Pud
Years ago

VJBL Metro only

I don't believe country teams should be playing on Friday nights in the VJBL, unless they are prepared to play all their home games in a metro stadium. My concern is that parents, after working all week, have to drive over 2 hours to some places, and generally wouldn't get home till after midnight. I would hate to see an accident because a parent fell asleep on the way home. I might add that only teams that qualify for VC should be allowed in the comp at all. You should not have to drive more than an hour for Metro 2,3,4.

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Anon  
Years ago

Pud, very strong points and not sure how much support you will get. I happen to agree with you to a point, the question is where do you draw the line as to who is out and who is in.

Teams I would call country are Bacchus Marsh, Ballarat, Bendigo, Korumburra, Latrobe City, Maffra, Shepparton and Warragul. But what about places like Bellarine, Southern Peninsula and Corio Bay. Depending where you come from, these are a long way to travel, for example Mornington to Corio Bay is about 2 hours.

A couple of years ago we were in a pool (VC) with Bendigo, Ballarat and Maffra. Plenty of late starts and even later drives home. It will only take one small bus with a coach and 10 kids to run off the road and it will be front page news screaming about the irresponsibility of the competition to let some of these teams in.

It's a valid question.

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HO  
Years ago

Fair call. We should just ban people outside of Melbourne from playing basketball, it might inconvenience a Melbourne mum or dad.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Wow, talk about a self-centred OP. Why should country teams be banned? Is it the Victorian Junior BL or the Victorian Metro Junior BL?

Just as well country parents don't have to do long drives to the metro area every 2nd week...

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Anon  
Years ago

The long drive for country parents is as applicable as it is for metro people, it goes both ways. No one is saying they can't play, just that it is a safety concern. This has been around for years and will stay around until, like all things, something happens.

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Happy Days  
Years ago

I think parents getting involved in VJBL need to realise how big a commitment is. i remember VBA wednesday nights driving all over the country side with my dinner sitting on my lap. Furthest was Geelong and Sunbury.

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paul  
Years ago

I think it all should be played on a Saturday, aligned with the clubs' senior teams' fixtures where possible.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Great idea to look at any games vs the Country associations as a lead in to some senior games. Lots of pros and plenty of cons but definitley worth a discussion.

The main sticking point will be the domestic clubs / games get impacted. Imagine 4 games in the lead up to a Senior or YTH game might be just worth the kids sticking around to watch as well

No late night drives or leaving work early to rush home to travel to Metro or a country game.

Maybe families could make a weekend of it

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Happy Days  
Years ago

Only problem with Saturdays is football and soccer are played in some regions on a Saturday and kids might have to give up one of the sports.

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HO  
Years ago

"The long drive for country parents is as applicable as it is for metro people, it goes both ways. No one is saying they can't play, just that it is a safety concern. "

Actually, PUD said Country teams shouldn't be allowed to play UNLESS they agreed to play in Metropolitan stadiums. So PUD seems to believe it is only an issue that should concern Metro people

It makes sense. Broady shouldn't have to travel all the way to Bacchus Marsh to play them when they could stop at Melton, but its absolutely reasonable for Broady to play Pakenham at Pakenham.

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Bear  
Years ago

I will qualify anything I say in response to your idea Pud by firstly letting you know that I have had two kids in the VJBL for about 9 years and yes, we travel from Geelong, which is country.

Without getting caught up in the perceived naivety of your post, I will attempt to answer your question with as much objectivity as I can, notwithstanding the way you have appeared to be confrontational in your original porting.

Travel time is a huge issue for the VJBL, it is compounded by distance and start times, let's face it there is not much joy in playing at 10.00-11.00pm regardless of how far we travel.

Years ago, the VJBL treated country teams like poor cousins by having them play all home games at the Metro club's venue, this was changed to Werribee or Coburg for Geelong teams for some time until equilibrium was established and home/away was introduced.

There is a by-law that assists teams traveling excessive distances, more a common sense rule really, that allows the two clubs to sort out and play both games at a neutral venue. This isn't coordinated by the VJBL though, it relies on the teams to do it themselves, so court availability can be an issue.

Werribee to Frankston (both Metro) is about an hour and a half, if you get a good run, so although you place a two hour limit on your idea, there are Metro trips that can easily get to that time frame.

While many country people will find your post quite comical and to be frank I almost hear the dueling banjos strumming in the background, there needs to be some common sense approach taken to try to ease the burden of travel on Friday nights, but your original post may be a little too far right to consider going back to, I would suggest brother...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I think at U12 and U14 levels they should split each division (Metro 1, Metro 2, Metro3, Metro4 and then the regions) into an East/West scenario to limit the travelling. At this age group most the players are still ding skill development and it is likely going to keep the parents on the good side without too much travel.

At U16 and U18 levels I say it's the nature of the competition. Generally if you are Melb based you only have 1-2 long distance games during the season where if you are from Geelong, Bendigo, Sherbrooke, Maffra, etc you are travelling every second week.

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Ashke  
Years ago

Poor Pud, you must be the only parent that works all week and then has to drive to a Friday night game. I am in the process of nominating you for an OAM, as i think what you do is simply inspiring and amazing.

Spare a thought for some of the country kids that travel in to Melbourne to play a 9:40pm game, then have to drive to the likes of Bendigo, Shepparton, and Traralgon that night or very early the next day for a country state or nitp camp.

Obviously those kids have parents that don't work, not like you Pud, being the only parent that does, so thank you for upholding the state with your efforts.

Like it has been stated before, the travel goes both ways, so get over it. How about we also state that country kids can't play for metro clubs, just to really divide our state even further. There are country kids driving over 3 hours EACH WAY to play for metro clubs, how is your concern level for those families Pud?

I don't think you will find any of the country kids and parents complaining about the travel, just our little mate Pud, the hard worker.

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Pud  
Years ago

Its all about safety for ALL parents & kids, both metro and country. Late night travel is always dangerous, especially after a work day. For those posters that think I am telling country kids don't play, couldn't be further from the truth. Maybe get your chips off your shoulders and understand my concerns with the driving aspect.

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HO  
Years ago

You failed to make your point Pud.

Instead of talking about long travel in the VJBL generally, you managed to make it an anti-country thing (country teams shouldn't participate unless THEY are prepared to come to Melbourne)... as some pointed out, Werribee to Mornington or Kilsyth is a longer haul than Southern Pen to Dandy.

Then you suggest the Country teams should only play Championship - so basically kick all the country teams out of other levels because teams from Melbourne shouldn't have to travel...

but of course, you are concerned for ALL.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Pud's idea of safety for all is that country people can't play at all, unless they are willing to drive long distances EVERY week for metro away games.....and metro home games. What a goose!

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SF6  
Years ago

What about having Maryborough in the metro competition. Riduculous!!!

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HO  
Years ago

What metro competition are Maryborough in?

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Pud  
Years ago

Lets make it easy. Vic Country run a comp for the country teams on Saturdays so travel isn't late on Fridays, and VJBL run a metro comp which is graded according to location. Maybe using MSAC as the furthest a team has to travel, whether from north, south, east or west. There will always be the argument that the best teams generally come from the eastern side of Melbourne, but if VC for example was split into 2 divisions of east and west, and they crossed over for finals, the best teams would win anyway. Then the best "metro" team could play the best country team to decide a State Champ!

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SF6  
Years ago

Maryborough - U/16 Girls Pool 2

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Quality over quantity? Perhaps the higher grades should travel and the rest should sit in divisions. It would certainly show who is serious and who isn't.

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Ashke  
Years ago

They already do that lol, there is VC, then there is the rest.

Reply #506028 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

SF6 and Pud.

Its not a metro league. Its a Victorian League.

It used to be a Metro league. In fact I think at one stage it was VMJBL or something.

And Pud, your latest suggestion is as counter productive as your first one, the one with all your "concerns".

The best system has the best teams in it, wherever they come from. There are lots of people who argue now that the Championship shouldn't have 20 teams but even if it was 10, and three country teams made the top ten, then they should be in it.

Despite it being named "championship" division, its a league, played home and away. Its not a tournament. League play should determine the finalists and finals should determine the champion - not a single contest between two teams.

If there are problems with late Friday travel (and we know now they ONLY affect Melbourne people) then by all means revamp the way that occurs, but as a principle the best teams in the state should play each other at the top level.


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Anonymous  
Years ago

Pud, do you have any involvement in VJBL? If you did you will know that minimizing travel is built into the fixturing as much as possible and that as you move to the lower divisions, they are as much as possible built around comapatible geographies. As for Country teams entering the comp, it is at their request! The country associations are increasing their involvement in the competition, to the betterment of it. However, if you want your point of view to be heard, and respected, get involved in your local association. Get on to its management commitee and get appointed as a delegate to the VJBL/Regional competition. Then present your reasoned, and well thought-through, business case to the other deleagtes from all of the other Associations, garner support for your ideas, and have a vote carried for your ideas at the AGM. If you don't have the stomach for that effort, perhaps rather than sniping and justifying your sniping as "concern for safety" you might simply remain silent. Roughly 11,000 parents of kids who get a chance to play at the highest level they can do not share your concerns. Perhaps respect that.

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SF6  
Years ago

gee, some people need to calm down. I was just stating that's its a long way to travel from Rosebud to Maryborough on a Friday night, lol.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I know a way for Pud to not have to travel. Just play domestic!! Seems representative basketball is a bit too hard for you anyway!

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Happy Days  
Years ago

I think one of the bigger issues is how long the season runs for and does it need to be shortened to prevent injury.Luke Sunderland posted a great story on it from the US. Worth a read:
http://yellowhammernews.com/faithandculture/world-renowned-alabama-surgeon-pleads-parents-give-young-athletes-break/

Reply #506041 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

@Happy Days that is very important, there is sometimes too much emphasis on basketball and shooting and jumping and running and all the hard work kids are asked to do on a hard court surface.

There needs to be more recognition for young kids and how their bodies develop at different speeds.

Then there needs to be a lot more consideration for the importance of strength and conditioning and rest, so these kids can stay on the court when it is required of them by all their coaches...

We sometimes get things arse about I reckon?!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

God bless you Pud, are you a christian by any chance?

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Happy Days  
Years ago

Curious, is there any break at all for VJBL or does it go year round?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

There is a short break of about a month or month and a half, depending on when clubs hold try-outs and start their pre grading training. VJBL also hols a Spring season just to fill that gap too, so there is almost no rest for the kids really!

Lucky to get two or three weeks over Xmas and New Year if they go away.

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Anon  
Years ago

For the 2014 - 2015 year, many clubs have tryouts starting in the first week or so of October, Spring Phase begins 7 November straight into Grading Phase 1, last game before Christmas is this Friday night, first game back after the Eltham Tournament is 30 January and it all finishes 18 September.

So depending which club you are at, give or take effectively two weeks short of a full year with holiday breaks in the middle. Having been around it with a couple of kids for over 9 years I can tell you it never stops.

And back on point, yes we have clocked up plenty of miles around the way.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Here is the trap. Your kid shows promise and makes it to the representative program, then starts growing and showing even more promise for basketball.

All of a sudden your school is asking for the kid to play for their team, domestic is asking for the kid to play up into higher divisions and the rep' program is placing their demands on the kid, by this time maybe a teenager.

At this time the state coaches and possibly national coaches take notice, which is marvelous for the ego and everyone starts to take notice, especially if that kid continues to grow (size matters).

Not including any other sports, you now have the potential to do extra work with NITP, NPP or even some visits to the COE for more basketball training and coaching.

The demands on basketball alone at this level suggests something has to give, the VJBL suddenly becomes mid level and the fun stuff with your mates has to be dropped or you just don't find time for homework or anything else in life.

Football training and coaching at this elite level in comparison is seasonal and focus is placed more so on fitness, core strength, endurance and injury prevention.

It is a tough ask for kids playing basketball to say to network coaches, 'I just need to give my body a break, before it breaks down'

What is worse, is that some coaches just don't understand or don't want to give kids a break because they are also under pressure from above them to get results so their programs are the best programs out there. How sad for the kids left with no choice but to work harder and push through injuries until they break!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

It is simple to work out what to do and when - if it is not on the elite pathway (for the elite basketballer mentioned above), remove it.

Don't play domestic - if it a requirement your rep club won't wave then you should seek a new rep club, one who has your best interests at hears. School basketball also should go - it really is just a much around with their mates 90% of the time. And school coaches usually only have school pride on their agenda, not athlete development. If you decide to take up a scholarship offer, you have to play and you know it when you accept it, so you can't really complain about the extra work for it.

It is not usually the "year round" grind that does juniors in - it is the "extra" stuff that is not really necessary - domestic/social/church games etc.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon^ doesn't live in the real world. Anyway back to the op, I think you are trying to present a problem with traveling long distances and the VJBL. But you have delivered your message very poorly indeed!

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Phobos 32  
Years ago

Thank god you dont get into positions of influance? VJBL is the best league in the country just enjoy the privllidge that you have and play in it.
Dont squeal about travelling it evens itself out for all.
Is it fair to exclude country teams absolutely not? Most country teams travel by mini bus each week or at least they did when I was doing it. Is it too hard for metro teams to do that as well.

Suck it up princess.
Its been happening for years now and how many accidents have occurred, low risk.
People are smart enough to manage their time and resources around the requirement, clearly not the case for you.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anyone who thinks footy is not demanding is kidding themselves, swimming ???? The same, the list goes on. It is elite sport, your choice to be involved and not all coaches run kids into the ground.

Communication is the key from all involved, nothing worse than a parent saying the kid needs a break, only to find them training or playing footy or something else then moan if results are not up to satisfaction.

If a kid needs a break, just take one

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HO  
Years ago

#506169

Your comments about not playing domestic, just rep, are interesting.

Is this how it should be? Should a player not play domestic and just play rep (might be silly not "repping" anything)?

Or is the greater crime the length of the season, if the VJBL was cut back could the summer focus be domestic and the winter focus be rep?

Interested in others views.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Kids play domestic during the Rep season HO, it extends over the summer and winter season because the rep season is dragged out to include so many pre grading and grading games etc..

Rep is in addition to domestic, it does not replace it is what I am trying to get at.

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HO  
Years ago

Anon, I understand what happens now, just trying to get a feel for what might be better in the future.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

In the future, more courts and bigger venues to cater for all the kids who wish to play, that would be something worthy and would solve many problems.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

No issue fundamentally with country teams playing but I massively object to 9:40pm games in Maffra when there are courts free at 8:40pm. We didn't get on the road till after 11pm and then had to drive 3 hours. My partner fell asleep at the wheel and we ran off the road. how any body can think this is acceptable staggers me. Wouldn't want to be proactive at the VJBL - they will only be reactive when someone dies and then they will have to be accountable.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon^, any games in Maffra should be arranged at a neutral venue to accommodate both teams. Usually Maffra are pretty good about it, for those who have a long way to go. It wouldn't be in their best interests to travel 3 hours either I would think?

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anon  
Years ago

the point your all missing is its called VICTORIAN JUNIOR BASKETBALL LEAGUE.....it NOT Victorian METRO Junior Basketball League so Country teams are just as entitled to play in this as metro, if country teams wish to commit to travelling almost every week without the whinging that comes from the metro ranks because THERY have to travel once in a season occasionally twice, then country teams deserve more respect than what some metro clubs are giving them.

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HO  
Years ago

Sorry Anon, which of the "ALL" is missing that? "the point your all missing" ... try reading idiot....

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Anonymous  
Years ago

anon - why is it VC, VC reserve then METRO 1, 2 etc... THEN Regional?

Me thinks there might be some Country teams playing METRO 1, 2, 3 etc

Just sayin'

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Anonymous  
Years ago

HO - IF a player has higer level commitments, surely the lower level commitments are the ones that should be amended to accomodate them?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Actually "Metro" disappeared along time ago

VJC = Victorian Junior Championship
VJCR = Victorian Junior Championship Reserve
VJL 1 - 4 = Victorian Junior League 1 to 4
Regional = East, West & Central geographical divisions

Nothing about Metro or Country, it's all Victorian

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Bear  
Years ago

Accurate clarification anon^ it is still referred to by many as Metro in the mid range leagues, but it has been Juniour League for a few years now.

The VJBL does try to consider placing teams into regions so travel is minimised where it can, usually in the lower divisions, it can't do this in the higher ones, obviously!

Agree with HO, some posters need to read more of this thread before they comment, might help them understand what people are writing...

Reply #506288 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Accurate clarification anon^ it is still referred to by many as Metro in the mid range leagues, but it has been Juniour League for a few years now.

The VJBL does try to consider placing teams into regions so travel is minimised where it can, usually in the lower divisions, it can't do this in the higher ones, obviously!

Agree with HO, some posters need to read more of this thread before they comment, might help them understand what people are writing...

Reply #506289 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Accurate clarification anon^ it is still referred to by many as Metro in the mid range leagues, but it has been Juniour League for a few years now.

The VJBL does try to consider placing teams into regions so travel is minimised where it can, usually in the lower divisions, it can't do this in the higher ones, obviously!

Agree with HO, some posters need to read more of this thread before they comment, might help them understand what people are writing...

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Bear  
Years ago

Oops, iPad issues... Sorry for the multi post!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Actually the sad thing is by the VJBL's own charter it is no longer a representative program.

"1. Charter
1.1 Victorian Junior Basketball League:
• On behalf of Basketball Victoria conduct a graded Junior competition to cater for all levels within the state of
Victoria the highest being the Victorian State Championship and any other competitions from time to time
delegated to it by the Basketball Victoria Board;"

(All Levels) definition = Anyone can call themselves a Rep player

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Bear  
Years ago

Anon^ you have come up with a subjective and contrarian conclusion to what the Charter is actually saying to suit your own view point.

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