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Anonymous
Last year

#39994

Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

It's the Western Bulldogs visiting the Sydney Swans for the 2016 Premiership.

Who ya got, and why?

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Jack Toft
Last year
21:37 30 Sep 16

Reply #600197

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

It's Footscray vs South Melbourne!


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Anonymous
Last year
22:19 30 Sep 16

Reply #600200

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Glad its off topic


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LV
Last year
07:16 1 Oct 16

Reply #600210

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Hoping Doggies get up. It would be one of the best fairy tale stories I've ever seen in pro sports.

Tipping Swans in a tight one. So consistent all year, deep midfield and Buddy loves the big stage. First quarter is key, after past couple of weeks


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Spot up
Last year
07:51 1 Oct 16

Reply #600211

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Hope the Bulldogs win, but expect the swans will.


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Luuuc
Last year
13:04 1 Oct 16

Reply #600229

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

^ ditto. Tipping the Swans.
Would love the dogs to get up but I like both teams so the only bad outcome for me today is if it turns into a blowout.


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Slobodon
Last year
14:31 1 Oct 16

Reply #600240

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Buddy has tweaked his ankle early, doesn't look right.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:28 1 Oct 16

Reply #600243

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Thrilling first half. Swans starting to work their way on top late.


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Slobodon
Last year
17:08 1 Oct 16

Reply #600250

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

The fairytale is complete! First Leicester City, now the bulldogs!


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7 time champs
Last year
17:37 1 Oct 16

Reply #600254

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Next Townsville crocodiles will win the championship


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Luuuc
Last year
18:01 1 Oct 16

Reply #600257

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

If the doggies can do it from 7th then why not.

Go crocs go!!

Awesome GF.

Ok, basketball time now.


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Anonymous
Last year
20:47 1 Oct 16

Reply #600271

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

One of the best grand finals in ages, well done Bulldogs. BTW coming from 7th wasn't the biggest feat, it was defeating four teams including last year's grand finalists, last three years premiers and winning in three states that was incredible.

The bye round helped to even the competition and both Sydney & Footscray had to play the same amount of games, even if Swans started first on the ladder, they reality is that their run was the same as the Bulldogs because the lost their first final.

Now we just need the Storm to win the NRL this Sunday to also 'stick it up em' and the weekend is perfect!


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LV
Last year
23:19 1 Oct 16

Reply #600286

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Just incredible.

The most amazing premiership win of my lifetime. Astounding for several reasons.

So much history has been made. Records have tumbled.

All the records are fantastic (7th position, interstate finals, 62 year drought, 55 year GF drought), but more impressive is their ability to keep winning in the face of adversity with so many injuries continually happening.

The dynasties in recent history- Brisbane, Geelong and Hawthorn- rarely, if ever, had more than 1 or 2 of their best 22 players unavailable come grand final day. The Dogs were missing their captain plus a stack of other players, and this was happening all year and they kept winning.

17 of today's 22 are aged 25 or less. Add Crameri, Cloke, into the mix, get all the injured players back and they'll be very strong next year. Should be right up there for 5+ years


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Anonymous
Last year
23:25 1 Oct 16

Reply #600287

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Good effort by the Bulldogs, but let's not forget it's still easier for a Victorian club to pull it off because they get to steal home advantage away from the higher ranked team for the Grand Final. Looked like massive support at the G today for the Dogs.

Same thing happened last year when the Eagles had to travel across the country to Hawthorn's home ground even though they were the higher ranked team. Still a league that favours the Victorian clubs.


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LV
Last year
00:27 2 Oct 16

Reply #600293

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Yes, it's not a truly national competition (even though the league has given both Sydney sides plus Gold Coast all kinds of concessions in the interests of growing the game and getting ratings in the big Northern markets)


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Slobodon
Last year
14:22 2 Oct 16

Reply #600319

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Yep, was glad to see the dogs beat the gws "#1 picks" giants. The fact that gold coast are so bad despite all their concessions speaks to their mismanagement and poor club culture


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Anonymous
Last year
16:08 2 Oct 16

Reply #600325

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

When there's another ground that can hold 100,000 people then maybe they can get the grand final.


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S3xy and you know it clap
Last year
01:26 3 Oct 16

Reply #600339

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

ANZ Stadium (The Olympic Stadium) in Sydney is a huge stadium. If it was good enough for the Olympics, then it is probably good enough for the GF. It's not about size, it's about Victorian bias.


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Spot up
Last year
06:27 3 Oct 16

Reply #600341

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

There's not much home ground advantage for the bulldogs playing at the MCG, it's not their homeground.

Also, ANZ is horrible for Aussie Rules as the surface is never up to scratch, it's too inconsistent through winter. That's why there probably won't be any more games there at all as I understand it.


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BigAds
Last year
06:33 3 Oct 16

Reply #600342

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Off topic on an off topic thread but I might put some money on Cairns to take the Dr. to FNQ.

Cavaliers, Leicester City, Western/Footscray Bulldogs and now the Cronulla Sharks.

#yearofthedroughtbreaking


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S3xy and you know it clap
Last year
10:31 3 Oct 16

Reply #600344

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Mate, there was an advantage playing there. Just look at the crowd. It was 100,000 and probably at least 70 per cent of it were Dogs fans. I wasn't at the game but commentators who had been to several grand finals kept talking about the amazing atmosphere and support created by those fans. Also, the Dogs wouldn't have had to travel and get to stay in their home town. Advantages of sleeping in your own bed etc. So even if they prefer Etihad Stadium as a ground, there was definitely an advantage.


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spot up
Last year
10:49 3 Oct 16

Reply #600347

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

I didn't say there was no advantage, just not as much as you'd think as I don't think they played there too often during the year. Sydney had both won and lost GFs in the past few years, so they knew what they were in for.

Probably the same situation that the Storm faced playing at ANZ.


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Bear
Last year
11:40 3 Oct 16

Reply #600349

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

I was blown away at how good the two big football grand finals were this weekend. Sure the Storm went down and the Swans also got drowned out by a local team backed by huge local support, but there were some incredible moments and I just want to touch on them.

The codes and the fans were the winners, no one can take away the importance and nostalgia created for teams from traditional football/league heartlands that have waiting over half a century for ultimate glory.

Some unbelievable sportsmanship and humility was shown in post game acts and speeches, worthy of the amazing results and inspirational to those watching.

The Bulldogs have an opportunity to build a culture, based on the selfless act of their coach giving away his medal to the team's injured captain and inspirational leader. They should mount a famed image of them over the cup and build on that to foster that spirit of selflessness for future generations.

The Storm captain Cam Smith, with his humble and sportsmanlike acknowledgement of the first premiership win for Cronulla and what it means to their club, their fans and the shire speak volumes for a man hated by so many NSW faithful. Yet in a place that suffered race riots years ago, such words can sometimes be a powerful incentive for people to come together and the crowd's reaction in that instance is testament to how respected this guys should be in so called 'enemy territory'.

Yes, the AFL and NRL will always have a heartland and home base for their respective grand final games, as they should. The best team will usually win, no hard feelings and no remorse or regrets, just tough and hard fought contests that will live on in history.

Some things the NBL can look at as its league establishes itself once again is how a culture of rivalry and loyalty between fans and clubs can be built, because that's where the foundations and future success of a league are formed!

There is always next year...


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Anonymous
Last year
11:49 3 Oct 16

Reply #600352

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Both the swans and the storm copped a few crook decisions that would've probably not been given or called in their favour at SCG or AAMI park. Why is it better for the Nbl, Nba to give the minor premier home court advantage because they get the home town decisions.


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Bear
Last year
11:55 3 Oct 16

Reply #600354

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Anon^, surely you cannot compare a basketball court with the MCG or the equivalent in NSW, why even the NFL plays its Superbowl at different venues every year, based on certain specifications and agreements that make the venue equal to the occasion.

Based on your theory Geelong should hold the grand final if they are the top team, but even I can see the stupidity of that reasoning!

Just to clarify, neither grand final this weekend was won or lost on decisions made or not made, seriously you have to be kidding, right??


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Jack Toft
Last year
13:00 3 Oct 16

Reply #600359

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Great post Bear.

I think the results in both leagues were great for their respective leagues.

Cronulla has been one of those teams plagued with controversy over the years and has always been an also ran team despite having some great players. (e.g. ET) The area itself has a large cultural mix and this win can be used to unite that area.

Despite covering basically the western half of Melbourne, the Western Bulldogs has struggle with poor membership, talk of moving interstate etc. It has been the battlers team and over the last 16 seasons has played finals 6 times and over the last 25 seasons has averaged 22,000 members and 25,000 to their games, which is quite low in AFL standards.

I've always maintained that a great league is a fair league and when the success is shared around, it keeps fans interested. Leagues where one or two teams dominate are just boring.

Both wins are great for both leagues and I think both teams (and areas) will ride on their success.


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getreal
Last year
14:23 3 Oct 16

Reply #600361

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

the free kicks in the Swans Dogs game were a disgrace. In the order of 12-4 at half time and finished at 20-8 dogs favour. Swans did not get a free in the 2nd and 3 rd quarters. Half a game of footie and the Dogs did not infringe???????

Take 2 similar tackles, late on Jack early in the game , no 50m penalty, Swan player late on a dogs player later in the game , 50m given. Legs taken out, and no frees given to the Swans. All yr the leg slide has been a free kick.

Yes i am pissed off. 2 teams playing tough, but refs only seeing it one way.

Stats for the season, the finals and the GF all show the Dogs were on the good end of the whistle!!


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Anonymous
Last year
14:36 3 Oct 16

Reply #600362

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Thats what happens when you show more courage and are first at the footy.

The Swans had way too many passengers and if it wasn't for Josh Kennedy the scoreline would have favoured the Dogs even more.


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spot up
Last year
14:36 3 Oct 16

Reply #600363

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Honestly, watching it as a neutral I was surprised to hear the free kick count was so one sided. There's no rule that says it has to be even though.

The slide rule was an interesting one, the Hannebery one wasn't a clear cut free kick as most of the contact was on the knee or above, not below the knee. The rule is forceful contact below the knee, and it wasn't that. However, there was another one that was worse and I can't remember who it was, should have been paid though.

If there's a trend of one side getting more free kicks over the year it can be to do with how they play also, not just umpire bias.


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getreal
Last year
15:24 3 Oct 16

Reply #600368

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

362, sure the Swans had players who played poorly, but reverse the free kick count and the Swans would have won the game!!!!


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Anonymous
Last year
15:30 3 Oct 16

Reply #600370

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Why reverse the free kick count? Did the Swans deserve to have 20 paid to them but only give away 8? No.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:33 3 Oct 16

Reply #600371

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

^^^^
Exactly I was a neutral but after half time I got on the swans because they only looked at one side, which by the way IMO was the home side advantage.
The super bowl is played at neutral venue and they have so many video replays that very hard to get rorted.

Paperly was the one that got slid into from about 3 meters, swans had numbers going forward no wihistle Bulldogs score at other end, it was a crucial play.


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getreal
Last year
15:38 3 Oct 16

Reply #600372

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

370, did the dogs deserve a 20-8 free kick count? did they not infringe for half the game? We are not talking about who deserved to win, we are talking about an extremely lopsided free kick count in a hard game!


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Anonymous
Last year
15:50 3 Oct 16

Reply #600373

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

There were definitely a couple of free kicks that the Dogs were lucky to get, or get away with. That still doesn't mean that reversing the free kick count would prove anything.


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spot up
Last year
15:52 3 Oct 16

Reply #600374

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Was that just on the basis of the free kick count?


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spot up
Last year
15:53 3 Oct 16

Reply #600375

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Sorry my question was to 371...


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getreal
Last year
16:02 3 Oct 16

Reply #600376

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

373, the comment on reversing the free kick count and the Swans win the game was made to get people to actually think about the game without emotion. I do not think any person who watched the game would have thought it deserved such a one sided free kick count.

In all sports you want the teams , NOT the refs/umps deciding a winner. IF the count was the other way and the Swans had won, imagine the re action that would have followed. Everyone, umps included, have been caught up in the cinderella story. (it was a great story)


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Anonymous
Last year
16:06 3 Oct 16

Reply #600378

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

The Bulldogs played much better for four quarters. Buddy and Tippett did sweet f**k all. The umps did not have as much of an impact on the game as you are pretending they did.


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stat
Last year
20:04 5 Oct 16

Reply #600501

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

the +12 free kick differential in favour of the dogs is the largest differential in history in a grand final!!!


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Anonymous
Last year
10:47 6 Oct 16

Reply #600526

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

That makes their win all the sweeter!


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Anonymous
Last year
16:44 6 Oct 16

Reply #600594

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

After all of the fuss I thought I would take advantage of a couple of days off to watch the four Dogs games again as a group to examine the issue. Let me start by saying that I am (was?) a Fitzroy supporter that didn't switch to a new team so I don’t have a dog in the fight so to speak (pun intended). Post the demise of the Royboys I put my time and money into supporting community sport through coaching and umpiring/refereeing but still watch AFL and go to the odd game when a mate has a spare ticket. I do admit to being a bit caught up in the fairy tale and being a Vic was hoping for a Dog’s win, but mostly hoping for a good game and didn’t want to be switching off at quarter time like the previous two Swans games. Firstly, there is the inherent (but false) assumption for all similar ball sports that the simple count of adjudications of rule infringements should be even and that any discrepancy, certainly any significant one, is purely down to errors of officials (or even worse, their bias). I know I am stating the obvious but the vast majority of complaints come from losing supporters in such situations, basically THE only reason they lost was down to the officials and errors committed by their team or simple lack of ability take a back seat. If the penalty/free kick count is lopsided against the winning team you might get some comments in a close game about the officials "trying to stop us" but generally very little in the way of comments from the winning team about officials, maybe the odd specific decision.
I have watched the GF through carefully and whilst there were some clear errors against the Swans (and few debatable), there were instances of missed or incorrect free kicks that went against the Dogs, eg Buddy’s hands in the back prior to a mark. Is the suggestion there is a clear surplus in the error count by officials of 12 against the Swans? That if the lopsided count was “fixed”, the Swans would have definitely won? In ball sports such as AFL the result comes down to six key “S’s”. Individually you are looking at Skill, Speed, Strength and Stamina and then, most crucially in elite level competition, how these Sum together and that great intangible, Spirit. If one team has a decided advantage in one or several of these areas then they are actually more likely to come out on the “right” side of officiating for some fairly simple reasons. For AFL the key area for discussions on officiating is usually tackling and if you are a step slow you are likely to be sloppy in your tackling. The last quarter in the GF showed this when M. Boyd gave away a free kick for a high tackle because he lunged at the last second whereas Morris’s tackle on Buddy was perfect as he was right on Buddy’s tail and didn’t have to stretch to make the tackle. After watching those four games by the Dogs it is quite obvious they had an advantage in individual speed (across the board) over Eagles, Hawks and Swans and also Skill via the way they zip handballs around (also the Sum part of the equation as they seem to know where their teammates are without looking). Against GWS there was much less of an advantage in the footspeed (probably very little) but they still had the advantage with their ball movement. This speed advantage means you are more likely to get free kicks for incorrect tackling by the opposition or by your good tackling on opposition players as they think they have time to dispose but then get caught after having had time to dispose. They seemed to have an advantage in Stamina as they clearly ran over the top of GWS and Swans (put the cue in the rack against Hawks and to a lesser extent Eagles). Then there is the question of Spirit and I don’t think anyone could disagree the Dogs had the advantage in that department. Longmire was quite open in his post-match press conference about that and for me it was encapsulated in that last key play when Stringer went to ground with his opponent who subsequently lay there whilst Stringer bounced back up, received the hand ball and centred for Picken.
Spirit and Speed have a key part in the most contentious issue which I believe were the three below knee contact frees not paid to the Swans. Firstly, we have to remember why this law was brought in and how it is worded. The wording is forceful contact below the knee and it was aimed at those situations where a player is bending over to gain possession of a ground ball and the late arriving opponent slides in (lack of speed causing a desperate lunge) and makes forceful contact below the knee, raising the possibility of injury. In the case of McLean V Jack, McLean went to ground to gain possession but Jack was clearly the late arriving player which means a discussion about below knee V head high contact/kicking in danger and I think you have to go with first to the ball in that case, that is pretty much accepted in all team ball sports. In the Morris V Papley case you had both players running after the ball and one dived at it (Spirit) and knocked away the ball with the other falling over as a result of contact below the knee. I think the umpire believed it was not forceful (I know you could argue any contact that causes a player to fall over must be forceful) and it was probably a fifty-fifty call on who was first to the ball. Given that this was the third incident chronologically, you could make the old argument about players having to adjust to the way the game is being called on the day. Clearly one player was more determined than the other though as I know from personal experience having played goalkeeper a few times that you have got to be brave (or crazy) to go for a ball with your hands (and as a consequence put your head in danger as well) when the other player is likely to try kicking it. The third one is the most contentious of course as it did result in injury and a serious one at that. Watching the replay carefully (which an umpire does not get to do remember), the first contact is at or above the knee (by which time the injury I believe has already happened) but there is then clearly contact below the knee and Hannebery was there first so this is the one where the umpires have erred. Even if the first 90% of your tackle is legal and the last 10% isn’t, you have still transgressed. At real speed it is easy to see why an umpire missed it though and any calls of umpires “buying into” the fairy tale I think is akin to grassy knoll stuff.
In conclusion, after watching those 4 games as a group the Dogs clearly had an edge in a few of those areas and were the best team in the finals (insert argument here over bye and whether they go out first up without those recovered players) and deserved to win it. Making complaints based solely on summative stats like the total free kick count are really just sour grapes.


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Anonymous
Last year
16:57 6 Oct 16

Reply #600609

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

^^^ I support neither side but what a load of bollocks. :)


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Anonymous
Last year
13:24 8 Oct 16

Reply #601028

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

It wasn't about the free kicks but instead the VFLs archaic rule/agreement that the grand final must be in Melbourne. Last two flags won by Melbourne clubs which they probably wouldn't have won if the game had been played in Perth/Sydney respectively.


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Bear
Last year
14:55 8 Oct 16

Reply #601040

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread


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Bear
Last year
15:04 8 Oct 16

Reply #601042

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Try that again, shall we...

@Anon #594 you make some interesting points in a very long post, I think if Stevie 'J' plays for the Giants they win it in Melbourne against Sydney, so the Bulldogs are very much deserving winners no matter what.

You can only play who you have and who you are scheduled to play, you can only control those things you can control and you can rarely if ever control the officials.

@Anon #028 are you unaware that Melbourne is the sporting capital of the universe? I would be happy to allow the AFL grand final be played at any venue and in any location where a crowd of about 100,000 is guaranteed.

Do you have the same opinion about this year's NRL final, should they have played that at the Storm's home ground in front of 30,000? Seriously!!

And a comment on the AFL GF entertainment, WTF is it with paying over a $Million for acts like 'Sting' to come in and play three average tunes then fly out immediately?

Surely the AFL can use this kind of coin more wisely, crazy stuff that makes us look pretty stupid IMHO...


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Anonymous
Last year
15:11 8 Oct 16

Reply #601044

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

I'm aware of Melbourne's status as a big sports city. I'm even more aware that home advantage makes a big difference in the results of games. Everyone knows this.


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Bear
Last year
15:15 8 Oct 16

Reply #601047

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Then you understand that the Bulldogs home ground is Etihad Stadium and the Cats played the Hawks away from home in their first final and even the Cats v Swans was a neutral game and..... Oh god, I'm over it!


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Anonymous
Last year
17:11 8 Oct 16

Reply #601064

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Mate, there's more to home advantage than which stadium it is. Travel, fan support, familiarity/comfort come into play. being at home instead of travelling helps with preparation too.


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Anonymous
Last year
06:33 10 Oct 16

Reply #601353

re: Off-topic: The 2016 AFL Grand Final Thread

Winners are grinners, go puppies!


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