Udog
Two weeks ago

#42680

NBL 40th Anniversary team

Bradtke, Gaze, Loggins, Crawford, Grace

Darryl McDonald and Mark Davis miss out on the 5 again. I Haven't seen better players in their prime in their respective positions. Older fans would need to vote for Davis I guess but hard to believe McDonald missed out again.

(Mod: Added team in bold.)

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Udog
Two weeks ago
22:11 8 Feb 18

Reply #671552

re: 40th Anniversary team

Do they ever do some kind of peer vote?


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
22:18 8 Feb 18

Reply #671555

re: 40th Anniversary team

Who made the team?


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Udog
Two weeks ago
22:18 8 Feb 18

Reply #671556

re: 40th Anniversary team

Fan vote.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
22:29 8 Feb 18

Reply #671561

re: 40th Anniversary team

Seeing some of the knowledge posted on here I'm not surprised.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
22:34 8 Feb 18

Reply #671564

re: 40th Anniversary team

Fan voting systems will always screw it up.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
22:36 8 Feb 18

Reply #671565

re: 40th Anniversary team

Sorry udog I meant which players made the team?


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Udog
Two weeks ago
22:40 8 Feb 18

Reply #671567

re: 40th Anniversary team

www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/andrew-gaze-mark-bradtke-head-nbl-40th-anniversary-team-20180208-p4yzqg

Bradtke, Gaze, Loggins, Crawford, Grace


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
22:43 8 Feb 18

Reply #671568

re: 40th Anniversary team

Bradtke :s


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
22:48 8 Feb 18

Reply #671570

re: 40th Anniversary team

PG Grace
SG Gaze
SF Loggins
PF Davis
C Crawford


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Yinka Dare
Two weeks ago
23:01 8 Feb 18

Reply #671571

re: 40th Anniversary team

If you saw McDonald play then surely you also saw grace play? I'd take grace


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Udog
Two weeks ago
23:06 8 Feb 18

Reply #671573

re: 40th Anniversary team

Yep. Saw them both. McDonald for me.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
23:06 8 Feb 18

Reply #671574

re: 40th Anniversary team

Yeah it's a bit baffling that comment... actually not really since UDog is trolling the Wildcats again. So transparent!


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Luuuc
Two weeks ago
23:32 8 Feb 18

Reply #671576

re: 40th Anniversary team

Team looks spot-on to me.
I went with Rose over Loggins when I did my 5, but I figured Leroy would likely be the more popular pick due to his longevity in the league.
Davis & D-Mac were great players, but Grace & JC just that little bit greater.

2nd five were
Daryl McDonald
Shane Heal
Rob Rose
Mark Davis
Chris Anstey


Nailed it, IMO.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
23:38 8 Feb 18

Reply #671577

re: 40th Anniversary team

If I was trolling I'd pick an Adelaide player over Grace instead of McDonald who I thought was the best point guard I've seen.


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Cats 4 life
Two weeks ago
00:38 9 Feb 18

Reply #671581

re: 40th Anniversary team

^^^ Unfortunately you can't put brains in statues ^^^


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Bol
Two weeks ago
00:51 9 Feb 18

Reply #671583

re: 40th Anniversary team

Personally i would have Davis ahead of Bradtke too. But its impossible to leave the other four out


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Udog
Two weeks ago
07:31 9 Feb 18

Reply #671597

re: 40th Anniversary team

Davis was averaging 25-28 points and 14-17 rebounds a season over his first 8 years in the league and wasn't just considered the best power forward but was always close to league MVP consideration with Loggins most years. He did win a league and grand final MVP also.

His shoulder dislocation in the 94 finals series where the 36ers knocked off the Tigers with Dave Simmons, Lanard Copeland, Gaze and Bradtke led to a significant change in his dominance after that and probably cost him another title to add to his other three.

Before his injury he was the best rebounder the league had seen and was one of the toughest, strongest defenders, often giving away height to bigger players.

How can you say Crawford was better Luuuc? He was never considered an MVP candidate.

Shouldn't Crawford be considered a center anyway?


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Dome Rat
Two weeks ago
07:42 9 Feb 18

Reply #671600

re: 40th Anniversary team

Davis averaged 25 rebounds a game in a final series one year

JC was good but no Mark Davis


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Udog
Two weeks ago
07:45 9 Feb 18

Reply #671601

re: 40th Anniversary team

Also, I did consider Crawford and Grace to be excellent players. All I'm saying is I'd be looking at Crawford in the center position instead of power forward. I also liked McDonalds size, passing and defence over Grace. I'm definitely not knocking either of them.


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Jack Toft
Two weeks ago
09:19 9 Feb 18

Reply #671611

re: 40th Anniversary team

Interesting team.

Gaze is basically a lock in and I think you would be hard pressed to find someone of sound mind who would say that was a bad choice.

I would love to see the actual votes per player and I would love to see each team nominate their own 40th Anniversary team.


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Isaac
Two weeks ago
09:38 9 Feb 18

Reply #671616

re: 40th Anniversary team

My votes were Gaze, Loggins, Bradtke, Davis, Maher. Davis-Crawford was a toss-up, but Udog has some good arguments for Davis in that. Maher was a home-town pick - realistically there are 5-10 really good options in the top bracket of guards including DMac, Grace, Rucker, Heal, Maher, Mee, Smyth, Bruton, Bruton Jr - and I figured DMac or Grace would be the favoured options.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
09:56 9 Feb 18

Reply #671621

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

The point guard and center positions would be the hardest to decide I'd say. Gaze, Loggins and Davis would be locks for me.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
09:58 9 Feb 18

Reply #671622

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Its tough to split JC/Davis, and Grace/D-Mac. I don't see how you can be aghast that two of them missed out.

D-Mac was probably a better player, but Grace had a solid 15 year career.

JC is third, third and second in all-time points, rebounds and blocks (the scoring and blocks both significantly higher than Davis) and the votes he received for the 25th anniversary team almost doubled what Davis received. No reason why Davis should suddenly be considered better.

Same with Grace over D-Mac for the 25th Anniversary team. That wasn't done by fan vote - that was done by a committee of past players and coaches etc.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
10:21 9 Feb 18

Reply #671626

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Read my previous post about Davis for why he is so unfortunate to not be named in the PF position. The anniversary teams are voted by fans. Not experts. So they are up for debate obviously.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
10:27 9 Feb 18

Reply #671629

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

25th Anniversary Team Selection Committee Members: Bob Elphinston (chairman), Barry Barnes, David Claxton, Gary Fox, John Gardiner, Peter Harcourt, Bret Harris, Ron Harvey, Betty Hassen, Stephen Howell, Adrian Hurley, Andrew Johnstone, Phil Lynch, Lorraine Landon, John Maddock, Ken Madsen, Robyn Maher, Jan Morris, Boti Nagy, Bill Palmer, Barry Richardson, John Scott, Mal Speed, Dean Templeton, John Davidson, Perry Crosswhite, Tim Morrissey, Peter Kogoy, Peter Walsh, Phil Brown, Marty Clarke, Mike Wrublewski, Grantley Bernard, Dave Hughes.

I don't know who all of them are but that is not a list of fans. The fact the committee landed on this for the 25th team, then the fans got much the same for the 40th, means that fans and experts are pretty much aligned.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
10:29 9 Feb 18

Reply #671630

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

"Shouldn't Crawford be considered a center anyway?"

- someone who obviously never even saw him play


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Udog
Two weeks ago
10:36 9 Feb 18

Reply #671633

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

I voted for Crawford at center. Davis just too good not to get in at PF.

I watched Crawford play. Even before he was at Perth.

Davis was always an MVP candidate each year but suffered a horrible injury in his 8th season which led yo his drop off statistically. He won League MVP and grandfinal MVP in seperate years, Crawford was never an MVP choice but was very good.

My mistake on the 25th anniversary team being a fan vote. I stand by my choice though because Davis was the best I've seen.


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Seb
Two weeks ago
10:48 9 Feb 18

Reply #671637

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

SHANE HEALS Write up: absolute JOKE!!!
Its like they couldnt think of anything so they said...ummm he made heaps of three's!
Mahers Write up would take a dump on HEals!!!


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Luke
Two weeks ago
10:54 9 Feb 18

Reply #671639

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

How is Heals 12 3's in a game an accomplishment when a simple google search will show Ian Davies scored 13 in '85?


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Udog
Two weeks ago
11:03 9 Feb 18

Reply #671643

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Good point. Being brash and loud and being a coach/ in the media means he's been more visible in the public eye I guess?


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
11:20 9 Feb 18

Reply #671645

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Mark Davis made the All Star 5 one time more than JC did so yes clearly Davis was 'always an MVP candidate each year' and Crawford never was. No one is denying Davis was an awesome player Udog. Apart from Gaze this was never going to be an easy call.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
11:29 9 Feb 18

Reply #671646

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

To the point above asking if we watched him yes JC played C for Cats despite being naturally a PF so Davis at PF and JC at C for me.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
11:44 9 Feb 18

Reply #671654

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

yeah and Kuiper, Pinder, Hansen, Allen, etc were shooting guards


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
11:45 9 Feb 18

Reply #671656

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

But after that for the majority of the 90s it was Fisher-Vlahov-JC at 3-5.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
11:48 9 Feb 18

Reply #671658

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

sorry to break it to you but JC is not in the all time 5 on the strength of what he did in 1997


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Dome Rat
Two weeks ago
11:53 9 Feb 18

Reply #671660

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

The Heal stat is that he hit 12 3's in two different games. No one else has done that.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
11:54 9 Feb 18

Reply #671661

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Why is Heal being mentioned in this thread? LOL


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Dome Rat
Two weeks ago
12:05 9 Feb 18

Reply #671664

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Some JC V MD stats to further the chat

Davis 481 games over 17 seasons JC 504 games 19 seasons

Highest stats

3PM MD 5 JC 1
DReb MD 23 JC 18
OReb MD 20 JC 12
TReb MD 29 JC 22
Assists MD 9 JC 8
Steals MD 5 JC 7
Blocks MD 5 JC 8
Points MD 46 JC 57

Double Double MD 256 JC 227

Seasons of more than 20ppg MD 10 JC 11

Seasons of more than 10Rbg MD 11 JC 10


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
12:08 9 Feb 18

Reply #671665

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

57 points. end of debate.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
12:16 9 Feb 18

Reply #671669

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Your basing your choice in one game then.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
12:17 9 Feb 18

Reply #671670

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

That logic makes Al Green a lock.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
12:17 9 Feb 18

Reply #671671

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

The game high comparisons between the two adds nothing to the debate.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
12:19 9 Feb 18

Reply #671672

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

agreed. of all the ways to compare stats that is about the least meaningful.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
12:19 9 Feb 18

Reply #671673

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

I agree but it's interesting to have a look at


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
12:20 9 Feb 18

Reply #671674

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

57!


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Udog
Two weeks ago
12:30 9 Feb 18

Reply #671675

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Yes 57. In one game out of his 500+.


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Hogwash
Two weeks ago
12:33 9 Feb 18

Reply #671676

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

57. So what .
Didn't Heal once score 60+


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Dome Rat
Two weeks ago
12:40 9 Feb 18

Reply #671678

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

If the stats don't matter then remember Davis pulled those numbers playing alongside Pearce, McKay, Bradtke,Maher and Green being Boomers and HOF

Crawford had Vlahov, Grace and who else?


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
12:43 9 Feb 18

Reply #671679

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

"Crawford had Vlahov, Grace and who else?"

You're kidding, right?


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Udog
Two weeks ago
12:53 9 Feb 18

Reply #671680

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

All NBL Team 1987

#PlayerTeam
PG Steve Carfino Hobart Devils
SG Andrew Gaze Melbourne Tigers
SF Leroy Loggins Brisbane Bullets
PF Mark Davis Adelaide 36ers
C James Crawford Perth Wildcats

I don't see why people are upset that I have Davis at PF and Crawford at C.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
12:56 9 Feb 18

Reply #671681

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

"I don't see why people are upset that I have Davis at PF and Crawford at C."

Because you keep on comparing Davis to Crawford.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
12:59 9 Feb 18

Reply #671682

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Luuuc did that. I just argued his point.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
13:07 9 Feb 18

Reply #671683

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Are there positions for the team, other than two backcourt and three frontcourt players?


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
13:12 9 Feb 18

Reply #671685

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Having a fan vote make up the official 40th anniversary team is patently ridiculous. Heal in the 10 is a prime example. Won just one championship only because of Goorj, and while he was undeniably talented, he was always about himself and never the team. Top 50 player all-time, no question. Top 10? No frigging way. In there just because he's on television and still has notoriety.

There are any number of coaches, ex-players and media people who have been around since day one of the NBL who should have been involved in this and whose expert status should have been weighed about those of the average fan. But they weren't, so to me, the whole exercise has been a waste of time.


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Hogwash
Two weeks ago
13:14 9 Feb 18

Reply #671686

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Crawford had Vlahov, Grace and who else?

Cal Bruton, Tiny Pinder and Scott Fisher were pretty handy players at Perth when Crawford played. Even Mike Ellis too though not a star like the others was still a key part of the team.

It isn't much of an argument as one was a power forward and the other was a centre.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
13:18 9 Feb 18

Reply #671687

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

"All NBL Team 1987

#PlayerTeam
PG Steve Carfino Hobart Devils
SG Andrew Gaze Melbourne Tigers
SF Leroy Loggins Brisbane Bullets
PF Mark Davis Adelaide 36ers
C James Crawford Perth Wildcats

I don't see why people are upset that I have Davis at PF and Crawford at C."

Nice dig up there Udog. I also had someone have a go at me for having Davis at PF and Crawford at C.

Classic example below:

Poster who wrote "yeah and Kuiper, Pinder, Hansen, Allen, etc were shooting guards" - You were saying?

So sick of people on here talking out of their ass!


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
13:22 9 Feb 18

Reply #671688

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

"So sick of people on here talking out of their ass!"

Just like the guy who said Crawford only had Grace and Vlahov to contend with for statistical output.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
13:22 9 Feb 18

Reply #671689

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

It wasn't a dig. I just wanted to back up my reasoning. Crawford is in my 5 is all I'm saying but I couldn't go past Davis at PF.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
13:32 9 Feb 18

Reply #671692

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

"Just like the guy who said Crawford only had Grace and Vlahov to contend with for statistical output."

That was another great example!


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
13:33 9 Feb 18

Reply #671693

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

"It wasn't a dig. I just wanted to back up my reasoning. Crawford is in my 5 is all I'm saying but I couldn't go past Davis at PF."

Udog I said "nice dig up" as in you dug up some good information with that '87 team basically mirroring our 40th teams.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
13:35 9 Feb 18

Reply #671694

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

At least it's a healthy debate. Shows there's plenty of talent that we've been spoiled with over the years no matter who you support.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
13:35 9 Feb 18

Reply #671695

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Oops. I just had a look. Sorry mate


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Dome Rat
Two weeks ago
13:36 9 Feb 18

Reply #671697

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Rogers was the one Boomer I missed

Read my post again. I listed HOF's and Boomers Olympians.

I don’t think Cal is a HOF ( yet) and don’t recall him being an Olympian


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Luuuc
Two weeks ago
13:43 9 Feb 18

Reply #671699

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Luuuc did that. I just argued his point.


When I did my vote I tried to do it by position, if for no other reason than to help me simplify things.
So yeah, I went with JC over Davis at the 4 spot, and for me it was not a simple call, just as Grace over D-Mac was not a simple call at PG, and neither was my pick of Rose over Loggins.
IMO there's plenty of good arguments for any of those to go either way.

And FWIW I never considered Crawford to be a centre. For me, the whole point of picking guys by position is to achnowledge that each spot has different requirements. For me, Bradtke at the 5 was probably the easiest of my 5 picks. And there's no way in the world I could justify Crawford as a better 5 than Bradtke.
That how I see it and everyone else is welcome to their own methodology. That's kind of the point of canvassing the whole country's opinions. It is inherently a subjective thing.


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Luuuc
Two weeks ago
13:44 9 Feb 18

Reply #671700

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

(sorry ... Gaze at the 2 was clearly the easiest pick... Bradtke was 2nd-easiest)


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Isaac
Two weeks ago
13:50 9 Feb 18

Reply #671704

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Are there positions for the team, other than two backcourt and three frontcourt players?
No, it was a positionless team. You just picked the best five you wanted, though many naturally approached it wanting to create a viable team. Probably also wasn't hurt by the fact that after Gaze, there were multiple players at a position who had a case.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
14:21 9 Feb 18

Reply #671709

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Mathew Neilson was better than Bradkte but played a lot years in euro league. cJ Bruton was far better than Heal and won multiple championship with different clubs. Always hard to compare eras when players are fitter, more professional and refereeing interpretations change.


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FM
Two weeks ago
14:39 9 Feb 18

Reply #671716

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Heal making the second team shows how bad the knowledge was.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
17:23 9 Feb 18

Reply #671736

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Tiny Pinder was robbed.


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Udog
Two weeks ago
12:38 10 Feb 18

Reply #672057

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Just to add to the argument for Davis at PF Crawford at C. After Davis arrived in 85 he made the all nbl 1st team 5 times as well as his MVP awards. Crawford made the team only once after Davis arrived and was named as a center.


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Anonymous
Two weeks ago
12:57 10 Feb 18

Reply #672062

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

we get it Udog your dad was a good player


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Udog
Two weeks ago
13:02 10 Feb 18

Reply #672064

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Your Mum finally told you....


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Udog
Two weeks ago
17:32 10 Feb 18

Reply #672104

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Actually did they name a coach? I didn't see anything.


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DJMOJOFOSHOSHO
Last week
21:48 12 Feb 18

Reply #672525

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Al Green was robbed bigtime


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Anonymous
Last week
23:16 12 Feb 18

Reply #672533

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Coach would be Goorjian. No one comes close to him.


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Anonymous
Last week
23:46 12 Feb 18

Reply #672537

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Brett Brown for coach


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Anonymous
Last week
00:16 13 Feb 18

Reply #672538

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Come off it. He under achieved in the NBL. Clearly saying that with NBA tinted glasses.


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Udog
Last week
11:37 13 Feb 18

Reply #672569

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Goorjian definitely due to wins/ accolades but his teams/ tactics weren't always overly exciting.


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D2.0
Last week
01:09 14 Feb 18

Reply #672660

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

Hard to argue with most of that, and David and D-Mac made the bench.
Keep in mind that it was based on fan votes. I'd have Davis ahead of Bradke, and voted that way, but Bradke probably pooled more votes from Melbourne.

Apart from hating on the Cats, really can't fathom how people could question Grace's selection. At his best D-Mac was his equal, and we've seen better PG's since, but Grace's overall career is 2nd to none (for PG.)

Loggins v Rose is the eternal debate, both outstanding and deserve their places, Loggins probably tips it with his longevity.

It's interesting that despite being based purely on aggregate votes, they ended up with a reasonably balanced side.


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D2.0
Last week
21:21 16 Feb 18

Reply #673160

re: NBL 40th Anniversary team

PS: JC could play either the 4 or 5, however his vertical leap and lack of range made him more suited to the 5 for most of his career.
Davis, from memory, played more as a genuine PF, although IIRC he was often named at centre in "all-star" lineups.

As mentioned, for mine I would and did have both.

If forced to pick one or the other it would be a tough call, and only my 30+ years of loyalty would sway me to vote for JC.
And remember it was a fan vote so that probably saw JC and Bradke edge Davis to the Bench.


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