Why wouldn't this be possible now?

Wouldn't the thing preventing be that limestone were in Reserves only?

I think if a regional team has aspirations of playing nationals, they should be willing to play in the state grade of state champs.

If BA were to allocate another SA slot for nationals (which, IMO, we deserve) then I think it should go to the best 3 SA teams - IE if a country team wanted the spot, they'd need to qualify top 3 at state champs.

I don't think SA Country deserve a guaranteed spot, though I do think SA needs more teams than Tas & NT at the U14s.

**Edit - would BA allow Limestone to enter the CLUB nationals, even if they qualified? Aren't they a conglomerate of associations in the region? Having said that, NT & Tassie enter regional teams...?

But in response to the post above, apart from that detail, had a country team (IE - Whyalla, Mildura etc) played state & made their way to the GF, they'd be off to Nationals, AFAIK.

Hoop Addict

You must guarantee a spot so that you can draw the whole of the country into a competitive environment. They will need extrinsic motivation.
I think it would put greater emphasis on developing your region.

We all know that The Classics is a deeper standard tournament than the Nationals, but you need to cast a wide web to gain regional development IMO.
Remember country have their own state champs which could act as qualifying or set up another Knockout type carnival.
Peter Seebohm has done wonders in Millicent, imagine if those kids could play at a nationals what it could do for the region!!

interesting point - what i saw on the weekend -

limestone in u14 G - had 2 div 1 standard guards - probably 2 comfortable div 2 players and the rest competent div 3/2 girls.

even though they won reserves - they would have struggled in state against the top 4 - nationals out of the question.
IMO

Ridiculous,

Are you saying that SA Country should be able to win a National 'CLUB' Championship.

That Limestone Coast are even eligible for a State 'CLUB' Championship is a joke.

If people at BSA weren't recruiting players for their club from that reigon, I doubt that they would be playing as a composite team.

Do you think that if kids from diferent district clubs put themsleves into the State Champs as an Allstar team BSA would let them play, your are kidding yourself.

People will disagree with me on this, I'm sure, but I just don't view nationals as a "participation level" event.

Do I think all states & territories need to be represented? Yes. Do I think all metro & country regions need to be represented? No.

I am fine with Vic Country & NSW Country having seperate allocated slots, but I don't think the WAC & SAC regions are strong enough.

If our state were to be allocated 3 positions for state champs, IMO, they should go to the 3 strongest clubs/associations in the state. I won't de-rail the thread with an explanation as to why I think Limestone should be precluded from qualifying, but if a Whyalla, Port Pirie etc team were to finsih top 3 at our state champs, then by all means, they should be allowed to go.

I just don't think we should hand SAC a team when there are most likely better teams playing in the metro comp.

Do you think the glory of going to a nationals will keep the kids interested for long when they go & compete with NT North & South for positions in the 17-20 bracket?

Dr Damage,

When was the last time you went to the 14 Nationals?

The top 8 at Nationals is a higher standard than Classics, and so is making the top 8. The number of SA and Vic teams that make Top 8 at Classics but not at nationals is far greater than those that go the other way.

Sometimes you make comment on things you really know nothing about.

The bottom 8 at nationals and the particularly thebottom 4 are not anywhere close to Classics standard IMO. Depth is exactly that!!
You cant isolate the top 8 .

In a pool at nationals we seem to always have 1 easy game. That is rare at The Classics.

On the basis of the above argument , NT and WAC should not have teams at nationals, is that what you are saying?

You guys are forgetting that it used to be that if your club won country cup than yo played in State Championships in the State division.

Broken Hill made U14 Nationals as they came second at State Champs. One of the broken hill boys was playing for Sturt and both his local club and sturt made the nationals. He played nationals for Broken Hill and they did quite well.

I don't think that SAC should get a spot regardless of the standard of basketball they are at but if a country club can knock off other metro clubs in the "STATE" champs then they should go.

Limestone should never be able to qualify for nationals.

Get rid of 14 Nationals - too much stress on everyone - It turns parents and kids vying for spots in these teams into fire breathing monsters. Then you wont have country kids coming to District Metro teams and take spots from City kids - coz the ony reason they come in U14' is to take spots for Nationals and then quit the teams. Because in U16's its all of a sudden too far to come to trainings and games. No wonder city folk are bitter.

Yeah it is a while...

(#133093) well said Anon-e-mouse. I agree get rid of the 14's nationals, replace it with a 16's prehaps. I do know of an u14's team that went to the nationals last year that had 2 country kids in the team. One of the kids was at every mid week training session (despite living well over 100kms from Adelaide), except when sick, the other kid was at , not all, but at least 7-8 mid week sessions.

Fast forward to 2007 and these kids do not turn up to mid week trainings at all, no exceptions. Now what would you say has changed? They are still both div 1 players getting heaps of court time, with one kid freely admitting to team mates that he/ she (you guess) only knows 2 out of 11 standard team plays!

I can tell you what has changed; last year the kids parents feared that if they did not show their faces at mid week trainings, they were putting their kids chances of going to the nationals in danger.

On the point of SA country teams going to the nationals, yeah sure; play in the div 1 grade and qualifiy like everyone else has to, none of this winning the reserves stuff! If you want to play reserves and win, fair enough; but tell me a reserves state champ team that gets an automatic entry into u14's nationals?

If we stopped giving kids a break because they may live 180kms form Adelaide and actually started picking teams on an equal basis, that is talent, ability to attend regular trainings, ability to grasp team concepts such as defensive and offensive plays, then I think a couple of major clubs in Adelaide would look a whole lot different.

By the way; save your "sour grapes" comments. My child went to the nationals last year and is still in div 1's today.

P.S to to my last post. When some of these kids eventually make it to ABA do they still use the excuse that they cant attend trainings because they are country folk?

See how long an ABA coach puts up with that excuse.

bitter city folk,

If you really are unhappy, move clubs!

Oh sorry, that's right, you are just full of it.

Can't think of any team from last years Nationals that are in that situation. Just a made up story by a parent who thinks that their kid is better than they really are and who is bitter because a better kid made the team.

Here we go another Maths Debate!

Well, well, WaylinSmithers!

"Can't think of any team from last years Nationals that are in that situation." Can't you?

Hey buddy; because you "can't think" it 'aint my problem. Massage your temples, concentrate, clear your mind and think a bit harder- there were not too many teams from SA in the u14 nationals last year. THINK, mate, THINK! You can count the teams on ONE hand. The team in question had 2 country kids in it, not 3 or 4 or 5 or 6, but TWO! If you still cant work it out, seeing as you seem to be an authority on the u14's from last year, then save your brain power for breathing.

In fact my child WAS part of one of the teams that made it to the nationals in Brisbane last year & in case you missed it, my child continues to be in div 1 this year. if you think I am making it up, well, thats your problem mate, not mine!

We are quite happy at the club we are at, but thanks for asking.

What I am unhappy about is these country kids waltzing into a club and getting game time, without training mid week with their team mates on a regular basis; once every couple of weeks, no problem - never, not good enough.

Bitter & twisted aside; can you answer my question regarding ABA? I am sure there would be ... maybe 1 or 2 exceptions to this; however if you want to make it to ABA, you had better get out and train with your team, as a team.

I think you sound like a country parent from the team in question who is trying to change the "facts" of what really happened in one of those u14 teams from last year.

bitter city folk,

you make me lol.
Great to see that you are happy with your club! Hopefully enough parents at your club work out who you are. Especially those in your team. I am sure that they will be able to work you out from your weak minded attitude.
Wait a second. Aren't you the one bitching about the kids in the div 1 team.
Aren't you the one bitching about the philosophy of your clucs coaches and administrators. SUre you are happy.
And your worried about ABA level! With your attitude I am sure that you wont have a problem. Especially considering your club doesn't promote their juniors into seniors but rather recruits from other clubs and interstate for ABA anyway.

Well anon or WaylinSmithers or what ever you are calling your self at the moment; at least you are starting to use that brain now.

Quite happy at our club thanks, happy at the nationals last year as well, but thanks for asking.

This thread was about making allowances for country teams to get an entry into the nationals when they are only competeing in reserve grade at state champ level. I was pointing out the free ride that I percieve some, not all country kids get at my club. Not sooking at all as it has not effected my child to date. When and if it does, I will be the 1st to let my club know what I think of the situation.

P.S. 14's nationals IS overated. You can go on about the experience, the compitition, ect, ect; in the end we are talking about 12 & 13 year olds who cant remember what they did last week let alone last year, and when all is said and done i cant see that my child is any richer for the experience, but the "old man" is certainly a lot poorer.

"P.S. 14's nationals IS overated. You can go on about the experience, the compitition, ect, ect; in the end we are talking about 12 & 13 year olds who cant remember what they did last week let alone last year, and when all is said and done i cant see that my child is any richer for the experience, but the "old man" is certainly a lot poorer."

You are really showing how ignorant you really are with this comment.

I'm sure that any kid/coach that has won one of these would beg to differ.

What about a player that will never be involved in a state team but got to a national comp and manage to win it. Do you think if we were to ask this player if it was overated that they would say yes it is.

You are now an ignorant sook

Giving SAC a team each year may keep many kids in the country instead of playing metro?

Hadn't thought of that, yes a close country association could stack players everywhere, but unlikely.

SAC has its own association, not part of BSA??? not sure there, they should have representation.

NSW Country and Vic Country have a spot, and I reckon SAC is of same std as NT TAS and Last QLD place.

It is better for all IMO

I do question an u14's nationals, and you obviously have a problem with that! Sorry about that mate.

When it is happening you tend to get all caught up in it and it is the most important thing in the world and it is a wonderful feeling. I am sure that the teams that finish 1st will remember it for all time, and so they should. I am equally sure that the teams that finish 2nd... maybe, but 3rd downwards definatly will look back on the "experiance" in a few years time and see it as just another tornament that blurrs into all the others they have attended over their short or long carreers.

At the end of the nationals, unless you finish 1st, or maybe 2nd all you are left with are a few trinkets from other clubs, some happy memories, some photos, and last but not least, a hell of a lot of bills. But hey, if you dig it, good on you. Who am I to say what you can and cant feel.

It's funny, but when you check out the bio's of players in the ABA, NBL or WNBL, NBA or WNBA, you do not find any that class the u14's nationals as their "career defining moment" or even a "memorable moment", but if you do find one, post it on here so we can all have a peek. IMO 14's is to young for a national championship and that is purley my opinion and that is what this forum is all about.

Sorry if that was a bit to harsh or realistic for you? Sorry if you are caught up in the nationals emotion, good luck to you if you are; we were as well, but you will get over it.

P.S. Sorry for being a sook as well. It has obviously hurt your feelings and I am truly sorry for that.

bitter city folk

I can sense that the achievement of your child is perhaps better (higher) than you can appreciate at the moment.
Specially if she will attend two u/14 nationals!!

In time and reflection it is the beginning of serious sport and a climb to representative sport, maybe even international level.

While it is an expensive holiday for a 12/13 year old it forms a new stage that is yet to be played on.

It has been stated that I am out of touch because I have not been to an U/14's for a while(last time was 90's), but I can still remember the excitement at making an u/14 nationals team in 1978!!

Why should SAM stand in the way?
Would not have any impact on the SAM reps at all.

Dr Damage.

Point one dont fully agree but can understand your point.

Point 2 agreed, could be.

Point 3 agreed, kind of, maybe, it is way to early to tell.

Point 4 If it was good for you, that is all that matters.

Point 5 SAM? SA Metro? Dont understand.

SAM = SA Metropolitan

(#133203) and in your opinion they have to go to the nationals to learn those things? By the way, the argument is about the 14's nationals, not 16's; try and keep on track.

What is your club teaching your child then? Makes me wonder. My child is continuing to learn all about good sportsmanship at our club; you are not telling me the only way to learn these things is by going to the under 14 nationals, are you? Really?

I guess your children will no doubt also be learning the art of petty name calling along with your mate WaylinSmithers children when someone does not agree with you?

I don't mind a good argument but if your only come back to me is to name call then you must be feeling pretty bad about yourself.

Calling me an ignorant fool & sook probably makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but it actually shows you in an ignorant light as you both dont seem to be able to get your point across without reverting to primary school like name calling.

Still I guess it goes hand in hand with my primary school spelling.

Names at '78 u/14's
Nigel Purchase
Mike Mckay
Andy Simons
David Ingham
Robert Sibley
Wayne Larkins
Andrew Gaze

Without to much thought.


I reckon each year could almost do the same 10 years later!

Oops!

Sorry anon,

bitter city folk knows more about the 14 Nationals becasue his kid has played in it 1 year.

Please refrain from proving him wrong. (insert sarcasm here)

Bitter City Folk, Forestville had two country kids go to U14 girls club nationals last year.One who lives reasonably close to Adelaide who did train mid week,your right.Sturt had at least five country kids go.WHAT YOU HAVE FAILED TO SAY IS WHICH CLUB YOU ARE AT,WHICH CLUB IS YOUR DAUGHTER A PART OF? Because if your Forestville you can only be from one family,OR ARE YOU A STURT PARENT TRYING TO STIR THE POT?OR WORSE NOT INVOLVED WITH EITHER TEAM,AND THEREFORE JUST SOME DOG WITH RABIES FROTHING AT THE MOUTH.

Bitter City Folk, Sorry, you dont actually say your still in the same age group do you! So you've moved up an age group? Tell us are you still at the same club as you were LAST YEAR?

BCF - in response to your ABL query.

It's a known fact of Country players development that the vast majority 'migrate' to the big smoke. Country are forever losing players to the city in 18's and 20's.

If a club keeps them playing ones, when they get to seniors, more often than not they'll be living in town and can train.

If a club doesn't play them in the ones, another (perhaps not as successful or talent loaded) club will and then once they get to juniors they'll play there.

Satisfied with that response?

(#133224) Point well made and taken.

(#133268)Yes Im satisfied, thanks for asking though.

It seems that a couple of things that are off limits here are country folk with any negativity attached & daring to suggest 14 nationals are not all they are cracked up to be. As I said, if you get that much out of it, good on you; however I am not convinced that it is needed in the 14's age group and no one here has put up an argument that has given one good reason why it should continue. An earlier post suggested that all it does is is create fire breathing monsters out of kids and parents, and if you re-read some of the earlier posts you probably would agree.

Name call away, Im so over it.

bcf,

You said, "(#133224) Point well made and taken."

This was in response to a post saying how much Jacob Holmes valued his Under 14 Nationals.

You then said, "no one here has put up an argument that has given one good reason why it should continue."

By your own admission you said it was a point well made, then isn't this one reason why 14 Nationals are valuable, eg players DO value it?

You are contradicting yourself!

I have been to many 14 Nationals and while I am sure some have had a negative experience, the majority speak incredibly positively about it.

Just because your experience was negative does not mean it should be scrapped. You have a right to your opinion, but I think you will find you are in the distinct minority.

The fact that it has been going for 35 years, in itself means that the majority of participants from all over Australia over a long period of time have found it to be a positive experience. If that wasn't the case it would have lasted a few years and faded into oblivion.

Right on the money!!

#389. Short answer is NO! In order to get to the club nationals your team has to finish top two at the State champs. In past years this has meant that in the girls forestville and Sturt have sent teams.
If you check the Under 16 state teams both country and metro you will see that names that appeared in the 14's are replicated in the State teams.
Though finishing one, two doesn't always mean a bucketful of talent exists within those teams, it is always a fair indicator of ability.
Sturt and Forestville's group last year had a good sprinkling of talent as did the teams before them.
The 14 nationals is a competitive highly respected tournament that has been the initial stepping stone for among others, the world's leading female player. To finish in the top half is an achievement, to finish top four is outstanding and to win it, brilliant.
Your comments are illogical which coming from a kramer is pretty bad.

Postscript to above.
There are no state teams for U14's so the Nationals is the closest thing to it.

State Sapsassa?

SAPSASA is not a BSA recognised event and the transitions to later state teams is poor. This is largely because the age cap for schools is 12 in year 7 and this is too young to accurately predict talent as the later teams names suggest. Not a lot emerges from SAPSASA.

Kramer,

I think if you compare the State teams to what is in 16s there would be a lot of similarities. Obviously with country and metro being involved, there are more kids to pick but I think you would find most kids at SAPSASSA would be involved at a State level.

Yes there are a few in 16's but the picture that emerges 18's plus suggest there is not a strong correlation.

133563, are you kidding? Yes there is a strong relation in u18s. Most of our countries top players have come out of successful junior programs. Yes, perhaps they did not play in U14 Nationals (so much can happen between those ages) but at some stage along the way the knocked out a player/or played with players they did.

Strong junior programs produce better players at national level.

What a load of crap, there are plenty of girls that have played SAPSASA and have gone on to play State basketball and higher, this year will be interesting from what I have heard there is a huge talent gap between the girls trying out, only a handfull of girls to choose from.