Anonymous
Years ago

NSW Metro win both golds at 18s nationals

NSW Metro won by the Mens & Womens gold medals at the u18s nationals in perth.

Girls did it easy over QLD south who shot poorly.

Boys ground it out against a talented vic metro team.

So 3 in a row for metro in the 18 men, 3 straight golds for mark watkins

peoples thoughts on whether they should have won? what other states played poorly, that should have done bettter?

Topic #28140 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why is it that at these tournaments, everyone shoots the ball really poorly? Across the board. No wonder we struggle at senior international level. We cant shoot it!

Reply #359270 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Using the link to LIVE STATS I was enjoying every minute of the games I could follow from Victoria, what a great system, 30 second updates and all the stats you would want...

Congratulations to all the teams who participated, well done to the medal winners and in particular to the Vic Country men and women just missing out on making semi finals and ending up in 5th - 6th position games.

Really looking forward to the next Nationals being the under 16's in Tamworth in July...

Hard to beat the weight of numbers in Melbourne and Sydney, especially when we consider how far the country teams travel for their training and the difficulties they have to overcome compared to their city/metro team mates.

Reply #359271 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Can anyone tell us more about Nicholas Duncan and Mirko Djeric, seeings as they appear the best players on the gold medal winning team.

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,,,,,  
Years ago

well done blues -can never recall a NSW double header win

Reply #359296 | Report this post


fstos  
Years ago

Anon 359270. Great point about the shooting. It is the biggest weakness across all levels of basketball and does look to be getting even worse from what I see. My take on this is that the big push is for the best athletes and at juniors at any level you can have great success with tall athletic teams controlled by a smart(poor shooting)PG. You just press the crap out of team and run,drive, slash and rebound. All great until you get caught up in half court games at the very highest levels and the inability to knock down shots bites you in the arse.It does not hurt at Nations so much because everybody is in the same boat and most great shooters probably lack the size or athleticism and have been discarded.
IMO much more focus needs to be placed on shooting at the younger levels.I am just not sure how this should be done and if we should not start weeding most men under 6'8"or so and most women under 6'0" out of any elite programs if they are not good shooters.That would put to focus on shooting and the onus on athletes to improve. Imagine if we dumped the athletes who couldn't shoot the way we now dump the shooters who are not athletes. Do you think the focal point of rep junior coaching andpractisee would now be much more pointed towards shooting. Athletes will always be athletes but it is very hard to turn a poor shooter at 18 or so into a great one. To much time spent on winning at rep level and not enough on technique. I have been there and was as guilty as the next personmeasuringg success in the W column. This needs to change. If not we just end up with a bunch of Mitch Creeks and while it is great to have the athletes it just wont get it done when big games are on the line.

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HO  
Years ago

There will be a review at the BV office this week. It won't do anything, but they'll have a review.

Reply #359319 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

BV will review and the reappoint same coach,s and they will select the same players and the ordained will remain the same.
There will be lots of happy Victorians....the only ones that support Vic metro are those actually in the team.All others like to sit back and laugh at failure due to being burnt by the system.I know that the Vic team is preached to that it is them vs the rest with a war like mentality...Everyone else in the state and country is against them.
Old saying here...Don't pick injured players who have excuses for not trying out and Tall players are a warm and fuzzy feeling when you walk into the stadium but can they actually play?

Reply #359329 | Report this post


nix35  
Years ago

interesting game congrates to NSW,
question: what did the boys that did not get on the court in the final learn ?

Reply #359345 | Report this post


Greg  
Years ago

Mark Watkins is a top development coach, one of the best who has ever worked in basketball. NSW juniors are very fortunate. He was also the best NBL assistant but just couldn't make the next step.
Congrats to the boys, huge achievment.

Reply #359350 | Report this post


Latrentis  
Years ago

This will be a big loss for Vic as they were the favourites weren't they? Looking at shooting percentage it appears Vic struggled from outside? But its hard to tell unless you were actually at the game.
Well done to NSW for taking out the double.

Reply #359365 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

win under 12 classic because you're bigger than everyone else and don't teach your players how to shoot.

team fades into obscurity.

Reply #359370 | Report this post


Luke  
Years ago

^^^^ pretty much sums up junior bball

Reply #359379 | Report this post


anonand  
Years ago

give me a team of average size kids that can play AND shoot anytime over a team of talls with minimal skill

Reply #359380 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Lots of negativity around out there regarding stereo types and the athlete versus the player...

The same arguement is often spoken about footballers these days, what a performance by Jobe Watson, a footballer through and through, not so much an athlete turned into a footballer!

Conversly, basketball is what it is and you can't tell me that coaches all over the world don't want tall players, especially if they show some potential...

There it is, that word (POTENTIAL), those of us that see taller kids grow up and develop slower or those who suddenly shoot up in their teens understand that they develop their hand - eye skills a little later and that is often overlooked...

NITP programs focus so much on shooting these days, maybe we need to understand that coaches at the elite level know what they are doing and accept that you can't have a team of 6 foot shooters up against a team of 6"8' players, they will not always win regardless!

Reply #359396 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Lots of negativity around out there regarding stereo types and the athlete versus the player...

The same arguement is often spoken about footballers these days, what a performance by Jobe Watson, a footballer through and through, not so much an athlete turned into a footballer!

Conversly, basketball is what it is and you can't tell me that coaches all over the world don't want tall players, especially if they show some potential...

There it is, that word (POTENTIAL), those of us that see taller kids grow up and develop slower or those who suddenly shoot up in their teens understand that they develop their hand - eye skills a little later and that is often overlooked...

NITP programs focus so much on shooting these days, maybe we need to understand that coaches at the elite level know what they are doing and accept that you can't have a team of 6 foot shooters up against a team of 6"8' players, they will not always win regardless!

Reply #359397 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Don't usually stutter, sorry......

Reply #359398 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Nick duncan is an outstanding player & a great kid. Tough & overall an outstanding competitor.
Mirko is possibly the best junior in nsw at the moment great talent, relentless work ethic.

Congrats to mark watkins 3 straight gold medals.

As 4 the couple of dnps, they learnt about being part of a team & making sacrifice for success, there is no I in team or success. Throughout the week all players from nsw metro played decent mins, just not in the final.

As for vics poor shooting percentage.... I would struggle to have seen better defensive units than the nsw metro teams over the last 3 years, outstanding competitors, well drilled & understanding what it takes to succeed.

Reply #359400 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"Mark Watkins is a top development coach, one of the best who has ever worked in basketball"

Mark Watkins is a pock faced jerk! Only moved to NSW to move out of his parents house. Has had many an incident where he has not known what to do when handling junior players, and the intricacies involved in doing so.
As usual people think he is wonderful because he wins. Gets handed the best teams and always has.

Reply #359402 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon359402
i suspect your bitter about something
lets face it either way nsw metro has won 3 straight golds at the u/18s nationals & mark happened to be the coach.
well done to the kids & obviously someone/s been developing some good talent in NSW metro
its just good to see someone other than Vic metro win lol

Reply #359405 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Indeed, bitter is one way of describing it!
Bottom line is that he is a rat who wouldnt know the meaning of loyalty (or compassion) if he was sent back to primary school to learn it.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I meant tall kids at Under 12s that don't grow physically (and don't get developed) and therefore don't go anywhere.

Reply #359407 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes it kind of sucks to be really tall in u12/14s and then end up by 18s being guard height and completely incapable of handling a basketball. Lucky if you start off short, develop your skills and then shoot up late! Every kid should be given the chance to develop all skills but those early talls are just used and dumped later when they everyone catches up and they are crap.

Reply #359414 | Report this post


nix35  
Years ago

Very close game vic metro won 3 of the 4 qrts, nsw lucky 3 pt shot that gave them a break

01:36 9, D. Pitcher, shot 3pt made 45-41 4


Reply #359415 | Report this post


finals688  
Years ago

Congratulations to NSW Metro Women's U/18 coach Justin Brayley ex country Vic junior. Good to see that varied pathways to coaching positions can lead to success and a break from predictable formulas and pathways. Look forward to watching his progress in the future.

Reply #359416 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

3 straight final losses for Vic Metro.

All well and good to beat NT by 70+ but when the heat is on they crumble.

It's a trend that has happened for the past 3 years.

NSW has taken over.

Reply #359417 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Congratulations to all medal winners and indeed the NSW teams did a great job. The coach for Vic Metro was in his first year as a head coach so not sure about the post regarding same coaches , same kids.

Watkins won two of these games in the past 3 years by 2pts, 5pts and 1 point on the back of very good teams, he deserves his 3 wins and his kids are well drilled and patient.

To say NSW has taken over may be a little early as if I am not mistaken, Vic Metro dominate the name on the sheild by a handy margin in the last 20 years.

Reply #359444 | Report this post


nix35  
Years ago

The coach for Vic Metro, by using all his players shows he has confidence in their development into the future.
and i noted that 5 nsw players took very few shots for the game.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

at the end of the day its about results & NSW metro has 3 big golden results lol

Reply #359456 | Report this post


Juno  
Years ago

What has how much court time got to do with confidnece for the future?

That is just plain dumb IMHO. It means he thought they could contribute now. And given the result, looks like he was wrong.

Shows that 1 coach got it right. This is about winning, not deevelopmeent. Development happens at practice, go read up of your skill aquisition analysis.

Reply #359458 | Report this post


nix35  
Years ago

pls refer to Mark Watkins is supposedly a top development coach, one of the best who has ever worked in basketball. NSW juniors are very fortunate.

court time under pressure is what develops you not looking on or being a passenger or maybe no depth in your team for the future of basketball

Reply #359461 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Anyone who has coached junior basketball in a tournament that means something, like State Champs or Nationals, or even less impressively credentialled tournaments out there knows that when you get to the finals it is a different ball game.

As a coach you are damned if you do and damned if you don't!

Try to do the diplomatic thing and give all your team court time and get it wrong by losing the final and you will be criticised, keep a couple on the bench and win and again you can be treated unfairly...

Yes, give them all a run as best you can during preliminary games and in situations where they can gain experience, even during tight situations when the opportunity arises.

Then make sure they watch from the bench to learn from the more accomplished players, then make sure you communicate what you are looking for and what every player is expected to do and their roles within the team...

Then at least you can feel you have done your best regardless of the result!

Those who comment without the experience of coaching in such circumstances should qualify that their opinion is not fact, just their opinion, I think!

Reply #359466 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hmmm. I remember an U14' s nationals GF maybe 6 or 7 years ago between Sturt and Dandenong which Sturt won. Only 6 Sturt players saw good minutes in that game and I think some of that was due to foul trouble for one of their starting five. Dandy went deeper into their bench but lost. So who got it right and did the Sturt kids who never made the court in the GF have their futures compromised?

Reply #359467 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Yeah, coaching is a tough gig no matter which way you look at it!

Here is a quote once given to me:

"Sport does not build character as much as it reveals it!"

That goes for coaches, players, parents, spectators and officals I'm sure...

Reply #359471 | Report this post


nix35  
Years ago

National men's head coach Brett Brown said
"There is always a balance of trying to develop young talent and putting together our best team,"

We believe that the addition of our talented young players will not compromise the standard of our group. This opportunity is rare. We are anxious to watch our future players " compete " not just watch our present core group of senior players where we can better assess their future potential. This situation is a 'win-win' for our overall national program."

Reply #359473 | Report this post


Juno  
Years ago

And I bet he does not play all 12 guys in every game at the Olympics.

He means that they will play some in lesser games when it doesnt matter and will sit when it does.

Development occurs at trainings.

Reply #359477 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

But Brett hasnt got parents ringing him or going on forums and bagging him when he doesnt play their kid!

Reply #359481 | Report this post


nix35  
Years ago

think bigger beyond the win at home.

Reply #359486 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

seriously wake up

a grand final of a national championship is not about development, its about getting the job done
wacco did that, hes done it 3 times in a row with talented groups sure.
but at the end of the day a final is a final and you gota go for the win.

if he didnt play those kids all week, it would be a different story, he maanged the group well as did Justin with the metro girls and when it canme to crunch time their big game players made big plays and go the GOLD.

seriously cant believe ppl think all players should play in a final of a national championship. they get developed through practice, trial games & round games, and they get to be part of a championship winning team

Reply #359487 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Congrats to NSW metro on the win in 18's men.
Could not agree more with the post a fair way above about recent 18 Vic metro mens teams crumbling, especially this year when they where clearly the most talented team.
Without pointing out any individuals on that team but maybe its a lack of competitiveness and ability to deal with pressure?

The age group of Vic kids not too long gone of Hadziomerovic, Drmic and those kids never crumbled like that, they where tough and stepped up at all times!

Reply #359512 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

^^^^^
Maybe it's because the vics didn't have the "best junior development coach ever" coaching them.

Reply #359516 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Come on guys, Dante hits the 3 pointer with 3 seconds on the clock and wins the game for Vic Metro and we are all singing his praises...

55 points each and NSW hit a free throw so a time out is called with 3 seconds on the clock and Vic met is down by a point!

That's why we love the game, close finish with a shot at the end that could give you the grand stand ending!

Give these boys all some credit, they played their hearts out and gave all they could, you don't play 6 preliminary games and two finals if you crumble at the first real test and I don't call a one point loss a crumble, really...

Reply #359541 | Report this post


nix35  
Years ago

Well said Bear, it shows we are doing the right thing with the development of basketball against fierce opposition from other sporting codes.

Reply #359550 | Report this post


nix35  
Years ago

see comments by Tassieballer in why do nz play in our championship.

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Tassieballer  
Years ago

Yes and I was watching the grand final and would in no way say that the Vic boys crumbled. Infact they had control most of the game. NSW stayed in touch with a couple of 3s that were a bit lucky and an outstanding game by Nicholas Duncan (I think No. 7). It was a very entertaining game to watch with excellent shooting by the Vic's in the first half then NSW in the second. I would say the boys on the bench were more than happy with the win by their reaction, you have to win the whole tournament to get the medal not just the final game. Even players that get injured in earlier games have still have their input. An excellent effort by all involved they should be congratulated.

Reply #359616 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Nick Duncan had an awesome game for NSW looking at LIVE STATS, I think his overall game result was a +20 with Ben Simmons being one of the stand outs for Vic.

Most of the National team going to China will be made up from these two teams, rightly so...

It appeared that NSW relied more on their 3 point game overall than Vic when you check their previous games and sometimes that is what either hurts you or keeps you in it, especially in close games like this one.

Wish I could have seen the game, I wouldn't think a DVD of it was available, now that would be great to get ones hands on......!

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