donotreach
Two months ago

Hawthorn Basketball Crazies

What in the blazes is happening at Hawthorn, Titans a huge domestic program moves to Camberwell District Association (never heard of them) heard a bunch of other teams are leaving, then bobcats a club from Mornington?? are joining the comp??

Has hoops gone mad, is Hawhthorn stable - remember talk here they wanted to go NBL1 ASAP and it seems with a club like titans moving that had plenty of rep player in its ranks. Crazy stuff for that little leafy pocket of Melbourne.

what other clubs play at CDBA?? Balwyn are EDJBA and so are Koonung two of the normal feeders for Camberwell VJBL.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

That is very strange. Could not believe it so looked at the relevant club websites and seems to be correct.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Comments on the Hawthorn Basketball Association Instagram page make interesting reading. Just based on those, looks like there's a bit involved. Good win by Camberwell - they could be strong this year, and perhaps the kids that moved / were enticed from clubs like Bulleen and Melb might wander back.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Does this mean half of Hawthorn Magics will go across to Camberwell Dragons? That will be disruptive to Camberwell, as much as Hawthorn. Looks like a mess.

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Unknown  
Two months ago

Bulleen isn't enticing any players, carry on..

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hawthorn men are looking at dropping out of Champ men and women as they have no money to spend on players. Both men and women will play Div 1

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

The clubs rise has been a house of cards, rich inner east folks throwing money around at junior coaches for years to attract talent. Ex nbl players getting $10k+ to coach 14's ffs.
No stadium of their own, no land to build their own.
Covid and the loss of income couldn’t see coming but it has exposed a flawed way to 'build’ an association.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Thought there were a number of Bulleen kids that went across to Hawthorn a few years back?

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Will be interesting to see knock-on to VJBL - look forward to reading the clearance list to see how many leave Hawthorn, and where they go.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

It's pretty silly having two associations so close to each other. Would make sense to merge.
Would be hard pressed to find associations being as close to each other as these two.

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donotreach  
Two months ago

No club wants to come out of Championship division even if they don't have any money LOOK at Blackburn they should of requested a drop years ago but the nae of being in the comp is too good for business.

Yes they overspent and then went to the wall when COVID hit which says alot about whatever the financial model was, but this is domestic not rep or Big V and why you would use that money to prop up senior prorgams is beyond me.

Was BV involved in this? Lots of talk about profit making clubs etc on facebook posts and refunds from COVID.

Reality is without COVID none of this comes out - I feel for the kids and the people who did put their heart into it

The fact is Magic are advertising for HP Manager while all this is going on, surely you would avoid this role as it sounds like the place is built on sand at the moment.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Camberwell don't (at least until now) have a domestic comp. Magic did and these couple of clubs got too big for them and ran off to create their own comp (the private clubs, ie for profit). Will be interesting if any of the junior rep players follow. BV transfer rules prevent players moving en masse to a single club.

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hoopie  
Two months ago

not totally correct, #154

Both for-profit and not-for-profit domestic clubs went across to Camberwell. Hawthorn tried to spin it as only the biggest for-profit one leaving (there are at least two) because that was no longer compatible with the aims of the association.

This is totally independent of the Magic or Senior programs, which MAY be able to survive on their own without the domestic money. We'll have to wait and see.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

^ think BV will be forced to change that rule through necessity. If a kid is playing domestic at a club that moves to a new association should be able to represent that new association (can't just say only 2 of them can!). It’s different here, because while clubs have moved, and not an example of kids being poached.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

hoopie - I wonder how they afford to pay the admin and coaches (and the senior players) the same amount with a reduced number of teams? They already had in place some form of financial recovery plan, and now the source of revenue has been hit. It's a shame to see all of this come about.

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Hoopie  
Two months ago

#162 I agree with all that you said.

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Anon  
Two months ago

^ think BV will be forced to change that rule through necessity. If a kid is playing domestic at a club that moves to a new association should be able to represent that new association (can't just say only 2 of them can!).
---
Unlikely. Many associations allow you to enter a single team. I used to coach a team, We had players players from 4 different associations and moved our team from 1 association to another to avoid being split up at our old association. 7 out of 8 were playing VC. If you were to change the rule per say we could have all joined the new association and would have had 6 players potenitally playing in the same team the following year due to ages.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

I coach at hawthorn, who are the u14 coaches that earn 10k a year ex nbl players?
Girls coach was a cricket player boys played seabl at best?

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donotreach  
Two months ago

If you coach there and don't know then not sure you're the best person to ask.
whats Tom Maher on? or do you think he rolls down there out of the goodness of his heart, Brogan, Timmons, Adonis was there at one point, hmm tryng to think off the top of my head Jack Fleming moved from DVBA to go there, surely it wasn't for petrol money. I know a coach from another club that was offered $6k and to bring two players with him.

I have no problem mind you with what they did, COVID hurt this plan or maybe the financials didn't take into account what happens if this sort thing happens, BUT coaches were being paid overs and any coach worth their own weight in the game knew it from across other clubs.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Donotreach
I know all the coaches. I wasn't asking you. Tom Maher never played. I'm sure he was paid, Michelle Brogan coached the u12 girls for years, ex opal apparently fantastic with that age group of girls. U18 girls coach plated nbl? Again been there for years most likely deserved every $ he earned also.
The pandemic has impacted all associations equally it hasn't discriminated. I personally moved from another club several years ago and found the change refreshing and welcoming. Great environment for the kids.
I have no idea regarding the domestic competition hope they all sort themselves out.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Are coaches leaving the association?

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Fleming has left to coach at the jumping jacks.

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donotreach  
Two months ago

Anonymous

Hey as I said if a club can and wants to pay for high quality coaches then I am ALL for it, I think VJBL exploits good coaches in this state from making a living coaching the game for the time they put in.

Its a shame whats happened to HBA, I just wondered if they forgot about domestic and spent too much time worrying about the top end of the game. As I said building a house sand. Clearly it has hurt HBA more than most clubs while some have struggled they are back on level terms going into hopefully a clear run in 2022 but I'm not sure a substandard domestic comp is going to help HBA aspirations and lofty ones they have.

No hate here - just saw the news and must admit I knew the issues with Rep money but didn't know it had effected domestic.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Donotreach
Maybe they just go the tigers route and have no domestic comp to work with/from?
I don't think msac is theirs? Same as the hawthorn base not being their own?
As I stated the magic have been nothing but a positive experience from my point of view and I have been around the game for probably too long.
I'm sure it will all work out. People have been knocking hawthorn for a while now for the perception of being entitled for a while, myself included back in the day.
Volunteer, get involved for the right reasons anywhere and it all pays off in the end!


They payed me 20k to coach the 4s by the way.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Sounds like a debacle. Domestic depth will hurt, both in terms of $ and also players leaving rep. 2021 accounts will make an interesting read when they come out in December.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

$20k, yeah righto.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

For a new player, they charged $825! Not including score sheets or the resilience plan payment. Surely that is a lot more than other associations! What do others pay?

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Baller65  
Two months ago

The league and clubs agreed to a 4 year plan that helped them pay off a HUGE debt that was uncovered by the initial stop in play. our club was asked for money up front with no refunds offered BEFORE the league told them they were in any debt at all. It was 4 years to avoid the current member copping a bill for 5 years of 'accidental?' Financial mismanagement.

They are charging so high and withholding funds linked to games cancelled due to covid the members themselves are frustrated.. Half of the team sheet amounts were kept plus the full amount of first two is what their website says... no secret Hawthorn over charge…and no surprise the clubs (making money or otherwise) looked for a better option for their members… can u blame them? $95 team sheets?!

Magic: seems mistreatment of the clubs OGs sparked an exodus of the upper end in the girls program. Definitely have been 10k payments for coaches at that club in the past, but I thought that had been reduced a little? Don’t know much about magic.

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Baller65  
Two months ago

BigV.
Their women's coach walked out because of the way the club treated the other coaches in the program... at least that’s what I heard.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

$825 is way too much. Frankston's is $500 or $550 which is probably a little low considering their coaching lineup (all volunteers). $600 - $650 seems like the fair amount and enough to at least give your coaches petrol money

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

So they expect parents of kids coming through u12 / u16 / u18 to pay for financial mismanagement of the past, plus keep paying up to support the senior programme. $825 and $95 team sheets is way overs. Add tournaments and entry fees, probably paying a few thousand to play junior basketball. Perhaps the price will go up further given large clubs have left domestic.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hawthorn have dug this hole themselves. They were screwing the domestic clubs big time. I'm hearing now that they’ve moved, clubs have been able to pass on significant savings to families, let by the 'for profit’

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

*led

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Baller65  
Two months ago

Hawthorn Magic:
Apparently they ran a development squad and charged $250 for it.... Got two sessions done and refunded $50! I'm not connected to that directly, just what I’ve been told! I assume they got a tshirt and drink bottle or something too (surely!!!)

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Yes, all not-for-profit means is that no-one takes out equity. It doesn't mean that the money raised through revenues is used for some higher purpose. It doesn’t mean that a not for profit club cannot pay coaches and apply funds disproportionately towards certain parts of the basketball program.

A relevant question for a domestic basketball family who does not play rep is how much of my fees are being used for my kid and the programme offered to my kid, and how much is being used for rep / senior programme?

Seems that Hawthorn is learning a lesson about how important it is to look after the domestic clubs, which support the broader programme.

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Unbothered observer  
Two months ago

Seems like an undertone of we can charge what we want, what are they gonna do about it? And the domestic clubs there as a group are doing something about it.

Funny that they are spitting hate at for profit clubs yet enlisting the bobcats: another for profit club (I'm sure a really great one at that). Whatever, but it highlights the lack of consistency in their message.

Has drowning written all over it.
And where is the Management team that accrued this debt now? Surely not the new GMs fault?

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Baller65  
Two months ago

Also doubt Hannah Lowe (Titans) would just pack up and shift without serious cause. Hasn't she been there since Hawthorn started?

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Did the board leave when they found the financial problem? They would be volunteers.

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Baller65  
Two months ago

I think most of the board stayed (to their credit)... but also, probably not something they wanted to be attached to should it go south.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Reply #873212 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

That's $300 more registration fees than my association. Wow.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

This drives me crazy the perception that Juniors pay for Senior . All the clubs I know ask Senior Big V players to find their own sponsorship or pay a fee, anywhere from 500 to 1000. VJBL parents you are not propping up senior BIG V programs at 80% of associations. Ask you administrators for a break down of your VJBL fees. You may be surprised as it goes towards uniforms. balls, court hire end of year trophy's and coaches development. Hawthorne no different to the rest of us.

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Baller65  
Two months ago

You are right, all associations members contribute to the pathway'up’. And hawthorn is obviously no exception.

But when associations discover they are in 100s of thousands of dollars of debt at the start of a pandemic, would all of those associations keep running the most expenses arm of their pathway? Or maybe dial it down?

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Unbothered observer  
Two months ago

Note that hawthorns seniors generate no revenue and the players don't pay to be part of it. Went to a game this year and sat in the bustling crowd of 6 people (including my kid).
That’s not how other associations operate at all. Those programs find ways to give back.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

What is a little worrying is that many associations do not publish their financial statements on their websites. For transparency, that is really important. Hawthorn does to their credit. Other associations do not and should ... if I was on a board at one of the associations that is exactly what I would be requiring so that everyone has a full and transparent view of the association. Failure to do so just raises questions. The days of acceptance of no transparency and a lack of accountability, including for not for profits, is behind us.

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Unbothered observer  
Two months ago

Agree with that.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Merge a couple of associations seems to be the go.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Can someone pls explain to be , why it is okay for a association to assume that Jnr domestic should be paying for a Big V program , that costs $150 - 180 k per year, when none of the players are expected to pay for rego , uniforms or source sponsorship and a Board calls this a pathway requirement .

We are talking about junior grass roots basketball , the pathway for those players interested is Junior rep.

You want to play ball , then pay for it ... NOT A FREE RIDE for some , this is the arrogance at Board level

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Unbothered observer  
Two months ago

Not a terrible idea at all to merge associations.
Not sure hawthorn is about that life though.
Not sure Camberwell wants all that either.

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Unbothered observer  
Two months ago

Agree it shouldn't be free at any level.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Well, I'm betting we won’t see Hawthorn and Camberwell merge!

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Why merge associations , why should some other Association take on HBA debt . It's like buying a house and taking in someone’s else mortgage along with yours! HBA debt , HBA responsibility

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Reckon most board members don't know what they get into when joining the board of an association. Often they do it to help progress their kids dreams (... and there is often a strong correlation between selections and awards with those kids with parents on committees or team manager roles!). It’s not when an association hits the skids that they realise it’s more than just rolling up to a couple of meetings and putting it on the cv.

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Baller65  
Two months ago

Doubt Camberwell or hawthorn want the merge.
Camberwell have clearly done something right to have an instant competition happen for them!
And if the debt is that bad and the members are actually victims of mismanagement of the funds. Then good on these clubs for being so brave as to make a move. No doubt the change will hit the hip pocket of the for profits, highlighting again perhaps the seriousness of how they have been treated?

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Heard that a high level Board member told some Clubs and members " if your don't like it, go play somewhere else" .. so it looks like the Clubs have taken that advise .. end of story

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

The issue isn't profit or not for profit Clubs , all have been working in that competition space collectively for years . The issue is that junior domestic is the meal ticket for for HBA other programs. Meme we taken advantage of for years . The kitchen is closed and the workers have had enough ! Wooden spoon dropped and left behind..

Reply #873229 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Why doesn't BV demand associations publish their accounts? Accountability and transparency starts from the top. Otherwise disquiet starts from the bottom. All associations (and board members of associations) should take note of the lessons to be learned here.

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Baller65  
Two months ago

I thought associations were required to report to BV?

Reply #873234 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

BV not the only stakeholder though ... transparency would require reporting to the members of the associations. Accounts will be made available at AGMs, but no-one attends those, and so should be published. Not much to ask, but gives transparency and results in accountability.

Reply #873235 | Report this post


Green 75  
Two months ago

I'm not sure BV really care. I have heard they only refunded $35 per team for the rep season that didn't go ahead and they still charged each family $25 to register this season despite not having a season last year

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

BV have said that for the period of the lock downs that they will extend player insurance registration into the next playing game season once it is safe for play to resume

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

By BV association constitution if is a requirement that all Associations who hold BV licences need to lodge Diana coals to BV within 30 days of holding there AGM , HBA have admitted to Clubs that this has not been done for a number of years ... Transparency please NOT

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Lodging with BV is one thing (although sounds like it may not have been done always!) but it's actually more important to publish for members. That’s when you get real transparency and therefore accountability... that’s just proper governance. What does BV do with the accounts anyway …

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

When do we get to see BV's books??

Reply #873246 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Accounts came out in May 2021, so expect about same time next year or a bit earlier.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Will Titans ask / require their rep
Players to move the Camberwell? Have some kids a bit worried about it so good to know if anyone does??

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Titans are all about the domestic competition. They will support their players to play with whichever rep club they choose

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think.when people see the prices of Camberwell they might have a think ...

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think.when people see the prices of Camberwell they might have a think ...

Reply #873252 | Report this post


Baller65  
Two months ago

No chance Titans would force them/require them to play anywhere... I also KNOW Camberwell don't want that.

Reply #873253 | Report this post


hoopie  
Two months ago

Camberwell domestic fees will be quite a bit cheaper than Hawthorn's, from what I hear.

No idea about rep fees, but they MUST be cheaper - because Camberwell isn't in a deep financial hole.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Am sure Camberwell rep kids and parents won't want Magics players coming across. But going to awks all round. Fees have been a problem at Magics ... and it’s not going to get cheaper me thinks.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Camberwell seem to be in good shape financially with $445,000 in the bank as of end of financial year, so won't need to charge high fees.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

No other Rep Club require a fee for tryouts , Magic have set a fee of $25 if you want to try out , this has parents concerned and also the exodus of coaches and Admin in Magic ?

Reply #873259 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Tigers charge a fee ...$60 last year I believe

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

The lodging with BV is to ensure associations are viable from year to year. BV should be giving licences to Associations that are not financially viable and it would also call in to question, if they are not viable , what does it do to the insurance cover BV provide ??????

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

HBA have included for profit Clubs for years , happy to take their members money and help , but now , let's thrown them under the bus.. Beyond disgusting !

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Happily allowed those clubs to do the work to grow the association and thens pent the money in anything but the general member.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hawthorn have been bleeding money for years! Especially their Big V program.

Reply #873269 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

BV should have some understanding of what has / is going on at Hawthorn.

Reply #873280 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I was told they asked them for help to mediate and BV said it wasn't their role!? I’m ALSO told that BV said that if they were unhappy they should leave. Wonder if they meant it!

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

It is interesting that HBA used to report on a segmental basis, showing revenue and surplus / deficit for each program. The latest FY 2020 accounts don't seem that have that information, but based on 2019 accounts the domestic junior program contributed about $1.4m of revenue with a surplus of $122k, whereas the senior program contributed $40k of revenue with a deficit of $188k. Close to a $200k loss for that year for the senior Magics. Domestic senior had a surplus of about $60k, so you add that to the junctions and it equals the deficit of the senior Magics. Similar numbers for FY 2018.

Not hard from those numbers to draw a line between the financial support (unwitting, for the most part) provided by domestic juniors and the senior program. I suggest it is hard to justify that on the basis that domestic junior (basically grassroots basketball) is really not there / should not be there to pay for seniors who don’t pay their way. Maybe VJBL players, but not domestic.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

Senior domestic has been bleeding and Incurring sent for years , but was never reported properly due to wrong accounting practices being used at HBA, Board responsibility to sign off on budgets and financials , duty of care , not managing the former GM at the time!!! The Clubs suggesting cutting the Senior Magic , big V programs until they could afford it again , but the Board said it was an integral part of their strategic plan and pathway plan . If it was not for COVID the full extend of the debt would not have been realised ! If you look at the financials the prior 2019 balance have been reactualises for 2020... seriously fishy

Reply #873283 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Needs to be said again, all domestic comps prop up association senior representative pathways (BigV/NBL1) to some extent. Hawthorn have just clearly missed the mark on the community element of what they are doing and have taken it way too far. Seems from above a few step could have been taken to avoid getting to this point and perhaps the clubs are not the problem here (as hawthorn have tried to imply). Also seems they know it and are trying to hide it?

Reply #873284 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

How did they end up with so much financial problems? And did the board members know about it before Covid?

Reply #873285 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Am hearing from insiders that the Hawthorn will be taking a year off from entering senior Big V teams next year but keeping the Youth teams. Anyone got anymore on this?

Reply #873286 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

^ Smart move financially!

About time they did something responsible!

Reply #873287 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

If they pulled out of BigV this year, they probably wouldn't have hit this crisis point.

Reply #873290 | Report this post


Baller65  
Two months ago

Woah! This feed. Who needs TV?! You can't script it!

Reply #873291 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Why did they enter Big V this year? Financially irresponsible!

Should have taken the year off.

Imagine the cash they would have saved in a wasted season.

Reply #873293 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

they are in such a bad way now. if they dont take drastic action they may be gone for good.

Reply #873294 | Report this post


Mike  
Two months ago

Subsidization of senior teams by domestic teams happens, unfortunately and unfairly, at lots of clubs. The club I was involved with ran about a $300,000 profit for domestics, broke even with junior rep and lost about $240,000 on senior rep teams. CEO was heavily involved with senior rep and made a number of economically poor (unbusinesslike) decisions. Board was also mostly involved/stacked with senior rep people. Took an awful long time and some massive upheaval to turn the ship.

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Baller65  
Two months ago

Maybe now they will take that drastic action. not much choice ay?
I heard the board are bullying the clubs behind the scenes and via their mates on socials. Don't know if that’s true or not. You would hope not!

Reply #873297 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Some of the posts on Instagram are interesting. Not the best forum to speak with members on this topic. Perhaps they should just have a Q&A paper and / or a zoom meeting with interested people and run through all the questions. Running commentary through Instagram looks a little odd, but I guess they need to respond somehow. This is all a real shame.

Reply #873299 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Nor is Instagram a forum for BH to state they have a signed written agreement , which isn't true, no Club has a signed affiliation agreement of exclusivity with BH , Clubs opt into a seasonal competition , at the end of the season the competition is finished , until the Club decides to opt in again if they want . Plus a Club can renter teams into different comps run by different Associations .

Reply #873305 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

HBA trying hard to win the spin battle.

I don't understand how they can afford a new HP director or coach right now, as well as the inevitable accountants, spin doctors, and lawyers no doubt.

Reply #873306 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Why didn't they show segmented reporting for 2020?

Reply #873307 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Segmented accounting would show where money is going and where it has come from , too transparent

Reply #873311 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Maybe BH will use the money held under their refund policy and player resilience levy fee they take to apply to lawyers and marketing spin .. would make a channeling it into Big V

Reply #873312 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Maybe another go fund me page

Reply #873327 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Camberwell Dragons AGM being held this afternoon ... would be an interesting show and looking forward to hearing about it.

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Anonymous  
Two months ago

100 post on a club that's gone bust??? Wow. Slow news day!

Reply #873335 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

'Gone bust'? You know more than we do.

If it goes that far, there will be a lot of unhappy players and parents (& people owed money by HBA).

And how much share of the liability will BV carry, if they knew of the financial issues before now?

Reply #873338 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Depend if BH has communicated that debt and financial issues with BV ?

Reply #873343 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Definitely an association in damage control trying to blame others for the underlying problems around mismanagement of funds. Someone who was a decision maker before Covid either knew, or wasn't qualified to make the decisions they were and have blown up a great basketball destination. Guess we will see

Reply #873346 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Word is prior GM was pushed , nor actually resigned ?! Question is why did some board members give him such a glowing reference , on the way out . Then again Board are meant to oversea GM and all practices within the Association

Reply #873349 | Report this post


donotreach  
Two months ago

Raising the bat for a 100 post thread.

Not what I expected when I asked the original question, but thought it was a topic that wasn't being explained that effects lots of kids playing the game.

Reply #873354 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Some very good learnings for all associations will come from this (and hopefully BV take note and help the associations get the benefit of those learnings).

Reply #873358 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Two months ago

Let's see key learnings from Hawthorne basketball craziness:

• Parents and players need to know if there are members, or not. and need to read the constitution [rules of association] of the association to which some have Incorrectly presumed they are members. [ in the case of Hawthorne players and parents are not members]
• If you don't like the rules of an association you should join a different association. Perhaps one which recognises fee-paying players, or a parent of a fee playing player as a member. And those members have voting rights at the annual general meeting
• If you are not a member you have no rights including the rights to see the finances of the association
• Members should attend annual general meetings so they understand the finances of the club/association
• Cash flow is king. don't spend the money before you've got it [ eg. paying for last season from the fees for next season]
• Board members need to understand their duties

Reply #873370 | Report this post


hoopie  
Two months ago

"Board members need to understand their duties" and be accountable for what happens on their watch

Reply #873374 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I have no particular knowledge of the HBA situation, but transparency is a really important point for boards. That is when you get true accountability.

I think a well run and transparent association would disclose their financials on their website (and not just to the few people that rock up to an AGM), with appropriate segmented reporting. They should also produce a meaningful annual report.

The board would also review their performance from time to time, assess their skills against a matrix of skills necessary for the association and actively pursue broad representation on the board (ie, not just their mates or people who will agree with them).

Reply #873377 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Two months ago

Completely agree board member should be accountable for what happens on their watch. And to do this members need to be involved. They need to attend meetings, annual general meetings, and extraordinary meetings. And they most definitely should be asking questions of their board members.

There is nothing to stop members from raising a motion at an annual general meeting, which can then be voted on by the members for quarterly reporting, or even segmented reporting, to be made available to the members.

The key is whether or not fee-paying players and or fee-paying parents of players are members. Unfortunately, in some associations, they are not.

This means the club/association can be run by a small group with potentially vested interests and not in the interest of the fee-paying members.

Reply #873378 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Safe to say the issue here was the use and abuse of the fee paying member. Only 2 of the (first) 6 clubs to leave are for profit clubs...

I think it is probably a lot to do with looking after the majority and perhaps non elite members in the association. Which is what a domestic club is meant to do! Right? A platform for everyone? And hawthorn is the only place I've heard of charging a $95 team sheet fee to teams for weeks they have a bye (ignoring the refund policy issue)…

Reply #873384 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Not sure being 'for profit' is a crime anyway if your business serves its members interests?

Reply #873385 | Report this post


T  
Two months ago

@donotreach

"Raising the bat for a 100 post thread."

Congrats Hawthorn on joining Chelsea, Keysy and RMIT for in the elite club 100 post club

Reply #873396 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Pretty sure one of the 38 Chelsea posts last year cracked 3 hunge

Reply #873397 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Also issues of compromise of interest , having 4 paid staff members on the Magic Board at BH , that's should be ringing alarm bells too !

Reply #873424 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Isn't one of the current or former board members now at Basketball Australia, and another former one on a committee at Basketball Victoria?

Reply #873456 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

From a board member - The senior Mens and Womens teams will take a season off next year to help the association restructure financially

Reply #873473 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Quite a few Big V players are already off to Camberwell and Bulleen

Reply #873474 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

If the rumour is true about BigV standing down for a couple of seasons that's great! Clubs have apparently being asking the Board to do that since covid brought the financial mess to light! A bit late though !!!

Reply #873510 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hope those Big V player moving don't expect to get paid as some where at Hawthorn , might be a rude awakening for some !!

Reply #873511 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I bet Chelsea spent more than Hawthorn

Reply #873513 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

By the sounds of it Camberwell will have tons of cash to splash soon

Reply #873515 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Camberwell don't pay Rep players to play !

Reply #873521 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

If I was a player at Camberwell (BigV or VJBL) I would be seriously annoyed if my spot in a team was lost to someone coming over from Hawthorn. At lest the VJBL players are somewhat protected by the transfer rules but the Big V players aren't.

Reply #873524 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

VJBL rules only protects VJBL 3 and above. So most bottom aged players can move without restriction, and it should only affect 1s and perhaps 2s teams, limiting transfers to 2 per team. Try-outs at Camberwell, Bulleen, Blackburn etc may be interesting!

Reply #873532 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Well we'll see who plays for the love of the game at a Big V level and or how goes shopping around ?

Reply #873533 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Don't think hawthorn spent much this year on BigV.

And doubt Camberwell will be displacing loyal Camberwell kids for Hawthorn kids.

Wait and see

Reply #873537 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

*spent much on player payments this year*

Reply #873538 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Well a source inside Magic said they racked up $120K debt for Biv V , so funds are going somewhere for 4 teams

Reply #873545 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

$120K. Well over half that is the cost to just register 4 teams. Bet they didn't get any refunds from BV. Isn't this whole mess with domestic teams about refunds.

Reply #873549 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hearing there are a lot of Camberwell Big v players not happy about the influx coming from Hawthorn

Reply #873550 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Maybe they could go to Werribee , seeing junior Rep at Hawthorn has some Werribee paid kids playing , so the rumours say!

Reply #873559 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Director of Coaching is from Weribee and has brought in his relos to coach and their kids are playing at Magic. Not a great situation and has seen some Conflicts of interest arise.

Hawthorn don't require rep players to play domestic at HBA, so those whose clubs have moved to Camberwell can still play rep with Magic. Doubt many shift to Camberwell and doubt even more than any who do are from high teams.





Reply #873571 | Report this post


donotreach  
Two months ago

Big V costs, at last time I knew a YL team was at least $8K a season. I haven't been in those sort of meetings in a long time so that price could of gone up

Reply #873582 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Thought Rep was meant to be for local kid who play in local comp.. not for outer regional Melbourne ... long way to drive for training 2 times a week .. that Sunday early am would be a killer

Reply #873583 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hawthorn's best junior is from Casey....

If you don’t have to play domestic you play rep, says a lot about integrity

If you’re not having rep players play domestic, it’s also a bad model on how to run a sustainable club.

They’ve been too desperate to be a big dog, and have taken shortcuts that the big associations all do to be sustainable.

Sounds like Darebin all over again. Remember their rise and just as quick fall?

Reply #873584 | Report this post


donotreach  
Two months ago

Some would say still falling at Darebin, they now aren't even associated with the Ivanhoe Knights domestic and are out on their own.

Reply #873586 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Kids have been coming in to Magic from all over - Eltham, Dandenong, Tigers.

The issue I think is that becomes a really unpredictable environment for kids. You think you are at a certain level one year and then a new coach brings in a couple of kids with him and it's all turned upside down for the kids they displace. And that can happen year on year so you see some real slides.

Reply #873589 | Report this post


Turn it up  
Two months ago

Darebin lol

2 seasons in Big V. Compared to Hawthorn 25 years in Big V.

Reply #873605 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Who are Ivanhoe Knights?

Reply #873607 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Comparing their juniors and how quickly rose to top them how quickly they crashed

Reply #873608 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hawthorn have a group undermining the board. Some people are going to have to go.

Reply #873612 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

That's not great. AGM is typically in December, so could be interesting.

Reply #873628 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

HAWTHorn has been a mess since the former long term president was forced out around about about 9 years ago. I Also actually am not blaming the current management in the office for a lot of this as their hands have been tied or they have just recently been appointed to their positions too (eg: the ceo).

The change in board has this vision that the two arms of the HBA which were seperately managed (junior magic and then everything else such as domestic and big v) should be managed together. In fact this new board put both the unification of the program and financial mismanagement as the reasons for this takeover too. THey complained that junior magic was not getting adequately funded by the association and that the then general manager was being paid too much for his role, neither which were true.

AT the time of the takeover Hawthorn Basketball was very solvent and could consequently fund all aspects of its operations no issues. Junior magic which was also financially self sufficient still was able to fund its operations alone as at the time they were already paying big name coaches big $ to coach for them. The issue was Magic just wanted more $ from the association to pay for the program further. There was also a very large term deposit in the bank from funds raised around the time that Hawthorn was in negotiations for the new stadium.

Under the first board change, the financial changes started with a complete gutting of domestic costs. Referee pay was lowered, records were kept for things like the amount of pens used and the balls were so old that the teams complained consistently and used to bitch about not getting a new ball for the comps at least once a season. They also lost virtually all of their senior referees for their competitions too.

The association also went from paying one general manager a modest 6 figure salary at the low end of this range who ran pretty much all facets of the organisation with volunteer support to paying multiple people to do his job. Furthermore other significant changes were made to infrastructure used such as moving from a fairly low cost office to an office which was significantly more expensive. This actually increased their costs significantly. Furthermore money was being spent left right and centre on the various magic programs including getting imports and paying players - something which had never happened previously at Hawthorn even during their d1m championship year too.

Meanwhile fees were also going up well above inflation for both rep and domestic causing irritation and concern with members and even leading to some teams leaving. The size of the domestic junior comp had also slightly contracted too since the new board took over thanks to the ways which they chose to manage the competition.

There were also two further GM changes with the first one not having his contract of 6 months renewed and the second apparently resigning due to non compatibility with this board in terms of the way forward/way to get things done.

Fast forward and the new GM was appointed to the association who was simply very disliked by multiple stakholders. Significant tension arose between key groups such as the gm and referees and the gm and clubs due to the way things were handled including a termination of staff members who had great rapport and relationships with clubs.

During this time too there were also multiple changes to the board with the incumbent president who had been responsible for the take over quitting and his hand picked successor was appointed to the role. Really this was shortlived as through the changes to the constitution when the board voted on roles he was dumped and quit the board. The current president was appointed after this time that has been responsible for either continuing to see things through based on what the former board had implemented and also actually overseeing the changes/decisions made by office management which led to these issues now at Hawthorn.

Long story short there were three elements which were responsible for Hawthorn arriving where they are now

1. Seemingly spending excessively on unnecessary items.

2. Running domestic financials like a ponzi scheme where they were paying out half the venue booking fees at the start of the season and then not bothering to pay the second half fees until they got the next lot of seasons payments (thus always a half a season behind).

Hence when COVID hit they couldn't pay the half of the fees that they then owed.

3. The failure/unwillingness to refund money to clubs who had paid in advance for domestic seasons cancelled due to issues over lockdowns.

Literally the talk going around was that this cash was going to be used to fund their ongoing expenses as the debt had blown out thanks to the combination of excessive spending and also the financial mismanagement by the office staff/GM. Hence this is how Hawthorn got into such large debt.

This is all the while the association had still been paying for additional high profile coaches etc even though some might have said that they did not have the revenue/cash for these program moves.

It should be noted that the association also had to settle out of court with a former staff member relating to their dismissal.

Furthermore the board gave praise for the GM who was responsible for the mess both in the lead up to covid and during covid. This gave a lot of people an indication that the board may have been somewhat aware of what they were doing and also actually wanting to shore up/defend their position.

Finally for the association to claim that the clubs were happy with the financial position and the actions of the association going forward is actually false. From the outset when clubs first found out that the association refused to refund fees for cancelled seasons/unplayed games there were multiple complaints made by the clubs including to the regulatory bodies as well.

I could go on further about the things that have happened over the last 9 or so years at Hawthorn, however I think this tends to be sufficient insight into what has happened to date. FURTHERMORe this explains how Hawthorn has gone from a financially sound, growing and functional association to the mess it has reached now.

Reply #873631 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Just to respond to some of the comments from the latter part of this thread that are relevant:

1. The DOC OF camberwell girls is now Dimmattina who was working in the same role at Hawthorn. Hence I WOUld not at a ll be surprised if he had people come across with him to participate in the program.

2. Most of the Hawthorn Big V Players being paid left when they got told that they wouldn't be. By rights some of those getting paid also happened to have connections to the former board members who were on the board that first instigated this decision to pay players.

3. Ivanhoe Knights are a domestic club which play in the EDJBA. They are completely separate to the Ivanhoe DARebin basketball association which runs off of the old Darebin association.

4. The reason Hawthorn went downhill so quickly was that they tended to stop paying for things like venue hire and expenses like first aid equipment upfront to make sure the competitions were functional.

5. The new general manager of Hawthorn is not the problem and rather he has got to fix the mess.

Reply #873634 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Who is the new GM at Hawthorn?

Reply #873636 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Rumour has it AGM will be early this year

Reply #873640 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Who were previous Gm's
JG
BR
?

Reply #873643 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Current board members are listed on Hawthorns website , under contact us , at the bottom , all details are their if you would like to make direct contact and make your feeling and thoughts heard ! I am sure they would love to hear from you !

Reply #873653 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

No one worried one of those listed is new ceo of Ba?

Reply #873666 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Previous GMs were

GM

Board Change:

1. Dale Ryan (served 6 month contract then was apparently not rehired)

2. Sheena Aitken (Left having to deal with issues from the board)

3. Brock Rogers (oversaw the troubles that led to the current situation)

4. Jason Kelly (Started only a couple of months ago)

Reply #873673 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think the new BA CEO has since left the board of Hawthorn on taking that role. He'd have to have been there while all of this mess was going on though.

Reply #873676 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Yeah and I bet he had a kids in the program. Looks like it was his job to oversee the Junior rep program so all of that over payment to rep coaches and "poaching" players/coaches would have to have been on his watch right? Oh hang on there's no poaching in the VJBL right?

Reply #873686 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I don't know the situation at Hawthorn, but a general observation based on experiences at a few associations is that the kids of those people that are on boards or in TM roles tend to get v favourable treatment in terms of team selection, selection for State programs and awards at the association level. It’s a scratch my back / scratch your back scenario. In fact, I know people who actively seek those positions (often tiger mums) merely to promote their kid. It’s a sad reality, and little Johnny / Jenny all the while think they are winning those awards all on their ownsome!

This is not just a phenom in basketball - same in soccer football etc ...

Reply #873688 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Elitism at it'a worst , especially in a community space , so much for being a TRUE community not for profit basketball association ... someone needs to be accountable.. BV new about the issues Clubs we’re having and the Clubs were told it’s an association problem … mind blowing attitude

Reply #873689 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I don't have a good understanding of this situation,
Are hawthorn going bankrupr or do the have a bad administration or something else
what one is it.

Reply #873712 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It's both. They have a huge dept. Just lost their primary income source (huge domestic junior base) so could end up being in a position of trading while insolvent.

Reply #873715 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

hawthorn tragic back at it again

Reply #873717 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

They were already trading while insolvent before covid hit, just hiding it in the accounting process they were using . Have been for 5 years

Reply #873718 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

They hid accounting information relating to payouts when they had to pay out two former staff members as a result of them getting sued and subsequently settling because they refused to pay anything for clear legal breaches.

Basically one of those payouts was recorded as a loan and they never disclosed what it was for at the AGM even though that the question of what the loan was for was asked directly to the members present.

Reply #873765 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Seems they still plan to run domestic with the bobcats as a marque club? Fees are a little higher than your average not for profit club looking at their socials about it.

Reply #873768 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What are the costs with the Bobcats ?

Reply #873770 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The Bobcats are apparently also managed day to day by the now former operations manager. My question is whether they will still enter now he has left or not and whether he left on good terms.

Reply #873774 | Report this post


hoopie  
Two months ago

What I don't understand is why anyone would be so desperate to play - or so free with their money - that they'd pony up lots of $$ when they're not certain to play games and there are no refunds whenever games aren't played.

Reply #873777 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

$375 for 2/3 of a season, plus finals plus uniforms and one assumes the refund policy isnt flash because hawthorns isn't flash.

Reply #873778 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Flash , that's an understatement , Hawthorns refund policy is a grab for cash, talk about profiting off a pandemic , $240 K plus , so called community not for profit ... Load of BS , someone’s in fantasy land !!!!

Reply #873785 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Extract from the recent announcement by Basketball Hawthorn: " While we definitely want to see our domestic competition thrive, Hawthorn Magic's financial success is not dependent upon it."

Sounds like they’re all good without the breakaway teams.

Reply #873793 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

^^ sounds like more spin doctoring

Reply #873797 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

That's interest seeing venues are screaming for money that they owe , drip feeding payments over 3 years

Reply #873801 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

There is no way Hawthorn can claim continuing Magic will be feasible without domestic $ considering they run magic and the dmoestic parts together.

Not to mention that they owe somewhere around $900K too apparently

Reply #873808 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

Agree re unrealistic spin - obviously trying promote confidence and not scare people off.

I immediately thought of the positive BS Pyramid Building Society put out just before they bombed.

Reply #873809 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

why does everyone care so much if they want to make money. not every club has to be not for profit.

Reply #873818 | Report this post


Callisto 51  
Two months ago

Bobcats? The guy runs the club as a 'not for profit' but is on a hefty full time wage and then has a for-profit business that is connected to the so called ‘not for profit’... you connect the dots … Not the move if Hawthorn are looking for a financial revive

Reply #873819 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Agree for profit/not for profit doesn't matter. But don’t lie about it or be shady about it? Given the whole Hawthorn spin on being not for profit it is a little funny that the bobcats appear to be anything but in line with that.

Reply #873820 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Bobcats are a for profit club. I'd be worried getting in bed with them.

Reply #873822 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

^^ yep they're bagging the 'for profit’ they had who is all about the members & jumping in bed with this bloke who is all about the dollars. Good luck HBA

Reply #873826 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The attitude at Hawthorn has always been that Clubs members , who sign up to a Club , are actually Hawthorn members, NO the Clubs sign up to an Association to play in a competition on a seasonal basis, at the end of the season that transaction of competition is over till the Club opt in again OR NOT.

Hawthorn have always taken the stance that members money is theirs and they can spend it how they like .

Reply #873829 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

If you are a not for profit association in a community space , ACCOUNTABILITY, HONESTY, TRANSPARENCY Is key to build trust and integrity , Hawthorn has none of these key concept in their management process .. just arrogance, elitism at the helm of the Board (who are responsible) !

Reply #873830 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

This is boring now.

Reply #873839 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

More desperate attempts from Hawthorn at justifying financial mismanagement today with current email , that was meant for Magic players and went to everyone who has EVER players basketball there. That's how’s against your privacy policy of holding players details dor only 6 months . Oh and why is BV’s levy included in your refund pie chart , those funds go to BV for insurance , way to sque financial data in you favour ... More LIES, more MISINFORMATION , just total DESPERATION …. Move on this Crap is getting BORING

Reply #873850 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Reply #873882 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hard for clubs to keep going during these times, and the board member are volunteers, no doubt trying to do their best.

Reply #873906 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Interesting that Titans facebook would respond positively to the post by Camberwell Dragons try-outs, but nothing for Magics. Does that indicate that Titans are in fact suggesting people move to Camberwell Dragons?? Don't want to read too much into this but those sort of signals are interesting.

Reply #873913 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

^^ Titans correspondence this week was that members should play rep wherever it suits them. They are not about the rep space, they are focused on providing the highest quality domestic game that they can for their members. No hidden agenda, very refreshing really.

Reply #873916 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

If the association was for the community and not for the elite, the not for profits in particular would have had no reason to leave. That's if you believe that a club that is run for profit doesn’t want to see their community thrive too. The focus was wrong, and the clubs left because their community wasn’t important. It looks as simple as that.

And no, I have not read their constitution, and no I’m not about to. Treat people poorly, they leave. That’s the end of it.

Reply #873917 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"way to sque financial data in you favour ..." Way to have no one take you seriously. Not that we did anyway. Chelsea is very happy with this topic BTW.

Reply #873918 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I'm surprised this thread has lasted this long. But am quietly enjoying the broader basketball community letting hawthorn know what they have been saying behind their backs for years. Over paid staff? Poached juniors soon to go back to their own clubs? Under resourced and over priced domestic competition? Desperate to be in NBL1 for the status? It was all rumors and now it’s all in the open.

Reply #873920 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Seems it's all unraveling in Hawthorn?

Reply #873930 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I know of a Hawthorn mens player getting $500 a game under the table when the club was telling everyone that they were not paying player last year

Reply #873935 | Report this post


hoopie  
Two months ago

It's funny that the rot all started because the clubs felt that GMcD held too many responsibilities and this was a big mistake in terms of governance.
As well, his club supplied so many refs they had too much power over results, which they used really well in one season to get 15 out of their 16 teams (from memory) into GFs.

After giving him the push, HBA then moved to a bloated committee model, and around the same time - coincidentally? - the Magic program took off.

Reply #873940 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

This place sounds like a mess

Reply #873946 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Will BV intervene?

Reply #873947 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

If BV haven't intervened before, what makes you think they’d intervene now?

Public opinion, as expressed on Hoops? The exodus of some clubs?

The only reason they’d intervene is if the whole thing blows up in their faces in the media, or they stand to lose funding.

Reply #873951 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

GMcd was invested more than anyone in the current league admin space (outside maybe these clubs?). But that association was going to be in trouble tax wise regardless is what I'm told. Perhaps change was necessary, but seems a new management with that same drive is hard to come by.

Reply #873956 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The other mixed message in Hawthorns emails is that they refunded money ... NO .. Clubs held onto the 3rd instalment as they had serious issue with the Hawthorn grab for cash , let rip off members refund policy .. IF it wasn't for the Clubs and 8 months of battling over the refunds policy Members would have had nothing returned to them except coaching and training costs !!!

Let alone the justification they need to keep 62.5 % of members money to pay Admin costs

So much for community focus ..

Reply #873961 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

And so it continues.
*reaches for third box of popcorn

Reply #873978 | Report this post


donotreach  
Two months ago

To think I only asked the question on this thread because I have an interest in domestic basketball (EDJBA) and thought it was weird a big club like Titans would move on to CDBA .... the Pandora's box has been opened

Reply #874002 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The Magic club transformation took of prior to GMCD getting pushed out of the association. The first year the magic program succeeded at championship level was 2012.

Also the tax issue pretty much became a non event really. There was nothing said of it nor was there any issues relating to tax too once the new committee took over. One sees that as a pretty good smokescreen used by the new committee to try to claim misgovernance.

GMCD ran the Hawthorn Basketball Association seriously better than any of the subsequent committees or presidents.

Reply #874003 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

BV Now investigating!
Statement on their website. The "home and away" of domestic bball at the moment.

Reply #874012 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

That is good to hear - makes sense for BV to take a look and see if they can resolve matters. After all, focus should be on kids playing bball rather than all of this. Well done I say.

Reply #874016 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

They buckled under pressure from Hoops! We wait in hope of a sensible and financially sound resolution

Reply #874018 | Report this post


Anon  
Two months ago

You know what stop all the BS with too many VJBL clubs? 1 per LGA. Get rid of the rest

Reply #874019 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

So more desperation and spin tonight from Basketball Hawthorn , way to spin a statement from BV , that is investigating them , due to financial issue and not being fully honest in their position with BV .

No respect for members , no respect for due process !

Reply #874024 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

BV have listens to the masses on hoops!

Reply #874039 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Can't believe this has over 200 posts

Reply #874040 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

BA CEO gave the post re the investigation the thumbs up on Facebook, so I guess BA seem supportive of this investigation.

Reply #874045 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

Given that the BA CEO came from Basketball Hawthorn just recently, he'd want to get this sorted ASAP.

Reply #874047 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Is it appropriate for the BA CEO to wage in on domestic basketball affairs? Is he still listed as a board member there? I know he stood down but was still on the hawthorn website the other day.

Imagine justifying a $95 team sheet charge for weeks you have a bye. Or maybe only refunding 50% of that for games cancelled for Covid.

Then imagine your community being ok with that? Bet they wouldn't be...

Reply #874053 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

BA CEO has now removed his "thumbs-up" from the Basketball Hawthorn Facebook post re the investigation. Not sure what to read into any of that.

Reply #874069 | Report this post


Grassroots Guru  
Two months ago

He had no place engaging in it anyway.
Good call on his part as Hawthorn is making a bad situation worse for itself crying to BV after treating its members so badly. What a mess!

Reply #874070 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

If you are in a toxic, abusive and undermining relationship , you leave .

Clubs left BH due to ongoing frustration and arrogance from the Board , financial demands on members to pay a debt that wasn't incurred by them , then continued to profit thru the refund policy BH implemented to further prop up the Assoc. Before covid , there was NO refund policy .

Clubs followed BH constitution and BV constitution, as required. Relationship over. Plus Clubs opt in on a season basis, there is NO contractual obligations .

NOW more slander and defamation and lies.

This sort of behaviour warrants BH to have their licence pulled by BV.

No care for the community , no respect for families or player .

Move on .. Hawthorn your dumped !

Reply #874071 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

You would think Hawthorn having the BA CEO in their corner is going to make sure they get out of this ok

Reply #874075 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The BA CEO gets a corner?

Reply #874080 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

He's been backed into it LOL

Reply #874082 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The BV investigation should be squarely set on BH and their lies (6+ years of them). Last night's BH communication makes it looks as though BH instigated the BV investigation and is more spin. Hopefully BV uncover their financial mismanagement and drag them over the coals for it.

I have heard that multiple clubs have BV correspondence that encouraged them to look for another association if they didn't like BH's style/mess. Would love to see that hit the public domain...

Can't blame the clubs, sounds like they have been at this for a while and made the tough call to move on.

Clubs and members are over it. BH should crawl back under their rock and let clubs play where they want.

Reply #874097 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The above is interesting. If BV knew and supported the clubs leaving what's the expected outcome of their investigation???

Reply #874107 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

More hysteria from Hawthorn over night acting like a tabloid rag , oh wait a minute the Chair of the Board works for a large media org , that explains the management style /culture , NO care for facts, truth , respect or due diligence. Just attention seeking comments which are total fiction , only good enough to line your budgies cage ! What rot

Reply #874113 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What do they say , never let the TRUTH get in the way of a good story ....Shame Hawthorn Shame !

Reply #874134 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Shame on Hawthorn? Are you on drugs?

Camberwell out right poached domestic clubs, rep players and coaches to try and build their new competition.

Bv need to make an example of Camberwell.

Reply #874192 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Might need to check your facts...
Clubs wanted out and camberwell were the best option among others.
Hawthorn had their chances but arrogance and incompetence finished them.

BV should make an example of Hawthorn. Poor governance and financial compliance... they need to be held accountable...

Reply #874197 | Report this post


interested_baller  
Two months ago

I agree. Sounds like Camberwell did everyone a favour.

My question and I can't find the answer on this page is... How can BH have got so far into debt (I heard up to 900k) and no one is asking questions from a governing body?

I mean shouldn't BV be investigating this so called financial mis-management of a not-for-profit association?

Reply #874199 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

NO Club as poach, Camberwell have done nothing wrong, EVERYTHING RIGHT by the Clubs, by the community and by it's families and players.

Clubs are free do enter into ANY association competition, it's a seasonal opt in model, ALWAYS has been with BH , NOTHING has ever been signed!!!!

BV statement on Friday confirmed support "Clubs freedom of associations"

The Clubs have been in discussion and constant frustration with BH board for more than 2 years, the arrogance and Magic centric focus AT ALL COSTS, doesn't matter who pays for it (DOMESTIC) - total BLOATED EGO.

Countless meetings, zooms and 100's hours of volunteers time , to get domestic members a better deal , a fair cop, an even playing field. Seems no mercy rule applies when it comes to Hawthorn and the ripping off of funds from it cash cow.

Clubs warned BH on many occasions, Board thought it was a joke "go ahead - leave" thinking other options were not out there! So due process has been followed, notice served - notice acknowledged and received - ISSUE OVER

Reply #874202 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

#192 you obviously don't have a clue about what happened. If you want to believe BH spin then that’s fine, but if you were involved then you’d know the facts and you’d stop your bs.

Reply #874204 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hopefully whatever investigation is undertaken is done promptly, because it's all about (or should be all about) getting the kids back out there playing.

Reply #874208 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Poached? That's a stretch.
Literally laughing out loud.

Reply #874213 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Not sure the investigation stops the members registering where ever they want and Camberwell and hawthorn going about their business? Only communication that implies any need to pause reengagement is the ridiculous email/socials update from Hawthorn itself. Creating doubt and actively attempting to impact participation?! Good grief! Surely someone is ashamed of those emails? Safe bet the current GM isn't at fault here. Didn’t he only get there a few months ago?

Reply #874217 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Interesting that prior comms from Hawthorn had the GM name on it , the fabrication of lies and spinning of BV statement from Hawthorn on Friday night , had from them 'Board'... new GM has more credibility / honesty to put his name to a false statement .

One could assume that the Board could have employed him as a scape goat , just more shame and mistreatments of some staff and the community !

Reply #874219 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Rumour has it , that the Chair of the Board , stood in a meeting with Clubs spruiking that they were surrounded by brilliance (referring to other board members).

Such brilliancy that has resulted to running an association into the ground and being totally detached from reality and purpose of the the association in the first place . PLAYING BASKETBALL

Sorry .. games over !

Reply #874222 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

So Hawthorns brand was already tarnished with all the gossip and financial concerns, but the email on Friday that total misrepresent the sentiment from BV statement , has just smeared that brand in a thick layer of crap! Oh and there is no way you can turn it into Nutella.

And man it stinks .....

Reply #874224 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

A real shame for Hawthorn Magic should they have to fold.

Reply #874226 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

No idea about the rights and wrongs here but the idea of Hawthorn being aggrieved by "poaching"...…I'm sure a few other associations would be saying something about pot….kettle…black.

Reply #874236 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Maybe Hawthorn should try and run another GoFundMe page called We'll Stop the Rot", thinks families would be happy to pay them to STOP sending out long winded emailed ...

Reply #874246 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The loyalty to magic will be tested for all this for local kids and otherwise.

Reply #874251 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

^ kids will want to play for Magic - it's got a really good name amongst the kids. Parents may of course have different views, but it would be hard to move.

Reply #874254 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I hope the kids stay and play there.... Local kids particularly.

Reply #874255 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The Hawthorn board of management sucks ass especially with the way they have handled heaps of things. They're totally responsible for the issues that the club has and have been happily funnelling $ into the Magic part which has been both excessive and outside their means. Apparently they asked their referees to pay $20 towards their development due to having insufficient funds while paying coaches still for the upcoming rep season.

Reply #874272 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Who ran a gofundme page?

Reply #874294 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Is that even legal fir a club to do when they are trying to make a profit?

Reply #874295 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hawthorn Basketball ran one at the start of the pandemic last year.

Reply #874301 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Clubs have NEVER run a GoFundMe page !

It was Hawthorn Basketball!

Reply #874311 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

How much in debt are they?

Reply #874322 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It was hundreds of thousands of dollars at the start of the pandemic.

Reply #874326 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What was it spent on?

Reply #874356 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Who do they owe?

Reply #874357 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Stadiums? Uniform suppliers? Surely not staff?!

Reply #874362 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

They got told to bugger off by one venue a few years ago that they had been using for years and regularly because they apparently owed them $150,000 in hire

Reply #874370 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Basically they owe everyone , venues , ATO , BV, not sure about staff entitlements. Spent an enormous amount on Magic uniforms $150K but no buyers for them and some needed to be written of as it had old sponsorship on it. The rebranding and marketing of Magic has cost a fortune and the rest on Big V $180K per year loss.

Had a big picture strategy , but no means but domestic to funds it . Cash cow has walked .. time to wake up to reality!

Reply #874374 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

IF I was a supplier , I would be going to a lawyer or debt collector VERY quickly!

Reply #874375 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Some are before the chance of claiming money goes

Reply #874383 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Not good for Hawthorn, more Clubs have left ..... and then their we're NONE

Reply #874406 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Just saw that the Richmond club is out. Do they hve any clubs left?

Reply #874408 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Where did they go?

Reply #874417 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

All to Camberwell I assume?

Reply #874421 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Or EDJBA always an option

Reply #874422 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Maybe the head of Basketball at Hawthorn can bring some more relos from Werribee to play in a team against the Peninsular Bobcats team ..

Reply #874423 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Basketball in Hawthorn will survive. But maybe a less than graceful step down from the community built throne will come with some lessons on how to treat people and manage money?

Reply #874439 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Why has a team from the Peninsula go to Hawthorn?

Reply #874445 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

So seems like the former staff member of hawthorn jason weidemann is working for the organisation sports administration services which handles the bobcats management amongst other things too.

I wonder whether Jason's links to Hawthorn as the former operations manager are what was the reason that they ended up entering their club/teams in Hawthorn's domestic competition?

Ironic that Hawthorn did not think that their little lie about these for profit clubs being a problem with basketball at Hawthorn wouldn't be exposed either hahahahahahahahaha.

Have no idea why Jason Weidemann left Hawthorn too.

Reply #874446 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Jason left Hawthorn due to ongoing issues with micro managing from the Board, who thought they new best. Jason was all for streamlining the programs and making Big V a self funding program , but Board would not divert from Strategic Plan, "win at all costs" . The mental health strain this board has put on staff has been enormous - pushing a plan that staff don't align with morally or on a personal value basis.

You don't rip your community off!

Reply #874451 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

This makes much more sense. Seems that the toxic element in this has been the board and not the staff (aside from the former general manager and the issues around payment of fees for venues)

Reply #874452 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

Which is what drove the clubs to leave ...

Reply #874454 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The staff have had it tough, they should be commended for keep fronting up, the Venues and suppliers are also hurting, they need their money and some of these debts go back before COVID and now will be drip fed for another 2 years.

The new GM , has been treated as a buffer for the Board, and due to the Boards total arrogance and inability to pivot business strategy and mindset, has left the organisation doomed to failure , as domestic are tired of being used and of the ongoing battle, to ensure the community and grass roots basketball gets a fair crack!

Reply #874457 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It's a colossal mess and it looks like that board has spent a long time bullying their way through to get what they want. Surely enough is enough on this one?!

Reply #874501 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

This thread is a saga indeed. Hard to know where the reality is. Would be interesting to read any investigation by BV in due course, if they release that. Think they need to say something, and hopefully soon. Who would be a member of a board at an association ??!

Reply #874513 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

This thread is a saga indeed. Hard to know where the reality is. Would be interesting to read any investigation by BV in due course, if they release that. Think they need to say something, and hopefully soon. Who would be a member of a board at an association ??!

Reply #874514 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

BVs investigation appears to be into the association itself. Their statement on the issues seems vague and almost forced. Like they felt they didn't have a choice but to comment publicly. They Certainly don’t seem keen to step in on association matters at all, but perhaps this is a reminder that maybe they should do some health checks. Prevention rather than waiting for the bomb to go off.

Reply #874522 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The board seems to have tried to strong arm through all this. Not a great leadership style in a community level association. If the debt was made public at the start of the pandemic it's safe to say that the clubs have tried to make this work before almost being forced out. People always have options and treating the people you NEED poorly isn’t exactly a great retention strategy. Exhibit A: Hawthorn Basketball

Reply #874523 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

BV certainly should be providing guidance and undertaking health checks on associations. Surely they provide base level training and support on governance and financial management? If not, then they are sleepwalking into problems.

Reply #874524 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

in this thread everyone is basically saying the same thing over and over again.

Reply #874525 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I thought associations had to report to basketball Victoria? Sounds like this financial hole was going to be hard to miss? Unless reporting doesn't actually happen or the reporting isn’t accurate? Hawthorns spending isn’t a secret and their high fees are not a secret either. But I’m sure nobody anticipated this fall.

Reply #874526 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Agree! This goes around in circles. Time for BV to say something other than 'we should probably look at how this happened'.

Reply #874528 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

in this thread everyone is basically saying the same thing over and over again.

Reply #874533 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It seems BV report to Hawthorn.

Hawthorn some how have a heap of pull.

Reply #874534 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

ah yes a heap of pull

Reply #874537 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Would hope that BV will be transparent!

Alot of volunteers donate 1000's of hours to keep Clubs running and kids on court and do their financial due diligence , as they are operating in a community space.

Hawthorn and BV should be do their!!

If BV have any creditability, is shouldn't matter that the CEO of BA , who was the Chair of Magic, should hold no sway!

But then again , it might just come down to EGO and Image - NOT TRUETH and FACTS

Reply #874551 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

So there is an investigation statement from BV, and then?? Hawthorn made out like all members should wait for the outcome.

Surely that isn't helping get kids back on court if the outcome of how Hawthorn mismanaged their community and finance so badly is going to take longer than a week?

You have got to be feeling for those local kids trying to get back out there. Is there no update at all?

Reply #874809 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

I cannot see how BV can come out of this with anything positive from their POV.

Either
- they agree that they were asleep at the wheel, or
- they knew about the financial and club issues but did not act or were happy to let HBA carry on without intervention, or
- they have no powers to intervene, in which case this could happen to more clubs.

Reply #874823 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Standard compliance of BV constitution for Associations for Membership

6.2 (e) Compliance of member associations

provide BV with copies of its annual financial statements and annual
report and other associated documents including but not only evidence
of its incorporated status, details of its officer bearers and its
membership data within 30 days of the Member Association's annual
general meeting;

So if Hawthorn had been submitting financials BV should be all over it , then again Treasure admitted they hadn't done in 4 years and was unaware they needed to!

Reply #874831 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

^^ hoopie^^
I agree... none of those options look good for BV.
- asleep. Could be true, but won't admit it.
- knew and did nothing. That’s not a good look (embarrassed in front of their friends).
- pass the buck. At least it’s not admitting it’s their fault! so I think it will be the option 3

Clubs leaving isn’t good for anyone including the clubs themselves. I’m sure it’s a big task.

It appears clear though that the issue here was big enough that BV should have acted and didn’t.

Reply #874840 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

When Clubs ask for help from BV and got told it's an association issue and wash there hands if it , what else is there to do!

Can’t work with a Tragic centric board , who are more than fine for other to pay for a program aimed at a few.

Clubs looking out for players and families has been key through this whole process , time to move .. not like BV and the Board hadn’t told Clubs that if they don’t like it .. then leave !

End of story

Reply #874906 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

No outcome on the investigation yet?

Reply #874911 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Expect Magic players may head to Tigers. They don't require you to play domestic, and they are in need of some good players.

Reply #874912 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Aren't there question marks surrounding Tiger’s atm too? Possibly losing MSAC?

Reply #874913 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think melbourne are in a hot mess of their own.

Reply #874916 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

They are reducing teams because of court availability. BV now running MSAC bookings.

Reply #874918 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I have NFI about Hawthorn and it's clearly a mess but having just stuck my head in here I was aware of a FB post from one of the great Tigers people who posted on FB that the Tigers are in a mess and L Gaze and co were extremely concerned about the future of the TIGERS. Can't add anymore to that because the original post was deleted by the OP.

Reply #874928 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I saw that post before it was deleted too. Until I saw it, I didn't know melbourne were in any trouble. Basketball Victoria obviously have their hands full making sure basketball survives in those two areas.

Reply #874929 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What did it say exactly? Interesting watching ex-tigers juniors popping up at different clubs in VC.

Reply #874930 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The post from a very respected Tigers person talked about the demise of Lindsay Gaze's Tigers.

Reply #874931 | Report this post


Luke Bent  
Two months ago

In the interests of all the kids who play, parents, coaches, volunteers and basketball faithful it's time that a clear and decisive answer and explanation as to how Basketball Hawthorn is going to move ahead .
If and I ask "if" a domestic comp is going to happen when they have stated it will start this year, how?
A Rep season is just around the corner, is it going to happen ? Everyone is expect an answer to many many questions. I as a parent are not completely comfortable about putting forward a registration and paying a fee to something I’m not sure is going to happen? My child wants to play, do I put in a request to train elsewhere ? Or take the chance on missing yet another season .
Come on BH. Give us something other than b/s .
It’s 8 weeks to Christmas and at this stage we are three weeks away from anything other than training/tryouts . Give us a direction.

Reply #874935 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

There are no domestic teams left at Hawthorn , Bobcats have also withdrawn . BV are still investigating into issues at Hawthorn .

Hawthorn should be rebuilding Magic junior and Senior domestic comp and stop the shape shifting and blame.

Reply #874936 | Report this post


I stand with Luke  
Two months ago

I agree Luke.
Time to give us the straight shooting answer.
No stone throwing.
No finger pointing.
We just want the kids to play.
So tell us where we are at so that our kids don't miss out (this time avoidably).
Is Hawthorn Magic going ahead or not?
The domestic teams are gone. Forget about that.
What about the rep program? Gone too? And if not, what will it cost?

Reply #874937 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What's Melbourne got to do with this. Don’t drag other clubs into this mess

Reply #874945 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Mess is an understatement btw

Reply #874946 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Why does Melbourne get dragged into everything?

Reply #874948 | Report this post


Giacontigers  
Two months ago

People really seem to like Hawthorn Magic..

Reply #874950 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think this was RMITs fault.

Reply #874955 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Are people still even following this mess?

Reply #874956 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

As someone linked to hawthorn magic, I'm following it!

Reply #874959 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

As someone linked to hawthorn magic, I'm following it!

Reply #874960 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Congrats on the triple ton. Will this get to 400?

Reply #874961 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The damage this has done to their brand is massive. Will be a long time before people trust them as a club again.

Might take years to recover.

Reply #874971 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Plus COVID impact

Reply #874972 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Two months ago

It is my understanding that most basketball associations are incorporated entities.

Might be time for a few folks to read up on their duties if they join a basketball club/association board.

A company is insolvent when it cannot pay its debts when they are due. There are serious penalties for allowing your company to trade while insolvent. You should consult a registered liquidator, appropriately qualified specialist insolvency accountant or lawyer, or financial advice service about your company's financial situation as soon as you suspect your company cannot pay debts when they are due.

Who is a director?
A director is not just a person appointed to that role. Under the Corporations Act 2001 (Corporations Act), a person may also be a director if they are not formally appointed but act in that role, or if the company's directors act in accordance with that person's instructions or wishes.

Directors’ duties
Your primary duty is to the company's shareholders. You are also required to comply with general and specific laws applying to your company’s operations. However, if your company is insolvent, or there is a real risk of insolvency, your duties expand to include creditors (including employees with outstanding entitlements).

General duties
The Corporations Act imposes general duties on directors and officers of companies, including the duty:

to exercise your powers and duties with the care and diligence a reasonable person would have, including taking steps to ensure you are properly informed about the company's financial position and the company doesn’t trade if it is insolvent
to exercise your powers and duties in good faith in the company's best interests and for a proper purpose
not to improperly use your position to gain an advantage for yourself or someone else, or to cause detriment to the company
not to improperly use information obtained through your position to gain an advantage for yourself or someone else, or to cause detriment to the company.

If dishonesty or recklessness is found to be a factor in your breach of general duties, the breach can be a criminal offence and substantial criminal penalties can apply, including up to 15 years' imprisonment

Reply #874975 | Report this post


Luke  
Two months ago

Very quiet on the eastern front ?
No updates
No season info
No try out dates and times
No news is good news ? Not so sure about that !

Reply #875045 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I hear something is brewing...

Watch this space.

Reply #875055 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Luke,
what do you mean by that

Reply #875057 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

are you talking about nunawading

Reply #875058 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Plenty of disenchanted Hawthorn (and Melbourne) players at Nunawading's non-compulsory outdoor pre-tryouts on Sunday.

Reply #875059 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Two months ago

I wonder if all those supposed Hawthorne and Melbourne kids that were at Nunawading training had the appropriate permission to train releases.

My understanding is the club can be fined if they allow people to train who do not have clearances or a permission to train.

Reply #875074 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

Given the massive debts they're struggling to service, I can’t see them being too bothered by a few fines.

Reply #875075 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Nunawading does not let kids participate from other clubs without a permission to train.

Reply #875078 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hawthorn has announced try out dates, which is clear intention.

Reply #875086 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

And they're inviting registrations from domestic teams for a 6 week mini tournament

Reply #875088 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Strange how Hawthorn can now do basketball at a reason price, yet it too Clubs to move for Hawthorn to be competitive ... or is that desperate … will not be sustainable with the debt and massive overheads they have.

Then again Hawthorn have stated they don't need a domestic comp to be financially viable . If that’s so stop the misinformation and confusing members .

Reply #875089 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

So if the grab for cash "cheaper than cheap" comp doesn't get off the ground, do teams get their money back, can't see anything about refund if comp is cancelled.

Or is that just another donation players are unaware they have made to the debt level

Reply #875097 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Valid comp or just further desperation !

So a team sheet last season was $95, now they have dropped it to $70 , so that means they have been ripping members off $375 per team for years . Last season alone $70 x 15 rounds x say 500 teams in domestic junior - $191K per season, that's $382500 per year.

And that is without a money grabbing refund policy!

No wonder Clubs have left!

Reply #875098 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

So much for being a not for profit community association !

At least the for profit Clubs in the comp deliver on promises, service and experience!

I'd stop throwing stones and have a good look internally , as that glass house / ceiling Hawthorn have created is about to implode!

And no band aid or glue stick is going to keep that hot mess together!

Reply #875099 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"So a team sheet last season was $95, now they have dropped it to $70 "

So what were they doing with the extra $50 per game?

Reply #875100 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

How much extra would that of added up to over a week? a season? a year?

Reply #875105 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Have they given any explanation for this?

Reply #875114 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It's laughable really.
$50 to register a team
$25 to register a player. Detail not included in advert but it’s on the first page when you register a team.
$70 per team sheet
$0.50x 8 for the hawthorn levy per player

Assuming 7 players in your team
$100 team sheets.

8 players?
$104 team sheets.

No coach, no training, no support.

Reply #875116 | Report this post


Baller65  
Two months ago

It actually costs more than before, they are just wrapping it to look cheaper!

Reply #875117 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What is the "$0.50x 8 for the hawthorn levy per player"

Reply #875122 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I can say with 100% certainty, despite the denials above, there are lots of Hawthorn rep players (high teams) registered to try out elsewhere. The permission to trains will come through thick and fast next week.

Reply #875124 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The $.50 per game per player is a fee Hawthorn introduced to pay off the debit.

Magic players pay an additional $1 per game

Snr Domestic additional $1 per game as well

This has been going for a year , then the added funds they collected through a refund policy that kept 100% of 2 rounds lost due to covid and 50% of every round after that!

If it wasn't for the Clubs refusing to pay the final 5 rounds instalment , nothing would have been handed bank to members

Reply #875130 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

$50 will go to so called Admin costs

Over a year that alone is an additional $382K getting sucked out of Jnr Domestic

And still they have financial issues!

Reply #875131 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Literally laughing out loud at how poorly Hawthorn have managed their general membership here!
Over charge and under deliver. Then, to complete the package, blame the people that do all the work for you when it goes wrong!

Reply #875132 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

If it wasn't kids basketball , you'd think it was a pyramid scheme

Reply #875138 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

I reckon Relax Coach hit the nail on the head earlier.

All those clever people in the HBA probably thought it was too big to (be allowed to) fail.

Reply #875139 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The real question is WHY BV have done nothing about Hawthorn when supposedly been trading for years as insolvent , Clubs reach out for help and shut them down with a "it's an association issue".

Maybe BV need to be investigated ? Do they check the financials of the association members each year to see if they are viable ?????? Or that they have been lodged as required ... don't thing so.

BV is the Titanic and Hawthorn is that bloody Iceberg that everyone kept warning them of ..... don't think Rose is going to be singing on this ship!!

Reply #875140 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

WOW

Reply #875143 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I'd be staying well clear of anything to do with that sort of financial model

Reply #875144 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

If BV gets any government funding for promoting the sport, but allowed the Hawthorn fiasco to go on for so long, then there should be some very nervous people in BV

Reply #875155 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Really? Why?

Reply #875156 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Two months ago

Do you think the government would be happy to give money to any sports governing body which isn't doing its job in terms of governance and protecting its stakeholders (the parents and kids)? If there’s a bit of a bad smell around the game - or BV - then I’d expect there to be some in the government who’d be wanting to distance themselves from it. Given how much more power and lobbying comes from AFL, soccer, cricket, etc, bb has to fight hard for every $ and cannot afford to risk losing any funding it gets.

Maybe I’m being a bit pessimistic here, but given the way the AFL and its sycophantic media loves to put the boot into basketball, I can see this thing going beyond just the Hoops readership at some stage.

Reply #875159 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Think you're over playing this a bit. Plenty of businesses, big and small, have been thrown about by Covid and it’s exposed business risks that were not thought significant. 20/20 is a wonderful thing, and the world ain’t perfect. Doubt government policy makers are going to penalise a sport foe this. Mountain out of a molehill. Good lessons, but not as big an issue to warrant the sport being stripped of funds, IMO. Also doubt any media would pick this up - just not that big in the grand scheme of things Hoopie.

Reply #875166 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hawthorn were not thrown about by Covid... they were exposed by it

Reply #875180 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Reckon they just got hit by an unexpected and big event, which identified an underlying business risk that would never have been an issue. Easy to look at this without context.

Reply #875183 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hundreds of thousands of debt and they didn't know?

The GM at the time was paid to know. COVID is not an excuse for that level of mismanagement.

Reply #875189 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Incorrect accounting practices and hiding expenses in other areas and moving money around to cover a gaping financial whole called Big V and ripping funds out of domestic , has nothing to do with covid .

You can't blame covid , for financial mismanagement and negligence. No due diligence has been upheld by the board , just an attitude to grow Magic to lofty heights and bugger the rest of it ! Great Strategic plan and pathway . Please !

Reply #875191 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Imagine being such a mess that you thought your best shot at survival was a public hanging of the people who served your association the longest.

Almost as embarrassing as leading the association into serious debt and trying to hide over charging your own community to resolve it.

Reply #875194 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Just more blame shifting , no care, no responsibility!

Reply #875196 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Imagine hiring a new GM and using him to deal with the fall out and damage the Board have created with the Clubs and the members and not being honest with what has occurred or what the GM has signed up to , would assume there are legal issues that have been breached under employment law and fair work here too !

Reply #875198 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The new GM is hopefully looking into all that.

Reply #875200 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Annon please explain this?

"Imagine being such a mess that you thought your best shot at survival was a public hanging of the people who served your association the longest."

Has something happened that we don't know about?

Reply #875205 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

They have actively attacked the volunteers at our NFP club implying that their actions are against the community's best interests. Our committee have worked tirelessly through this pandemic and certainly don’t deserve any of this bad press.

The first our committee heard of any investigation was via a press release from Basketball Victoria.

Reply #875211 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Further to that they have aired this issue with the past 7 or 8 years of members. Which is a breach of their own privacy policy.

Reply #875212 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hardly a big issue. Sending an email.

Reply #875213 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Diminishing the confidence of the community is a big deal.

Reply #875216 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Doubt many people would care about that.

Reply #875219 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The people giving up their time for their local community certainly do.

Reply #875220 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

So am I understanding correctly that the HBA domestic comp has completely collapsed? I.e there is no domestic comp this year?

If so, this makes them another version of Melbourne Tigers in that they are a rep club without an association. Tough gig.

That said....given the debt we know they have, how do you still run Magic and service the debt when you have lost all domestic revenue? Bit of a mystery.
Rep Kids will stick with Magic I would think - the brand has a lot of cache…..but how long is it viable to operate this way???

Reply #875224 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think they need to completely re brand and get away from these troubled years as the reputation will stick for a long time!

Reply #875225 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Worked for Casey / Cranbourne

Reply #875226 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Kids will definitely want to continue with Magics. Does have a lot of cache amongst the kids.

Reply #875229 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think some kids are over the politics of who makes what team

Reply #875234 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Lots of disenchanted Magic players trying out elsewhere.

They talk of the Great Covid Resignation, we could see a Mass Magic Exodus.

Reply #875235 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Wouldn't there be an issue of solvency? No longer any income but still a big debt to service.

Reply #875236 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Isn't there a restriction on how many can join a club?

Imagine most kids will want to stay with Magic. Been a good club to develop players.

Reply #875238 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

There are rules around how many 'import' players transferring from one club to another can suit up per team at their new club. Max 2 players per team max, but this changes if there are additional new teams added at the new destination club that they did not have the year before. i.e. destination club had 3 teams but now have enough players for 4 teams in 2022. Hence team 4 can have more 'imports' if that the max 2.

Reply #875239 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Plenty of kids just not wanting to play as well

Reply #875240 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Yep, drop off in rep will happen. Happened a bit last year, but this year will be bigger.

Reply #875241 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Yep, drop off in rep will happen. Happened a bit last year, but this year will be bigger.

Reply #875242 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Kids are not the one paying the bills , it is the parents of these Rep kids who have also had a gut full of paying overs and getting very little in return , in way of refunds, or credit carried forward.

Reply #875246 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Agree kids want to play ball, but at want point do you stop throwing money at an association that has such little regard for community and families.

Might have had great Cache as you say , but no amount of disinfectant and sanitiser is going to get rid of the stench and mess that has been created!

Reply #875247 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Wonder how many coaches will remain in Magic if the funds have dried up?

Have always paid astronomical amounts to some coaches, so much for the love of the game and passing on knowledge and developing skill.

This leave a real bad taste ....

Reply #875248 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Under privacy policy it is an issue to retain a data base that is more than 6 months old, breach of Hawthorns own policies and constitution.

The concept someone hasn't played at Hawthorn for 10 years is getting information is against the Privacy act 1988 , should be reported to OAIC and FTC - Federal Trade Commission

Reply #875250 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Who is getting what information and from where?

Reply #875254 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Who is getting what information and from where?

Reply #875255 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Who is getting what information and from where?

Reply #875256 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Is there some where this information is publicly, lots of people seem to know a lot of confidential information.

Reply #875257 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hawthorns privacy policy is on there website , so are the financials, auditors report and constitution, refund policy has been blocked

Maybe have a read and see what is going on

Reply #875261 | Report this post


benched  
Two months ago

I don't besmirch coaches who were being paid just money for their expertise and shouldn't be cast away like the board if they chose not to return, there are some coaches who coach to put money on the family table and if Hawthorn was prepared to fund that, they should take it. It's hard enough in VJBL where parents want top class coaching for peanut pay at the top level.

Reply #875264 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

You don't need to be a brain surgeon to read between the lines of the financial reports and the tabloid spin and guff that has been put out there by Hawthorn

Reply #875265 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Not a lot of confidential information here, it's all in their press releases and financials online. I believe members are entitled to all financial information from the league upon request.

Reply #875266 | Report this post


Baller65  
Two months ago

Are Hawthorn trading insolvent? It looks from discussion above as if they were before COVID hit anyway? I wonder if anyone pointed that out before the COVID pressure cooker and if they did, why didn't something get done then?

Reply #875269 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Clubs have been calling out the financial issue at Hawthorn for years and trying to get the Board to address the spending and programs that have got them into this mess.

The Board has always taken the stance that it is their duty to run Hawthorn , not the Clubs. But it is domestic that seems to get hit with the increase in playing fees for the financial mismanagement.

I think after nearly 4 years , the Board had more than enough time to address issue, COVID has nothing to do with the level of debt , it just stopped play for a bit and the direct financial secret came to the surface.

Oh and members implored Clubs for a better solution for kids to play basketball!

Reply #875271 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Feel sorry for the new GM. Walked into an absolute mess.

Reply #875277 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Two months ago

I'm sure I have covered this before. The board members should be accountable for what happens on their watch.

But to do this the members need to be involved. They need to attend meetings, annual general meetings, and extraordinary meetings. And they most definitely should be asking questions of their board members.

The key is whether or not fee-paying players and or fee-paying parents of players are members. Unfortunately, in some associations, they are not. eg hawthorn

This means the club/association can be run by a small group with potentially vested interests and not in the interest of the fee-paying members.

If you are not sure if you are a member then read the club/association constitution, sometimes referred to as the articles of association.

If you don't have voting rights you can't affect change.

Reply #875279 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Baller65 do you know something we dont.

"Are Hawthorn trading insolvent?"

News to me. Sure Basketball Victoria would have been across it.

Reply #875280 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Baller65 do you know something we dont.

"Are Hawthorn trading insolvent?"

News to me. Sure Basketball Victoria would have been across it.

Reply #875281 | Report this post


Baller65  
Two months ago

Nope. Was a genuine question.

Are they and were they pre Covid?

If they were, did BV know? If BV knew and did nothing, goodness. But as you say, surely not.

Reply #875290 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Seriously is it that hard to comprehend, how do you come up with a historical $800-900 K debt as soon as COVID hits.

And make a desperate move of running a Go Fund Me Page - Keep the lights on at Hawthorn

If your not in trouble .. why the need to have a 3-4 financial plan to pay off debt

Reply #875292 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I don't have an issue with Coaches getting paid , I do have an issue for other programs and players being charged a higher rate in order for that coach to be paid.

If Magic wants to pay coaches at a certain level that's fine , but it needs to be charged and expensed through the Magic program , not DOMESTIC.

Needs to be self funding

Reply #875293 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I get the feeling it's the same person posting over and over again on here. It’s just so repetitive.

Reply #875311 | Report this post


Baller65  
Two months ago

Maybe so?

Reply #875314 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

This has been a long thread that's for sure!
Hawthorn should probably consider slipping into the shadows. Quietly.

Reply #875327 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

curious as too what sort of $$$'s rep coaches are/were getting paid for a season.

Reply #875345 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The coach pay certainly has a lot of BS attached to it around the traps I'm sure. But I know it was 10k for a while there. Could be more or less than that now?
Whoever mentioned before I agree with: pay your coaches well! That’s great! But make sure the people getting that coaching are the ones paying for it. Coaches give a lot and go through a lot often for peanuts. So I wouldn’t be mad that the coaches get paid assuming the club can afford it!

Reply #875348 | Report this post


Anon  
Two months ago

10k? Surely that's not right with people saying $850 for the season per player. Was $2k for 1’s, $800 for other teams and $400 for ass. coach where I was about 6-7 years ago

Reply #875350 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Anyone know what the try out numbers are like at Magics. Assume they are still pretty good.

Reply #875352 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It was 10k for the 1's coaches. Closest to that was Sabres with $3k for 1’s coaches. Most get nothing or petrol money

Reply #875353 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It was definitely 10k for the big names. My friend took one of those roles for a year and they had hardly ever coached before! That was 10 years ago, maybe more?

Reply #875354 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Nothing wrong with paying coaches. They put in a hell of a lot of time and effort. This isn't like local footy where the parents pretend to coach.

Reply #875356 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

A number of rep clubs coaches are 100% volunteers

Reply #875357 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What is happening with Hawthorn's senior teams?

Reply #875359 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Will Hawthorn be around in 12 months? or should they merge with Camberwell? What do people think will happen?

Reply #875370 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Will Hawthorn be around in 12 months? or should they merge with Camberwell? What do people think will happen?

Reply #875371 | Report this post


BB  
Two months ago

Why would Camberwell want to merge with Hawthorn at this stage? Nobody would be silly enough to take on that debt.

Reply #875373 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Camberwell Magic Dragons. Works well.

Reply #875374 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

No one has actually said how much the debt actually is...

Just merge the two. I'm sure BV will figure it out for them.

Reply #875375 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Is this the most responses on a thread?

Reply #875376 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Camberwell won't agree to a merger so it doesn't matter.

Reply #875378 | Report this post


Anon  
Two months ago

There should be only 1 association per LGA. We would get rid of Chelsea, Keyborough, Westgate, Camberwell. It's supposed to be rep ball. Representative of your local area.

Reply #875380 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Why would Camberwell even want to work with Hawthorn, after Hawthorn have thrown them under the bus, caused an investigation by BV, all because Clubs wanted a better comp to play in.

Why would you take on Hawthorns debt. The Debt is Hawthorn's responsibility and BV if anyone should be cleaning it up!

Nor would Camberwell's volunteer model suit Magic - one is community based, the other is a revenue model for some players and coaches at Magic.


Reply #875382 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

One association per LGA and you're proposing to get rid of the volunteer one in Boroondara and keep the one riddled with mountains of debt known to overcharge and extort to play there?

Reply #875383 | Report this post


Anon  
Two months ago

We are talking about Rep ball. Hawthorn has done more for Vic Metro than Camberwell. What is the aim of the VJBL? To provide a pathway for junior basketballers to the National Teams.

Reply #875386 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The VJBLs sole purpose is to provide a pathway for National teams? That's a lot of under achievement out there.

That said, Hawthorn’s rep level product has been pretty solid over the years performance wise. Paying coaches? Whatever, do what you want. My personal view is that coaches deserve a LOT more than they get from their clubs. But the user needs to pay for that. That’s not what was happening at Hawthorn in recent years and it seems that they couldn’t afford a lot of the things they we’re driving.

Reply #875390 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

So basically has hawthorn been a pyramid scheme??!!

Reply #875391 | Report this post


Isaac  
Two months ago

Is this the most responses on a thread?
It's at 412 replies now. The top thread by replies has 2,200+ and there are a handful that are 1,000+.

Reply #875392 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Hawthorn didn't develop the talent they had, most of it was poached from other clubs.

Reply #875394 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

How many of the Big V players at Hawthorn actually game thru the Magic Jnr program .... ummm .. currently 3.

So Domestic have been paying for 4 Big V teams .. 40 players and very few are from Magic... that is crap

That's not a pathway ... it is arrogance dressed up as a aspiration for kids to look up too .. so wrong

Reply #875401 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"Anon" who posted
“There should be only 1 association per LGA. We would get rid of Chelsea, Keyborough, Westgate, Camberwell. It's supposed to be rep ball. Representative of your local area.”

You are ignorant in not knowing that Chelsea are in fact the only association in their LGA. Educate yourself please before you make these comments.

Reply #875404 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

But kids don't play in their local area, and council areas don’t mean anything ... just who you pay your rates to for garbage collection. Councils don’t even fund any bball, really. So LGAs are irrelevant and it’s a bit of a silly statement that kids should represent their local LGA. Move on.

Reply #875405 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Stop trying to make every post a Chelsea hate post

Reply #875406 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Why so much hate for Chelsea?

Reply #875409 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Mostly because of the hound potting everyone else for years and carrying on like a dick

Reply #875414 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Carry on then

Reply #875415 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Serious how many email can Hawthorn send out in one week bombarding Club members- 5 and counting , must be a breach for privacy ...let alone the desperate social media campaign .. 3 times a day..

WE haven't played in the comp for 5 years and still get their drivel ..it is enough already!

Reply #875446 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Desperation.

Reply #875453 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The social media clearly doesn't know who it’s customer is or was?? Before this week, the latest post specifically relevant to a domestic member or club (excluding govt updates and wordy attacks on domestic clubs once they had left) was March 21, 2020. Everything else that gets featured is about Hawthorn Magic or over priced clinics. Only the elite matter to Hawthorn. You don’t even have to be local.

Reply #875456 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Yet the brand is strong, apart from a few disaffected people who are upset about a bit of money. That's because Magic have been actually pretty good at developing basketballers. Look, COVID has been a shocker, and people have lost a few bucks, you can’t get every cent back and that’s ok. Life is not insured. Move on and stop trying to tear people down who after all are just volunteering. Reckon there are about two or three negative contribute here just saying the same thing over and over.

Reply #875457 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

You think Covid is why it's gotten this bad for the Magic Association? Or a hand full of people concerned about a couple of dollars? Lots of people involved in basketball are volunteers. Not just the board. Safe to say it’s Hawthorn doing the 'tearing down’ via email to every member they have had in the past 10 years. I have not coached or played there in 5 years!
Hawthorn Magic is a great club on reputation and hopefully it continues to develop kids without the over spend. Maybe now with a little more focus on local kids instead of recruiting from other associations to win?

Reply #875460 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Why do you care if you haven't been involved for 5 years???

Reply #875461 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I gotta say I do enjoy coming back to this thread. LOL! Silly old Hawthorn thought the wins at the top were the key to success overall. Community sport is exactly that, COMMUNITY sport. They have hung a lot on some big community contributors thinking they could push people around. Let's see what this investigation pulls out, if it ever happens.

Reply #875462 | Report this post


Why do I care?  
Two months ago

They keep sending me EMAILS!!!!

Reply #875463 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

CAPS lock person back.

Reply #875464 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It's just the same person over and over.

Reply #875465 | Report this post


Why do I care?  
Two months ago

- and to shoot straight I'm disappointed that it’s gone this way. Hawthorn has blown itself up. Easy to blame the domestic clubs, but the debt, the over spend, the BigV program were all issues for years. Would have loved to have known the going rate to coach at Magic was 10k. I should have negotiated my contract better!

Reply #875466 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

An angry 10-12 people at least. Very angry.

Reply #875469 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Well I think it is settled. This seems to all be a disgruntled former coach from 5 or so years ago who wasn't being paid much if anything, and just wants to lob grenades. And has a CAPS lock issue.

Reply #875470 | Report this post


Baller65  
Two months ago

Seems to be too much heavy detail in here to just be him/her? Surely $10,000 isn't actually what they pay coaches there? The rest I’m sure will be confirmed/denied when Basketball Victoria finish looking into whatever they are looking in to.

Reply #875472 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Boring.
Basketball Victoria: finish this off so it's not a talking point any more.

Reply #875473 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It's not really a talking point. Think it’s just the same person (maybe two or three) saying the same stuff. It will blow over.

Reply #875474 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What have the emails been saying?

Reply #875489 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

First few accused the clubs of leaving to put money in administrator pockets. Harped on being not for profit although keeping a lot of money collected for rounds not played due to covid.
I don't know the figures, scroll up.
Kept 2/3 delivered 1/3. Something like that.

Reply #875503 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

All quiet here ...

Reply #875612 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Senior Big V teams pulled. More to come

Reply #875622 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Any news on Magics Juniors?

Reply #875626 | Report this post


Game Watcher  
Last month

How can we confirm about Senior teams?

Reply #875629 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

How did you hear that?
Shame they didn't do that a year (or 2) ago and they might not be in such hot water.
Is that a byproduct of that BV investigation? Maybe they are helping that board with their decision making.

Reply #875630 | Report this post


Baller65  
Last month

It's almost like it scripted now... but seriously, good question. What about this investigation? Just disappearing into the shadows?

Reply #875631 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Surely it is time for BV to make its findings and for things to move on, kids want to play sport and Hawthorn need to accept what has happened , own it and stop the confusion they are causing with all the emails to people.

It is not helping parents or kids to get back onto court

Reply #875673 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

BV are taking BA's lead in sweeping investigations under the carpet.

Reply #875677 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

So many parents of Hawthorn VJBL players have so many unanswered questions.

Anyone know when there will be some updates published?

Reply #875680 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Let it go people

Reply #875683 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Last month

if parents are worried there are alternatives to Hawthorn Basketball. All the EDJBA clubs are in full preparation mode for the upcoming seasson. https://edjba.com.au/club-websites/

Balwyn Blazers
Banyule Hawks
Blackburn Vikings
Bulleen Boomers
Coburg Lions
Collingwood All Stars
Doncaster
Doreen Cougars
Eltham Wildcats
Fairfield Shooters
Greenhills
Ivanhoe Knights
Koonung Comets
Marcellin Eagles
Mill Park Titans
Mitcham Thunder
Park Orchards Steelers
Panthers
Warrandyte Redbacks
Whitehorse Mustangs
Worawa Aboriginal College

Reply #875710 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last month

Ringwood Hawks, which has some good coaches

Reply #875738 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Apparently Nunawading have received heaps of try-out requests. Interesting in the context of this thread.

Reply #875759 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Ringwood? That's too funny. They end up with those who get cut from Nunawading and Knox.

Nunawading tryout numbers are off the charts by all reports, while Eltham and Frankston have big numbers set to attend too.

Reply #875767 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Raises the question ... what is the right balance between new players at a club and supporting those kids already at the club? Reckon a club should only take a few new players if there are enough existing, committed players in the club. Would be terrible to cut an existing rep player, just to fit in a kid who is moving for whatever reason.

Reply #875772 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Hawthorn still approaching coaches.. to coach VJBL so thy must still be going ok.

Reply #875774 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Hawthorn haven't locked all their coaches in yet? Hmmm...that's a worry.

Reply #875781 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Am betting the existing Nunawading kids are thrilled by the prospect of heaps of additional kids trying out.

Some associations have a policy of working out how many returning kids there are, give them a position and from there working out how many they take through to either fill spots or if they have extra capacity create new teams.

Reply #875784 | Report this post


LC  
Last month

Only 2 kids from other rep clubs transferring can be inserted into any one team.

Reply #875786 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Is that 2 from any 1 club, or 2 in aggregate across all other clubs?

Reply #875787 | Report this post


LC  
Last month

2 in aggregate from any club in any one team.

Example: if a club had 5 teams in 2021, and have 5 teams in 2022, they can have 2 players in each one of those 5 teams that may have played for any other club in 2021. If that same club added a 6th (or more teams) in 2022, every additional team can be comprised of as many transfer players as is required to make up the team.

Reply #875789 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

2 transfers (from any club) per team

Reply #875790 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Its now official. No Big V program.

RIP Hawthorn Magic.

Reply #875802 | Report this post


Baller65  
Last month

Sad.
Had hawthorn chopped the BigV program a year ago and done the financially responsible things Ross the association. They wouldn't be in the mess they are in now.

Reply #875813 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Sad? Or funny.
They probably got forced to pull out by BV.
Can't make a strong decision to save themselves.

Reply #875814 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Sad? Or funny.
They probably got forced to pull out by BV.
Can't make a strong decision to save themselves.

Reply #875815 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

At what point are the Board at Hawthorn actually own up and take responsibility for the mess.

Domestic have funded them for years and tried to work through the issue, but it is never the Boards fault!

Nice to blame Clubs for the downfall of Big V, what a load of crap - ALL Hawthorns doing.

Plus the BV investigation is about Hawthorn what has gone on for 12 clubs to leave... more spin and arrogance. Starting to err on the side of slander with the current emails they are putting out

Reply #875820 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Yep , more sticking the hand out for money for a comp that will not get off the ground , with no refund for parents/teams that have registered.

Just money grabbing - no care - no responsibility

You think BH would have learn something by now, seems not

Reply #875821 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Last month

So with the announcement of the Big V competition structure, it is now obvious that Hawthorn will not have any Youth League or Senior teams.

With their Jr domestic competition appearing to collapse, does this make them a VJBL only association?

Or do they also run a Sr domestic competition?
I would question if an association could survive financially.

Reply #875855 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

How long will Hawthorn stay in VJBL? Why would you play at a club with no option of a senior program or pathway?

Reply #875859 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Why would you play at an association that ripped off families and tried to profit off covid to hide a financial mess?

Reply #875869 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

They have senior domestic.
Hopefully they manage those members well as they are running out of wheels to fall off!
Damage to junior rep will be significant. With luck Hawthorn receives the hard truths and actually hears them.
Assuming there is something to salvage.

Reply #875878 | Report this post


Harry Potter  
Last month

As a magician myself, I heard that Magic only have 400 people trying out across the club? Compared to 6-700 previously. Maybe it's the $25 fee just to be there? Doesn’t even include a wand.

Dumbledore is prone to stretching the truth though.

Not sure how many teams are playing in their domestic competition but I suspect it will be limited to a 1 venue affair.

Reply #875879 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Hey Harry, maybe you can do a spell and sort Magic with a few hundred thou to fix their management's mistakes?

Reply #875883 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Try outs are a bit of a joke anyway. 150 kids trying for 40-50 places, majority of which are pre-determined. The remaining spots are filled a bit randomly.

Reply #875894 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

You mean 'magically' find $900k+ to solve their debt woes don't you Harry?

Reply #875896 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

^ on what basis would you make that assertion as to the debt position?

Reply #875897 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Don't know how high the debt got but from all accounts it was high!!! And I’m told the board presented that figure wayyy lower than it actually was at the start of Covid. Hundreds of thousands lower which is unlikely to just be a mistake IMO.
900k seems a lot and I assume that given the refund policy debacle that nunber is lower now?
Can’t members ask to see that information whenever? I guess they don’t have any members now (a sore point), but I assume clubs themselves demanded that detail fairly regularly over the past year?

Reply #875902 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Don't know how high the debt got but from all accounts it was high!!! And I’m told the board presented that figure wayyy lower than it actually was at the start of Covid. Hundreds of thousands lower which is unlikely to just be a mistake IMO.
900k seems a lot and I assume that given the refund policy debacle that nunber is lower now?
Can’t members ask to see that information whenever? I guess they don’t have any members now (a sore point), but I assume clubs themselves demanded that detail fairly regularly over the past year?

Reply #875903 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

How has that happened. I call BS

Reply #875914 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Pre-COVID, Hawthorn was found to be in debt around $980k in fact. Suspect this has since been eaten into across the last 18mths, but that is massive.

Reply #875919 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

They have a very nice uniform.

Reply #875926 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

980k?!
Don't BV check the financials?

Reply #875932 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

180 K for big V x 5 years, plus rebranding and a purchase of $150K of magic uniforms they can't sell and $40K of uniforms they wrote off

Reply #875933 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Grew too quickly and top heavy with staff , average wage is $100K plus all the Magic coaches before covid on $10K per season

Reply #875934 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Final figure was $940K of debt , including all liabilities, after sucking refund money out of domestic for 18 months would be down to $450-500K

Reply #875935 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Hawthorn had not lodge financials to BV for 4 years, Treasurer was not told it was a requirement under BV association rules

Reply #875936 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

That rebrand probably seems like a poor choice right about now. Hope they designed the logo themselves.

Reply #875937 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

So BV never followed up these financials? Isn't that their job?

Reply #875947 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last month

That was the general impression, which is why we're waiting for the results of their review.

Did BV not do its job, or did BH mis-represent their financial situation, or ?..

Reply #875949 | Report this post


From the inside  
Last month

If the rumours are correct that Hawthorn hadn't paid Big V fees for 4-5 years, what the hell are Big V doing letting it get that bad? Surely after falling 2 years behind in payments, Big V take it to it's member clubs to vote them out? It's happened before.

Reply #875958 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Seems to be a column A column B situation. BV & BH dropped the ball on this one.
Also seems those domestic clubs made a good call!

Reply #875972 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

One of the Hawthorn logos isn't even trade marked , way to go putting that on everything before you have it registered.... just more incompetence

Reply #875984 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The whole investigation is for BV to save face and be seen as doing something.

For Hawthorn to buy time, to get things organised.

And for BA to not look stupid, after appointing the Magic Chair and Board member from Hawthorn as CEO

All about image , noting about truth!

Reply #875985 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

after the crap Hawthorn has put out there in the past month, BV will have to come out with an actual statement of findings from investigation, or at least get Hawthorn to retract all the BS they have been sprouting!!

Reply #875986 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The investigation will find BV at least partially at fault and so they will say nothing.

Reply #876012 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Well to retain any dignity BV better make an announcement, they owe that to the Clubs who Hawthorn have thrown under the bus and members who have been ripped off need an explanation

Reply #876057 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last month

BV is probably crafting the response with their lawyers right now. (Just like BA probably did.)

Reply #876075 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

What , no care , no responsibility !

Reply #876080 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Hawthorn's board should be embarrassed.
But the arrogance gets in the way.

Reply #876092 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

This investigation?
Finished? Started? Outcome?
Time to wrap this sh*t up.

Reply #876110 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

What is the latest with this?

Reply #876114 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Any updates?

Reply #876127 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

If they follow BA's investigation process, expect a release at 5pm on a Friday in about 4 month's time.

Reply #876128 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Still going from what we hear, will be about a week.

Hawthorn will be sorry they pushed for an investigation , hearing stories that some seriously dirty laundry, breach of by law and constitution and hiding financials from BV has been going on

Will it be enough to make them loose their licence ????

Reply #876133 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

And they keep implying it's not them being investigated in their communications. Comical really because if only half of what is being said is true, the fall could be worse than any of us could guess.

Reply #876145 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

More desperate emails from Hawthorn this arvo, seriously more tabloid crap!

The Board are living in La La land, much like the creative accounting practices they have.

Time to move on , all dignity has been lost and Hawthorn have completely ruined there own brand and reputation - can't see families trusting them moving forward!

Reply #876147 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Gee when did 70 teams make a domestic competition , that will fill about 3 courts for 4 hours ... feel really bad for all those venues they had said they had booked, when they had no chance of filling the courts.

Venues have done it hard and now Hawthorn had blocked them from weekend rental potential.... shows how much they care about the community .. NOT

Reply #876148 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Happy to have my kid back playing basketball this Saturday rather than waiting another three months to play.

Reply #876155 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

3 months? Who is sitting out three months? Our club has options galore and the costing across those is particularly reasonable.
Nothing wrong with getting on court at $100-$110 a game if that's what your group wants to do. Don’t reference that $70 team sheet please. Marketing wasn’t clear on all the extra, non refundables.

The jig needed to be up for Hawthorn with the bigger picture and I’m glad our club has taken a stand for us. Maybe your club needs to give you more information about how it got here?

Reply #876156 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Be interested to see these now famous emails

Reply #876158 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I thought Hawthorn parents would be a little more educated than to be having a whinge on a forum. Obviously not.

Reply #876160 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Who says parents are from Hawthorn , many Magic played come from further a a field .. Geelong Werribee etc

Reply #876161 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Our Club is running training at no cost till Xmas and their will be some domestic Clubs doing matched on the weekends for teams that want to play.

Heard that Clubs are concerned for the venues that Hawthorn said they would be using and now aren't , so Club will provide them with some revenue.

Which is something Clubs and Camberwell can do , as they are not top heavy with 12 paid staff, that makes sense and is good for the community!

Reply #876163 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

So what are the fees for Junior magic now? Does anyone know?

Reply #876164 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

$890 plus $1 per game and $25 to try out.

Reply #876168 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

$890 registration fee

Plus $25 to try out

Plus $1 per game financial resilience levy

Plus $120-$140 per week team sheet

So, rep basketball is not cheap. Probably about $1250 for the season, all up and not including the costs of tournaments.

Registration fee at other clubs is more like $500 or so

Reply #876171 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Will assume Magic fees will need to increase seeing Hawthorn don't have domestic to fund it anymore, just the reg fee will be up over $1000 plus, let alone the add on costs

Reply #876174 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Most rep clubs fees are $500-600.

Reply #876175 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Most rep clubs don't have a Head of Basketball on a $100K and also get $25K for coaching a team , like Hawthorn do

Reply #876180 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Who got paid $100K???????

Reply #876184 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Most rep clubs don't have a Head of Basketball on a $100K and also get $25K for coaching a team , like Hawthorn do

Plus handing out coaching jobs to his relos and placing their kids in the Magic program. It all speaks to the arrogance with which the club has been run.

Reply #876187 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The import from Werribee - Deon

Reply #876193 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Hawthorn advertising for new head coaches. Who left?

Reply #876364 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Ffs, please shut this down as well, it's doing everyone's head in. No-one cares apart from a couple of fanatical idiots.

Reply #876368 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

If you don't want to read it, ignore it. The bits I've skimmed at a couple of points have seemed surprisingly reasonable going by the regular standard of forum discussions about basketball organisations.

Reply #876374 | Report this post


lol  
Last month

Jesus, the price of rep coaches has gone from $10k to $25k in this thread. Maybe I'll come out of retirement for that sort of money

Reply #876396 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Well said Issac.

Spot on!

Reply #876439 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

i've got a challenge
no one ever post on this thread again

Reply #876581 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Wow Shawn King has left Hawthorn , moved to Melb Uni..wonder what that does to Magic. ?

Reply #876623 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Drove passed Hawthorn office today in Deepdene , doesn't look open at all... just needed a fine fishing sign on the front door and a couple of tumble weeds to roll passed down the street .

Reply #876625 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Shawn King was so loyal to Hawthorn.... Can't be a good thing for them. But perhaps a good move for him.

Reply #876626 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

That would make sense HBA we're advertising for Head coaches a couple of days ago ... well that’s got to hurt

Reply #876634 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

"lol" that's pocket change for camberwell/hawthorn people!

Reply #876637 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

@Ket
Maybe so , but Hawthorns pockets got a massive black hole in it and it's bleeding money/ but stuffed with arrogance , thus the debt!

Would be good if Hawthorn just told the actual truth , without the spin and hate and played it straight

Remaining Magic parents are about to reinvest for another year and should be respected enough to know what is going on , not just fork out more money after bad.

Reply #876644 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

What are tryout numbers like at Hawthorn?

Reply #876656 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Hearing some promising developments are on the horizon...

Reply #876657 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Like what , that Hawthorn will be charged for trading while in solvent , to taking members money while not providing a service .. that would be good.. justice at last!

Reply #876662 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Thought Hawthorn IG post re domestic bball being back was very pointed - all the photos included kids wearing Titans uniforms, and Titans have said they left domestic. Kids don't care - they just want to play bball.

Reply #876728 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

They may want to play ball , but does a d grade team what to front up and play an a grade team and get thrashed 0 to 65 each week .. that's going to scar a kid.

Happened on the weekend numerous times at Hawthorns comp , under 12 playing under 14s , basically 10/11 yr olds again 13 ur olds ... accident waiting to happen

Reply #876729 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Promising developments?
There is no chance these clubs will be going back to Hawthorn.

Reply #876735 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Get this investigation over and the finding out there so Hawthorn, and everyone attached to it, can move on.
Seems to me they (HAW) will owe Camberwell and all of those domestic clubs and their members an apology.

Reply #876736 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Totally agree, the Clubs and Camberwell have just gone about getting kids on court and being positive , while Hawthorn have just sling mud and taken no responsibility.

Camberwell have done BV a favour , of keeping players engaged in the sport.

Now BV need to take action , support the Club's and move on . Oh and Hawthorn need to retract the crap they have spun and apologies publicly

Reply #876737 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Dont think Hawthorn need to apologise

Reply #876742 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Really taking money from families for no service and throwing Clubs under the bus for protecting families and player interests ... causing 100's of additional hours of works for volunteer run clubs due to financial mismanagement and the list goes on

Reply #876748 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Hawthorn have plenty to apologize for.
In particular to the people who trusted them to do the right thing with their member's money. I’m sure the members are grateful the clubs stood up for them.

Reply #876788 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Through this whole process and investigation Hawthorn have behaved like spoilt brats throwing a tantrum , Camberwell have acted with calm and concern for the families , players and community.

I know which association I want my kids playing for , one that acts responsibly, has values and has true team work at heart, which is what community sport should be about .

Not winning at all costs , and ripping off families !

Game over

Reply #876805 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

This thread is ridiculously long!

How much was being charged by:

- Domestic clubs per player to register with them?
- Team sheet fees for junior games?
- Hawthorn Magic junior registrations per player?

Reply #876819 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Team Sheet $95 per team ($95 x 15 weeks x 7.5 players) - $190 per season per player ($12.66 per game x 15 weeks - $190) -

This was one of the Clubs biggest concerns that it cost $190 to run a Saturday game when average court cost was $55 then ref $22 max each x 2 = $99 - the additional $100 went to admin costs - most games only had one ref

Magic Rep $950 plus - then game fees on top

Club cost (training and coach fee per season (15 weeks) plus finals) $150.00 per player


Reply #876822 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

And if you have a bye the team still pays that game fee.

Reply #876825 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

What - you pay to have a Bye where you do not get to play? That is ridiculous!


$950 + game fees to play rep is steep - many other nearby clubs around $600 mark + game fees.

Reply #876828 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Paying for bye rounds. No wonder they left!

Reply #876829 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Plus pay for Semis , even if the team isn't in the finals

Reply #876831 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Paying for byes and finals regardless of whether you play.

Reply #876870 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

And Hawthorn think they are the victim here?
BV will have their work cut out trying to save Hawthorn from themselves here.
Hurry up with this investigation too. Sick of hearing about it and there not being an outcome. Time for everyone to move on, including this thread.

Reply #876875 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Paying team sheet fees for a week where your team does not play is highway robbery. That is 100% gouging.

How did/does Hawthorn justify that?

In any case, if you are not happy with or at Hawthorn, move to somewhere where you will be happy. Plenty of other (better) options around.

Reply #876881 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

That is what the Clubs have done - moved on , while providing players and families a better option in Camberwell that is community minded.

It is Hawthorn that has bought basketball into disrepute , with poor leadership , financial management and muck racking. If it was company it would be wound up , and not be able to trade again for 5 years.

Hiding behind the so called "not for profit" - has warn thin - All for arrogance!

The Board should be terminated, held to account and BV appoint an administrator, and pay off the poor venues and other debtors who are owed money from well over 2 years! Action needs to be taken and swiftly!

Come on BV rip the band aid off and get it over with....

Reply #876887 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Why is this still going does anyone actually care or even still have any interest in this?

Reply #876891 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Why is this still going does anyone actually care or even still have any interest in this?

Reply #876892 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Why is this still going does anyone actually care or even still have any interest in this?

Reply #876893 | Report this post


JustLikeMagic  
Last month

Obviously some people do...

Reply #876896 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Hands up who wants to see this resolved so that it doesn't need discussing anymore? Hawthorn, just exit stage left and we can all just move forward. It’s been embarrassing for a while now.

Reply #876900 | Report this post


JustLikeMagic  
Last month

Anyone still at Magic for the next rep season should expect a lot on return for paying overs ($950 a season) compared to other clubs.

Do HBA still have clubs to be able to run a domestic competition anymore?

Reply #876902 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Magic parents are still waiting in refunds from canceled season from Hawthorn

There are no domestic Clubs at Hawthorn - and no domestic competition moving forward

Just a small 70 teams buys/girls 6 week round robin from U9-U23 Youth , no grading of teams , kids are getting injured and mental scarred from being slaughtered 0-65 .. how can this be good for basketball

Reply #876904 | Report this post


JustLikeMagic  
Last month

Wow. Thanks for advising.

That is a massive fall from grace for HBA. So in essence they are now operating more like Melbourne Tigers - a rep Association with no domestic program/clubs, but a massive debt hanging over them.

Reply #876906 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

They still have a senior domestic comp 159 teams, but no Clubs
Snr domestic is run during the week, teams opt in and pay on a weekly basis

Unlike the Clubs who had to pay for 5 round up front and had a extorsion refund policy applied to them , keeping 100% first 2 rounds lost to covid and 50% per round after that - equated to 2/3 or the seasons fees they tried to keep. If the Clubs hadn't refused to hand over the final instalment players/parent could have got nothing back.

You can't keep peoples money for a service not provided

Reply #876908 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

So they take the steps to reduce excess spending they probably should have taken at the start of Covid and rebuild from there. Safe to say those domestic clubs won't be back.

Reply #876936 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

And then that's the end of this thread. The End

Reply #876937 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Have try-outs been strong, or have numbers dropped?

Reply #877009 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Dropped by half of the normal number that tryout at Hawthorn

Reply #877020 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

500 signed up for VJBL trials.

Reply #877024 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Geez - 500 is a solid number. Must be doing something right.

Reply #877025 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

More like 400 , normally 800-900 tryout

Reply #877027 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

A lot of Magic players turned up to find 2/3s of their team mates were not at tryouts , home to other Rep Clubs

Reply #877028 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

If it's 400 across boys and girls and across 12, 14, 16 and 18, then that is 50 per age group. Basically everyone gets a game. Some clubs are getting 140 per age group. Grading will be interesting to watch, given starting positions are based on what happened a couple of years ago. That’s the real test of where the club is at for next year. They won’t have 2 teams in VC like they did.

Reply #877029 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

On boys side, they have 7 teams ranked in the top 24 of the age groups (2 in 12s, 2 in 14s, 2 in 16s and 1 in 18s). Going to be v painful for the seconds teams. BV should intervene in the first grading and adjust.

Reply #877030 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Your assuming those 1st players are staying good , a number were paid and have jumped to other Rep Clubs

Reply #877033 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The rankings will sort themselves out. If teams are not good enough, they will fall.
I've heard in the girls quite a few upper end kids have left due to the exodus of coaches (some coaches pushed & some walked). Then there is the lack of clarity of Hawthorn’s future.
The boys I believe have a few healthy age groups still.
Time will tell.
Anybody know what the fees are going to be at Magic?
They are already very high compared to other clubs but surely people don’t try out without knowing what they are signing up for financially? And with all the talk about money over there, even more reason to know you would think?

Reply #877048 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Surely kids were not being paid?! Maybe paid for? Hawthorn have some great local kids. Recruiting over your own talent is pretty poor form (albeit common place in VJBL). Safe to say that as the recruited kids now head back to their local clubs Hawthorn will have lost out on their own kids too. Hawthorn are not the only club that lose their way like that though, so let's not pretend Hawthorn are the only club in that basket.
I’ve definitely heard hawthorn people boast about being a 'destination club’. Not really a catch cry that screams looking after local kids is it.

Reply #877049 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Fees $950 for 2022 season per child. Way more than others in the area which are around $600.

Reply #877057 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

May have been a destination club at one point , but quite happy to take external player talent over kids who played and paid for the local domestic comp.

Happened when Dion joined and brought half of Werribee Over , let alone the nepotism with kids who parent are in the board , yet not of that standard, but still have a place in the 1 and 2...just more BS and shifty behaviour

Reply #877096 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

NOTICE OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE MEMBERS


A Special Meeting of the Members of Basketball Hawthorn Inc. (BH) will be held:

Wednesday 9 December 2021 at 7:00pm via Video-conference (Zoom) - Details to be provided upon registration



The Constitution of the Basketball Hawthorn (adopted December 2020) is available here.



The special business of the Meeting shall be –

(a) Special Resolution A – Amend the BH Constitution (see attached Special Resolution – Explanatory Memorandum);



Special Resolution A – Amend the BH Constitution

The following resolution is proposed:

'It is proposed to amend the BH Constitution (Special Resolution – Explanatory Memorandum)'



Proposed by BH Board Under Rule 6, in accordance with the Associations Incorporation Reform Act 2012 (Vic), amendments to the Constitution of the Association or Special Resolutions will only be passed if at least 75 per cent of the members who vote at the meeting vote in favour of any resolution to change the Constitution.



The following documents are available on the website (see links below):

Special Resolutions – Explanatory Memorandum of proposed resolutions
Current BH Constitution

The Secretary must also be notified of the nominated voting delegate for each member club or representative section prior to the commencement of the Special Meeting. No proxy or postal votes are allowed. Please email [email protected] with the name of the voting delegate to receive the zoom link.

Reply #877246 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

They still have members?
Maybe some of the magic faithful should roll in for that?

Reply #877254 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Last month

Fantastic move. now the people who pay the fees will actually be recognised as members and have voting rights if this amendment to the Constitution is approved.

Member of all associations should read the club Constitution/rules of association. If you can't vote you’re not really a member you’re just a cash cow

Reply #877255 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Your assuming they actually follow the constitution !

When they were dealing with the Clubs it was violated a number of times ...

Reply #877257 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

It's a good step.
They changed the constitution to make the club level have the votes and ensure they kept previous administrations (GMC) from returning... sure, but recognize your membership better. It’s not good governance.

Hawthorn need to start fresh and this helps. Now leave the departing clubs alone and consider exercising some grace.

Reply #877264 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Not sure the Board are going anywhere from the rumours circulating, so no change in administration

This change in constitution will allow Hawthorn to contact members directly, under the current constitution all communication is meant to go through the Clubs , not from the association. Just another breach in protocol and constitution, oh and privacy .

Reply #877267 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Given the clubs left, their notice has lapsed... Hawthorn could only contact its current members. Not past members.

Reply #877268 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

They are not meant to keep contact details more than 6 months old , through this whole process people who left basketball 5 plus years ago have been on their mailing list.

They will continue doing the same ,

Reply #877269 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Last month

I keep seeing comments in this thread relating to contact details being kept longer than six months.

I'm somewhat curious to why people think contact details cannot be retained and utilised for the purpose in which they were collected, which I presume was the communication of association events and basketball administration. If that was the purpose in which the contact details were collected there is not a breach of privacy

Reply #877274 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I think their constitutions says they will not hold people's data longer than 6 months?
And if the clubs are the members and left, then the club members are not Hawthorn’s members to contact? I think?
Means that their new structure would only apply to whoever is in a team playing with them now? And they can email those people forever if they want to set it up that way I assume? But that is now no longer the past domestic club’s concern.

Reply #877281 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Is this still dragging on lol

Reply #877285 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

BV need to get their investigation's findings out there so the whole of hawthorn/Camberwell basketball can move on.

Reply #877322 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Agree with that. Been too long. Parents and kids need to know, particularly Magic families who are about to pony up a lot of money for a new season.

Reply #877371 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Whats the latest with this?

Reply #877394 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Nothing out of BV. I assume that is what the next step is.

Reply #877479 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

If Bv investigate and find they haven't followed their own processes in regards to club financials etc, would they be in a hurry to get that out to the public?

Reply #877480 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last month

I agree. It can't be anything BUT that BV we’re asleep at the wheel, or prepared to let things go for some reason.

Given the amount of reasonable suggestion of financial misdealings, BV must be on very shaky ground.

I’m expecting it to be released quietly with nothing to be made public, probably not even to the clubs. Regardless, I expect it to be so carefully written and so full of spin that even Scotty would be impressed.

Reply #877487 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

You can bet the clubs that have been put through it will be candid. And so they should!

Reply #877501 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Clubs have been nothing but honest and transparent with members through this whole process over the past 18 plus months . Always mindful they are dealing with members money and giving back where they can during covid.

Why should BV and Hawthorn be held to the same standards and requirements , they are dealing with the public's money and operating in a community space !

Reply #877502 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

BV should stand the Hawthorn board down and try to salvage Hawthorn Magic if at all possible. It's quite clear from the commentary above that they are at risk of this getting even worse. It may also be way too late.
I bet that the skeletons are not going to be flattering for hawthorn should BV choose to also use the domestic clubs as a scapegoat for this.

Reply #877503 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Not sure yuh can sweep this under the rug , too many people have too much information, quite easy for Clubs to go public with it , if BV throw them under the bus .

Hawthorn need to be accountable , the debt was not incurred by the Clubs , the refund policy ripped $400k plus out of domestic members money.

The debt was their before covid , covid brought the debt to light , no way of hiding it anymore .

Time for Hawthorn to own it , stop the crap and let everyone else move on

Reply #877505 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Time for people posting on this to give up

Reply #877506 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

It's just one person, with poor punctuation.

Reply #877507 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Grapevine saying that Hawthorn and Camberwell domestic will be merged/combined. BV overseeing. Probably the best result for all. Apparently that was how it was in the past? Other than BV overseeing..makes sense. Get the kids back on court and move on.

Reply #877511 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Can't see Camberwell agreeing to that?

Reply #877516 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The kids are already getting back on court at Camberwell. Why should Camberwell now be saddled with Hawthorn and their financial mismanagement? The BV overseeing part doesn't fill me with confidence either.

Reply #877519 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

So people have no choice but to pay money towards the past debt if they want to play bball in the local area? What?

Reply #877520 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Rumour has it BV made a proposal to Hawthorn with a loan , and for the Board to step down , and BV to appoint an administrator and works with current remaining staff . The Board at Hawthorn rejected it.

The Clubs can not be forced to go back to Hawthorn , they can play where they want , it is a seasonal competition anyway . Notice has well and truely been given and time served

Reply #877534 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Rumour has it BH staff told all positions are safe with BV guaranteeing salaries.

Reply #877551 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Why should BV money, raised from basketballers all over Vic, go towards funding Hawthorn? Really?

Reply #877553 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Agree the broad basketball community don't deserve this sh*t.

Reply #877556 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

#877553 so your solution is staff lose their jobs a month before Christmas?

Reply #877557 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

That would be the board's fault...

Reply #877559 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Sorry... that is the board's fault. Those people have tried to hide their mistakes through financial abuse of the general member. 1000s of families.

Reply #877560 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The responsibility rests with the board. Didn't they employ the current GM while in this mess? Did they let him know when they hired him how bad it was? That guy has been lead astray.

Reply #877564 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

No I would not be pleased with people losing their jobs. I just don't think the general basketball community should pay for mismanagement, if that is what has caused the issue. If BV wish to protect their jobs, put them to work at BV.

Reply #877565 | Report this post


Baller65  
Last month

We still here?
Nobody wants to see the people employed by that board suffer the consequences of their poor decisions. Their staff dont deserve it, but neither do the people Hawthorn have chosen to blame for their errors.

Reply #877571 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

At the end of the day. The board of BH and the operations management team made decisions to spend money that they clearly did not have. Financial mismanagement, they are responsible for the current situation and they should be held accountable.

Reply #877591 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The Board and prior GM are responsible full stop

Reply #877604 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last month

Am I the only one worried by this fluff piece which is still on the BH website, from July 2 this year:

"Basketball Hawthorn congratulates Director Matt Scriven on the announcement today of his appointment as Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Basketball Australia.

Matt has lent his significant professional expertise and basketball knowledge to Basketball Hawthorn, and the Association's representative programs in particular, over the past five years.

He has been a member of the Hawthorn Magic Representative Committee since 2016, and has served as its Chair and a Basketball Hawthorn Board Director since October 2019. In that time, he has been instrumental in raising the calibre and profile of Hawthorn Magic.

As a result of his appointment, Matt will step down from his positions within Hawthorn Magic and Basketball Hawthorn immediately to take up the new role from July 5.

Matt said he would leave Basketball Hawthorn sound in the knowledge it was well poised for continued high-level success."


I'm so glad BA is in such capable hands.

Reply #877607 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

It probably one of the reasons nothing has been announced .. PR nightmare

Reply #877609 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

This has the 10th largest number of replies to any post on this forum. Remarkable for a club to feature to that extent.

Reply #877764 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I still can't see what everyones problem is???

Reply #877769 | Report this post


Anonymous  
A few hours ago

The initial problem:
Hawthorn over charged and kept funds they morally were not entitled to through a pandemic in order to rush paying down historical debt attached to programs they couldn't afford and an over staffed office. This strategy was not what was agreed to by the people advocating for the broader basketball community in the area, the club representatives. Those people sought help from their board, Hawthorns office and BV themselves as their members complained in the background.

The solution:
Another community focused and local option appeared and the domestic clubs each explored that and left Hawthorn (to Waverley and Camberwell). This would force the hand of Hawthorn to spend more responsibly and perhaps have the board put their hand up and say, 'we made a mistake’. It seems the personalities there have a hard time with that being an option. This could have been a case closed moment.

Why are we still talking: Hawthorn are mad that they were caught off guard and thought they could get away with bullying the grass roots level of the competition to solve their mostly elite level problems. They hid behind the pandemic blaming it for inflated costs but that appears to not be the real cause for almost $100 domestic basketball team sheets. It’s embarrassing for them and now in turn embarrassing for basketball Victoria because they didn’t have eyes on how bad it was.
It’s drawn out because BV no doubt will have a hard time doing what is best for basketball here and not also kicking themselves in the process (or their past employee, the current Hawthorn GM).

Why I’m interested: I want to see the right thing done here. I’m also hella curious about what BV will do. The right thing and leave the domestic clubs out of Hawthorn’s problems, or continue to endorse poor governance? Surely these clubs, making a profit or otherwise being the scapegoat doesn’t help the broader basketball community over there. All that said, time to wrap this thing up.

If you are in the trenches and I’ve missed something in this synopsis... by all means, the floor is yours.

Reply #877779 | Report this post


Anonymous  
A few hours ago

Not sure why you think the current GM deserves a "kicking" by BV for any of this. They started in June 2021 and were in charge for one round of junior matches before another fourteen week lockdown.





Reply #877783 | Report this post


Anonymous  
A few hours ago

Didn't say he needs a kicking? I said that by implicating hawthorn they implicate themselves. Which results in a kicking for all parties including that new GM,. I didnt say that he deserves it. Perhaps the GM that drove the association into debt could answer some questions though?

That guy (Jason?) has been lead astray by Hawthorn’s board and certainly doesn’t deserve the likely outcome here. But I would also say that the people attached to these domestic clubs, the members in particular, don’t deserve any of this either.

Reply #877784 | Report this post


Anonymous  
A couple of hours ago

The old GM should be held accountable , Brock , he now works at BV , after glowing reports from the Chair of the Board and CEO of BA who was ex Hawthorn Board and Magic Chair

Reply #877819 | Report this post




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