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Anonymous
Two years ago

#38288

Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

I'm thinking the cats made a mistake letting Dennis go. Impressed that he had kept the crocs more than competitive over the past seasons despite having the most unprofessional management above him from all accounts and a shoe string budget.
His offense are quite modern and put limited players in positions to succeed. Meanwhile Gleeson offense is like having teeth pulled.

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mystro
Two years ago
09:45 24 Oct 15

Reply #557721

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

In my opinion yes, Gleeson was made to look good by James Ennis in his championship with Perth.


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Anon
Two years ago
09:47 24 Oct 15

Reply #557722

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Dennis is a smarter coach than Gleeson and he and Bevo made a great team and that partnership is showing what Shawn is doing with Townsville.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
09:51 24 Oct 15

Reply #557723

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

People complained about norton and Henry getting open threes but that was good structured offense with some weakside movement to spot up locations reacting to the collapse of the D once the primary ball handler attacks off the on ball screen. Normally jett and he made some great passes too.

Meanwhile cats offense is that crappy two high screens horns set which is predictable ends up with beal being trapped and then cats chucking up some crap worth the clock winding down. Lucky mattv knight was inspired last night or it would've been even uglier


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Callisto 75
Two years ago
10:15 24 Oct 15

Reply #557730

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

I like Shawn Dennis appears to have a good balance between X's and O's and firing guys. The only thing I don't like about him is he subs too much but that's more to do with his style of play I think. Great guy too. Gleeson did good Townsville and his first year in Perth but seems to have stalled I think


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Anon
Two years ago
10:22 24 Oct 15

Reply #557734

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Meanwhile, Gleeson made playoffs every year while in Townsville with undermanned teams and has won a championship in Perth. Both good coaches. Christ, one win and Dennis becomes a great coach.


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MACDUB
Two years ago
10:22 24 Oct 15

Reply #557735

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Dennis runs a decent offense and they manage to get generally excellent looks..their ocassional lack of offense comes from a lack of making the shot but they certainly don't struggle to get the look in the first place.

Perth run a terribly slow offense with limited ball movement and when the ball does move players hold onto it for too long. They catch and take too long to decide instead of just firing the ball on and moving.


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paul
Two years ago
10:25 24 Oct 15

Reply #557736

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Don't forget Perth were sabotaged by injuries last year, and were 2-0 before last night losing with Martin, Prather and then Jawai out.

I like Dennis as a coach,he does a lot of nice things, but I don't think he's quite put it all together, his Crocs teams look brilliant at times and break down badly at others.

Whether that's a talent issue, changing rosters each year or some chinks in what Dennis runs I'm not sure, but I think it reflects on his ability to drill his team somewhat. If he could iron them out he'd be doing a great job with the Crocs, who have beaten some far more talented teams over the past three years.


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Mick
Two years ago
10:36 24 Oct 15

Reply #557739

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

As someone who has watched both guys during their stints in Townsville, Gleeson is the better coach.

Despite his outwardly laidback appearance, Dennis grates on veterans and then they tune him out so he needs to have a young team. He has very questionable rotations and lineups, and has trouble getting his teams up for big games. I also don't like the way he allocates shots and plays: he seems to force the wrong guys into shouldering the offensive load most nights (eg. trying to run plays through Mickell Gladness or Clint Steindl ad infinitum). His teams have been consistently terrible on the defensive end and not great on offense either.

Gleeson on the other hand is solid in most areas, but not particularly great.

Paul Woolpert is better than both of them, but that's another story.

Leaguewide everyone goes on about how Shawn Dennis is a smart coach but as someone who has watched him very closely I really fail to see what they're talking about. Poor defense, poor offense, poor rotations, blown leads, veteran players hate him, guys' roles are poorly defined so they play inconsistently, schemes not suiting the abilities of the playing roster. And I'm sitting here and scratching my head trying to think about what parts of the game he coaches well.

I feel he is trading somewhat on his reputation as Rob Beveridge's lead assistant during Perth's dominant run.

I'm not saying he's terrible, but he isn't this "great coach getting the most out of an under-matched team" that everyone outside of North Queensland makes him out to be. People watch so little of the Townsville games that their capacity for analysis of their performance is somewhat limited.

Case in point: up until Blanchfield moved to Melbourne just this season, "Mitch Creek or Todd Blanchfield?" was a legitimate debate to have for lots of NBL fans.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
10:40 24 Oct 15

Reply #557741

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Were Perth sabotaged by injuries last year? I thought it was just the annual matt knight injury which has happened every year since he's joined the club. The main problem last season was poor chemistry which is partly the coachs fault too


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Mick
Two years ago
10:42 24 Oct 15

Reply #557743

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Also... Dennis had something like six plus 40% 3 pt shooters on his roster last year (going in to the season...which is unprecedented / borderline insane and should have been unguardable most nights) and failed to leverage that into any kind of success on the offensive end.

Each one of those guys went on to turn in poor shooting seasons individually because Dennis never ran plays for shooters, so guys were always shooting off the dribble. That team could have been a nightmare and instead their entire game plan was "get it into Brian Conklin or Mickell Gladness and let them go one on one".

This year his team is really bad on paper so any success he has will be a great effort, and full credit should go to him...

...but I really hated what he did with that roster last year.


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Anon
Two years ago
10:44 24 Oct 15

Reply #557744

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

@anonymous: did you watch the playoffs last year? Cats were down to 5 players at one point so yes, I'd called that plagued!


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Anonymous
Two years ago
10:52 24 Oct 15

Reply #557747

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Just read that the cats tally of 35p in the final three quarters is their worst in the history of the club. That should give you insight into how bad the offense was. If Gleeson breaks our playoff record as well he must go


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Isaac
Two years ago
11:33 24 Oct 15

Reply #557755

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Reminded me of how Clarke's 36ers could beat Perth with Radford's knowledge of the Wildcat's team tactics, but not necessarily beat anyone else.


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Luuuc
Two years ago
12:45 24 Oct 15

Reply #557769

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Can't say I particularly rate either one.

What's the better type of patty to have in your burger - chick pea or lentil?


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Kobe24
Two years ago
13:10 24 Oct 15

Reply #557775

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Ive heard rumbles over Gleeson for a few years, he has one of the most annoying faces in basketball. Always looks like he is squeezing out a fart, but for last nights game, not much he could've done. Perth were severely undermanned, and had that 17 point lead when things were running through Jawai. Once he went down, and the Crocs to their credit didn't give up, the game changed.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
13:52 24 Oct 15

Reply #557776

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Gleeson is so gruff wtf is his problem.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
14:09 24 Oct 15

Reply #557783

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Anyone is a better coach than Gleeson


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Julienn Giii
Two years ago
14:09 24 Oct 15

Reply #557784

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Hi guys !!!!
Do you think guys, that Perth could win on Hawks 'arena ?
News of Nate Jawai ?
Off for tommorow game ?


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Anonymous
Two years ago
15:37 24 Oct 15

Reply #557792

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

I have no additional information but you would have to say jawai will miss given it is only a short turnaround and he essentially didn't play the whole second half. He was icing up his knee during the second half and given how conservative the cats have with their injured players thus far i would guess he will miss


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
15:53 24 Oct 15

Reply #557793

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Matty Neilsen might suit up


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LV
Two years ago
23:38 24 Oct 15

Reply #557911

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

I rate Gleeson a poor to average NBL coach, but that's mostly due to his time in Melbourne. If I remember correctly; some players got quite disgruntled playing for him.

I remember watching a preseason game that year and being decidedly unimpressed when he gave Lucas Walker a spray which was easy to hear (empty gym), very unconstructive and mean spirited. So I was kind of off the Gleeson train before it even left the station.

I wasn't impressed with 2014 because Ennis was easily the best individual in the comp, and they had easily the best roster. They did what I expected which was win the championship.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
23:43 24 Oct 15

Reply #557913

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

2014 was effectively NZ vacating the Championship due to no Cedric Jackson. Gleeson rode that plus having a Bevo system/Aussie core and stud import.


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Dazz
Two years ago
23:56 24 Oct 15

Reply #557918

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Perth were short two of their starting 5, then lost Jawai. That brought them back within reach of the Crocs.
Without Schensy, Dennis knew he couldn't match Perth inside, but knew we were vulnerable outside, so he ran his 3-point shooters and nailed our arse to the wall.
Blind Freddy could see that coming, although perhaps not how effective it would be, yet our perimeter defence still sucked.
Gleeson's default play of "just give it to Beal" has been wearing thin for a while, and killed us last night.

Whose call was it to start running down the clock, when the game was still up for grabs?

At the end of the night, when the game was on the line, Dennis got the ball to his guys who could score, we had the ball in the hands of Hire.

And WTF was up with that last play? We have all seen games where the last seconds take 5 minutes of foul shooting. All the Cats needed to do was take the easy 2 offered early, then foul on the inbound pass, and hope for a miss. Instead they kept kicking it back out looking for a triple.


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LV
Two years ago
23:57 24 Oct 15

Reply #557919

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

The league was at a fairly low point compared to now. The Tigers and Wollongong teams, who finished 3rd and 4th and won 15 and 13 games would both be lucky to finish higher than 7th this season. Certainly neither would even be in finals consideration. And Gleeson had, at that point what was *easily* the best import combination in the competition, and a strong Aussie group who had mostly been playing together there for 4 years. Anything less than a championship would have been a disappointment.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
00:03 25 Oct 15

Reply #557921

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Great point LV not just NZ but as a whole it wasn't as hard a league to win. Bevo deserved more than one trophy when you see Gleeson with one as well on the back of the former's system and import luck.

Also in Townsville Gleeson was going feral on players especially on Homicide harshly.


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LV
Two years ago
00:10 25 Oct 15

Reply #557922

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Well if my memory is correct both Dillon and Tragardh (the captain) requested early terminations of multi year contracts, and the rumour was that they were refusing to play for Gleeson anymore.

Then Gleeson was sacked later, and Anstey took over...


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fan
Two years ago
11:27 25 Oct 15

Reply #557984

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Gleason is a terrible coach from what I have seen. His offense is stymied, inefficient and downright ugly.

The wildcats always require an insanely massive mismatch inside in their favour for their offense to have a focal point and a place to run thru.. Witness Jawai in 1st Qtr and vs 36ers.

As the wildcats scored 80% of their 1st qtr points from paint and fee throw line, the Crocs employed a defense based on keeping as many defenders as possible in the paint and slowly relied in the Cats who continued to pound it inside and shoot forced and tough (albeit close in) shots against multiple defenders. Low shooting %'s high turnovers followed.

The best and only Wildcats offense the past 2 seasons is scoring from their great defense and in transition.

Being a coach I know full well that Gleeson has ripped off the plays and an offensive system from a certain national team the Aussie boomers were playing recently.. The problem is that he has not yet figured out that X's and O's are not what makes this a brilliant play but it is the way the players play within the system.

Also Mr Gleeson the zone offense is designed for great 3pt shooters in wings and corners- Hire does not qualify, so don't play him in the 3pt shooters position when Crocs surround Knight and Jervis with 3 defenders.

Ripping off a euro system only works if you give your players the latitude to play with the freedom that the euro players do.
If you want to run euro plays, you need to think like a euro coach, pretty simple right?

Can someone tell him this because I am sick and tired of watching them score 50 points in 40 mins with nba talent on the floor when I can get juniors to score 100 points in that time very easily just playing two man game pick and roll.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
11:37 25 Oct 15

Reply #557987

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

^ Great insight fan tell us more.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
11:41 25 Oct 15

Reply #557989

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Yes I agree I would love to hear more about how Kenny and Hire are NBA talent so that we can lock them in to long term contracts before Golden State get their hands on them.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
11:46 25 Oct 15

Reply #557993

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Well someone completely missed the point.

A coach who copies/steals a playbook but doesn't understand the components or have the temperament to run it is seriously amateur hour in a pro league. Seriously dodgy. Great replacement for Bevo lol. Wildcats think they are professional but the coaching recruitment was massively shoddy.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
11:50 25 Oct 15

Reply #557997

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

My prediction: Matt Nielsen will be head coach by Xmas.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
11:53 25 Oct 15

Reply #557999

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

There will be a happy ending eventually - Bevo to a talented Boomers and Nick shown the door from basketball.


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fan
Two years ago
14:09 25 Oct 15

Reply #558049

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Lol.. Please don't take my comments out of context. Surely you could consider Jawai and maybe at a stretch Prather an nba level talent. This would be the most talented wildcat team in recent memory.

Let's just say to play a certain style of game you require a certain style of player- namely playmakers and shooters and post player.The wildcats have to many guys who are neither. All they have is post players as far as scorers go. Kenny is good as a backup, at least he can hit a 3. Hire/ wagstaff and RedHage are the same type of player, we only need two of them and get another gun shooter. That would be a big help.


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Tim
Two years ago
16:37 25 Oct 15

Reply #558197

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Will done coach gleeson out coached bevo


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Anon
Two years ago
19:41 25 Oct 15

Reply #558239

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

@fan- please learn to spell and punctuate at the very least if you're going to think you're a better coach than Gleeson. I can't stand fickle fans like you that coach from the sidelines. If you think you can do a better job, off you go to apply for the job. Hope your resume is as stellar as Gleesons.


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wildcats80
Two years ago
19:59 25 Oct 15

Reply #558244

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Wow so many trolls here on this page. Friday night down 2 starters and had an off night and its world war 3. Look at todays performance, down 2 starters, Jawai fouled out, and winning against a star studded hawks team on their own court, 2 day break compared to 8 days.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:10 25 Oct 15

Reply #558265

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

COACHES ARE COACHES, BUT THEY ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THEIR PLAYERS...CASE CLOSED.

Shawn dennis always does a good job with the teams he's had,but how many finals has he been in? Gleeson is a good coach, but always has good players, in some instances you don't have to coach. Gleeson walked into an established team and won a championship.


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Anon
Two years ago
21:59 25 Oct 15

Reply #558283

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

I agree 98%. I disagree that Gleeson always has good players. He had undermanned teams in Townsville and made 5 straight playoffs. Clarify if I'm wrong but Townsville haven't made playoffs since he left.


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koberulz
Two years ago
22:26 25 Oct 15

Reply #558291

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Townsville made the playoffs in 2012, when Gleeson was coaching Melbourne.


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Anon
Two years ago
22:43 25 Oct 15

Reply #558299

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Fair call, they made it with Woolpert, my bad.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
09:51 26 Oct 15

Reply #558355

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Mick you had me until you said Woolpert was a good coach... woah! You needed to be closer to the action.

Gleeson has a very good history of making his teams reach their potential and beyond. If he had any money to spend while he was here in townsville, we would have won a championship. We were a mobile phone away from securing Mark Worthington during the season one year and the ceo wouldn't agree!

Dennis is actually on track to having the worst coaching record in Townsville history!


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paul
Two years ago
11:38 26 Oct 15

Reply #558379

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

My records have Mark Bragg at 33%, and so far Dennis is at 37%. If that's right I think the Crocs would have to go 4-18 the rest of the season for him to drop below Bragg.


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Double Clutch
Two years ago
12:03 26 Oct 15

Reply #558386

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

To the anon above, love to know why you thought Woolpert isn't a good coach.

All I remember from his time in charge is his amazing variety of late game sets out of time-outs. In the final few possesions he was probably the best in the league. Not sure about the rest of the game however but from what I remember he didnt have much to work with.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
13:36 26 Oct 15

Reply #558409

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Paul - are you saying that isn't going to happen? I'd say that's on track.C'mon how many wins did you have the Crocs pencilled in for this season? somewhere around 5-8?


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sagemania
Two years ago
13:37 26 Oct 15

Reply #558411

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Nope.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
15:49 26 Oct 15

Reply #558442

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

"We were a mobile phone away from securing Mark Worthington during the season one year and the ceo wouldn't agree!"

Ex school principal CEO ftw.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
15:51 26 Oct 15

Reply #558443

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Gleeson is nothing special, but when the Cats win it's like omg how can you be questioning him etc. Fact is he inherited a lot and had a star import one season. But wins will always cloud everyone's perceptions. Whether he won both, lost both, or went 1-1 like he did over the weekend nothing has changed about him.


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paul
Two years ago
16:19 26 Oct 15

Reply #558453

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

From 2-4 after five road games and the top team at home it would certainly be a turn up to go 4-18 from here. It's possible, but a long long way from "on track".


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fan
Two years ago
22:11 26 Oct 15

Reply #558582

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

#239 if you don't like my opinion tune out.
I never said any of the crap you claim, try stick to facts before you make false accusations and revealing to the world your true IQ.
I just shared my opinion. Its not my fault if it is a far more informed opinion than yours.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
09:35 27 Oct 15

Reply #558631

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

how many wins did you have them pencilled in for Paul?


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paul
Two years ago
10:21 27 Oct 15

Reply #558640

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

If they lived up to their talent I had them in the 8-10 range. Nothing I've seen so far has changed that, while they've been very up and down they are highly competitive when clicking.

Are you changing tack because you didnt bother to check Bragg's career record? ;-)


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
10:26 27 Oct 15

Reply #558643

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

I'm not a massive fan of Gleeson but one of the adjustments he made from Friday night was give the ball-handling duties to other guys not named Beal. Instead of seeing Beal trapped at half court and the offence suffering, Kenny, Hire and Redhage did what they needed to do to beat the press so when Beal got the ball in the front court, the team was often in a 4 on 3, or 3 on 2 situation. 25 points and 7 assists was the result.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
11:27 27 Oct 15

Reply #558654

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

i know exactly what Bragg's record is: 32.93%

You didnt answer my question - that was all.

I had/have them pencilled in for 6 wins


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:50 27 Oct 15

Reply #558673

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Has Gleeson ever cracked a smile? Serious question.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
16:12 27 Oct 15

Reply #558732

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Have a look at the start of the Perth v Illawarra game Sunday just gone - just before tipoff Matt Neilsen cracks a joke to Gleeson and they both lose it.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
17:38 27 Oct 15

Reply #558743

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Really? Will have to check the replay as Nielsen is another one - but even worse than Gleeson as he doesn't seem to have the necessary facial structure to smile. Always has that dopey look on his face.

The joke was probably really crude like "yer nah mate these refs are fked aye"


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Supernintendo Chalmers
Two years ago
20:02 27 Oct 15

Reply #558764

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

They both laughed a bit, I would have said that either of them lossed it.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
20:05 27 Oct 15

Reply #558766

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

I think sometimes we might be a bit hard on Gleeson. Yes i do think he lacks charisma and his grumpiness would wear on the players. However he's not always grumpy and the players generally play hard for him. There were some games last year where that didn't look the case and i wondered if he'd lost the team but do far this year the team has played very hard and appears to have their chemistry back. Perhaps daniels and ross were a problem, Marvin alluded to it


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Baller
Two years ago
23:38 29 Oct 15

Reply #559699

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

I never agree with the whole 'he inherited a championship team'. No, he didn't. Bevo didn't win the previous year then Gleeson gets hired and finds Ennis and Beal and wins a championship. Credit where credit is due. He's a great bloke and a family man with a helluva good resume.


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paul
Two years ago
01:13 30 Oct 15

Reply #559726

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

He inherited the best core roster in the competition and was smart enough not to change e way they play and let the players drive the car as much as possible, pulling them up when they didnt meet the standards they set for themselves.

Gleason has never been a good Xs and Os coach, but there's a lot more to it than that and you can't call a guy who's never missed the playoffs a bad coach. His teams have almost always defended well with high intensity and that's a great start.

Dennis has some great Xs and Os and by the end of seasons seems to get his teams playing well, creating space offensively and disrupting defensively to slow opponents down (which works much better for them than when they disrupt trying to create turnovers).

His teams don't produce consistently which begs the question about how well drilled they are, as does the number of brain explosion moments they have, but you can't say he has done a bad job to have got 10 and 11 wins out of budget Crocs teams.


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koberulz
Two years ago
01:40 30 Oct 15

Reply #559736

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Gleeson missed the playoffs with Melbourne in 2012.


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paul
Two years ago
01:56 30 Oct 15

Reply #559737

re: Is shawn Dennis a superior coach to Gleeson?

Indeed, I obviously excused him that one because he was McPeaked!


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