Dr6
Years ago

Greer: Marketing The Game

I think this is a good article - but time to acknowledge the mistakes of the past and get on with it. The start of this season has been highly entertaining. The players now need to get out and raise the profile of the sport.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/weve-dropped-the-ball-big-time-20131020-2vv30.html

Topic #32906 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

Please, someone send that article to new NBL CEO Fraser Neill.

Promotion and Advertising of the NBL is terrible.

Reply #441022 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Considering it came from an NBL Team Captain, I suspect the CEO would be aware of it already ;)

Reply #441024 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

You would be surprised...

Reply #441028 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Its an interesting article, but reveals next to nothing. I wonder how many of the current players have a genuine understanding of the level of promotional and publicity work done by players in the past - particularly during the "rise" period.

Reply #441030 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

How much community work do the 36ers do with schools and district clubs? Serious question as most I read/hear about are radio gigs and appearances at rundle mall.

Big Red was at Morphett Vale for some of the Junior Winter GF presentations, but that's about all I can think of recently.

Reply #441038 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Agree.
The article doesn't really propose any practical options. It merely reiterates what we all know about the state of the league.

Its not insightful, rather it is information/facts that most forum users on here would be aware of.

The article mentions that it is time to move on and look to the future, yet it actually only really talks about the past success of the league. Bit of irony

Reply #441039 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Interesting thoughts in the comments section:

It was all that 'in ya face' wannabee american rant that did it for me.
It's lame and a bit bizarre to see Australian's bow down and attempt to create some E grade version of a sport that appears to exist in large part to glorify very tall men. What's with that?
Commenter
Padrino
Location
Ellivarray
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 1:24AM

The NBL used to be played in winter but moved to summer to escape the football codes. Soccer had the same idea and judging from the press coverage the last few wks soccer is absolutely beating cricket and basketball. Aust is just such a competitive sports market.
Commenter
mj
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 6:31AM

Wake me up when the NBL returns to same standard of play as it was in 1990s. The game today is a shadow of what it was and totally disconnected from the fan base. In the old days the stars would go overseas in the off-season while the role players would dominate the secondary leagues like SEABL and BiGV. Quite simply the standard post-juniors has fallen away since its heyday, there is no connection to fans and it is easier to watch NBA, NCAA and Euroleague games from the comfort of home.
Commenter
Statler
Location
Melbourne
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 8:16AM

Back in the 90's we had star players such as Gaze, Copeland, Bradke, Fisher, Ronaldson etc playing domestically and for the national team. They were great to watch and there was genuine rivalry between the Tigers and the Magic.
The problems started because the team names kept changing as they were bought by other owners thus destroying the built up rivalry (just as it would if Hawthorn or Geelong changes names in the AFL).
Then some of the biggest names in the game seemed to find reasons not to play for their country putting the needs of their NBL contracts first. When the real crowd pullers won't play for the national team, the crowds stop coming.
Cricket will and is experiencing the same drop off at domestic level because the state vs state rivalry is being destroyed by having all these silly names that pay homage to the sponsors rather than history.
Commenter
Captain Grumpy
Location
Kingsville
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 8:16AM

Couldn't have said it better myself Captain. Well played sir, well played...
Commenter
Private Grumpy
Location
Melbourne
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 9:50AM
Australian basketball needs the NBA to be on free to air, watch the NBA on TV and then go to local games. The NBL should subsidise a free to air channel to run NBA games every week and advertise for free during those games.
Commenter
Bruce of Adelaide
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 8:37AM

Basketball in Australia was a fad brought about by media hype of the big NBA stars. Without that hype, the crowds drop off. Kids tend to participate in the same sports as their fathers. In Australia,this used to mean footy or cricket but now soccer is getting right up there also.
Basketball is not suited to most people under 6 foot so the kids will prefer something that they know they cam compete equally in.
Commenter
Dave
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 8:37AM

@Dave, it's an old argument mate. AFL is not suited to anyone under 6,2 anymore. It wasn't the hype either, is was a grass roots thing that grew over years and dropped of a cliff for exactly the reasons Tommy has mentioned. It's now about this hype you speak of and aussies don't like the american style of hype and the only real time you read about BA is when there is a new CEO who's going to bring back the glory days.
Clubs like Melb tigers can hang their heads in shame too, it was the league as a whole and it lay down and let the AFL over run it. Even though it's back on TV, no one watches one so we don't know what time it's on and I read that Adelaide play every second game on TV anyway. Sounds like an awesome TV deal, if you're from SA but what about the rest of the country? I don't watch AFL too much unless my team is playing!!
Great article Tommy, I hope this is part of your solution and look forward reading something different each week.
The game needs a Frank Lowery and can we get Brain Gorgen and some other names back to the game?
Commenter
Shaun
Location
Melb
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 11:50AM
Dave, and your comment on kids not attracted to basketball -- you obviously haven't been to much junior basketball recently. It's absolutely thriving, with waiting lists on most teams and packed to the gills stadiums the norm on weekends. The only thing holding it back is a lack of courts.
Commenter
Jogus
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 9:00AM

"The AFL looked upon basketball as a real and serious threat"? C'mon Tommy, be serious.
Basketball was never that big. It's far too late for you now. The A League has already overtaken your sport and cricket. The only threat to the AFL by their own admission is football.
Commenter
mal duxworthy
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 9:18AM

Mal, the AFL made a pointed approached to Basketball! Why do you think they came up with Auskick?? It's come knowledge it was to designed to pull kids away from basketball..
Commenter
Shaun
Location
Melb
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 11:53AM
The timing of the season is all wrong basketball was invented as a winter sport - they should go after the AFL - bring in players from around the world during the "off season" in the Northern Hemisphere. Lots of players are looking to sharpen their skills or get back into the game - you need to look for world quality players to bring in the fans - anyone during the season here that has a TV can watch the NBL. Having night games played inside in a fairly short time frame would compete well against going to the MCG for an afternoon game in the rain.
Commenter
Joe
Location
Melbourne
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 9:21AM

No the biggest problem with the NBL is that it has no entertainment value, all it contains Jumpshot Jumpshot Jumpshot. Watch an NBA game followed straight away by an NBL game and you will easily see how boring and lacking of skill NBL is.
Commenter
JordanS88
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 9:42AM

Spot on Jordan. The NBA has evolved massively since the 90's and left the NBL in it's tracks (NBL was already quite a ways behind it). Unfortunately the skill is lacking in NBL, as is the entertainment value, so it's just not worth spending an hour watching this when I can watch a much more skilled and entertaining game that I have recorded from that day (NBA in the same time).
Also, why did NBL detach itself from BA?? Surely one universal front would have a better chance of keeping the game interesting to fans??
Commenter
Token86
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 11:50AM
Why would anyone watch the NBL when it is so easy these days to purchase an NBA league pass online and link it to your smart TV so you can watch every NBA game from the comfort of your couch.
Commenter
JordanS88
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 9:52AM

Too Americanised and a boring game to watch. That's what's wrong with it. It always seemed to be forced upon us when the games were televised. You can also add A League and Cricket to the Boring catergory........
Commenter
Blackdog2
Location
east melbourne
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 10:44AM

The arrogance of basketball administrators in the 90's was phenomenal. The plan was that the next generation of youth would get into management of corporations and they would automatically throw all their support to basketball. When I heard this I knew they were dead men walking. Circa 2013 and basketball is a boutique game. Soccer has overtaken it and there is more interest in hockey than there is in basketball. Great game to play but just does not transfer to the TV. Americans like it but really Yanks are a simple people.
Commenter
Jay
Location
Melbourne
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 11:03AM

I supported the Magic when I was a kid and lost interest in the competition when the club died.
Years later I reconnected with the NBL when the South Dragons joined the league. I would attend the majority of their home games at Hisence Arena and it felt like the competition was growing again. The finals series (2009?) against Melbourne Tigers gained plenty of coverage and drew big crowds.
But the Dragons withdrew from the league only weeks after winning the championship and no second Melbourne team has emerged since.
You only need to look at the crowds pulled by Victory v Heart A-League games to see the benefits a hometown rivalry can bring. Until a Melbourne team to rival the Tigers (who I've dislikes since I was in primary school courtesy of the Tigers/Magic rivalry) appears, I have absolutely zero interest in following the NBL.
Commenter
KK
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 11:22AM

I remember having training camps while I was in PS with Melbourne Magic through the late 90's.
That was a great initiative and really generated interest in the national game at a young age.
Absolutely agree that a local rivalry is needed !!
Commenter
Token86
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 11:55AM
The NBL needs to reinvent itself similar to what the A League has done. I don't even watch the A-League but you can see how professionally it is run, with fewer teams based on bigger areas to make teams more viable. We have seen that year to year in the NBL half the teams (let alone the entire comp) are on the verge of folding. I used to watch the NBL but struggle these days because the quality of players just isn't there because clubs don't have the money to pay them. If the crowds don't show up, you don’t have a game.
NBL in the top 5 basketball leagues in the world? I would doubt it is top 20. Look at the Boomers, how many of those guys are playing in the NBL? It also very disappointing the Cannons are no longer in the league. The NBL is not alone though in terms of poor watch-ability of a bball. I can’t watch the Euro league as it is the most structured, boring exponent of the game going - despite having a lot of marque players and rabid fans. If you’re going to run the offence every time down, basketball isn't that thrilling to watch. NBA is great because there is actually very little (outside of the pick and roll) in terms of set plays. Difference is the NBA has the calibre of athletes to be able to play that way.
Commenter
Utes
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 11:42AM

$32 for a crappy seat. $6 + for a Ticketmaster gouge plus 1.95% extra for a cc. Drive to a Netball stadium as no Public Transport.
Give me some cheaper prices at Stadiums in the East where the big associations reside (Kilsyth, Knox, Dandenong).
I might go.
Commenter
Steve Ca$h
Location
Kilsyth
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 11:46AM

I too was a big follower back in the 90s. At that time basketball was live on free TV. Now, commercial TV treats basketball like a second rate sport. Last year when I would looked for and eventually found basketball on TV it was usually the Sydney team playing (I follow the WIldcats). I think basketball needs to be on live on commercial TV or, preferably, on Foxtel so it is easy to find and record - to be played back at our convenience, usually the same day. Even the WNBL is on Foxtel.
Commenter
Sonofswift
Location
Perth
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 11:58AM

The solution it pretty simple, the biggest problem is that the powers that be don't want to listen and will not makes the changes needed.
As soon as you mention the words slam or dunk, they cringe.
Guess what? "Thats what people want to see"
Commenter
SMS Australia
Location
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 12:31PM

Judging from the comments here there are a lot of uniformed people claiming to love basketball.
*Firstly the NBL playing standard is well up with the best in Europe and that's why any Aussie who gets a European passport is poached by Euro clubs.
*Secondly the WNBL is not on Foxtel, whoever said that is miles wrong plus Perth Wildcats have featured in three of the first four TV games.
*Thirdly NBL.TV is available for less around $90 and you can watch every game live or on replay, just like NBA LP.
The silent killers of the NBL are all of those trolls who claim to have loved it in the 90s now don't care at all.
If you don't like basketball anymore just move on and stop dumping on a league which is vital to the future of Australian hoops.
And for those who say they can only watch NBA, ask Andrew Bogut, Patty Mills, Aron Baynes, Matt Dellavedova and any other Aussie who has played in the NBA and they will all say they grew up watching NBL and supporting the players.
With some luck, Australian teens Dante Exum and Ben Simmons will play in the NBA in the very near future - they are grew up in Australia because their dads came here to play in the NBL and they will make our nation proud.
Please read Tommy Greer's words and give the league a second shot or just belt up and move on with your lives.
Commenter
Give NBL a shot
Location
Australia
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 12:32PM

It's good to see players really do care and want to improve the league
The running of a competition can have a huge long term impact
The A-League has done well to attract fans with very sunstandard play and a complete lack of talent, it hasn't changed much except for it's branch, just remember it was an absolute basketcase ten years ago when in was the NSL, the players are just as bad now as then
NBL moved to summer due to the rights agreement with Foxtel, it wasn't to avoid competing with AFL, that is nonsense
Foxtel wanted a sport to show over the summer months and were prepared to pay a large sum for the rights of a good product
The next mistake was allowing teams without a stable base to enter the league, Singapore Slingers, Gold Coast and alike, and odd decisions when it came to mergers, I'll never understand why the "Magic" brand was lost and replaced with Titans, silly, lost a lot of brand recognition
Over the years the lack of a suitable venue has hampered the Melbourne Tigers, for most people living in the East you can expect them to ask where is the Cage? Cartlon? Why are they playing there?
Is Margaret Court with a roof a better proposal?
Finally, as money has flooded the Chinese and Russian leagues it is no surprise our better players have left for greener pastures, how long can we keep Goulding for?
The wildcats have shown that a good stadium in a good location can attract spectactors
Wasn't that long ago (2009) that I watch Tigers v Dragons with 10,000 others at Hisense Arena
Commenter
OMG
Location
Melbourne
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 12:49PM

Good article, basketball was massive in the 90's in Australia during the Jordan era, and the NBL road the wave of that, and had the household names you speak of Gaze, Heal, Bradtke and co to back up some interest. Within that time the AFL became professional, now an 18 year with athletic ability, good hands, leap etc, all things required in basketball (whether 6"6 or not) is transferable to AFL with a higher pay packet- unless you're Andrew Bogut. While basketball is a high participation sport in the country, the amount of talent that has been poached by AFL has and will continue to hurt the sport in this country. Almost lost Mills and Ingles. They may not all represent Australia but has hurt the quality of the NBL in terms of depth and those that won't go abroad. Unfortunately now with the amount of channels available and web content, having basketball back on free to air won't help all that much.
Commenter
doda
Location
melbourne
Date and time
October 21, 2013, 1:23PM



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/weve-dropped-the-ball-big-time-20131020-2vv30.html#ixzz2iKH24dki

Reply #441041 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

I agree with that first readers comments The "American wannabe" stuff IS a turnoff to many people yet the still continue with it. Are Ten that stupid?

Reply #441043 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

News site comments/newspaper letters to the editor are cesspits.

Reply #441045 | Report this post


BALLER#3  
Years ago

I definitely agree with the Americanization comments. Really need to create a unique feeling league, Basketball, Australias way.

I think with a few unique but not ridiculous rule changes etc, it could be great again.

In saying that, i think that connecting with the NBA can definitely help us as well. Preseason games vs NBL All stars would be huge as it was for the A league.

Its not that hard really if they get their shit together and really work hard

Reply #441046 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

From the mouth of Ricky Grace:

"In the early 90's our days used to consist of training, then getting out to as many schools as possible, then featuring in television commercials"

Reply #441047 | Report this post


Annon  
Years ago

Take a look at Fresh FM website for sixers in Sumo suits ! Very funny but why aren't these pics on 36ers sites..... Connect with fans please and more will follow........ That start with being present in social media............

Reply #441048 | Report this post


Swagger  
Years ago

It needs to go back to winter. NBA League pass is way too tough to compete with, live streaming NBA games weren't envisioned in the 90s when the move was first made.

Reply #441060 | Report this post


Swagger  
Years ago

Plus has anyone seen a highlights package of mid 90s ball recently? High scoring, plenty of dunks and blocks, quite remarkable to look back and compare to today's product.

Reply #441061 | Report this post


natwhereyouat  
Years ago

You'd be surprised at how many basketball fans don't have the time to follow NBA and NBL.

I'm not saying move the NBL back to winter, but it should at least be looked at. Lots of fans "back in the day" would use the NBL as a fill in during the NBA off season.

There's so many issues that need to be looked at that can't be summed up in a forum post.

Reply #441065 | Report this post


Swagger  
Years ago

Exactly Nat. These issues need to be looked at, I've a big advocate of going back to winter but of course none of us have hard data here to back up our theories.

THe impact of NBA league pass needs to be examined. Too many friends I know would rather pay $200 for a season of streamed NBA rather than go to NBL games. Yet in winter we have nothing to keep hoop junkies engaged.

Reply #441076 | Report this post


ricey  
Years ago

Maybe not move from summer to winter, but have it overlap both?
While players do need to be in the public eye more, that falls back on the clubs to make happen.
More aggressive marketing is the key however, especially "guerrilla" marketing. Word of mouth is what creates buzz for any other musician or media personality, and the NBL needs to realise this. Quality commercials and online clips isn't hard or expensive to make happen either. If the league pushed itself more aggressively then the media would have to take notice

Reply #441095 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Just emphasising the point regarding the popularity of NBA League pass...came across this on NBA.com (Hang-time blog):

"Australia ranks No. 1 in subscribers to NBA League Pass International and in NBAstore.com's international revenue"

Reply #441105 | Report this post


hoopie  
Years ago

What really stopped me going to games for many years was the arrogance at the top as they played around with my favourite teams. First we lost St Kilda, who were fun to watch. Then we lost the Giants, who I watched most home games of. Then the Spectres became the .. became the .... Finally, we were left with only the Tigers and no more local derbies.

Maybe the bean-counters at the top thought that fans would just switch their loyalties to another team overnight - as if!!

I wonder how much the crowd numbers suffered during the Great Melbourne Downsizing.

Reply #441118 | Report this post


Wildcat Fan  
Years ago

A lot of that had to do with those clubs going under. Its not all the NBLs fault that so many teams folded. Maybe if they were supported a little better (not just from supporters, but sponsors and owners who may have given up too easily), we'd have a few more teams today?

Reply #441131 | Report this post


mahonjt  
Years ago

While there are some similarities, the comparisons with the A-League are unhelpful in my view.

Let's put to one side the scale/scope differences of the two games/leagues for a minute. A reminder of this is that Melbourne Victory football club alone has a turnover greater than that of the entire NBL (at least based on the 2011-12 BA Annual Report figures). Let’s just focus on the challenges associated with marketing these two global games to domestic audiences.

Firstly, when Australia’s national football league moved to summer in 1989 (16 years BEFORE the A-League) it solved a series of massive capacity constraints and logistical problems such as ground access at all levels, grassroots attendance at national league games, synchronisation with Europe/FIFA (and now AFC) competition calendars, integrating a national 'cup’ competition and playing against the two big, but still regional codes in rugby league and AFL (yes, they are direct competitors as ‘other footballs’ unlike the NBL). Rugby union stopped being a competitor when their CEO was employed by football to set up the A-League is now some distance in football’s ‘rear view’ mirror now on almost all measures. I don’t think basketball has the same logistical or competitive problems as football - so it should keep all competition window options on the table in my view.

Secondly, we can all agree that marketing a game is less of a problem if a game can market itself with a high, but not necessarily ‘world’s best’ playing standard. Football has developed technically in Australia and attracted some big names, ‘blue chip’ investors and mass media coverage (finally) which have all helped the league invest in player quality and build that critical intangible - 'credibility'. Indeed, in my view this has been so successful that the last three annual FFA media campaigns have focused on those things that unite the massive, national football community and ‘set it apart’ from other codes. The #wearefootball campaign and the associated focus on game atmosphere has been a marketing success. When you no longer have to convince your own people to take you seriously, you can begin to focus on the things that will bring new people to games and keep them and your base ‘attached’ (i.e. entertainment). Game quality first to unite the diaspora – entertainment second to bring the sugar! That order is important for sustainability. ‘Piss and wind’ will never sell basketball to basketball fans as well as actual ‘basketball’ can. But once your people are again interested and attending, you can attract and keep others by appealing to their sense of belonging and identity. You turn your base into league Apostles.

It is important to note that while the unification of the national football community is underway – it is still just at the beginning (at all levels). The ‘Eurosnobs’ and the ‘NSL bitters’ are still about in sufficient number to give some football people an excuse not to give the domestic top flight a go – but they are now clearly on the losing end of this perennial debate about legitimacy.I don't think basketballs 'enemies within' are as big a problem.

In my opinion the CEO should stop dreaming about 16 teams until the clearly significant domestic basketball community who respect THEIR game return. They will return if the competition is stable and of a high standard (it may take a decade?). It is they who will begin to drag the ‘NBA snobs’ along, and in time basketball be in a position to begin marketing to the broader community. The marketing of basketball should reflect a natural evolution that is honest about its place in the sporting economy. Basketball arguably has a case that its marketing can go all ‘showbiz’ earlier than football because of its American roots and the obvious cultural differences between the two communities (football fans find 'showbiz' anathema). However, to go in this direction to strongly, too early is a mistake because ultimately the implied message is that the playing standard is second rate.

That is no business model.

Reply #441183 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Official proponents (players, coaches, front office staff) need to quit with the "back in the 90s" stuff. Acknowledge it internally, but stop mentioning it publically. What's happening now is what's happening now - run with that.

Reply #441286 | Report this post


KB3  
Years ago

Agree Isaac, the seemingly continual "back in the 90's we were great" infers to the watcher/ attendee that they are experiencing and supporting an inferior product.

I also think this comes across in the commentating. So many great things that get highlighted in the NBA

Reply #441292 | Report this post


KB3  
Years ago

Dont know what happened there

...that get glossed over or missed by our commentators. Tell the fans at home that Ervin spent the off season playing with Nate Robinson against Kyrie Irving, drill home that Schenscher played with the Bulls ( more legit NBA than what Ennis is)

so many positives that dont get pumped up by laziness

Reply #441294 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Greer really said nothing in that article other than the NBL needs more promotion.


Ok, we knew that....

Reply #441297 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

The way I see it, the new CEO of the NBL is planting a seed, not to be taken literally right now but the fact he is expressing a long term vision should be a positive, action taken to get something moving right now appears to be slow but deliberate.

Reply #441308 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The new CEO is captain obvious, but the reality is they're struggling to hold 8 a float let alone look to expand.

Reply #441330 | Report this post


Dr6  
Years ago

I think Peach is on the money

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/basketball/lift-your-game-off-the-field-petrie-20131024-2w4k1.html

Reply #441579 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

More talk of the past which is dangerous. Focus on the current, that's your product!

Reply #441590 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

From the Cairns Post:

IN the wake of Melbourne Tigers captain Tommy Greer's fantastic insight into what's going on behind the scenes in the NBL...
Stopped reading at "fantastic insight". No offence to Greer, but I don't think it's an insight as much as the positive from it is that the players seem a little more engaged with the future of their sport this season.

Reply #441963 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Titan 35

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms
Punch - insightful time tracking
Beam Orders - a quick, simple order and payments site for your business.

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



Invoicing clients? Stay productive with Punch, the insightful time tracker that earns you more.

Special offer: $30/month Pay $100 for lifetime access. Sign up now!

.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 1:05 pm, Wed 25 Nov 2020 | Posts: 849,864 | Last 7 days: 797