Anonymous
Earlier this year

Did LeBron ruin the Cavs?

Before he came back they had Kyrie, drafted Wiggins and some other high picks (disregard Bennett). Even if the Love trade goes through he would be more like the Minnesota Love than the resulting Cleveland Love having to defer to LeBron, let's not forget he was regarded a top 2 or 3 power forwards. Sure LeBron took them to title games and won 1 title, but with it looking likely he's jumping ship again, Cleveland will be a lottery team again with a junk roster. Having that young roster and maybe adding a good free agent or 2,would they be in better position like Philadelphia than current predicament.
No disrespect to LeBron but based on what looks likely to happen, Cleveland are gonna suck big time in years to come.

Topic #43467 | Report this topic


AngusH  
Earlier this year

With Kyrie and Wiggins they would have still sucked and would never have won a title. So, no.

Reply #691996 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Made the finals how many times since joining?

Reply #691997 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Earlier this year

- He broke the city's title drought

- He took them to the Finals every year he was there. Without him they don't make the Finals once in that span

- Wiggins was given ample opportunity to show his wares in Minnesota and hasn't, so logic says he doesn't become a superstar in Cleveland either

- Can't comment on Kevin Love, but it is highly unlikely they even consider him if LeBron isn't there. They brought in Love to fit with Bron, Wiggins would've stayed as a ball-dominant player if Bron wasn't there

- Cleveland is not a desirable free agent destination, so it's not as though they could build a contender with acquisitions

- Cleveland front office seems to be off the rails, so if they continued getting lottery picks there is no guarantee that would pan out well

- Kyrie may have gotten sick of the losing and wanted to leave

- LeBron single-handedly brought millions and millions to the Cleveland economy

Reply #691998 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Earlier this year

As said above they won the title.

People forgot how big that was for not only the franchise but the entire city.

You'd happily take a championship and all the finals appearances they've had even if it meant a bad rebuilding period after.

Think about how many teams out there who haven't won a title over the last 30 years.

Reply #692000 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

It can be both. He gave the Cavs great success, but also screwed them over by insisting on signing players well above their worth.

Reply #692002 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

LMFAO to this thread.

Before lebron came to the cavs they had the worst combined record even with Kyrie. The CITY of Cleveland did not have a national title in any of the major sports. The economy not just of the Cavs but the city has developed exponentially.

Reply #692003 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Earlier this year

"It can be both. He gave the Cavs great success, but also screwed them over by insisting on signing players well above their worth."

Disagree that it can be both. Its a simple case of cost vs. Benefit. The only question at the end of the day is basically whether the championship and finals series, sponsorship $ etc all outweighed signing players up to big deals?

That for me is a resounding yes. It was all worth it. Without a doubt.

So many teams in the league are cooked as it is without having the championships, finals appearances and success that CLE have had. I know what Id rather have as an owner.

Reply #692004 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Earlier this year

"The economy not just of the Cavs but the city has developed exponentially."

Slight hyperbole.

Reply #692005 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

1 title in 11 years for Cleveland? The one title was probably a miracle in hindsight. The fact they haven't won more during his time there is as much about management and ownership as it is about Lebron.

Forget Jordan for a second, but compare that to Duncan in San Antonio, Kobe in LA, Shaq in LA.

Reply #692006 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

No lebron = no title.

Watch a documentary called Believeland and get a feel for how much the city was dying for a championship.

Better thread title: KD ruined the NBA

Reply #692011 | Report this post


Hogwash  
Earlier this year

More realistic thread title is KD ruined the NBA.

Reply #692012 | Report this post


hoopie  
Earlier this year

As long as we're not discussing in a year's time how LBJ ruined the Sixers ...

Reply #692019 | Report this post


Sirjump  
Earlier this year

It's hard to agree that LeBron "ruined" the Cavs when they became one of 6 teams (GSW did too, at the same time) to make it to 4 consecutive NBA Finals series in NBA history. And they picked up one ring in that stretch against one of the best rosters in history.

Sure, they've mortgaged their future to get there (agree with some of the earlier comments regarding some pretty awful contracts), but I'm pretty sure any other franchise would still take the last 4 year run in a heartbeat.

Reply #692058 | Report this post


GreggJulian  
Earlier this year

LeBron could have done all that (the ring and 4 straight finals appearances) without nuking the roster. No reason Kyrie shouldn't still be there, and resigning headcase JR Smith was Bron's idea, which contributed to onerous Luxury Tax situation.

Reply #692073 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

He also insists on running the team, while complaining that he has to run the team, and whinging that he doesn't have a point guard to help him. He is capable of running plays, but I don't think he is good at running a team. I don't think it would be a good situation for a talented point guard. He had far too much influence compiling his team on bad deals. I wouldn't know how much was James, or Lue, but IMO they did a terrible job of empowering everyone other than James.

Reply #692075 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Earlier this year

"No reason Kyrie shouldn't still be there"

What do you mean?

He didn't want to be there. He basically left. Don't know how you equate that to Lebron "nuking the roster".

People will make out like LBJ/management pushed him away and that may well be a contributing factor - but 90% of it came down to Kyrie simply wanting to move on.

Whilst I have said above that I think the benefit the Cavs got out of it definitely outweighed the cost of it all - I will say (as GreggJulian has alluded to), that LBJ did on some occasions force the Cavs into some bad deals both in 2008-2010 and again in 2015-2016. The Cavs back in 2009 from memory were cooked financially and I remember they signed Shaq and had other players on ridicolous money. From memory, I remember the main reason he left Miami was because the Cavs were in such a cooked financial position with hamstrung contracts that they simply couldn't afford to get other FA's to join LBJ in CLE.

Anyway - as I said above, it was all worth it. And the harder you push for a championship, the more mistakes you are probably going to make so hard to be critical from my perspective and I support it.


Reply #692079 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

MACDUB you make much more sense these days. I remember when you use to trash Bron about 5 years ago. Glad to see you have gone Bronsexual.

Reply #692083 | Report this post


AngusH  
Earlier this year

Kyrie told the Cavs if they didn't trade him he would have offseason knee surgery and miss the season. Instead they traded him, he didn't have the surgery, and ended up missing the playoffs for Boston because of a knee injury. As a Cavs fan it felt like a tiny bit of karma at least...

Reply #692087 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"He didn't want to be there. He basically left. Don't know how you equate that to Lebron "nuking the roster".

People will make out like LBJ/management pushed him away and that may well be a contributing factor - but 90% of it came down to Kyrie simply wanting to move on.
"

90%? How do you quantify that? He may have wanted to move on BECAUSE of Lebron/management (which is largely the same thing).

Reply #692091 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Lebron just inst a winner

Reply #692093 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

If le Bron isn't a winner I’d like to lose as much. GOAT

Reply #692100 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

MJ is a winner therefore GOAT. LBJ horrible win % in Finals.

Reply #692108 | Report this post


Isaac  
Earlier this year

Brooklyn mortgaged their future and it was for nothing. So you can argue that there is a cost for that Cavs championship, but the road they've taken is little different to that of other teams making questionable moves but without much to show for it.

In the history books, a championship is everything.

Reply #692133 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

MJ got swept in the first round a couple of times

Reply #692140 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Jordan's early teammates make LeBrons look like the warriors.

Reply #692148 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"MJ got swept in the first round a couple of times"

He got beat down by Celtics, Pistons but plugged away and ended up beating them. Not leaving for Miami.

Reply #692154 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Front office has lots to answer for.

JR Smith isn't worth $15mil a year. Nowhere near it.

Trades didn't work out and now they're stuck paying George Hill $20mil /yr.

Two overpaid guards on $35 mil between them.

Add Tristan Thompson to that and you've got 3 guys on $50 mil/yr. Half the salary cap.

Although to be fair, at the time Thompson's deal didn't seem as horrible as it does now. He hasn't come along as hoped.

Reply #692178 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

LeBron's "mate's rates" have really backfired on him. I knew the pay was too steep but wow $50mil steep is shocking.

Reply #692182 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

As a sidenote to the MJ vs. LBJ debate now I have n00bs telling me KD is better than MJ. How people have short memories, a few days ago it was LBJ > MJ. Further proof people go with the current flavour (e.g. Kobe back in the day).

Reply #692183 | Report this post


Anonomous  
Earlier this year

JR Smith worth $15m? Was he ever better than he is now? Defensive, offensive and salary cap liability - all because he does gaytime hand jive things with LBJ.

Reply #692184 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

JR was signed during the salary cap boom, he isn't the only poor contract going around because of that.

Reply #692185 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Anon #184 LeBron has mentioned that he has known JR since high school. They go back a long way which makes it easier to understand why he is being looked after. It really came back to bite him in Game 1...

Reply #692190 | Report this post


Isaac  
Earlier this year

I think LeBron fancies his team-building skills a little more than he should. Not convinced he can get along brilliantly with a very strategic coach that will coordinate and power a mid-range roster. And he carries a lot of influence in thinking "If I have Tristan and JR here, plus we get X and Y, surely I can make that work..."

In Miami, he had Allen and Battier, and that's on top of Haslem, Miller, Jones, etc and obviously Wade and Bosh. In Cleveland's championship, he had some vets that wouldn't need much hand-holding.

Cleveland 2018 had Calderon who didn't get played, Perkins in a suit, Korver who stunk up the Finals, JR who is a risky headcase, etc. Clarkson, Nance and Hood are still young. Green isn't great.

Reply #692210 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I think it's not just who they had on the roster, but that they didn't do much to get them involved in plays, and getting sufficient, regular minutes throughout the regular season. You can't expect young guys who are not involved in plays and haven't had enough court time to be good in the finals.

Furthermore, James appears to fill the entire leadership space in the team, but he rests in defense. His work rate is amazing for his age, but young players joining the roster half way through the season may benefit from a more involved leader at the defensive end, and directing transition. It seems that if James isn't hustling and communicating, others on the team do as he does.

Reply #692229 | Report this post




 

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