magic centric focus AT ALL COSTS, doesn't matter who pays for it (DOMESTIC) - total BLOATED EGO.

Countless meetings, zooms and 100's hours of volunteers time , to get domestic members a better deal , a fair cop, an even playing field. Seems no mercy rule applies when it comes to Hawthorn and the ripping off of funds from it cash cow.

Clubs warned BH on many occasions, Board thought it was a joke "go ahead - leave" thinking other options were not out there! So due process has been followed, notice served - notice acknowledged and received - ISSUE OVER

Reply #874202 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Earlier this week

#192 you obviously don't have a clue about what happened. If you want to believe BH spin then that’s fine, but if you were involved then you’d know the facts and you’d stop your bs.

Reply #874204 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Hopefully whatever investigation is undertaken is done promptly, because it's all about (or should be all about) getting the kids back out there playing.

Reply #874208 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Poached? That's a stretch.
Literally laughing out loud.

Reply #874213 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Not sure the investigation stops the members registering where ever they want and Camberwell and hawthorn going about their business? Only communication that implies any need to pause reengagement is the ridiculous email/socials update from Hawthorn itself. Creating doubt and actively attempting to impact participation?! Good grief! Surely someone is ashamed of those emails? Safe bet the current GM isn't at fault here. Didn’t he only get there a few months ago?

Reply #874217 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Interesting that prior comms from Hawthorn had the GM name on it , the fabrication of lies and spinning of BV statement from Hawthorn on Friday night , had from them 'Board'... new GM has more credibility / honesty to put his name to a false statement .

One could assume that the Board could have employed him as a scape goat , just more shame and mistreatments of some staff and the community !

Reply #874219 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Rumour has it , that the Chair of the Board , stood in a meeting with Clubs spruiking that they were surrounded by brilliance (referring to other board members).

Such brilliancy that has resulted to running an association into the ground and being totally detached from reality and purpose of the the association in the first place . PLAYING BASKETBALL

Sorry .. games over !

Reply #874222 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

So Hawthorns brand was already tarnished with all the gossip and financial concerns, but the email on Friday that total misrepresent the sentiment from BV statement , has just smeared that brand in a thick layer of crap! Oh and there is no way you can turn it into Nutella.

And man it stinks .....

Reply #874224 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

A real shame for Hawthorn Magic should they have to fold.

Reply #874226 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

No idea about the rights and wrongs here but the idea of Hawthorn being aggrieved by "poaching"...…I'm sure a few other associations would be saying something about pot….kettle…black.

Reply #874236 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Maybe Hawthorn should try and run another GoFundMe page called We'll Stop the Rot", thinks families would be happy to pay them to STOP sending out long winded emailed ...

Reply #874246 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

The loyalty to magic will be tested for all this for local kids and otherwise.

Reply #874251 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

^ kids will want to play for Magic - it's got a really good name amongst the kids. Parents may of course have different views, but it would be hard to move.

Reply #874254 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

I hope the kids stay and play there.... Local kids particularly.

Reply #874255 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

The Hawthorn board of management sucks ass especially with the way they have handled heaps of things. They're totally responsible for the issues that the club has and have been happily funnelling $ into the Magic part which has been both excessive and outside their means. Apparently they asked their referees to pay $20 towards their development due to having insufficient funds while paying coaches still for the upcoming rep season.

Reply #874272 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Who ran a gofundme page?

Reply #874294 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Is that even legal fir a club to do when they are trying to make a profit?

Reply #874295 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Hawthorn Basketball ran one at the start of the pandemic last year.

Reply #874301 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Clubs have NEVER run a GoFundMe page !

It was Hawthorn Basketball!

Reply #874311 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

How much in debt are they?

Reply #874322 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

It was hundreds of thousands of dollars at the start of the pandemic.

Reply #874326 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

What was it spent on?

Reply #874356 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Who do they owe?

Reply #874357 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Stadiums? Uniform suppliers? Surely not staff?!

Reply #874362 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

They got told to bugger off by one venue a few years ago that they had been using for years and regularly because they apparently owed them $150,000 in hire

Reply #874370 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Basically they owe everyone , venues , ATO , BV, not sure about staff entitlements. Spent an enormous amount on Magic uniforms $150K but no buyers for them and some needed to be written of as it had old sponsorship on it. The rebranding and marketing of Magic has cost a fortune and the rest on Big V $180K per year loss.

Had a big picture strategy , but no means but domestic to funds it . Cash cow has walked .. time to wake up to reality!

Reply #874374 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

IF I was a supplier , I would be going to a lawyer or debt collector VERY quickly!

Reply #874375 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Some are before the chance of claiming money goes

Reply #874383 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Not good for Hawthorn, more Clubs have left ..... and then their we're NONE

Reply #874406 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Just saw that the Richmond club is out. Do they hve any clubs left?

Reply #874408 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Where did they go?

Reply #874417 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

All to Camberwell I assume?

Reply #874421 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Or EDJBA always an option

Reply #874422 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Maybe the head of Basketball at Hawthorn can bring some more relos from Werribee to play in a team against the Peninsular Bobcats team ..

Reply #874423 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Basketball in Hawthorn will survive. But maybe a less than graceful step down from the community built throne will come with some lessons on how to treat people and manage money?

Reply #874439 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Why has a team from the Peninsula go to Hawthorn?

Reply #874445 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

So seems like the former staff member of hawthorn jason weidemann is working for the organisation sports administration services which handles the bobcats management amongst other things too.

I wonder whether Jason's links to Hawthorn as the former operations manager are what was the reason that they ended up entering their club/teams in Hawthorn's domestic competition?

Ironic that Hawthorn did not think that their little lie about these for profit clubs being a problem with basketball at Hawthorn wouldn't be exposed either hahahahahahahahaha.

Have no idea why Jason Weidemann left Hawthorn too.

Reply #874446 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Jason left Hawthorn due to ongoing issues with micro managing from the Board, who thought they new best. Jason was all for streamlining the programs and making Big V a self funding program , but Board would not divert from Strategic Plan, "win at all costs" . The mental health strain this board has put on staff has been enormous - pushing a plan that staff don't align with morally or on a personal value basis.

You don't rip your community off!

Reply #874451 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

This makes much more sense. Seems that the toxic element in this has been the board and not the staff (aside from the former general manager and the issues around payment of fees for venues)

Reply #874452 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Earlier this week

Which is what drove the clubs to leave ...

Reply #874454 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

The staff have had it tough, they should be commended for keep fronting up, the Venues and suppliers are also hurting, they need their money and some of these debts go back before COVID and now will be drip fed for another 2 years.

The new GM , has been treated as a buffer for the Board, and due to the Boards total arrogance and inability to pivot business strategy and mindset, has left the organisation doomed to failure , as domestic are tired of being used and of the ongoing battle, to ensure the community and grass roots basketball gets a fair crack!

Reply #874457 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

It's a colossal mess and it looks like that board has spent a long time bullying their way through to get what they want. Surely enough is enough on this one?!

Reply #874501 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

This thread is a saga indeed. Hard to know where the reality is. Would be interesting to read any investigation by BV in due course, if they release that. Think they need to say something, and hopefully soon. Who would be a member of a board at an association ??!

Reply #874513 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

This thread is a saga indeed. Hard to know where the reality is. Would be interesting to read any investigation by BV in due course, if they release that. Think they need to say something, and hopefully soon. Who would be a member of a board at an association ??!

Reply #874514 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

BVs investigation appears to be into the association itself. Their statement on the issues seems vague and almost forced. Like they felt they didn't have a choice but to comment publicly. They Certainly don’t seem keen to step in on association matters at all, but perhaps this is a reminder that maybe they should do some health checks. Prevention rather than waiting for the bomb to go off.

Reply #874522 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

The board seems to have tried to strong arm through all this. Not a great leadership style in a community level association. If the debt was made public at the start of the pandemic it's safe to say that the clubs have tried to make this work before almost being forced out. People always have options and treating the people you NEED poorly isn’t exactly a great retention strategy. Exhibit A: Hawthorn Basketball

Reply #874523 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

BV certainly should be providing guidance and undertaking health checks on associations. Surely they provide base level training and support on governance and financial management? If not, then they are sleepwalking into problems.

Reply #874524 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

in this thread everyone is basically saying the same thing over and over again.

Reply #874525 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

I thought associations had to report to basketball Victoria? Sounds like this financial hole was going to be hard to miss? Unless reporting doesn't actually happen or the reporting isn’t accurate? Hawthorns spending isn’t a secret and their high fees are not a secret either. But I’m sure nobody anticipated this fall.

Reply #874526 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

Agree! This goes around in circles. Time for BV to say something other than 'we should probably look at how this happened'.

Reply #874528 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

in this thread everyone is basically saying the same thing over and over again.

Reply #874533 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

It seems BV report to Hawthorn.

Hawthorn some how have a heap of pull.

Reply #874534 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

ah yes a heap of pull

Reply #874537 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

Would hope that BV will be transparent!

Alot of volunteers donate 1000's of hours to keep Clubs running and kids on court and do their financial due diligence , as they are operating in a community space.

Hawthorn and BV should be do their!!

If BV have any creditability, is shouldn't matter that the CEO of BA , who was the Chair of Magic, should hold no sway!

But then again , it might just come down to EGO and Image - NOT TRUETH and FACTS

Reply #874551 | Report this post




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