Tom
Years ago

36ers Roster Q

If we retain all our key players our lineup looks like:

Johnson / Schenscer
Motum / Petrie
Creek /
Gibson / Teys
Wilson* /

Where would you use the 2nd import spot? Also I'm hearing some word about Jamar getting naturalised, which leaves us with 2 import spots.

Topic #36447 | Report this topic


GWB  
Years ago

Would be great if Jamar naturalised and we could get 2 other imports. However, it wouldn't be worth looking for imports if you can only afford bargain bin imports playing in the SEABL. Just for the fact that Al Harrington considered Sydney, I would ask him because he obviously doesn't turn his nose up at Australia. But other than that, I would see what the money does. If the money is small I would rather grab some aussie college kids and see if you can polish a diamond.

Reply #514284 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

So you'd be nixing Crawford I imagine,
but will BJ be back?

Problem is that just with those players above, you could hit almost 70 points. (Or more, not sure exactly how it works.)

When does Teys "1 point" contract expire? Will they want to keep Daly?

I really doubt you would have the space to get another import, much less two.

How do the naturalisation rules work?
Wilson is in his 3rd season?

Reply #514286 | Report this post


KET  
Years ago

Johnson/Schenscher?
Petrie/
Creek/Crawford?
???/
Wilson?/Daly

Out: Teys (Brizzy), Gibson (Brizzy), Motum (Euro)

Unknown: Crawford (possible retirement), Schenscher (on cheaper deal), Wilson

Reply #514293 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

Creek is a bench player. Get an import SF to start. Why not DeAndre Daniels?

You're also assuming Schenscher would stay for a lot less money, because Adelaide should put him on about half of his current salary.

Reply #514306 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

Unless the 6ers get an influx of cash from somewhere I cant see them getting 2 imports as 1 would have to be on marquee money. Then you have the points cap to contend with. Only way that will change is if Motum makes an NBA roster.

KET, Motum has an NBA out clause not a Euro out clause. What makes you think Gibson and Teys will be off to Brisbane - thats not what I have heard?!

Reply #514310 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Issue with chasing the marquee imports is the crash of the AUD is killing our value $ for $ compared with EU/Americas/Asia.

The last few years we have been blessed at dollar for dollar but now we need to find 30% more of the pie for the US based player to get the same deal.

Reply #514315 | Report this post


Hendo8888  
Years ago

Motum/Johnson are our second 'import'. No way we would keep those 2, Gibbo, Petrie, Creek, Schenscher, Wilson and get another import.

Reply #514320 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Would be happy just to keep everyone, maybe drop crawford. I would like to see the same team come back for one once.

Reply #514325 | Report this post


Grovermister  
Years ago

Teys is expected to go to brisbane....

The club is expecting him to go but would love to see him stay...

His soon to be wife has got a Job there and they are fully supportive and understanding and respect that he MAY want to go...

however...

He has shined under Joey and knows where he sits under Joeys coaching...

Reply #514328 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If the me want to win a championship they will stay and get loyalty and contract points to build a super team as Perth has. Sixers have youth that Perth does not. I am sure they are aware this is their chance and will take it. I am sure Teys will consider this and as a young couple with no children yet they may chose to both pursue and fulfil their dreams before starting a family. It is in his hands and any regrets will be his. I do hope though that he considers where Cadee is at right now and looks at all the what ifs and the possibles. Good luck to him. He gave us an incredible display last season and has less opportunities this season but what a fabulous effort he continues to give and it is great to see his shot back on.

DJ, Creek, Gibbo, Schensh and Peach are here for the duration with Joey so Meh, not worried as long as they continue to make finals.

Reply #514331 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

FWIW, Johnson should be eligible for the 5-year loyalty discount if he returns to the 36ers next year.

Ahead of the 2014-15 season, he was rated 10 points. He'd probably get the same rating next season. So, with the discount, he'd cost the 36ers 8 points.

Reply #514336 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

PS - Creek also will be eligible for the loyalty discount next year. That would bring his rating down to 4 points, based on his 2014-15 rating of 6. However, he will probably be re-rated upwards given his improvement this season.

Reply #514337 | Report this post


alexkrad  
Years ago

Dictator Marvin will make sure DJ's European holiday will reset his loyalty eligibility

/s

Reply #514338 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

I doubt Marvin will. He wants the league to grow and part of that is having the best players playing here.

Reply #514347 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Now we are all talking and on the same page.

Reply #514353 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

I would be happy to see DJs previous service count towards a loyalty discount as he hasn't played with any other NBL team but I don't think they should count this partial year.

Reply #514354 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Melbourne doing us a favour not being inviting for players like Creek and Gibbo to be closer to home and well the Brissy thing may just backfire and fo back in to the crocs. We can't have a 9 or 11 team league and the 2nd NZ looks promising. Wait and see. Predicting all good for Sixers hence the new membership push coming early looking for committment and how funds will sit. Negotiations already underway I'll bet. Mahersy doing great thinga with the school visits generating new interest.

Reply #514355 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

"FWIW, Johnson should be eligible for the 5-year loyalty discount if he returns to the 36ers next year."

No, he left the NBL and signed elsewhere. That isn't what the loyalty discount is for.

Reply #514359 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I believe Gibbo is gone.

Reply #514360 | Report this post


Aussiebballer  
Years ago

If they lose Teys, BJ and Crawford I think they should look at some Seniors returning from college.
It would help in terms of points and salary cap squeeze.
There are a lot of solid players to choose from, ie Drimic, Greenwood, Hadziomerovic, Hill, Rowley, Trist
None of them are SA boys and some may be good enough to head to Europe, especially if they have Euro passports, but getting a couple to fill some bench roles would be great.

Reply #514361 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

Uwe Blab...he was contracted for this season originally and despite a stint OS still played for the 36ers this season making it consecutive seasons.

I dont believe players should be punished for trying to make the most of their short careers. Had DJ returned to a different club then fair enough. Returning to the 36ers is showing his alegion and loyalty.

Anon....where did you hear Gibbo is on the move?

Reply #514362 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

If DJ doesnt get the loyalty discount then he should be rated a 9 rather than a 10 in any case as he is returning from Europe.

Reply #514363 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

"I dont believe players should be punished for trying to make the most of their short careers."

No one is punishing the player. The loyalty discount is for clubs being able to retain players. That didn't happen. They built their team knowing full well that DJ wasn't a part of it.

Reply #514365 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

joey has been in conversation with DJ the entire time he has been away

Reply #514367 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

Sorry, my bad. Loyalty points should be given for anyone still in conversation with the coach.

Reply #514368 | Report this post


Murray Magpie  
Years ago

UWE BLAB = Perth fan

Rhys Martin quit the Hawks , didnt get a job and then re-signed with Hawks and got his points and loyalty renewed

DJ has precedents in his favour beyond having played in the NBL for consecutive seasons. No issue here at all for he or the 36ers

Reply #514369 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

Far out, Ozhoops might be dying but at least it isn't filled with dickheads who do nothing but point out who you support when you try and discuss something.

DJ quit the team, left the league to sign with another team in another league, then returned. Martin quit the team, didn't sign anywhere else before returning and had his loyalty discount applied. I don't actually agree with the Martin decision either but having not signed anywhere else changes things.

Reply #514374 | Report this post


Murray Magpie  
Years ago

Except DJ had a 36ers Contract in place for this season

Perth fans hate it when other teams play the game that they invented

Reply #514379 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

Its got nothing to do with whatever team I support. Seems its more of an issue for you.

So are you saying that all the time that DJ was overseas, his contract with Adelaide remained in place? If you can provide an honest answer, you then may work out why his loyalty discount shouldn't be applied.

Reply #514381 | Report this post


Murray Magpie  
Years ago

All you need to know is that DJ played for the 36ers last season and he is playing for them this season.

So any NBL player that plays SEABL or state league in your eyes doesn't comply with the rules according to you. Perth are in trouble if that is the case

Reply #514384 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

"All you need to know is that DJ played for the 36ers last season and he is playing for them this season. "

Answer the question.

"So any NBL player that plays SEABL or state league in your eyes doesn't comply with the rules according to you. Perth are in trouble if that is the case"

Wow, you are quite stupid!

Reply #514385 | Report this post


Murray Magpie  
Years ago

Resorting to insults instead of fact based arguments. Good on you.

Reply #514386 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

What, stating that DJ has been a contracted player all season is a "fact based argument" is it?

Reply #514388 | Report this post


Grovermister  
Years ago

The others are jsut scared

#36ersnation has compiled a great roster for the finals and are playing some good ball with some improvement still possible

scary for other teams in the competition

who cares what may happen next year...

its obvious Uwe Blab is worried... shouldnt you be worried about this season?

I think next season will work itself out when it does and coach and loyalty will come into it...

as a 36ers fan i am not too worried we have Joey for another season at least... sure a lot of the players would rather stay and play exciting basketball under a known coach and his system then move to another state and play under an unknown system...

#injoeywetrust

Reply #514390 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

I don't think you've even read anything thats been said in the past dozen or so posts.

Reply #514392 | Report this post


Murray Magpie  
Years ago

The combination of the mining down turn job shedding in WA and the cessation of OzHoops really has challenged the quality of posters on Hoops

Reply #514393 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

I'm at work now. Whats your excuse?

Reply #514394 | Report this post


Murray Magpie  
Years ago

I am in Belize on the back of my Riviera. Whats your excuse?

Reply #514397 | Report this post


Grovermister  
Years ago

so much love....

passion?

rivalry?

Uwe Blab... i am curious



What is perths roster going to look like next year?

Reply #514399 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Uwe at it again.... why is it every time you post it turns negative. Maybe its not a Perth fan base thing, maybe its you. It was an interesting thread till you piped up!!!

Reply #514400 | Report this post


HoldenV8  
Years ago

Murray Magpie, the difference between Martin and DJ is that after quitting the Hawks, Martin didn't play anywhere else before re-signing. After the 36rs granted DJ a release at the end of last season he went and played with Piratas de Quebradillas in Puerto Rico then Stelmet Zielona Góra in Poland before returning to Adelaide.

Although when he returned to the NBL it was with Adelaide, Uwe Blab might be correct, his stints playing overseas might count against a loyalty reward, though considering that he has appeared in consecutive seasons I hope it doesn't happen like that (common sense maybe?). But I wouldn't bet against it either, some strange rulings have been made over the years by the NBL.

Reply #514401 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

Uwe Blab - I agree there is an open question that will need to be handled by the NBL. I was basing my interpretation on the literal interpretation of the statement the NBL made last April, when announcing the revised points' system (29 April 2014).

"The NBL will offer a loyalty discount to players who have been contracted for a minimum of five consecutive seasons at the same club."

The letter of the rule itself may be different and may have conditions attached to it (e.g., what does 'contracted for a season' mean when applying the rule). No-one without access to the current rules would know that. There aren't many people in that boat but if any of them visit this forum, I'd appreciate their input on this.

In the meantime, you appear to have taken a position based on what the spirit and intention of the rule should be. Given the NBL's proclivity this season for sticking to the literal interpretations of its rules, I think that argument will fail. Both the Ross and Childress decisions prevailed over strong arguments that they were against the spirit of each of the rules concerned.

Reply #514403 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

Thank you Holden, glad someone was able to make sense of a pretty simple point without needing to play the man. I don't care if DJ does or doesn't get some discount, I just think that being released from your contract to go and sign another is not really what the loyalty discount is all about.

Reply #514404 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

Correct PeterJohn, I am basing my comments on what I believe the loyalty discount should be for. I think what DJ did falls outside that, as does the Martin discount. I think he chose to leave so it shouldn't have applied.


Reply #514405 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

"What is perths roster going to look like next year?"

Probably much the same as this year, except with at least one new import.

Reply #514406 | Report this post


swish  
Years ago

Surely Loyalty is only within the NBL. Top players have an "out clause" so they looks at options overseas in "stronger" or more financial leagues. Players doing this are not disloyal. Players who leave Adelaide to go to Perth, then to NZ are disloyal and so do not become loyal again when they decide to return to Adelaide.

Reply #514410 | Report this post


Bulldog  
Years ago

Well maybe you have to look at the DJ scenario like this.

If a player finishes their season in Australia and then heads overseas in between seasons, should his loyalty discount not apply because he played for someone in between?

Reply #514411 | Report this post


Bulldog  
Years ago

Actually, just on the subject of players going overseas while still contracted to NBL clubs, what does everyone think of the FIFA loan system, where a team gets some cash for a player they loan to another club?

I think this would be great to inject some extra funds into the league as well.

So for instance if DJ's contract was for 250k, then a Euro team wanting to sign him would pay the 36ers say even 10% so 25k. That is some compensation for losing a good player and also helps the club financially.

Reply #514412 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

"Well maybe you have to look at the DJ scenario like this.

If a player finishes their season in Australia and then heads overseas in between seasons, should his loyalty discount not apply because he played for someone in between?"

That isn't what happened though. He went overseas INSTEAD OF playing in the NBL.

Reply #514413 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

Most posters on this thread seem to have assumed the discount is for the player's loyalty to the club. It might well be a reward for the club's loyalty to the player. I think that would affect the intention or spirit of the rule argument significantly.

In the NBL release, Fraser Neill was quoted as saying "The NBL is committed to rewarding clubs who have invested in players long-term".

I think that favours discounts being awarded in teh cases of Johnson and Martin.

Reply #514414 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

Loyalty should work both ways - if Adelaide were more loyal to DJ they would have offered him more coin up front instead of giving it to Big Red.

Reply #514416 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Wow, so much anger over two points.

My interpretation of ""The NBL will offer a loyalty discount to players who have been contracted for a minimum of five consecutive seasons at the same club."" I would read that "season" means a season, and not part there of. But I don't know what the actual rule says. Anyone got a copy?
Personally, assuming he's going to stick around now, I would like to see the discount apply. It would be a shame if he had to start over again.

At the end of day, 2 points is only going to effect the signing of marginal players, its not like it gets Adelaide another import (unless he was born in Guam ;-))

Reply #514418 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

"I would like to see the discount apply. It would be a shame if he had to start over again."

Actually, thats a good point. It does seem like a waste of four years at one club. If there are only two options of applying the discount, or having it reset entirely, I'd prefer to see the former.

I'm sure the NBL hasn't thought that far ahead and the rule is just one line stating the discount in simplest terms. Perhaps for something like this, word it in a way where any season where a player isn't on the roster at the start does not count towards loyalty discounts, but it will carry over for the following season if he returns mid-season.

Reply #514420 | Report this post


Train  
Years ago

I think the intention of the loyalty discount is to reward player who stay with the same NBL club.So even tough he has been overseas, he has still stayed with the same NBL club for the last 5 years. It can be open to interpretation but I don't believe DJ or the 36ers should be penalized for DJ wanting to try overseas.

Reply #514423 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

It could be argued that DJ has been contracted to the Adelaide 36ers in the past 5 years consecutively. The rule isn't very clear and doesn't specify a full season or part there of. Unless there are sub sections to that rule then I think DJ will be awarded the loyalty discount and rightfully so in my opinion.

I think if any player goes OS but then returns to the same club then they should be entitled to the loyalty as they are being loyal to that club in the NBL. However, I think there should be a time limit attached to that like 2 years away will see your loyalty discount terminated.

Obviously any player who moves around the NBL should not be entitled to the loyalty discount should they return to the same club after playing a season with another.

It should be consecutive - not cumalitive.

Reply #514424 | Report this post


Bulldog  
Years ago

In essence he left at the end of last season, went at played overseas, then came back. Sure not at the start of the season, but he didn't go to another NBL club. And played in consecutive seasons.

Now as far as the loyalty discount goes, I agree with I think it was Uwe who suggested maybe it should count for full seasons so that he doesn't lose the time he has played previously, but he doesn't get the discount next season as he has not played five full seasons here. But would then get the discount the following season.

Just some thoughts.

Reply #514425 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

I hate to be the one to suggest but it sounds like the NBL needs to put a meaningless games limit on the time a player can be absent from a club so we can all have another discussion when the next player comes back just one game after the deadline!

Reply #514428 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

Yes Dazz, 2 points alone may not be a big deal but add it to Creek's 2 point discount and it becomes of material benefit to Adelaide.

Currently, Teys is a 1 point player to Adelaide, due to his multi-year contract. However, he's rated a 5 point player on the open market. With a 4 point discount, Adelaide are in a better position to negotiate to keep him or to replace him with a player of similar ability, if he goes elsewhere.

Reply #514429 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

Uwe Blab...why does a player have to begin the season with the club? I would have thought finishing the season with the club would hold just as much weight?

The 36ers intentions were to have DJ at the start of this season - he was contracted. However, he wanted to ply his trade OS. If things dont work out for that player OS and the club that he was contracted to and wanted him at the start of the season are able to bring him back into the team (within the rules and able to qualify for Finals) and they do, why should they be penalised the following year? Why should the club be penalised for all the development they put into him over the past 4 years?

I dont see the importance of him having to start the season? For all intent and purposes DJ has had a contract where he has been eligible for Finals in the past 5 consecutive years with the same club.

Reply #514430 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

Exactly PeterJohn.

Reply #514431 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

"Uwe Blab...why does a player have to begin the season with the club? "

Because if he is not part of the plan at the start of the season, when all rosters have to be finalised, then its not really how I would define loyalty. Others may have different views but I don't see that the two parties have been in contract with each other.

"Why should the club be penalised for all the development they put into him over the past 4 years?"

Why should the club be rewarded with discounts when he has only played with them for 4.25 seasons?

Reply #514433 | Report this post


Murray Magpie  
Years ago

@Holden V8 Redhage played in the same league along side DJ so should he have his points loyalty questioned?

The record books will show that DJ played consecutive seasons in the NBL for the same club. That is why the loyalty discount was brought in. To encourage teams ( like Perth have done) to re-sign players for continuity's sake. DJ is more valuable to the 36ers than any other NBL team because of the rule.

To play for a different league any where requires said player to be released by their NBL club to that team. The player could go anywhere they chose after that. CJ released to Europe signs with NZ anyone?

So technically their contract ends then and there when they are released. It is convenient for everyone that the player returns to that club and they pick up their contract's intent.

Tornado is correct when he says the rule doesn't specify how many games of the season must be played in.

What happens to someone who does their knee pre season and doesn't play. Do they then get penalised for not playing that season?

To further muddy the waters on this topic , how do players in Melbourne continue their loyalty with a team that is brand new to the league?

Reply #514434 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

Does anyone here get their long service leave re-credited to them when if they return to the company they originally worked for? Generally that will only happen if it's less than 3 months away. Isn't it the same principle?

Reply #514435 | Report this post


Tom  
Years ago

Haha wow this thread really took a turn for the worse. Might as well change the title to "Loyalty Discount Argument"

Reply #514436 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

Sorry Wilson, I only just saw your comment from above.

"I would be happy to see DJs previous service count towards a loyalty discount as he hasn't played with any other NBL team but I don't think they should count this partial year."

Agreed.

Reply #514437 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Unless the 6ers get an influx of cash from somewhere I cant see them getting 2 imports as 1 would have to be on marquee money.
Only if they are near the cap. You can get a good import on the cheap more easily than you can with a local. e.g., could replace Teys with an import if he went. Maybe you get a dud, maybe you get a 20 PPG scorer.

The Johnson loyalty thing would be interesting but isn't particularly cut and dried. Many players suit elsewhere in the off-season (Redhage has played in PR, I think?) but Johnson had specifically elected to play elsewhere in place of the original contract. Martin had tried to do the same.

And if you put the onus on the club to try and retain players, at what price? Maybe Martin creates some precedence, short of him actually succeeding in playing elsewhere.

Reply #514438 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The loyalty discount should apply but would be negated due to the fact he is returning from Europe yes?
The loyalty point reduction nullified due to his increased point rating for being a Euro player?

Reply #514442 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

I see your point Isaac but there arent too many imports on the cheap who put up 20ppg. I was under the impression the poster was thinking a solid import but you're right an import to replace Teys value both financially and statistically is possible. But then I would be questioning the use of the points for such a player - wouldnt be worthwhile IMO.

Reply #514445 | Report this post


cats 4 life  
Years ago

U guys have s**t for braines. He left, it's that simple, he signed a contract to play overseas, if he was still contracted that would Be different

Reply #514447 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

Cats 4 Life...what are braines?

Reply #514449 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

Unless somebody has the text of the actual rule, we are just arguing in circles.
Whilst I can't say which way the NBL would lean in an "interpretive decision,"
It would be a shame if a player who played 4.3 seasons for a team, had to reset at zero.

I'm not sure how to read the intent of the loyalty discount, but it does SEEM to be focused on the TEAM aspect. ie it doesn't reward someone who stays around the NBL, it rewards staying with the same team. (Which DJ has done.)
Clearly, playing elsewhere in the off season is not an issue, so I don't think starting this season in Europe should penalise him.
Players like Redhage routinely play O/S. If they went to a league that meant they missed the opening NBL game, should that obliterate 10 years of loyalty??? (Yes, he's in his 10th season, 4 point discount coming up.)

Ultimately, the loyalty discount makes no sense EXCEPT to encourage the re-signing of players with the same club. That is its whole purpose.
When DJ came home from Europe, he may have had choices and he CHOSE Adelaide. Loyalty.

Reply #514450 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

Good post Dazz - I agree.

Reply #514452 | Report this post


Bulldog  
Years ago

I have emailed the league to try and get the rule to stop all this fighting.

Won't somebody please think of the children?

Reply #514454 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

"Only if they are near the cap. You can get a good import on the cheap more easily than you can with a local."

I recall back in 90's, Perth had Crawford, Fisher, and Grace ALL naturalised (plus Vlahov.) Due to Salary cap they couldn't afford big buck imports.
They recalled Hansen from the SBL, and brought in Vlahov's college mate Lichti.

But I wonder how that would work in the points era?
A "Hansen" would have had a points core from his previous season, but how would you differentiate between a "Lichti" and a "Beal"? Surely both would be 10 points?
What about some of the imports who only play in the minor leagues?

Reply #514455 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Tom i agree, but its the same few guys getting all cra cra over stuff they be right about. Throw cats for life in the mix and its gone.

Reply #514458 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Have to be seen to be right about*

Reply #514459 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

Sorry Dazz but you missed the point entirely in that post.

Reply #514460 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wait til Perth fans realise Motum is only a 9 point player

Reply #514462 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

Bulldog I'm curious to see what you hear back. Might lower some blood pressure of some!

Either way, in reference to the roster, the 36ers will be very strong next season, looking forward to it!!

Reply #514466 | Report this post


Jonno  
Years ago

I would try and keep the exact same team if possible, a team that can win 9/10 games in the current stretch is worth keeping together, including Wilson who has made some positive changes to his game.

Salary cap may be a tough one, but as has been noted we do have a import spot in hand so if at worse we lose one of our main players we could probably replace them with a import who is cheaper $$ wise and may be just as good/better, so all looking positive.

Joey is a coach these guys seem to want to play for so that helps in keeping the guys,

other factors may be a 'go home' factor or another team offering big $$$ and significantly out bidding us, but surely we wouldnt lose more than 1 or 2 guys this way and 1 could be replaced by an import.

So im excited for our roster for the next few years, we should be strong baring a major unexpected walk out or something.

Reply #514475 | Report this post


Green 76  
Years ago

I would bring back the same team depending on points and salary. The question has to be asked why are we worrying about next year when we are two weeks out from semis!?

On a serious note now an underrated aspect this year was Wilson being a 9 point import - if he was a 10 point DJ wouldn't have been able to come back for BJ. And in my opinion has been just as good as Beal, Ervin etc.

Reply #514477 | Report this post


alexkrad  
Years ago

hahaha

Look what I started..

For what it's worth note the '/s' at the end of my post.

Reply #514479 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

Yeah alexrad this is all your fault, no wait Marvins, not wait yours... ahh I'm confused now haha

Reply #514480 | Report this post


Ayjay  
Years ago

DJ should be as qualified for the loyalty discount as he is to play finals.

He is as qualified to play finals as any other genuine all season player. QED

Reply #514484 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

End of discussion. Gotta respect the QED.

Reply #514486 | Report this post


cats 4 life  
Years ago

With a head like that u can keep motum, don't care if I was a 6 point player. See how he goes against bz Perth and cairns. Over rated, looks better when u win like Wilson, u guy's just jump on the bandwagon and then jump off when u lose um 7 in a row!

Reply #514489 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Once again, cats4life does represent any other Perth fan.

Reply #514490 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Tornado, sometimes I think you can be just as likely to get a competent cheap import as a flop of an expensive one. Or a selfish expensive one who won't hang around.

I imagine Rychart was once upon a time a cheap import, Redhage too. Deleon and Hudson in their first years were useful and probably around Teys' money.

I doubt Ibekwe is expensive, but has made some All-Star Five lists. 11 and 6 in 20 MPG is handy on a budget. Craig has helped Cairns off the bench.

Reply #514491 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

Cats for life don't you ever change! You're certainly on another planet.

Isaac, Rhychart, Redhage and Ballinger as far as I recall all were initially cut then picked up cheap and ended up being solid. So the diamond in the rough import is out there, perhaps as teams become more savvy just harder to find.

Reply #514505 | Report this post


cats 4 life  
Years ago

Thanks for telling me, just actually think what u say before u write. Sick and tired of the anti wildcats/Perth supporters are feral crap! If u we're in the position we are in u will write and think different.

We got high expectations of our team and supporters, yea I get amped up, but it shits me to tears when people bag and that Marvin and reffs crap.

Reply #514506 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

This is a thread about the 36ers roster.... So your sensitivities aren't warranted or required here.

Reply #514508 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

Can NZ get a discount for Jackson?
He only left for one season and didn't play much due to injury and came back so that's loyal?
Plus he didn't play for another NBL team so it must almost be consecutive?

Reply #514515 | Report this post


KET  
Years ago

No, because he's playing for NZ

Reply #514517 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

of course Jackson is eligible for loyalty discounts, just produce a box score from last season where he was on the team sheet and off you go.

Reply #514521 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

Mystro, Jackson missed a whole season. However, had he of come back mid last season because you wanted to cut Johnson then I would have no issues with it. To be honest, I dont really have any issues with him receiving the loyalty discount after missing a year. After all, he is being loyal to NZ in this league.

Reply #514525 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

Isaac...I agree with you. I guess I am just a little sceptical because the 36ers havent had much luck in finding that diamond in the rough previously. You are right though, you can get a diamond in the rough just as much as you can get a flop but there is probably a greater risk in attempting to get that diamond in the rough. I guess it comes down to the role you need that import to play and how much you have to spend.

Reply #514527 | Report this post


Jonno  
Years ago

You can often get good value for money from imports who have played in the league aswell if you find a guy that fits the role that you want

Guys like
Josh Pace
Torrey Craig
Lance Hurdle
Scott Morrison, etc

Could all play a role in the NBL if they suit your need and you wouldnt have to break the bank to get them,

Probably less upside in getting those guys, but you know what you are getting and can be fairly sure they wont be a complete bust.

Reply #514528 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

I was trolling :)

Reply #514530 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

"After all, he is being loyal to NZ in this league."

So Kirk Penney too then?

Reply #514535 | Report this post


garvs  
Years ago

I have no problems with dj getting a loyalty discout, in the end he will have qualified for finals and played on the one team.

Jackson is more iffy since he did not play last year in the nbl, but i say if they play on the same team once back then just remove that year they missed and continue with the discount once they reach year 5 of playing in the same team

Its like if someone gets injured for entire year and does not play a single game should they be eligable too... I think thry should

Would be interesting to know the rules and regulations about it

Reply #514536 | Report this post


KingJames  
Years ago

"Its like if someone gets injured for entire year and does not play a single game should they be eligable too... I think they should"

That is a different situation because that player is still contracted to the club and obviously being paid by the club.

Reply #514543 | Report this post


seriously  
Years ago

Does loyalty really include imports ??? Weird.

Looking at the rules. DJ yes, Jackson no. sorry !

Reply #514544 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

""After all, he is being loyal to NZ in this league."

So Kirk Penney too then?"

that was to be my next argument ;)

Reply #514546 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Tornado, if the alternative is a bench player and you have spare import spots to use, and points available, it's not a bad option. We're talking about gambling on spots that would otherwise go to Crawford, I guess. With Brisbane, this sort of thing might be more important.

Reply #514549 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

TBH NZ doesn't currently have any issues in regards to the points cap as we have loyalty discounts in place along with young guys like TeRangi signed on long term contracts at their Rookie points value.

Reply #514550 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

Yeah, I hear ya Isaac. :-)

Reply #514551 | Report this post


annonymous  
Years ago

Back to Sixers roster next season. Might be reading in to it a little but the Sixers new membership drive out on FB with pic of Gibbo front and centre and Creek and Teys in the background.

Reply #514552 | Report this post


Uwe Blab  
Years ago

"Looking at the rules. "

What rules? Can you please post the rule you referred to?

Reply #514553 | Report this post


Hendo8888  
Years ago

National pride is a lot stronger than state pride. So NZ will never have problems with the points cap. More often than not, if an NZ local plays in the NBL, it's for the Breakers.
Whereas Aussies have 7 different Australian teams to choose from. Can't see too many players saying 'Wollongong/Cairns/Townsville is my home, I want to play for them if I can'. But the majority of NZ players have that mentality.

Reply #514558 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

that and the Breakers made most of them the players they are through the academy and then development spots on the roster, building even more loyalty to the franchise.

Reply #514563 | Report this post


annonymous  
Years ago

The NBL will offer a loyalty discount to players who have been contracted for a minimum of five consecutive seasons at the same club. Players are afforded a two-point discount (from a ranking between 1-10) in their sixth season at the club. Any players who have been contracted at the same club for 10 consecutive seasons are entitled to a four-point discount off their ranking in their 11th year.

The Key being 'contracted for a minimum of five consecutive seasons at the same club'

Same Club - Say the Sixers
Consecutive Seasons - NBL 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 - 2015 2 point discount. Regardless of what you have done in between.

Add in Contract points players can greatly reduce their point value such as Peach and Teys are carrying reduced points for multi year contracts


Current loyalty reductions are
Blanchfield
Coenraad
Davidson
Martin (Both)
Redhage
Wagstaff
Abercrombie
Pledger


Contract reductions
Johnson (used the out clause)
Tragadh
Gliddon
Weigh
Young
Webster
Te Rangi
Odigie
Tomlinson
Ellie
White
Hire
Norton

Think I have it right.

Reply #514569 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

The multi-year contract reductions only really apply if your player points value goes up. I don't think that would be the case for Weigh and Tragardh, they've stayed about the same. Alternatively the multi-year contract could work against the team if the player's stock goes down.

Reply #514579 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

Add Mika Vukona and I believe next season Corey Webster may meet the criteria (not sure what influence the suspension may have on his eligibility).

Reply #514584 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

"The multi-year contract reductions only really apply if your player points value goes up. I don't think that would be the case for Weigh and Tragardh, they've stayed about the same. Alternatively the multi-year contract could work against the team if the player's stock goes down. "

Didn't that happen with Schenscher?

Reply #514594 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

"The NBL will offer a loyalty discount ..."
But what are you quoting? Seems like the same release we saw earlier? Would be useful to see the actual rule?

"The Key being 'contracted for a minimum of five consecutive seasons at the same club'"

As I've said, I have no problem with DJ. He's played 4 full seasons, and now maybe another third.
But what if you had a player who signed a 5 year contract, used an out clause to play in Europe, and never actually played during those 5 years.

Just saying that we need to see the rules, not keep arguing about our own interpretations of a release.

Reply #514595 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Weigh and Tragardh havent been at Cairns for 5 seasons. in fact most of the players listed by "aaonymous" haven't been in the NBL for 5 years let alone with the same team


Reply #514619 | Report this post


annonymous  
Years ago

619 - listed as contract not loyalty so all about their current team contract. Read the entire page you numnut !!!

And while you are at it contact the players Association to correct them because the info ifs rom them. Good luck with that one...

Reply #514635 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

My bad, should have worked out you were bringing in a totally irrelevant piece of information not related to the topic, was about the topic in your view

Reply #514638 | Report this post


Bulldog  
Years ago

Just thought I would update you on my request for the Player Points loyalty discount rules from the NBL that I emailed them about on Tuesday.



There we go, informative update. Yes, I have not heard back from them, not even a we can't give you that info or we will find that info for you. Nothing. No reply.

Reply #514950 | Report this post




 

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