Apparently got a kid from another club, "ahem", and didn't register him properly so the 12 games he played in were considered forfeits.
Really feel sorry for those kids, because of ineptitude of Norwood these kids are now bottom instead of playing for finals. Whoever stuffed it up should be sacked and kids ask for their fees and game payments back.
Might have a lot of kids and I know div one isn't everything, but apart from these poor 12s and their 14s, they're terrible, finishing bottom in 18s, 23s and reserves.
And funny that a coach posted how proud that his kids were loyal when he approached his previous club a month ago asking to go back.
norwood should have done some due diligence on the people they employed as coaching directors.
parents need to be aware of the dream sellers, just because people have come from a high level playing background, or from america, doesn't mean they are experts and can deliver what they are promising
I really feel sorry for the kids. Really poor work from the CD / coach - there is no way he couldn't have known. Every kid in that team was let down. The parents should be filthy with what has happened and yes, should be asking for their money back. They should also apologise to the rest of the competition - yes those that were playing by the the rules and obviously with higher moral standards.
I don't know that CD/coach knew that the kid wasn't cleared or registered or whatever. The issue is that they've had no one running admin for months and months. Just an assumption that things were done.
Loyalty at norwood ha ha ha ha ha nope.
PL players are loyal to the club I've noticed. Although breed no culture of loyalty with juniors, they do not watch juniors play, do not show their faces at games or tournaments just sprout their own agenda and expect juniors to come watch them play.
Anyway, it's sad. I'm sorry for these kids... it's a hard thing to explain. Money back, doubt it. They still played and that costs... they won't medal, which sucks - do they lose their state champ title? Didn't the 12 boys win that
What happens when so many kids get poached from other clubs, lose track of them. Ridiculous the audacity how it takes place, don't even try and hide it, if course it's not just Norwood, another club needs to fill a hole and goes out and recruits.
And premier men show up to tournament, don't watch games, rostered there to sell merchandise to pay for seniors then go.
That's what made Dee Oldham so great, not just on the court. Would show up Friday nights, talk to the kids and help them out. Worth weight in gold, true professional and every club would be lucky to have him. Starling, Ti'onna (sorry for spelling) goes to juniors as well I believe, can't say I see many others there. And clubs wonder about lack of interest, need to get these senior players out to create interest, like the boom days in the 90s.
It's real disappointing to see all the keyboard warriors out there not willing to name their opinion but think people in basketball admin are just there to critic. How many of you know the full story? The background of the issue? The fact that a coaching director doesn't handle registration or the fact that it took BSA twelve weeks to inform the club of an issue?
I would be more worried that other clubs might now be entering into finals with unregistered, uncleared players and BSA may not even know.
After being at other clubs during tough times, then seeing the professionalism in Melbourne, to now with Norwood, I have always experienced their professionalism and support. As a coach high expectations are expected and development opportunities are there for anyone who is willing to take them.
Sure you can find faults but let's be honest there are flaws in every club but it's the people willing to come in every day or night with a helpful positive attitude to be a solution that makes a club a special place. Anyone with this attitude will find Norwood a great home.
As to #emptypromises ... nothing is signed sealed and delivered in sports until the board signs it. A coaching Director promises the opportunity but past results, personality, attitude and the board of directors also play a part. That's club politics 101. You want to get to a better Div as a coach or player, what you did yesterday is erelevant because in bball past performance is no indicator of future success. What you say you'll do tomorrow doesn't make a difference because you never know what tomorrow brings the only thing that matters is how valuable you make yourself today and how much you actually care about the club and people in it.
Yes I am sorry the under twelves lost their points, it sucks bad. But basketball is a business the coaching director has directed his coaches and overall teams are performing well and are well coached. My question becomes why did it take BSA twelve weeks to cumunicate that the paper work was wrong or hadn't arrived. Since it's a business it's their failure to communicate as much as anyone's.
There will always be blame to put. But if you understand the politics then you understand that it's never 1 person or club to blame.
Wouldnt mind questioning something said above by Carlos as far as the process works.
"why did it take BSA twelve weeks to cumunicate that the paper work was wrong or hadn't arrived"
Firstly - I'm not sure how BSA can communicate regarding paperwork if its doesn't arrive/isn't submitted?
Secondly - My understanding is that a club can't suit a player from another club until they have confirmed approval from BSA (presumably in writing) that a transfer has been approved. The reasons for hold-ups would presumably be financial ones on behalf of club fees being outstanding, etc.
So either I've got the process wrong and Norwood has somehow been screwed, or Norwood simply decided to suit up a player before getting the approved clearance due to what could be a number of reasons?
It's not exactly uncommon for players to be held out of games due to lack of clearance.
BSA would just about weekly send an email out to clubs with players who played but were not yet registered. Most clubs would have 1-2 and quickly fix up the oversight that week. Norwood would consistently have 10+ and take weeks to resolve. I suspect this is one of those and when Norwood finally got around to registering BSA were able to conclude the player had in fact played at another club without being cleared.
Norwood needs an internal review into the ethics around their recruitment of juniors from other clubs. Club coaches approaching parents of talented kids at rival clubs isn't ever acceptable imo.
People at other clubs know for a fact that it's going on and they know which coaches are doing it. It's why there's no sympathy with the club over this points deduction, even if there is a lot of sympathy for the poor kids involved.
It's not just happening in the U12 program either. There has been lots of movement across all age groups. No wonder they couldn't keep up with the admin!
If all clubs acted like Norwood has over the past 12 months, then kids basketball in SA would be ruined. It would be like the Wild West, with clubs offering inducements and exaggerated promises to gullible parents. Isn't loyalty and perseverance a quality we want to teach our young basketballers?
Sorry Carlos, at every other club, the coaching director and coaches are all over whether a player is eligible to play or not. Pretty much the first question asked. And BSA are very good with the clearance process. So here we have the CD and the coach as one in the same. So maybe a bit of self serving that backfired. I suggest your club is out of control, and the only ones suffering are the kids. Might be why the girls program is going out the door - literally.
It's a shame. We need ten strong well managed junior clubs. The last thing we want is crap like this. The kids and their paying parents deserve way more than this.
You would hardly put Norwood at the top of the player poaching list . Sturt have been front runners in that for years . Lets just accept the fact that juniors change clubs for better opportunities and stop the bullshit talk of inducements at a junior level . If people want to go to norwood just get over it .
The reason Norwood juniors keep getting mentioned on hoops is because in the last 12 months there's been a mass exodus of good coaches, good admin people but the propaganda machine is wheeling and kids are joining for the stadium and promises that the norwood league is somehow a district style comp. I hear families say "oh my son joined norwood" thinking that they'd made a team yet only playing league vs 4 other teams of confused kids and parent. Cha Ching, take money, promise kids stuff you won't deliver.
Chew through coaches, chase medals in 2 age groups and boys of course not girls, give the 2nd tier coaches to the girls.... poach kids with promises and chew up and spit out kids who bust their loyal asses for the club.
Carlos: the process for achieving a clearance is simple and black and white. Child moving applies with their club as long as fees are paid this is simple as long as not mid season. Email goes out to their admin people and bsa - this is then approved or not. Child can not play until this is approved and have this in writing.
Norwood do this all the time so saying that the club is professional is cause for a lot of eye roll.
Sorry Brian, but to equate this to the normal flow of players to the top clubs is to miss the point.
For years kids and their ambitious parents have moved to the top clubs for a number of reasons, from playing under a State coach to training alongside better players or even just to win a few medals. While I don't like it, it happens all the time.
What I find unacceptable is that some of these Norwood coaches have been caught making the initial contact with parents and kids to suggest a move. This can't be right. It's an ethical question for me. If I was running Norwood basketball club, I'd be instigating a code of conduct when it comes to junior recruitment and I would be having frank conversations with a few specific coaches about the situation over the past 18 months.
You know full well this happens at other district clubs and yes coaches often approach players from other clubs to single norwood out in this is ridiculous- not saying I think it's right either but it's common place . There is always some sort of contact point through school or other social team that initiates change. And anon do you think coaches have not be poached away from norwood with the promise of getting a state gig - check your facts ! And labelling the girls coaches as 2nd rate is pathetic. It sounds to me like norwood is perhaps out growing its numbers and doesn't necassirly have the management to deal with out but plenty of these comments are just hate and envy.
Nearly all clubs poach, that's fact, whether it's kids telling their mates, or nitp coaches telling them to come to their club to get more opportunities.
What other clubs don't do generally is walk up to a kid and parents directly after game and say come over, I guarantee you div one. Even kids that are lower grades are told come over and you'll play ones and then get stuck in even worse grade than when they started.
Bsa really need to step in and sanction certain people, everyone knows who they are.
And shut up Carlos, you just want the notoriety but have no clue.
If the coach was a volunteer they probably would not be asked back to coach.
The coach was the JD so you would think this would affect his employment!!!!!
It may be the biggest club but that does not make it the best by any means.
It needs new leadership. I have seen good teams lose games by being to arrogant and norwood need to pull it head out of its arse stop trying to be the biggest and start showing loyalty to its junior players and only then maybe it could be a great club
Very frustrating club at the moment.
I would like to see at the very least an apology on the club website by the JD
The u12's div 1 presentation will be interesting
I'm not surprised one bit, and also have been caught out playing unregistered players during season in other grades too, and they just get a slap on the wrist! I believe they have players unqualified playing finals too. They just don't seem to care about the rules. BSA should start coming down even harder on clubs that just completely ignore the rules. Increase the fines dramatically or not allow them to field a team in their top division the following season. If clubs are continually breaking the very clear rules maybe BSA need to come down harder.
Haha it would seem nothing is sacred at Norwood after they paid a scout to attempt to film their first opponent at 14s next month in Rockingham from WA. Are there just no morals in that club at all? After the scout was told he couldn't videotape, he was seen feverishly taking hand written notes for most of the game. Not sure of the attempted outcome though, as it's definitely given the WA boys so ammunition and motivation now for their first up game in Dandenong.
" they paid a scout to attempt to film their first opponent at 14s next month in Rockingham from WA "
Not certain what this anon is saying here, That would actually seem to be a good thing IMHO I went to just about 80% every U14 championship for close on 15 years, the strong clubs ( usually vic ) were ALWAYS present scouting the other interstate clubs during the week, and by the end of the 15 years most of the stronger & better organized clubs were video taping as well. To in 2017 to be arranging to game tape of your apposed prior to their first game at the tournament would just be good sense to me.
the only teams that never scouted were the ACT and NT Girls.
Always remember Sturt getting jumped by the ACT in both of their first pool games and going down to the ACT. They then met the ACT for the 3/4 playoff (?) and slaughtered them by 70 points, but should have made the 1v2 , and would have if they had remained undefeated in their pool
Anonymous-every single under 14 National competition I've attend each club has done a fair amount of homework on their up and coming opponents and how each player plays! This is nothing new, it's been going on for years.NSW, Victoria also do it. It's seems for what ever reason your very bitter towards Norwood.
I would without question be going after BSA on this one . How does a peak body allow a club play an unregistered player for 12 weeks !! That is an absolute disgrace , we missed finals after playing norwood 2x and removing them didn't help. Surely BSA should 'Ve picked this up earlier. Obviously norwood are at fault and should be penalised but really where is BSA's responsibility in all this.
Barry nails it again.
Norwood unsuccessfully appealed because they HAD registered the player. The team played in State Champs and the VJBL Classics, and every player was registered by Norwood with BSA, INCLUDING the one allegedly "not cleared".
In the past, BSA would advise clubs of players unregistered, or players duplicate registered (not cleared) so that the club admin could fix. Neither occurred with this player - he WAS registered with BSA by Norwood, BEFORE State Champs, without ANY indication of an issue, until the team was rubbed out 4 months later.
He was registered and on the State Champs and Classics Norwood team lists, and as proof his stats are still listed on the VJBL Classics site today - September 11th - (until BSA read this anyway...)
BSA have failed to follow-up and process the clearance for this player. On appeal, they gave themselves a clean bill of health, refused to accept any responsibility, and have left Norwood, and these kids, to swing for the whole lot.
Phase V - The process to clear a player is not difficult.
If BSA did not send a confirmation that this child is cleared from their old club to play for Norwood, they can NOT play, even if Norwood "THINKS" they registered them.
this clearly didnt come through and how would Norwood know anyways, no one is in the office to see anything that comes through or doesnt come through.
i know of 3 kids who were told just the past few weeks they were not cleared to play for Norwood (in lower grades) This is a CLUB PROBLEM not a BSA problem.
god, the more i read your post Phase V the more annoyed i get "BSA failed to follow up" lol, are you serious?
If Norwood operated professionally they'd know the clearance hadn't arrived and they would in turn make a call and send an email to query the status of the clearance.
Also: registering a player for tournaments has zero to do with clearances to play for a new club.
2 x Anon:
Say what you like, but nothing changes these facts:
1. The player was registered by Norwood. The team was rubbed out for failure to register the player.
2. Registration for Classics and State Champs and District basketball is all the same database.
3. The clearance process is done by BSA, NOT the club, its not a simple process, and there are no longer any safeguards if it is not done.
All have neglected in some way to follow process. Parents may not be aware that clearances are needed if this is their first child and first experience at compettive sport.We didn't need clearances when I was a kid so I didn't know when we mived our kids. I asked questions, read the sites and that was the only way I found out So they may have an excuse if no one told them or asked for a clearance, but they are the ones who needed to send the email requesting the clearance as per process below, not the club. The clubs and bsa receive this then should process and inform all of successful or unsuccessful clearance. One issue can be if coaches who do not understand the process communicate with parents giving the wrong information bypassing the admin. However there should be checks and balances in the clubs and bsa behalf... it really is simple and about people asking questions and most of all Clubs and BSA need to have key information like clearance requirements as part of the registerion process for players and trial information.... Parents should have to site and tick and agreement with an automated process flagging those that don't provide a clearance letter/email.. unfortunate for the kids.
CLEARANCE PROCESS AS PER BSA WEB.
A player who wishes to transfer to or from a club in the Basketball SA District (Junior, Youth League, Senior or Central ABL) Competition must receive a clearance before doing so. The clearance process differs depending on whether the clearance is:
local (ie between two clubs in the Basketball SA district competition)
intrastate (ie one of the clubs is in the Basketbal SA district competition and the other is elsewhere in SA)
interstate/NBL/WNBL (ie one of the two clubs is in another state or is an NBL/WNBL team)
international (ie one of the two clubs is in another country)
For transfers between clubs within the Basketball SA district competitions, a clearance must be applied for via an email or letter to the club secretary of the current club. This email must mention the player's name and the club to which the player is applying to be cleared. If the application is via email, the Basketball SA Competitions Manager ([email protected]) should be copied on the email.
The club must respond within 14 days, either granting the clearance, or providing a reason why the clearance cannot be granted. The only legitimate reason for not granting a clearance is if the player is not financial with the Club or holding club equipment.
I believe Norwood div 1 boys in 12's may have finished 1st at state champs.. interesting.
Phase V - the player was rubbed out due to failing to register the player CORRECTLY which includes a clearance from the club he was already registered at, get it?
it is in no way BSA's fault, sorry.
BSA have a simple way of dealing with this.
They have been able to roll out the use of Stadium scoring at each venue and then at each game players can only play if registered with the club. Otherwise they would be notified and the issue would be quickly fixed. This has not occurred and BSA now don't even bother checking registrations.
In previous years a majority of clubs would have multiple player eligibility questions over the first few rounds of summer and winter after viewing score sheets. This would give clubs the ability to respond with name changes and/or correct registrations.
Expecting anyone in a club to manage 50+ teams, in some cases, is unrealistic without BSA working with the clubs to manage this process. This does not mean Norwood should not be held accountable, but I'm sure they aren't the only club in this situation over the past few years. Previously BSA would have notified them and the other clubs.
How an unregistered player slipped by BSA for State Champs is very concerning as the peak body should be responsible for making sure all players are eligible and have a process in place for this to happen.
These are good points Forgotton, however i simply don't agree that many clubs are in this position. Clubs like Sturt and Forestville
When a new player joins a club there is a process within the club which identifies them as new - registering with the club internally, ordering uniforms, being assigned a players number all of these things are indicators the child is new. The problem with Norwood is they became too big too quick and two admin people left due to internal CRAP and owed money - so with no admin. No admin means no one is across a player transfer properly and isn't there to ensure the transfer has been completed by the rules.
It is nice that BSA used to look through score sheets and notify teams however it is up to the organisation AND the parent to complete the transfer properly and ensure that email/letter has arrived before putting that child on the court.
Maybe someone should steer the competitions manager to the players lists at that particular club so they can unearth the other dozen players who played uncleared in 2016/2017.
Again, quoting Barry from last week- so much "hate and envy". So many hidden agendas...
Anon #540 – You are clearly from BSA, given you are quoting from their correspondence to the club. Try reading the Bylaws - players are either registered, or not registered. No mention of “proper”. This one was registered.
Grapevine # 554 – the team should NOT have been allowed to play the player at State Champs, that's the whole point. Norwood are not claiming to be perfect, but the point is that there are backups in place to help prevent this.
Players are registered in the SportsTG system. BSA have had a long-standing process where if a player is duplicate registered (i.e. registered at two clubs = uncleared), BSA are notified of the duplicate via a report from the SportsTG system, and they then get the clubs to chase the clearance, which BSA then processes. This has always been the backup in the past. This player would have shown as a duplicate to BSA, at the latest when registered for (that is BEFORE) State Champs, and in the past it would have been sorted out then – prior to State Champs.
Cat #569 – a quick perusal of your Hoops history shows you have been posting negative stuff since the dawn of the internet, much of it anti-Norwood – have you considered putting your own hand up for politics? You could start the Do-nothing Anonymous Troll party.
Anon #597 – There are plenty of hard-working, capable team-oriented admin people at Norwood. Based on your comments (which are, to quote you, complete “CRAP”) I am guessing that if Norwood ever has a “Best Export” award, you would win it hands-down.
Any club can find themselves in this kind of situation unintentionally.
Not all new players know that they need a clearance and don't necessarily mention that they have played district basketball previously. How can a club know if they aren't told by the new member or BSA?
For some they have played multiple years previously and are completely unaware that there is in fact a clearance process.
It is also possible that player name spelling can be different due to some kids using their preferred or nickname when young, or input errors with information online or by clubs.
Unless BSA can take the lead and meet their responsibilities there will consistently be these kind of issue from multiple clubs.
If BSA have not been doing updates and checks on a regular basis, there is a great possibility that a number of clubs are playing ineligible players for any number of reasons.
Phase V thanks for the history lesson.
I certainly can't ever remember an 'anti-Norwood' post
Although your ridiculous registration costs for Easter Carnival could be a great starting point.
I really don't care if it's Sturt , Tigers , West or Woodville. Just do your due diligence on player transfers and don't squeal on here when the governing body catches your hand in the cookie jar!
I'm off to troll elsewhere, you're an easy mark.
Working for BSA? hahahahhahaha. Ok Phase V. ok. My opinion backs up BSA's findings so i must work for them? err no, i am just logical.
Norwood does NOT have many good nor skilled people in admin, in fact for 6 long months they had NO ONE and if there was someone actually holding that title they don't know how to answer a phone or respond to emails.
Forgotten, your points are pretty valid but i do not agree it is up to BSA to check on clubs or scoresheets.
Cat - keep up the great work mate. It cant be easy posting 100+ times on here whilst wearing a cape and all that other superhero gear
Anon - So you have no clue or care about how the By-laws work, and everyone at Norwood avoids you like the plague. If you are not from BSA, you should be...
I have no clue how the by laws work!? seriously! what is actually wrong with you? Norwood avoids ME like the plague? why on earth would i contact Norwood?
Phase V are you 15?
Truth is: Unfortunately for your club, s&^t has hit the fan and you can't hide 100 problems at a time with excuses. Families are about to leave in droves. Learn from it and fix it for the kids that stay.
Anon #734. Googled "Car + Phase V" and the answer is a 1951 Hillman Minx. You are showing your age...
Anon #737. So you have never contacted Norwood, but you know for a fact that they don't answer the phone or respond to emails. Did you learn that at a séance? BTW, I am not 15, I am 14, but big for my age.
Anon #751. You are on here anonymously trolling a club and its people, and its all based on hearsay. The only "ugly truth" is the reflection from your screen as you are typing. That's a troll staring back at you. Run along and find something productive to do.
BSA can't keep an eye on every players registration as they are busy. Busy trolling anyone on hoops who are negative towards BSA. Busy trolling those clubs who have been keeping the [email protected]&ds honest. Busy bashing anyone from Basketball Adelaide who keep them accountable. Suddenly at the end of the minor round BSA check their registrations? June would never let this drag on for so many months. BSA should take a good look at their own leadership, oh, wait, too soon.
Karma, arrogance by Norwood has long been a staple, whenever another kid has asked for a clearance from another club they normally get it within a few days, Norwood wait the full 14 days to teach the kid for leaving, have been in the office when that has been mentioned before. Think they are above law so bsa have thrown the book. At recent president /coaches meeting they were only ones not to send representative.
Biggest club and highest fees but kids in lower grades are forced to have parents coach and last seasons results in div one were very lacklustre, going backward with Norwood!
Trolling a club? i have plenty of positive things to say about junior basketball in SA and almost every other junior club. Norwood is a horrendously operated club -
FACT. Norwood does what Norwood wants. Kids playing for that club are at a disadvantage and usually don't realise unless they are lucky enough to reach NITP etc and learn through mixing with other kids at other clubs and meet the coaches, Norwood refuses to teach juniors to play the nationally recommended way or listen to any feedback given by someone like David Ingham who sees potential and recommends how it can be developed for the child's future.
The arrogance of so many of the influential people is alarming which was shown nicely by the lack of representation at the last president/coaches meeting. The arrogance is directly affecting the kids and the men sitting atop the tower give zero sh*&s.
Ask the president to name some kids outside of 14 boys. Ask him how many junior games he has gone and seen this season. Ask the VP, heck ask the JDO he wont know either.
Anon #792. True, the 1951 Hillman Minx Phase V is a smooth unit. To be fair though, Norwood is still running, and has been since 1946, despite the concerted efforts of many.
Anon #798 and Anon #815 - Apologies, but I am having trouble keeping track of which troll is which. But trolls you is ...
From your identical comments about a non-existent "president/coaches meeting", I presume you two have adjoining cubicles at the turd-polishing factory. I am guessing one of you does the glue, and the other one does the glitter.
Anyway, you forgot to mention that Norwood's uniforms are made from the fur of endangered animals, but otherwise great work.
Phase V, just goes to show you're ignorance about non existent meeting, happened on Tuesday night a few weeks back. Gotta give you props for backing up your club but find out facts. Excuse for missing registration was moving to ARC. As of a few years ago the coaching director had been to zero trainings apart from his own and pocketed the cash then had a dummy spit when div two coach was named that he didn't like so stopped coaching.
Div three and under were told that the club were not supplying coaches and parents had to do it, ridiculous. Of course it happens at most clubs but for it to be a policy just shows arrogance. Div ones are a mess, desperately trying to poach kids for older age groups as they haven't developed their own, one div one coach tried to return to old club saying he thought it would be different at Norwood then posted that he was proud of players loyalty at staying, despite being rejected by old club. And coaches that were recruited are rejects from other clubs, most of better coaches left just due to terrible politics there.
Arc has been complete debacle, supposedly top stadium in state but three of five courts totally undersized.
Kevin Brooks leaving after one year with frustration at how amateur the club is run is an indictment of where club is, apparently no interest from any new clubs with seniors run by couple of old guys and nothing much behind them.
Keep saying your the biggest club in state, doesn't mean you're the best by a long long way.
Most of what you posted above is pure fiction.
On forums such as this healthy debate is fine, but the problem with making stuff up is that those with no knowledge of the situation may choose to believe it.
It's not hard to work out who you are based on some of the lies you told in that post and some of your others above.
All I will say is that someone like you should know better. Be very careful making statements that are easily proven to be false, but of course someone like you should know that.
People have seemed to get off tack here.
To expect that all people will like/agree with how any club is run is just not realistic.
The issue is that a player was unregistered for a majority of the season and in all likely hood isn't the only player in the competition in this situation. In previous years, all clubs have had this happen and BSA has been proactive in helping clubs and the competition be seen as compliant.
Anon, if the referee of the competition isn't going to make sure all players and all clubs are compliant, by putting into place a system to maintains accountability. Then how can we expect clubs to do the same?
Attitude reflects leadership, and if BSA isn't leading in this area. Clubs, who are seriously more under resourced and generally run by volunteers, wont be able to maintain their adherence through ignorance.
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