Nathan of Perth
Years ago

Wildcats sign Erik Burdon

The Perth Wildcats have signed South Australian guard Erik Burdon on a one-year deal ahead of the 2013/14 NBL season.

Burdon has been playing for Mt Gambier Pioneers in the SEABL where he was spotted by Wildcats scouts and then tested by 'Cats coaches in Perth before the decision was made to sign him.

The 28-year-old stands at 188cm, weighs 82kg and is rated as a one-point player under the NBL's points cap system.

Burdon says it’s a dream come true to get an NBL call up.

"It’s very exciting and it’s great to now be a part of the Perth organisation. It’s something I’ve been working towards for a long time now, I spent time at Adelaide in a development role but I’ve kept working at it, and it’s finally happened," said Burdon.

“My outside shooting is definitely my strength, so if I can help stretch the floor for the big guys and the penetrators, I’ll be able to add plenty of value to this team.”

Wildcats head coach Trevor Gleeson said Burdon will fill an important role in the roster.

“We need more shooters from the perimeter, we have enough talent to get to the basket, but we need to stretch the defence and Erik is one of the best shooters in the SEABL. I went to Mt Gambier to see him play and his ability to catch and shoot is a piece of the puzzle we need at the Wildcats,” said Gleeson.

“He will come off the bench as a pinch-hitter, to break up a zone defence or when we need a three-point shooter on the floor. He’s a little bit older for a first-time NBL player, and we will teach him a lot of things, but one thing we won’t need to teach him is how to shoot.”

After playing with North Adelaide in his local league, Burdon was picked up by the 36ers where he spent three years as a development player and one season as a training player. Following this stint, he plied his trade with Mt Gambier in the SEABL where his game continued to develop.

This season he has helped the Pioneers to a top-of-the-table position in the South division where he has averaged 17.3 points while shooting at 43.3 per cent from the field and almost 40 per cent from the three-point line.

Burdon is the seventh player signed on the Wildcats roster for the 2013/14 NBL season, alongside Shawn Redhage, Damian Martin, Matt Knight, Jesse Wagstaff, Greg Hire and Mathiang Muo.

ERIK BURDON

DOB: 28 March 1985

Birth place: Adelaide, South Australia

Height: 188cm

Weight: 82kg

Wildcats Playing Number: 41

Recruited from: Mt Gambier Pioneers - SEABL

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BearCat2  
Years ago

Great news.
Too bad he had to wait until 28 to get a proper gig

Reply #431351 | Report this post


Mark  
Years ago

So the Wildcats looking at something like:

Matt Knight / Tom Jervis (rumoured on Twitter)
Shawn Redhage / Jesse Wagstaff
Greg Hire / Mathiang Muo
Import / Erik Burdon
Damian Martin / Import 1/2

As much as I would have liked to see a Dunigan type 4/5 import, this may prove to be a more balanced team.

And given the above release I take it Burdon is more of a 2 than a point guard?

Reply #431353 | Report this post


Jake  
Years ago

Would have liked to have seen Burdon at the 36ers instaed of Teys. I actually would have preferred him last year over SC

Reply #431355 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Jake, same and same.

Happy to see Burdon get a contract. When he did suit for the 36ers, I thought he worked hard and showed composure.

Reply #431359 | Report this post


Ballin Fan  
Years ago

1 point player?

great value shooter for just 1 point. and you just know he will shoot well in Adelaide.

Reply #431362 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Great signing, glad that Erik gets his shot, i too agree with Jake and Isaac in i would have liked to see him as a 36er.

Wildcats are looking strong, if i were them id sign a import sg/sf and a import pg/sg.

Once fully fit go with a line up of

Knight/Jervis
Redhage/Wagstaff
Import/Hire
Import/Muo
Martin/Burdon (the import actually plays pg, Burdon at sg)

Would be very well balanced line up.

Unless they actually do get Dunnigan which seems unlikely i wouldnt go for a pf/c as i think Knight, Redhage, Wagstaff have the big spots covered.

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Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Dunnigan has signed on with a club from South Korea, so he's not likely to be an option anymore.

Hopefully Wagstaff will focus more on scoring and less on gamesmanship this year...

As a 1pt player he seems like a very handy pickup.

Reply #431367 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Would prefer to have Hire and the import in a 6th man scoring punch role off the bench

Reply #431368 | Report this post


Double Clutch  
Years ago

About damn time Eze got a contract. Taken far too long.

Classic example of the type of player who the league's contraction from 13 to 8 teams really hurt. Would have been a much better option than SC last year.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

took their time anouncing it! great for eze well deserved and great bloke. He certainly should have been at adelaide last year instead of SC and also this year instead of Teys but glad he gets his shot at it. Congrats eze

Reply #431376 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Good luck to him as a pinch hitter off the bench


Does this hurt the pioneers come finals?

Reply #431378 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

"and you just know he will shoot well in Adelaide."

- I hope so, because it seems like shooting well at Perth Arena is impossible

Reply #431399 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

awful beard

Reply #431415 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

I have a lot of time for Eze and I hope he has a great season with his only "below average" games against the Sixers

Reply #431418 | Report this post


Swoop1  
Years ago

Surprised Benny Lewis hasn't been signed up yet. Is appealing his rating at 5. Seems like an excellent defender and could definitely add some wow factor on offense. Blew up in a couple of games last season and was definitely under utilised by Anstey

Reply #431431 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

A 5-pt player wouldn't have fit in with the Wildcats available points profile (one of those problems with the points cap where people who have a fiddly number or a lot of competition don't have the option of taking a cheaper contract in a crowded player market in order to just get some pro court time - but anyway).

Really good to read the responses to Burdon, hope he adds some scoring (and some watchability) to the Cats this season.

Reply #431432 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I'm not sure that's a problem with the points cap. Lewis has had plenty of chances and hasnt produced or significantly improved. It's good to see players like Gleeson, Burdon, Teys, Bruce, Odigie etc getting a chance instead.

Reply #431434 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

paul,

It was for us - a 5pt player would have screwed all of our plans. We had the points, but it meant we dipped below 20pts for the two imports.

It's one of the little quirks of any system like this with some values arbitrary, some not. Fitting players into the points cap is like playing tetris.

Reply #431457 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

For me that's not an issue with the system, it's just how the Wildcats decided to operate within that system.

Reply #431458 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Maybe Bennie Lewis is the best example of the bad things about the points cap, and neither is David Barlow as has been suggested previously. But a proven decent player like Rhys Carter can't find a gig this year because of his rating so the NBL loses him. Its having an adverse effect on the quality of the league. Parity is one thing but at the expense of losing decent players...its starting to make less sense.

Reply #431463 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

paul, you can't simply turn around and say well that's just how you approach the system when what we're doing is following the incentives. The points system provided an incentive to leaving that guy on the shelf and no amount of contract wheedling or discounting from that guy would get him a spot on a team. The points cap produces anomalies where the jigsaw pieces don't line up comfortably.

And yes, anyone in the 5-8pt category becomes a sticky proposition when dealing with the 10 into 70 cap, in large part because the rating tops out at 10pts. Because you can have someone who, in terms of points, would otherwise be worth considerably more than 10pts, and still have him only a few points more than the likes of Carter.

A Cedric Jackson or Lisch would have been worth 15-20pts if the rating didn't cap at 10. Thus you are incentivised to go for the 10pt and squeeze out the 5-8pt player.

Means we lose a number of solid, experience players who could/should be forming the league mainstay.

Reply #431465 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Can't tell if real Situation or trolling.

I assume Rhys Carter has a job in Sweden lined up getting paid the same or more, in an easier league, living in his pregnant wife's home country.

Reply #431468 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Why would you think that comment was trolling?
He has previously stated to me that the points cap has caused him grief.
Yes, he has a gig in Sweden and of course a pregnant wife does change things but to have no Australian offers on the table because of the points cap means it isn't necessarily have the right impact.

Reply #431475 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Well, he said he left because he didn't get an offer.---


FORGET THIS FIXTURES RELEASED

Reply #431476 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Sorry Nathan, but what you are effectively saying is because Perth cant sign whoever they want there is an issue with the points system. That is the purpose of the points system!

If the Wildcats want Knight, Redhage, Martin, Wagstaff and two imports on their roster they have to make some sacrifices at the other end of the roster.

The lack of teams is a much bigger issue for players, if there was another team or preferably two you can guarantee Rhys Carter would be in demand. Carter is a case of demanding good money in Sweden because he is a star there and not so much here because he is a mediocre player at this level.

Reply #431505 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I would also guess asking price is also an issue,

I dont think Points cap can ever be blamed, its usually 1 of 2 things, neither related to the points cap.

1. Asking price too high/can make more overseas, power to you, but dont blame the points cap, i bet if Rhys or any overseas based Aussies dropped their asking price to say min salary they would all get gigs in the NBL, with the points cap in place, therefore points cap not the issue.

2. Your form hasnt earnt you a spot. Bennie Lewis is an example of this, he had enough opportunity to prove himself over the past few years imo, so clubs have opted to give other guys a shot eg Odigie at the Tigers, Burdon at the Wildcats, i dont think the points cap really played into those decisions with most players. Even if the Wildcats could fit Lewis in the points cap i dare say they would have still picked Burdon. I guess there are a few fringe guys like Lewis and Daly who are around the mark and cant get in, but im not sure its the points cap keeping them out either. I guess if the NBL can add a few more teams in the next couple of years that will remove this problem as guys like Lewis and Daly will either be in the league or definatly not seen to be good enough. Could be a little harder than usual atm with a small amount of roster spots, but again i dont believe its the points cap keeping them out, it probably doesnt help them get a shot at the same time. Most teams in the league have guys in there positions off the bench with similar if not more points, so the guys who were signed were simply chosen ahead of guys like Daly and Lewis. Unfortunate for them but not really the points cap fault. FWIW id love to see both guys get back in, i just dont beleive its the points cap 100% keeping them out, wouldnt help them in some cases though i suppose.

I think its a bit of a weak excuse to blame the points cap, either adjust your asking price down or keep working hard on your game and knock on the door for selection year after year and hopefully someone gives you a shot.

The points cap is needed imo, improves parity. Without it the Wildcats would have likely let Trueman go and kept Dunnigan/similar import when Knight returned from injury, which makes the rich even stronger, and lessens the chance of the 'not so rich' teams to compete with them.

Reply #431509 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

paul, it's not an issue of "who we want" its that there is a band of points ratings which are inherently a drag on player's value and employement prospects, because just above them is a points ceiling that makes 10pts more attractive on a points value.

Reply #431517 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Anonymous -

Actually, your point # 1 is exactly what I'm saying is impossible. They CAN'T just drop their asking price, because you can't simply drop your points value. When 1 or 2 additional points can mean that you, completely independent of your own worth/value, tip the club past the space where they can hire an import, you become an intrinsically bad deal and no amount of wheeling or dealing on asking price will save you.

If every club completely rebuilt their roster each year that may not be a concern, but when you have irregular points amounts each year, it exacerbates the problem.

Reply #431518 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Sorry, disagree with you again. If they were valuable players clubs would choose to make room for them, as they have with other players of their rating. Lewis is out of the league because he hasnt produced over a number of years.

The points system encourages teams to recruit new players rather than keep ahold of low level bench players, but only Lewis has stopped himself from developing his game to something more than that.

Reply #431522 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What im meaning though is if they drop there asking price they would get signed at there current points value, therefore not needing it to be reduced.

A guy like Carter, could easily simply ask for what his NBL market asking price, say the average salary of a 6th-8th man in the NBL and id say he would be likely to be picked up at his current points value. The issue with most guys who have played overseas is they can make alot more money overseas and NBL clubs cant/wont match the $$ you ask.

Eg if Carter was a 5 point player and asked say $40k id say he would likely to be picked up, but i dare say he would demand closer to $100k as he can make it in Sweden.

If Carter was a 1 point player and still asked for $100k or more id doubt anyone would pick him up in the NBL, due to the asking price, not the points value. As i doubt he is seen to be worth $100k or more in the NBLs economy as he is a strong back up, not a starter/star.

IMO he is worth around 50-80k in the NBL, but probably makes at a guess 100k plus in Sweden so choses to play in Sweden, power to him and good on him for getting the gig in Sweden, but its not the points cap preventing him a NBL gig. That fact wouldnt change if he was rated a 1 or a 10, its the $$ overseas keeping him out of the NBL. Just as it is Joe Ingles and all the other Boomers, you could rate Ingles a 1 or scrap the points cap he still wouldnt play NBL as he makes the NBLs whole salary cap overseas, and teams would sign most of the Boomers guys as 10s anyway, so the points cap is never to blame for guys going overseas.

A guy like Tom Daly is an example where the points cap didnt help, but its not the whole reason he hasnt got a NBL gig right now,

eg he trialled with the Kings they could have signed him ahead of Gleeson or Armour without any issues of the points cap but they chose not to sign him, so obviously the Kings think the other guys they signed are better, its just the way it is.

Im a Daly fan and would have loved to see him in the 36ers the last couple of seasons but even when he was a 1 other guys got put ahead of him, so i think its just the way it is, coaches are signing guys ahead of Tom and others regardless of his points rating. The 36ers could have signed say Dorsey and Daley ahead of Frye and Teys within the the points cap, but chose to sign Frye and Teys as they were viewed to be the better players. I think Tom just needs to keep working hard, if he doesnt get a spot anywhere train with the 36ers or a NBL team as much as he can and hope the next time a spot opens up he gets picked, as he is right on the cusp.

I think if we had an extra team or 2 a guy like Tom would get a gig, so i think adding an extra team or 2 would take this issue away not scrapping the points cap.

But at the end of the day the NBL is only going to add teams if its viable to them and the owners not just to keep guys on the fringe in the league, as basically all the best Aussie players are in the NBL or have higher paying gigs overseas or in college for the younger ones. No top liner is ever missing out due to the points cap. Remember Wade Helliwell was the 36ers 9th/10th man a couple of years ago and was rated a 9, so if teams want you they will sign you almost regardless of your points.

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Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

But paul, that's the point.

They're NOT valuable players, they're 5-8pt players. Under this system, they're less valuable than 3pt players, because they don't benefit you much more than a college graduate and yet are significantly less useful than the 10pt players you can get with only a couple points more.

A system that keeps encouraging teams to recruit new players and then ditch anyone who doesn't become a star is a system that is not providing a meaningful career path to prospective Australian pro-ballers.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Which 5-8 player is out of the league as a result of the points cap.

With Rhys Carter and Daniel Dillon im pretty sure its NBL Money v Overseas money, nothing to do with the points cap, keeping them out of the league. Same with most boomers guys.

Off the top of my head i cant think of any other 5-8 point players who are not in the league, and if there are any i bet its either money or lack of form preventing them to be signed, ie you could make them all 1s and none would play NBL.

Reply #431535 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

**which 5-8 point players are out of the league?

Reply #431537 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Nathan, 5-8 point players can be very valuable. Bennie Lewis wasnt.

Reply #431540 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Valuable in terms of their talents, yes, but their effective value get reduced by the presence of a points ceiling just a little above their head.

Not as cap friendly as college or promoted DP players, not as point-for-impact friendly as a strong 10pt player.

You get someone like a Jackson or a Lisch who if you extrapolated the point system would be a 12-15 pt player, and you getting more bang for buck by sticking with a mix of rookies and stars. Effectively free cap points.

The system is deeply flawed as anything except a blunt-force trauma method of keeping the salary cap policed to stop financial suicides. Which it does quite well. But in terms of creating competition parity or producing anything like a fair system for players, I don't like it. The arbitrary nature of the system is the chief virtue and vice.

Reply #431543 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Rush, Henry, Bartlett, Lewis, Carter, Bruce, Dann, the Cedars, to name a few. You can make a case for some of those guys not being wanted at another club anyway but the point is these guys become a whole lot less attractive to prospective clubs because they have x amount of points assigned to them.

paul, in a previous discussion I had with you about this, we used Carter (not being offered a contract to remain at the Cats) as an example. Your comment at the time was you think its a better thing that he goes to another team anyway. Well, he has now not gone to any team in the NBL, because his points value has made him an unattractive prospect. So exactly what is it you think is a good thing that the tool to force parity actually drives players away?

Reply #431547 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Nathan, let's look at it this way. Bennie Lewis and Greg Hire both started out as development players and were then elevated to the main roster at their clubs.

Hire has improved his weaknesses and become a very handy role player, earning a 7-pt rating in the process. He has signed a good contract with Perth after fielding other offers and looks secure in the NBL.

Lewis refused to play defence or get his head around the idea of shot selection, progressing only to a rating of 5. He has not been signed by a club.

The points rating has not determined where these two have ended up. It does encourage a team like Melbourne to take a young player like Odigie over an ineffective veteran like Lewis, but the points system didn’t make Lewis an ineffective veteran.

Reply #431548 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Situation, the guys you have listed havent performed. The points system doesnt hurt players who perform. I disagree with the premise that Carter is out of the league due to the points system.

Reply #431550 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think the crap thing about the points cap (which I hope will soon be scrapped) is that it does 'kick out' players like Carter who are clearly NBL standard but due to his points value being too restrictive finds himself out of the league.

Lets be honest would Brendan Teys even be in the NBL if he wasn't a 1 point player? Or Erik Burdon?

It's a joke.

Reply #431554 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

paul, so you're saying that without a points system, those guys would have been axed/not re-signed anyway?

Reply #431555 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Well preventing teams from committing as you put it 'financial suicides' makes the points cap worth while in itself, as we definatly cant go back to clubs having ultra expensive/talented rosters that they cannot afford meaning they drop out/no one else buys them a few years later.

So for that reason alone i vote in favour of the points cap.

Imo it definatly adds parity. Both community teams have made Grand Finals in the past few years, which i would almost certainly say wouldnt have happened if the points cap didnt exist, as the stronger teams would constantly pick the best talent from these teams, or it wouldnt fall to them in the first place.

Given the salary cap was ignored for years, possibly still is, without the points cap, what prevents the Wildcats for example matching Rhys Martins and Larry Davidsons Hawks salary for them to play for them? Given the salary cap is basically impossible to properly police, especially with the NBLs resources, the AFL struggle to police it imo, with soooo many more resources. That scenario would be a tragedy to the Hawks as who else would fall to them to replace them, they would end up replacing them with the equivalent of Daly and Vasiljevic, which is a large drop off and would make them un competitive.

The Wildcats would end up with

Knight/Davidson
Redhage/Wagstaff
Import/Hire
Import/Dillon (more expensive/proven than Burdon)
D.Martin/R.Martin

A large upgrade in talent/depth

Hawks end up with

Vasiljevic/Guber
Forman/MacMillan
Import/Coenrad
Demos/Burdon
Import/Daly

Eg a far weaker team, and that would be basically un-competitive, unless the imports were absolute studs, even then they would struggle.

With the Points Cap some good players eg Martin/Davidson fall to the lower budget teams, as the big teams cant simply stack there roster to whatever they can afford, and keeps them competitive to the point that the Hawks make the playoffs last season.

(obviously just using names as an example, but am certain the basic scenraio/idea would happen without the points cap)

Given the salary cap is basically impossible to police and in the past was ignored by basically everyone, especially the big budget teams, if we scrap the points cap how do we keep the league somewhat even?

If we dont do this we end up like European leagues where the big budget teams win all the time and the smaller teams basically never make playoffs let alone grand finals, which given the Hawks have basically always being smaller budget and they regularly make the playoffs and have even made a few grand finals in the past decade or so shows to me that the points cap is a good thing for the lower budget teams and the league as a whole.

Again i put it to all those 'i hate the points cap', ok we scrap it how do we keep the league somewhat even and give all teams a half realistic chance at making the playoffs?

Saying police the salary cap is not a good enough answer, as history, including fairly recent history has shown that is pretty much impossible/doesnt happen and teams ignore it as much as they can.

That being the 2nd reason im in favour of it, as it gives every team half a chance to make the finals basically every year, makes the league more exciting, i dont want a league where the big money teams dominate 90% of the time, they always have an advantage, but the points cap is a simple way to keep teams like the Hawks competitive with them atleast.

Reply #431557 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

And not just axed, had no other club show interest in signing them?

Reply #431559 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Dann, Bruce (not because of talent), Lewis, Bartlett and the Cedars, yes. Henry has had clubs interested. Carter and Rush chose to go to Sweden.

With an 8-team league I like a system that encourages teams to invest in the future rather than rehash underperforming veterans. If a player performs they will be signed, if they are amongst the worst players in the league, which the guys you mentioned were, they will be replaced.

Reply #431562 | Report this post


Muzz Buzz  
Years ago

Off court also plays a large part in a players signing.

If a player is high points , low salary and a great person then they will get offers. If a player is High points , mid to high salary expectation and a bad reputation off court then they wont get an offer.



Reply #431563 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The Situation, i do think most of those guys would be out of the league even if there was no points cap due to performance, drop them all to 1s and i dare say current teams would have not kept them and not many would have been picked up.

IMO Henry is the hardest done by in that group, but it isnt only the points cap keeping him out of the league, he has never exactly set the world on fire, if teams wanted him they would have signed him at his current points value, many teams could/can afford to do so, some still can.

Alot of the others are low percentage shooters, dont play much defense, no real improvement over the last couple of years and havnt added anything else to there game to continue to evolve/improve, like a guy like Hire has done at Perth to use Pauls example.

Carter is not out of the league due to points cap, he can make more $$ in Sweden, good on him, but not the points cap fault.

Bruce also isnt out due to the points cap i doubt, id say teams have had other issues with him, im not in the know, but just the perception i have got from him over his NBL career.

The rest of the guys just didnt really earn it, what did any of them do to certainly earn a new contract over a Burdon or Odigie? Are any of them playing SEABL/lower leagues and ripping it up to earn an opportunity? Like Burdon is doing at SEABL.

I agree fully with Pauls comments.

Reply #431564 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Could one way to sort of go half way, is say that anyone who doesnt have a contract after week 4 of the season is automatically a 1, but must also sign for minimum salary?

Therefore all the above guys mentioned can all be 1s and be ready to go if a bench guy is under performing, or an injury happens.

Reply #431565 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Which is why the NBL is going towards being a developmental league, our best players don't play in the NBL because they earn far more overseas and middle/lower end vets are being squeezed out for young guys/SEABL level scrubs which is why the standard of the league continues to decline.

Reply #431579 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

The standard of the league has gotten better each year since 2010. Write down who came in between 2010 and 2013 and who left and you will see that clearly.

Reply #431591 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

No, you can't simply say that if you have high points but a low salary expectation you'll get offers. Your salary expectations become very much a secondary concern. The points are the primary issue with team structure, and its rigidity is what is seeing people disappear through the cracks.

Carter sent me a reply on twitter a while back that he quite simply didn't get any offers. You can't tell me that he wasn't worth his points or that, given he was replacing Robbins who, though he had leadership skills, was no Cedric Jackson and thus was unlikely to have freed up that much cap space, was asking for too much.

No one offered because he was in that awkward points zone where its large enough to make you a difficult tetris piece to puzzle into a points cap, yet not a 10pt player where you have maximum bang for points.

Reply #431597 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Honestly, the more I discuss this and think it over, the more appalling I'm coming to find the points cap system.

Desperately in need of, at a minimum, a point trading/buying system.

Reply #431598 | Report this post


Muzz Buzz  
Years ago

I dont buy that argument. If a players suits what a team is after they will get an offer.

There are 80 possible spots, 66 if every team signs 2 imports.

The 36ers gave their 10th man spot to a 9/10 point player only a few years ago

For every player that is being kept out of the league because of their points others are getting a shot.


As Paul says if you are good enough you will get signed. Some players dont make sense ( Carter) but obviously teams arent after what he offers right now

Reply #431602 | Report this post


Muzz Buzz  
Years ago

sorry typo there 64 Aussie / NZ spots

Reply #431608 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Nathan,

I have no doubt next offseason once the de-merger has been bedded down the NBL will scrap the points cap. It's a nasty bit of BA over-reach which has hurt the standard of the league.

Reply #431615 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The points cap was introduced by the owners, nothing to do with BA. Properly done it is a good idea, it has ensured at the least reasonable standard teams around the league, not the trash we used to see from some teams back in the day.

Reply #431620 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

I think at best it has stopped teams fielding dominant teams at times but I don't think it has contributed to teams not being poor. Last season was terrible to watch in some aspects, despite every team using (almost) all of their 70 points.

Reply #431622 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

No one in recent years has been like the old Brisbane, Cairns, Geelong, Townsville, Victoria Giants or Canberra teams from the 90s or early 2000s who would regularly get flogged. Not even close.

Reply #431624 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Because they brought in 40 minute games for that.

Reply #431626 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Exaactly Paul, spot on again, the points cap has helped keep the league from having teams that regularly get flogged.

Even the 36ers who were bottom, beat Perth in Perths home stadiam and gave New Zealand a good showing for atleast a half in one of the games, those old bottom teams wouldnt get close to the grand finalists.

Reply #431627 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon #431627,

Are you forgetting last season 8th placed Adelaide losing to Melbourne by 30? Or losing to NZ by 25?

Perhaps 7th placed Townsville losing to Perth by 24? Or losing to Melbourne by 25? Or losing to NZ by 30? Or losing to Perth again by 28? Or losing to Wollongong by 24?

What about 6th placed Cairns losing to NZ by 21? Or losing to Perth by 22?

That last season was in spite of the points cap & 40 minute games.

Reply #431632 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Rather than citing examples of random blowouts that occur every season, it's better to look at the overall trends.

For example, the percentage of games decided by single figures (or overtime):

1993 = 44%
1998 = 48%
2003 = 36%
2008 = 38%
2013 = 55%

Or the winning percentage of the bottom two teams:

90-94 = 18%
95-99 = 27%
00-04 = 22%
05-09 = 25%
10-13 = 33%

It's fairly clear the bottom teams are the most competitive now. No doubt the smaller number of teams plays a part in that, although there isnt a direct correlation, there was the same average number of teams in each of the 95-99, 00-04 and 05-09 periods but different results.

An interesting aside is the correlation between the bottom sides being most competitive (late 90s and now) and lower scoring. I guess it makes sense the less bunny teams there are the less cricket scores get run up.


Reply #431649 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

When did 40 minute games come in?

Reply #431651 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Same time as the stricter points system and the drop to eight teams in 2010, so it's hard to get a gauge on how much each factor contributed.

Reply #431653 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"More competitive"?????

Or the top sides are less competitive????

It depends how you look at it.

Parity doesn't necessarily equate to a better league

Reply #431656 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Top teams less competitive, I love it!

Each to their own. I'll take watching close games more often than not over watching blowouts any day. Certainly more people are watching it now than in a long time, so there must be something good about it.

Given our bottom team beat a near .500 Serbian league team by 40 last pre-season, our top team is built from a national team that regularly finishes in the top 16 in the world, and a team made up mostly of NBL bench players finished second at the World Uni Games (matching Euroleague and future NBA talent) our league cant be that bad.

Reply #431657 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The standard is declining every year & this is no exception.

Reply #431678 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Thanks for that well thought out argument! But the improvement from the trough in 2010 to 2013 is clear.

The stars from the 2010 season who were lost by 2013 were Penney, Worthington, Williams, Ubaka, Gilchrist and McKee who played half a season.

Some of the other imports replaced include Roberts, J Mills, Melzer, Young, Storey, Rickert, M Rose, cast-handed Hodge and Groves.

Mackinnon and Anstey had retired after an injury-plagued 2010 where they struggled to contribute, as did Campbell and Hoare in later years.

Into the league to replace them had come Jackson, Ervin, Nevill, Wilson, Madgen, Knight, Deleon, Flynn and Scott, along with big improvements in that time from Abercrombie, Pledger, Johnson, Blanchfield, R Martin, Goulding and Lisch.

Im liking the 2013 side of that equation.

As for next year, Lisch, Jackson, Flynn, Scott and probably Nevill have been lost. In their place so far we have Ogilvy, Worthington, Markovic, Clarke and Ennis, with NZ and Perth still to unveil imports. Doesnt look like there will be a decline to me.





Reply #431695 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Anyway, we're not going to agree and that's ok, these forums would be boring if everyone did. Erik Burdon is some player though, responsible for the points system, salary cap and the standard of the league!

Reply #431697 | Report this post


Libertine  
Years ago

congratulations Eze!
another from the SA class of '85 to grace the NBL.

Reply #431717 | Report this post




 

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