Surely Diamon Simpson is taller than 6'2"?

And you realise that Andre Lemanis lost more games his first two seasons with the Breakers than Clark has? And now Lemanis is defending a championship and has just been named coach of the year.

Patience mate.

The night is always the darkest and coldest just before dawn

Andre Lemanis probably coached that team better during that bad reign. He would have been intelligent with his rotations and subs, showed consistency. Took responsibility and admitted to mistakes. He wouldn't have been stubborn.

Marty is totally opposite to this and more. He doesn't care about the fans, weird rotations, deprives winning imports of minutes. Never admits to mistakes. Never confessed about the technical foul etc.

so you dont want to buy a ticket yet expect more money to be spent on the squad?

"After being a loyal fan for 10 years"

loyal fan?

Loyal fans stick with their team even after a couple seasons of unreached potential.

As a Wildcats fan I got to see first hand what you guys were capable of if you got it together, twice.

IMO the 36ers are one experienced play maker away from having a playoff team.

Im all for this thing turning around, and quite frankly i dont give a flying pig, which coach and what type/style of roster can achieve it at this point, as long as it happens! Sooooo in the interest of holding on to season tickets holders and even increasing the numbers, how about some quick swift action from the powers that be, that make me and many more a believer, that things are going to get better. And the irony of the loyal fan is, management dont usually make changes, until the loyal fans walk...

Fans wallets will always dictate movements within sporting teams.

and while you're at it sweep a broom through the whole style of presentation for game night. The inane outdated music, ridiculous chanting, competions and cheerleaders.
Change the format .
Take a punt and make it fresh.
Drop the volume down and let us here the players and the plays.
Then I will come back to purchase my season ticket.

I don't think you can really make that decision until we see a bit more of the off-season. Only 1-2 players are signed for next year.

Other than that, it's a personal decision. If you don't like going, don't bother. If you find it interesting to follow a team however it goes, then stick around.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. "I think the Clarke years maybe remembered by the Sixers just as the Robert Shaw years are remembered by the Crows"

There were plenty of calls for Lemmanis head throughout his tenure, it stopped last season lol

I got to say, that I haven't been a fan of Clarke's but can't see the point in changing him for something unproven. Also can Darryl & Co afford to pay him and Radford out and employ a Beveridge or Lemanis. I don't think so.

I'd rather spend the money on players, keep Clarke and over summer give him a personality transplant.
we may find that with one or two players the current playing list and coaches will perform much better and we won't be calling for coaches heads, CEO's heads, nor simpson to be sacked, johnson to be sacked etc.

As Isaac said wait to see the changes made, Although saying that I was very hopeful of playoff aspirations of this team when we had Williamson here.

Loyal fans stick with their team.

Not every team can win and be competitive every season, unless you're Perth. Despite my utter contempt towards their isolated pretentious fans, what they've achieved on-court with 20+ straight playoff appearances is remarkable.

hawks just had their 2nd worst season ever but you dont see fans taking to the facebook, twitter and forums calling for coach to be sacked and fans saying they are not buying tickets anymore.

do you think teams like losing? Would you rather you had no team to support? That's what will happen if every "loyal" fan reacted like your suggesting.

For every team that wins, one loses.

Get Smyth back - what harm can it do?

Boti shouldn't have got rid of him in the first place!!

Better the devil u know....

Wade Helliwell ( and not , as previously reported ,
Stephen Weigh ) is the reason.

Anon 27919....without season ticket holders supporting the club through thick and (particularly) thin then there wont be the money to change things as you suggest. However, constant change will never bring success, nor will it bring in more fans. The main reason my wife stopped going to games was because she couldnt relate to the team with the amount of changes occurring each year in personnel.

I think the Sixers have a good core to build around, they just need to get their imports right, get a bit more out of Creek and Weigh and if possible get a decent Aussie in the SG position.

I think a team of the following would be pretty competitive next season if they can stay healthy and get some continued improvement from the likes of DJ, Creek & Weigh;

C - DJ/Helliwell
PF - John Williamson(Import)/Balls
SF - Weigh/Creek
SG - Anthony Drmic/Ng
PG - Torey Thomas (Import)/Crosswell

I would stick with Clarke. We as a club need some stability. You cannot keep on calling for the coach, CEO, music man, owners & players heads. Clarke will eventually turn things around and the players like playing for him.

I honestly believe that a few changes in player personnel will make a big difference to the W column. We have a great core so we need ot focus on resigning them rather than trying to sack everyone.

All we are doing is further damaging the brand and creating mass uncertainty

I've been a Hawks season ticket holder since 1993. Don't complain about your pain.

Adelaide is a much bigger market that the Wollongong Hawks, so the fans expect as expected more. Hawks financial issues are very well documented, and unlike the 6ers, they have a coach who is a genius. To get that hawks team to be even as competitive as they were this year, including multiple double digit leads in games they did eventually lose, was a credit to them considering what they had to work with. Adelaide's issue was the roster was actually decent, young and athletic, yet they couldnt function or gel at all, have to look at the coaches on that type of issue. No matter what sport.

The roster without Crosswell and Ballinger was bottom four, but the lack of defensive cohesion for the first 3-4 months of the season reflects very poorly on the coach. The last month or so was better, but the physicality allowed by the refs after Christmas helped that too.

I think the decision on the coach should depend a lot on who is the best chance of retaining the better young players. There is definite talent on the roster and it needs to be built upon, not torn apart.

Here , I think Daly is playing footy , and Johnson to free agency.
Anyways , at the review , they'll all have a speak , and work some things out

Tonite - Sis was astonished to hear that kinda powerful singing voice coming from a guy 7foot and 20stone . Helliwellesque sounding like Caruso.

Clarke is best placed of all coaches to land Delly, Motum, Ellis ex college
assuming that all play in the NBL

300 bucks for a guaranteed seat for approx 15 games of basketball.

Winning or losing aside that seems like good pretty good value for a night out to me.

Time for a new team from SA?

ive had a season ticket for 10 years and have decided to renew mine this year. sos signed marty for three years and i will support their decision to honour that contract even though i dont believe anything will change. if no improvement is shown next season and they re sign marty then there is no way i will be renewing till he is gone.

'175:

(there were a few other interested groups at the time)

How many alternatives stepped up to the plate? Zero. Anyone can sniff around but it's a lot harder to pay up. I'm always wary of this "let someone else buy it" angle.

If anyone wants to invest or put in an offer now, I imagine they're welcome to. I haven't heard even a whisper of it happening.

The biggest problem the budget brought this season was the lack of replacement for Ballinger IMO. I'm not convinced that Gibson was going to leave the Blaze even if we matched their offer. Clarke was not a budget decision. Ninnis was, but that's a while back. Countless other issues courtesy of a budget approach are noticeable (e.g., DVD launch) but I don't think they had an impact on court.

I think Adelaide fans, paying or not, could be a little more gracious to the ownership actually keeping this team alive. In Wollongong, the Indian magnate is almost revered for his financial contribution to keep the club afloat. He sits front row and mid court. The players attend his family's events. He is thanked and mentioned profusely by staff and fans all the time.

If SOS were raking in money, by all means treat them like a pure business, but this is more charity than business. They're spending a lot more than $x00 to support the club. The owners sit in pretty regular seats. All the ones I've met have been genuinely passionate and nice guys there for the right reasons.

In Adelaide, there's a whole lot of blanket criticism (well beyond constructive or reasonable) of anyone and everything. If SOS are mentioned, it's usually "Thanks SOS, but..."

And I think it's an Adelaide thing in general. You don't have to read many 36ers articles on AdelaideNow to see a comment sulking about the 36ers, Power, Crows, Redbacks and United all struggling. Everyone on here will have read Creek being called overrated, Johnson not being as good as everyone thinks, Helliwell as shit, etc. The criticism gets pushed out well beyond what is reasonable.

If you don't enjoy the games and don't want to support the continuation of the club, don't buy tickets - that's your right.

Where I will pipe up is if I think the criticism is simply over the top, or the ownership is pitched as some easily replaceable thing. Brisbane and Canberra fans don't even have a club. I'd rather have the frustrating talking point that is the 36ers than nothing at all.

Shahin is/was friendly with at least one of the owners. I heard of interest at one point prior to the sale (maybe even a year+ before), but then heard he was not keen at all when it came down to it. If he wanted to buy up or buy in, I'm sure he would've before the brand devalued. I don't know that I'd be wanting to test the waters just in case he wanted to pick up the pieces. More likely, there'd be no team.

Yes, I have one friend involved with SOS but I otherwise haven't done any work for the 36ers in some time now. I respect them backing the club more than how they're doing it because the probable alternative is no brand and no budget.

But don't think I disagree with your original points. I think the budget approach hurts them in many ways but a tight budget at the 36ers is nothing new and not unique to SOS. The decline of the 36ers started a number of years ago.

I've said before that they should've put up more money to get Bevo. I also thought that not replacing Ballinger could ultimately hurt more than it saved. Same with keeping Marty. And I would've gone higher for Gibson and probably higher for Ervin too. Some of those decisions are biting their arse hard. But it's not my wallet that's on the line with those decisions.

I'll try again with my Wollongong/Adelaide point. Wasn't suggesting anyone should glorify SOS - they're just business guys stupid enough to throw money into basketball.

Wollongong have a budget Hawks team where otherwise they would have nothing at all. That budget means Ervin for sub-$100k then little chance of retaining him. It means holding onto Gruber even while he was an import. It means grabbing Oscar when they could. It means their top staffer has a pre-paid sim card and wears boardies (as the team joke). They may well have stuck with Showron had Ubaka not become available and wanted to play for free.

The Hawks fans get by with all that. The brand is pretty stable in the community. The fans love them.

Would Adelaide fans put up with it? With picking up discards, not sacking mediocre imports, not going for the top free agents? If SOS are running to a budget also (though not as strict at all) that forces some non-ideal decisions outside of the initial salary cap expense, should expectations be moderated?

(They spent the cap. They picked who they thought was the best coach on offer. Where it's gone wrong is the coach, the mix of players, and not replacing Ballinger - effectively playing with a cap more like the Hawks' than other teams.)

Muzz Buzz, Marty didnt land Patty and Bogut never even considered Adelaide, if he considered anyone at all.
What I'm saying is that stuff about Marty being best placed to sign guys like Delly has been proven to be a myth.
Delly will be drafted or, if not, go to Europe most likely at an NBA club's whim, Ellis will play in Perth if/when he comes back (Bevo has as much pull as Marty and WA is home for Ellis) and why would Motum want "more Marty" when so many of the St Mary's Aussies went elsewhere when they left college?
I don't buy the "young guys wanna play for Clarke" stuff at all.
As for the Shahins, the oldest brother loves the 36ers but they didn't make a fortune by investing in losing-money propositions.
We should be bloody thankful SOS exists.

"We should be bloody thankful SOS exists."

This.

Great post Isaac.

Destroying a brand or saving it from extinction?

Jackie C which Australia players that had links to Marty at the AIS have left St Marys to play in the NBL since he took the 36ers job, i'll answer that for you none.

Bogut was never ever going to play in the NBL so that is a mute point. Mills was all but a 36er until Seamus doubled his salary to be a Tiger. No matter how much you want to play for someone big money talks at days end. Mills was also encouraged by BA to play in Melbourne to get some media interest where the Tigers have failed.

I'll go again next year, my gripe while small is that they sent out the order forms already and want the cash pretty soon. Just a little thing that rubs me the wrong way considering the crap year we have had plus you have virtually no idea what the team will look like.

I understand this might be a cash flow thing but it just seems a little wrong to me.

I've had plenty to say against Clark during the year, but one thing that is apparent, is that he hasn't been supported by the SOS. Support means more than just saying your job is safe........it means providing you with the tools to get the job done. As Isaac pointed out in his excellent post above, more could have been bid for some of the proven players. Grand results will never be gained through budget finance.

My main beef with Clark is his arrogance and apparent lack of adjustment in some game situations. Rotations that have puzzled many and an uncanny ability to lose the close contest. How many games did we lose by less than 5 points? Could the cattle have gotten the job done under better direction?

All that said, renew season tickets? You bet! Perhaps if the numbers show some support the wallets may open!?

Go Sixers!

I just love the way you people blame "money " for the Sixers demise and poor showing on court. Did you not watch all year as Weigh continually took poor shot after poor shot, allowed by the coach. As soon as he got the ball it became 1 on 5, his team mates would stand and watch knowing it was gonna get jacked up again. No screens being set, horrid offensive structure that did not play to the players strengths.Simpson had a crazy shooting % but he only ever had 10 shots a game. If a player shoots 60% from the field he should be touching the ball every time down the floor. If you wanna talk money, then pay your players $$$ for every good and effective screen they set. You dont need to be a rocket science to set a screen, yet all season this team failed miserably to hit picks and get shooters open.

I've been a season ticket holder since 1985, so I've seen the odd game or two.
I can cope with losing, but I can't cope with the heartless way that the 6ers have laid down over the last few seasons. Is it, as I've suggested before, that the lack of SA players means that no-one's playing for the jumper?
Is it the fact that we have a PG who can play a whole game without giving a single assist? I'd imagine that playing as a big man would be difficult if you didn't trust your PG 's delivery.
I think the best years we've had have been when we've had standout PG's(eg Green, Mee), so perhaps the help that Clarke needs is an assistant with NBL experience who can identify talented players , because he appears not to be able to.
Will I renew my tickets? Despite all my moaning, I'm the supreme optimist so I will.

Team Player, I agree with some of that. Even without the big name player, the team shouldn't run around like headless chickens. That's on the coach and the players IMO.

On Simpson, if you go to the same guy every time, the opposition double teams. You can't give it to him too far from the basket because he has no range - defenders can just step back and wait for him. No one in the league averaged more than 18 PPG because you simply cannot go to the same guy over and over. And those are marginally superior players with superior coaching and team structure, plus stronger teammates drawing other defenders to stop them from collapsing.

Its easy to sit in the stands and say do this and do that when all you have put into the club is your season tickets. True supporters of both basketball and the 36ers will renew their season tickets because if you don't what will you have to whinge about or do. Of course that will also be blamed on the SOS.

I easily worship this group who pour money into a franchise not only for themselves but for the generations of kids and community. They don't walk away with any profit yet despite the criticism and lack of any real recognition for keeping a club alive when everyone else was happy to see it fall away.

I for one am grateful the SOS group came along and save our club!

Tornado,I dont think your gonna get drmic to leave college after 1 year to play for the 36ers, stupidest post

alexkrad, being a loyal supporter for 10 years and then giving up on your team does not mean you haven't been a loyal supporter for 10 years. If the club shows any loyal support to its fans and ticket holders, they would be providing a better product to sell and they would be listening to the people who are responsible for their existence. The club is putting a lot of effort this very minute to get renewals of season tickets and while this is happening, we end up bottom of the ladder and no information whatsoever on any changes to the following season. If you sign up now for a season ticket, what is it you are actually buying. Sorry, being a loyal supporter does not leave you open to abuse from a club who's first priority is to sell tickets ahead of offering a worthwhile product to buy.

The only excitement about this team comes from the fans. The coach is stubborn, rude and arrogant and has no time whatsoever for the supporters. The players show no excitment and support for the team whilst sitting on the bench. How many times do you see the opposition bench jumping up and down with excitement whilst our own bench look like they are participating in a funeral? If you want the fans to support you, then you have to give them good reason to.

I will probably renew my season ticket because I love the sport and hope I will be there to witness the turnaround in success. I will however not do it in a hurry because quite frankly, I am not confident at this point in time that we do have a team for the coming season.

I would say the club's first priority is keeping the 36ers in existence. As someone who's teams overspent and either merged or went broke, I would have preferred Adelaide's approach and a team in the competition long term.

36ers fans have put up with what could be described as mediocrity at best for a few years now including not cutting dud imports (Cortez Groves) too.

And fans have railed and complained like crazy at any instance like that (Groves, etc). At the Hawks, there has been far more acceptance that sometimes the club can't afford to make expensive changes. Gruber wasn't replaced while injured in the last two seasons, Showron was only replaced because Ubaka became available, Catron was kept, etc. The Hawks got a bit lucky last year and the stars aligned; plus they don't have a coach potentially hindering them.

We lost our most experienced players, both leaders. When Saville was out of the Hawks last year, you saw how much that hurt them. They went from dark horse almost leading the comp to losing nine straight or whatever it was. This year at the 36ers would be a bit like losing Saville and Campbell, and bringing in a Demos-type player as the lone replacement.

I don't think the size of the markets is relevant. My point is that I don't think many Adelaide fans could handle supporting a team run to a budget and starting behind the eight-ball each year. They spent the cap but made cheap decisions elsewhere this year and your post says they should dump the team for a couple of years. Because Adelaide has a huge chip on its shoulder?

Do you honestly think not sacking Marty Clarke to avoid some sort of payout on his final year is a sound business decision given what that signifies to the fans? "We're content with bottom of the ladder again".

What makes you assume I think that? I've said exactly that a number of times! I told the owner I know that not replacing Ballinger could bite them on the butt in terms of general fan support if losses came.

I can go to a game, see the team lose, and still enjoy watching the show, seeing how players develop or fare against varying opponents. The thing I dread is reading the game thread on here after a loss!

Well certainly admire those loyal sixer members on here and supporting SOS but if anybody thinks sticking with Clarke is going to be a good financial move for SOS are gravelly mistaken. As already been losing season ticket holders and will lose many more after watching Clarke coach for 2 years and drive passion out of the supporters where when even team gets itself in position to win this guy invents way to lose.
Ticket holders will leave in droves this guy kept
Posters said cant start again but we would anyway as Clarke Sixers have gone backwards and are dead bottom so it is a matter of start again regardless but least give us some hope and vision with a coach that bloo-- cares about us and getting results.
I and many have had passion for sixers and NBl driven out of us and want a reason to believe and enjoy again

I'm very glad that there is a SOS group. I certain that they actually are on a very steep learning curve, and I expect there to be positive signs of this in the next 2 seasons.

I'm interested to see just what Leanne will bring to the table in the review and the off season.

I'd really like Clarke to get a very good assistant coach , instead of the faux-poodle he seems to have now.

I suspect that Marty fully expected to get the same sort of immediate results as Smyth did in the NBL - and has no idea what to do now, other than more of the same.

He would certainly not have expected to get the same sort of very mediocre performance that his mentor and predecessor at the AIS ( Frank Arsego ) achieved with the cannons/hunter, breakers, gunners and slingers.

I'm certain that given Marty's personality ( small mans' overcompensation disease ) , that he is in desperate need for some significant guidance - but is totally blind to this fact.

I like Marty as a person, but he certainly does have the old school BA and AIS "delusions of adequacy" attitude welded on to him in respect of basketball matters.

Doubledoubs, Drmic was an example of the type of player to fill that role.....however, some players have been known to return to the NBL after 1 year of college so it may not necessarily be out of the equation.

Thank you for your pessimistic view and idiotic comment though!

It must be easier to read game thread after loss this year Isaac as game posts are down to around half they were 2-3 years ago.
Whilst I really feel for SOS owners left, it is my strong believe not making hard decision now will hurt them much more.

All this aside, a bunch of silver seats have been re-classified to gold, and had price hikes.
We'll pay it, but it seems a bit OTT
At the end of the day SOS did stand up, so hats off to them.

not an expensive option to cut an import you say
So lets assume dud import is on 150k and gets 1/3 of the way into the season.
The club has to shell out 100k to send that guy home and doesn't get the 15k agent fee they paid back either.
Then has to find another player and pay his relocation costs ( say 5k)
Has to pay that player the balance of the season and because you cut a dud you want a good one so you pay a bit more to get the best you can get and that costs you 120k to see out the season.

so you have just spent an easy 125k or 13% of the salary cap on one player for 2/3 of the season.

BJF if not one of owners then close to them and good at numbers then do your numbers if keep Clarke because your income will drop dramatically .
No you may not be able to afford this thing Goorg. or similar but other cheap alternatives along with a local name will send some positives out there.
Team led by DJ and Diamon gave us chances but Clarke invented ways to lose.

Anon -

No, I'd actually rather not read about ownership arse-kissing. I'd rather have a discussion about the games and club without any ridiculous extremes (x is god, x is shit).

Saville was top (or close to it) for +/- across the season last year. He and Campbell clearly declined this year and that's one reason for the Hawks' change in fortunes.

Like I said, the Hawks could only afford to replace Glover because Ubaka offered to play basically for free (or whatever the NBL permitted) and Gordie wanted to trial him for next season. Don't underestimate how tight their ship is.

More to anon,

I'm not sure we're disagreeing quite as much as you think. I suspect you'd agree with me on these, even if you chose stronger wording:

- going cheap (not replacing Ballinger, not spending up on a PG, not going higher to appease Bevo, etc) doesn't help the club
- winning back fans is likely to be more expensive than spending now to keep them
- whether he comes good down the track, right now a lot of fans have lost faith in Clarke and it will probably cost the club season ticket holders
- even with a battling Ballinger and Crosswell, the team was sub-par

My points beyond that are:

- people in Adelaide are serial complainers, across all sports and even beyond. Another club can underspend, can take budget options, and the fans can strive to see the positives and support what they do have. I saw it in Wollongong first-hand after a horrible result (that would've had fans booing in Adelaide and begging for imports to be sacked) and I've heard the same from fans of other clubs.

- even now, 4k+ are paying to watch basketball after a year of Marty and last year's result, even with Ballinger unreplaced, and so on. Some might complain a whole heap, but many stick by the team. I wouldn't hope that the team be shelved and put up for sale. The brand might be a little soggy, but the second things come together, fans will come back. We saw it when Hodge was in town and for Smyth's last game. That's a good chance with a team around. You risk no chance at all if no Shahin or anyone else decides they want to throw money away too. The money in and around the club who stepped up as SOS (Lewis, Finlay, Ng, etc) - is there another batch of those guys who didn't get involved the first time? When Groves bought the team, the other option not yet named was hot air - I have friends calling debt collectors on them for shrapnel.

I'd like to see a nicer website, a competitive team, a club that makes changes when it should and cops a loss to run a DVD launch because it's one of those "little things" that keep customers happy. But I'll support them even when they don't.

Anonymous #356273
I don't like Anon posters that you can't identify by a pattern in what they say because you don't know which one they are from any number of Anon posters, but that was one hell of a good post you made. How true it is. Whilst we as fans are all greatful to SOS for allowing the existence of an Adelaide based team, it is still a business that relies on people buying the product (ticket buyers and sponsors). The product has been poor particularly in the last 3 years. Fans continually attending games in good numbers could be percieved as being satisfied with the product they are buying and SOS don't need to make any changes. That is not correct because there is a pride in being a 36ers fan but there is no pride in continually being bottom of the ladder. Whilst SOS are financing the club to keep it in existence, they also have a responsibility in maintaining that pride that comes with the brand.

As I said previously, I will continue to buy my season ticket for now. Whilst enough is enough, I have not reached that point just yet but it is coming if the next few years continue the same. I personally would have preferred to see no team at all in Adelaide since SOS took over and the 36ers brand could have been a memory of a successful sporting club. The brand in the last few years has continued to devalue and if the club folded right now, the memory of the club would not be a good one. The only respectful thing to do now to maintain pride in the brand is cut your losses, get rid of who is responsible for the poor results and spend the money to make this club successful again. If you build it, they will come.

I also think contracts need to be carefully worded. As a club, you can't put yourself in a position where you have to payout non performers. Non performers in any workplace means you get the sack. There is no payout for getting the sack.

Attendance is only one portion of revenue. When you are losing money the ability to replace a player comes down to owners putting their hands deeper in their pockets, and if they are already stretched that could mean putting the club's existence at risk.

As for the Hawks, their crowds are a much higher ratio of their town's population than the 36ers. No doubt Adelaide fans expect more, that's a good thing in some ways, but when trying to bring a club out of a multi-year (6?) mire I think that needs to be tempered a little.