ferdterguson
Last year

Should the NBL or NBL Clubs move into pokies

The Melbourne Demons have abandoned poker machines.

With TV money they can afford to get rid of this revenue stream.

The NBL without a lucrative TV deal need alternative revenue streams.

Community pressure around this topic high, and there are a lot of negatives although in building a sustainable league with clubs that can survive in a tough environment it may be something to consider.

Topic #43043 | Report this topic


Jack Toft  
Last year

No.

The market is already saturated. Australia has 20% of the world's pokies.
I understand that 80% of the pokies are controlled by two players as well.

They do more damage than they should

Reply #682376 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

i think the NBL is heading the right way currently. Poker machines are never a good thing.

Reply #682379 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Awful way for a club to make money. Prey on its own members. Yuck. No thanks.

Reply #682385 | Report this post


Reality  
Last year

It would make sense as it secures a good revenue stream.

AFL clubs are lucky they can divest into other interests but lets see how long it lasts if the next round of AFL TV rights aren't as big as the last round.

Reply #682386 | Report this post


Smith  
Last year

Terrible idea.

Reply #682388 | Report this post


maxymoo  
Last year

No.

If the Cats did it they could kiss goodbye our memberships

Reply #682390 | Report this post


Smith  
Last year

Maybe branch out and invest in off shore detention also.

Reply #682392 | Report this post


Melbourne Boy  
Last year

People will play pokies no matter who owns them, an NBL club could get in on the action with no impact, do you hear about the money the Crows or Magpies make from Pokies? No they just take $10mil per year out of a pie that is not growing any larger or smaller based on ownership.

Reply #682395 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

If the Cats did it they could kiss goodbye our memberships


WA doesn't allow pokies in pubs and clubs anyway.

Reply #682402 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"People will play pokies no matter who owns them, an NBL club could get in on the action with no impact"

I guess this is the same logic that allows drug dealers to sleep at night. It's harmful but there is a market so it might as well be me rather than someone else making big money off vulnerable people.

Reply #682405 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

I am in full support of using pokies and gambling as a source of revenue for the NBL provided it is profitable for the clubs.

Pokies get a bad name, but most people gamble responsibly. No one is forced with a gun to their head to gamble.

You can put in as little as you want.

You can walk out at any time.

You can even choose not to go in. No one is forced to do anything they don't want.

There are mitigants to those who cannot control themselves like self-exclusion.

People want vices, allow NBL clubs to profit from it, they are going to do it whether NBL pokies are there or not.

If its not NBL pokies, it will be AFL/NRL pokies.

If AFL/NRL pokies are taken away they will go to Crown / Star City.

If Crown / Star City were torn down, they'd go to Bet365 / Sportsbet.

If be365 were taken away they'd go to the back of the local Chinese Restaurent.

Reply #682408 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

How would that work? Do any NBL teams have club rooms or bars or wherever these pokie machines would be located?

Reply #682410 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

We tend to like our sports to be family friendly and a good role model for society - Pokies is not that out of the sheer fact it's specifically designed to be predatory to vulnerable people. There’s a bit of a difference between giving odds to attract people who want to take a punt and the psychology behind the the music, lights, return/win ratio on pokie machines. The idea that people can just walk away is to not understand the entire design and affect of the machine, the addiction it creates is not something people can just choose to walk away from.

Silly clueless comment - and the reasoning for avoiding a non family friendly revenue stream for a family friendly sport is an obvious one.

Reply #682411 | Report this post


Young Gun  
Last year

Pokies work best when they're located in struggling areas. The double benefit is that the social problems they create are a long way away from the beneficiaries of the profits, so, out of sight, out of mind. Sounds like a win/win for an NBL club located in the heart of the city. That model seems to have worked for the Melbourne-based AFL clubs.

Reply #682413 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

Do any NBL teams have club rooms or bars or wherever these pokie machines would be located?


Not right now but if this were given the Green light, it would be simply someone finding a premises and setting it up.

Australia's laws allow amongst the worlds lowest payout rate on Pokies making them extremely profitable, so even a sizable investment can be clawed back 'relatively soon'.

There will be some issues with this policies though.

WA doesn't allow Pokies so at least one team will miss out on this revenue.

Smaller centres like Cairns can also expect less patronage/revenue, but there will be a big boost in revenue every second Thursday to make up for it.

Reply #682415 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I am in full support of using methamphetamine dealing as a source of revenue for the NBL, provided it is profitable for the clubs.

Most people smoke it responsibly. No one is forced to smoke meth with a gun to their head.

You can smoke as much or as little as you want.

You can put down the pipe at any time.

People want vices, allow NBL clubs to profit from it, they are going to do it whether NBL meth is there or not.

If it's not NBL meth, it's that back of the Chinese takeaway meth......

Reply #682416 | Report this post


Yo Yo  
Last year

That boat has sailed in South Australia at least

Reply #682418 | Report this post


ME  
Last year

Maybe each NBL team should open a chain of brothels as well.

Reply #682419 | Report this post


Bob Sels  
Last year

I used to operate the Pussycat Club back in my home country of Belgium. I could advise on this new business venture with the Wildcats.

Reply #682421 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

The idea that people can just walk away is to not understand the entire design and affect of the machine, the addiction it creates is not something people can just choose to walk away from.


That is a cop out.

By taking this stance, you take personal responsibility away from the individual, like the average individual cannot handle themselves.

Gambling is gambling whether its pulling a lever, using an app or going all in because you have the nuts hand on the River.

Gambling has already entrenched itself in 'family sports'. Our beloved NBL has Ladbrokes as a sponsor.

Even the NBA is wringing their hands at the prospects of gambling revenue.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/01/24/nba-compensation-legalized-gambling-adam-silver/1064240001/

I am not saying gambling is good for the community, it is a vice after all. In moderation it is acceptable, like tobacco and alcohol.

Most people will be responsible, and I (together with other bodies like the State government, AFL, NRL) am willing to turn a blind eye to those who refuse personal responsibility and fall through the cracks.

For some reason that escapes me Humans want vices, not surprisingly simply not allowing them to have it has not worked.

Reply #682422 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

The idea that people can just walk away is to not understand the entire design and affect of the machine, the addiction it creates is not something people can just choose to walk away from.


Awesome example of Strawman.

Reply #682423 | Report this post


TimberBall  
Last year

As said above, WA Doesn't allow pokies outside of the Casino. And event if they did, the major sponsor of the Cats is 'Alcohol, Think Again'...great message to send out 'Alcohol, think about gambling instead'

Reply #682425 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Coles and Woolworths are the 2 biggest owners of pokies in Australia.

Reply #682426 | Report this post


Matt  
Last year

yes, sport is a business and the clubs have every right to make money no matter how imoral if it's legal, get over it some of you. I'd rather the NBL stays financially viable and has better players even if it ruins people's lives, than a less higher standard of NBL. the NBL comes first the average aussie comes 2nd get over it some of you. And don't complain some of you if they don't do pokies for a greedy cash grab if it means the NBL has a lower standard. Even if people die via the nBL allowing clubs to have pokies if it means a higher standard of NBL then that's all that counts, otherwise don't whinge if the standard is lower and less financially viable. Get over it, the NBL doesn't have to care about the average aussie, if your so outraged you should campaign about making pokies illegal..

Reply #682427 | Report this post


ME  
Last year

Basketball is a family sport. Gambling destroys families. You don't want to be seen as advocating for that.

Reply #682428 | Report this post


snooch  
Last year

Then why is Ladbrokes a major sponsor of the NBL if you "don't want to be advocating" gambling?

Reply #682430 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

Aussie Rules is a family sport.

They have CrownBet as a sponsor.

They also have Carlton Draught, Jim Beam and Wolf Blass as sponsors, doesn't excessive alcohol 'destroy families' too?

Reply #682442 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

AFL/NRL seems to be loved by families despite their reliance on electronic machines.

Reply #682443 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

> but there will be a big boost in revenue every second Thursday to make up for it.

the fact you know there is a strong link to the most vulnerable members of society already tells us you know its a bad idea.

Reply #682445 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last year

Pokies are not family friendly.

Pokies could potentially work in the eastern states, but would you morally support your club profiting from harming the vulnerable?

"But have you seen the damage pokies have inflicted on the most socioeconomically disadvantaged areas of NSW, Vic and Qld? The registered clubs boast about their community contributions. They're smart about it, handing out sums that are small compared to their poke revenues but large to the recipients. The best thing for a person to do with these clubs is to join the club with the best meals, at the cheapest member rate ($10 for 3 years is possible) and never set foot beyond the poke demarcation line."

Pokies operators target vulnerable people. There is well publicised research around the proliferation of the most profitable pokies in struggling communities, and how venues use the psychology of addiction to milk addicted punters for all they can.

I wrote above in response to a Nick Xenophon themed topic. Nothing has changed since then, although I'm sure quite a few more families have been torn apart or made homeless since then.





Reply #682450 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

All the above is 100% the fault and responsibility of the individual.

Not the club.

Not the machine.

Not Aristocrat Ltd.

Lights, jingly music, colours don't get people hooked on gambling. People get themselves hooked on gambling.

Reply #682467 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

As said above, the research and evidence is clear, and is in direct contrast to overly simplified dumbed down logic that love broker is trying to pedal.

LB I have no doubt you can reconcile in your own mind your own opinion having more weight than evidence and the well known psychological aspects; but you're probably the only one with so much confidence in your own opinion.

Reply #682468 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

No. No no no. No

The "individual responsibility" line is a cop out. Gambling harm is a public health issue like any kind of substance abuse.

AFL clubs are realising they can't be good members of the community while sucking money from people who can least afford it, with several more clubs looking to go down the path of the Demons. It would be a PR disaster for NBL clubs to get into it, not to mention make them pretty despicable.

Getting rid of their ladbrokes sponsorship would also be a good move, but less likely.

Reply #682470 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

I can reconcile with my position because I know most people will be responsible gamblers. The small section of the community sans self control and personal responsibility will go down their path whether it's pokies or Crown.

Pokies have self limiting technology and also one can exclude oneself. The necessary controls are there.

If these people continue to slip through the cracks, it's the person in the mirror that is the issue

Reply #682471 | Report this post


Matt  
Last year

some of you are saying gambling sponsorship should be banned like tobacoo, well don't complain if the NBL has less money as no gambling sponsors so less money on good players and a viable league. But hay the average aussie comes first to you not a viable NBL right? Give up getting Bryce Cotton standard imports then with your doing the "right thing" atittude, enjoy the moral high ground and public health concerns as in return you will kill the NBL or have it a drop in standard. But hay if it means saving aussie lives that's what counts right? Um wrong, the NBL doesn't have to give 2 hoots about the average aussie, I want bryce cotton imports damn it not Bo Lu standard or Jim Havrilla standard.. Oh and chris golding types will leave oz but hay you lot are happy to watch Kyle adlam instead right despite being an inferior player..

Reply #682472 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

Clearly you can reconcile to yourself but your argument at the moment is you or neuroscience; I think most people on hoops will go the latter mate. Anytime you go against evidence it's a tough hill to climb

Reply #682473 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

NBL needs more gambling not less of it.

Reply #682489 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

At least betting is partially a game of skill rather than just mindless chance.
Pokies are the lowest of the low IMO. There comes a point where personal freedom needs to be weighed up against impact on other people. People losing everything to pokies doesn't just affect them it affects their family and other relationships and ultimately also affects the public who ends up paying tax dollars to feed their habit. Pokies are almost as bad as ice to me.

Reply #682509 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

About 18% of people who gamble suffer some kind of harm from gambling, but when it comes to pokies, that number is over 33%, which makes it the most harmful form of gambling (next is race betting at around 25%)

Reply #682515 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

These electronic machines make gambling look bad. How the F did Australia get to this point where machines are everywhere. I'm in WA where we don't have them but over east they are everywhere which is unbelievable to me? Totally disgusting. and because of the machines being harmful but abundant it is an excuse to restrict other forms of gambling but not the machines (sports bettors/poker players will know what I mean). Disgusting state and federal governments.

Reply #682539 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

govermints is bad

Reply #682543 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

About 18% of people who gamble suffer some kind of harm from gambling, but when it comes to pokies, that number is over 33%, which makes it the most harmful form of gambling (next is race betting at around 25%)


How is 'some kind of harm' quantified? If its just opportunity cost, then I too have suffered harm when I put $50 on Adelaide, lost and had $50 less to spend on Dinner.

I am not arguing there is no harm, but I want to re-iterate that we as a society, our elected government, our major sporting bodies all accept that gambling is something we willingly tolerate.

Reply #682549 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

How the F did Australia get to this point where machines are everywhere. I'm in WA where we don't have them but over east they are everywhere which is unbelievable to me?


In a perfect world there would be no appetite for gambling, and also no global warming, no cancer and no taxation.

We don't live in that perfect world and unfortunately people on Planet Earth like to gamble and a lot of money is involved.

With the sheer amount of revenue generated for governments (not just here but abroad too), it's become like a pseudo tax....$5.5b back in 2011.

http://www.qgso.qld.gov.au/products/reports/aus-gambling-stats/aus-gambling-stats-29th-edn.pdf

But it’s the best tax to have, it’s entirely discretionary whether you pay it.

I cannot blame governments for wanting to reap the rewards of gambling, it’s simply too lucrative.

Reply #682551 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I gather 30 years ago you would have argued the same for tobacco sponsorship, ignoring the harm to make a quick buck. Studies have since showed that, even with all the tax dollars governments made from tobacco, the cost (social, health etc) was higher. I'm not pretending gambling harm is the same, but increasingly research is showing that the harm it causes society largley mitigates the money in brings in.

Reply #682555 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

It's a joke the worst form of gambling being machines are everywhere but live betting on sport is restricted and recently online poker was banned. They pick and choose what is allowed as the TAB/bookies grease the wheel.

Reply #682556 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

Reply #682563 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last year

Agreed.

We have banned online Poker like Pokerstars as well.

Reply #682565 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

How about a tax on moronic ideas?
"LoveBroker" would fund the entire NBL

Reply #682589 | Report this post


Spot Up  
Last year

36ers could do well from pokies. Their members are already happy to pour their $$ into something that gives no chance of a return.



Just kiddIng guys.

The AFL clubs are doing the right thing by beginning to get out of pokies, most are moving in this direction already. The money would certainly be tempting to NBL clubs but once it becomes a revenue source it's be almost impossible to give up, and wouldn’t be a good look for the NBL brand..

Reply #682642 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

almost impossible to give up but the trend in afl is clubs giving it up?

Reply #682644 | Report this post


Spot Up  
Last year

AFL clubs can afford it, or the league can at least. NBL clubs don't exactly have the same financial security.

Reply #682663 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Are NRL also moving away from pokies? I doubt it.

Reply #682664 | Report this post


Russ  
Last year

If the NBL went with the "Hokey Pokey" they could turn themselves around!

Reply #682692 | Report this post


D2.0  
Last year

Pokies don't generate money, they take it. Buy the time you rent the machines and licences, pay the management fee, and pay the government taxes, that is a huge net flow of cash OUT of your community.

Are pokies even legal in other states? I know some are, but I thought many still weren't (like WA.)

And where exactly should they put them? I wasn't aware that teams had Leagues Clubs or similar?

Gambling apologists also need to wake up to reality.
Claims that "most people are responsible gamblers" are misleading. That's like saying that most people in America don't shoot people, so they don't have a gun problem.
Do you really think the Billions of dollars they rake in come from "responsible gamblers" occasionally dropping $20???
The Crown casino runs a "club" where for TEN dollars, you get a coach ride to the casino, nice lunch, a beer, and $20 worth of chips. And yes, MOST people spend only the $10.
So HOW do you figure they make money from this??
Its because a small percentage of people will get hooked, and start dropping serious money. And sadly, its not people who can afford it.

Reply #682739 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

That's great value, though I don't think I could even physically eat $20 worth of chips.

Reply #682741 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Titan 60

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
Westside Basketball Association
PickStar - The best place to book sports stars
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



Invoicing clients? Stay productive with Punch, the insightful time tracker that earns you more.

Special offer: $30/month Pay $100 for lifetime access. Sign up now!

.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 10:59 pm, Sun 15 Sep 2019 | Posts: 789,816 | Last 7 days: 1,852