Isaac
Last year

Lakers-Spurs face-off over Kawhi

It's all getting interesting now. Boston, Cleveland, Philly and LAC have all made trade offers for Kawhi, but if Leonard tells them he'll be a brief rental before signing with the Lakers as a FA, they'll be deterred.

If the Lakers get Kawhi, it seems they're expecting to get LeBron to opt out and head their way. LeBron has until Friday night US time to make the decision re opting out/in.

The Spurs have been holding LAL at arms' length, but if Kawhi damages his trade value elsewhere, it might force them to act.

All the expectations about championships and legacy are creating these desperate superteams. Players either have to join the Warriors or create a viable contender, or they'll dribble out their prime, ringless.


On the Spurs side of the balance, they made the play-offs last season with minimal contribution from Kawhi, so perhaps some decent young pieces could keep them in contention? Lakers contributors, by stats, were:

Randle 16 and 8
Kuzma 16 and 5
Ingram 16/5/4

Wonder what they think of Ball? He's a circus, but I wonder if Pop would be intrigued?

Topic #43530 | Report this topic


AK-47  
Last year

I could see Kawhi going to the Lakers for Ingram. I think Ingram has the tools to develop into a very similar player to Leonard and the Spurs certainly have a track record of getting the most out of their players. Certainly wouldn't be surprised if a deal like that went down and then in 2-3 years the Spurs are still around the mark with Ingram leading the way.

Reply #693518 | Report this post


Duke Fan  
Last year

As a Lakers fan Ingram is the last guy I want them to give up. Potential superstar. They can have Lonzo. Don't want to lose Kuzma or Randle either

Reply #693519 | Report this post


KET  
Last year

You're getting greedy Dukefan. Kawhi to Lakers without Ingram or Randle and Kuzma? No chanceeee

Reply #693524 | Report this post


AKA  
Last year

I'm with Duke Fan here as a Lakers guy. On one hand they should do everything they can to get a talent like Leonard but I'd be hesitant in giving up too much of the young core. A Randle, Hart (who always seemed like a Spurs guy when he was at Villanova) plus future picks and cash for Leonard trade would be ideal. Ingram would be the only player of that young Laker group I would not want to involve but it may take that for a deal to be done.

Reply #693525 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

If you need to get Kawhi before landing Lebron then you would assume Randle, Ball, Ingram or Kuz would be possibilities.
Id keep Kuz over Ingram.
Wouldn't surprise me if it required a 3rd or 4th team to get involved and players moving everywhere.

Reply #693531 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Spurs fan. Don't want Ball or Randle, thanks. Ingram and one other half decent piece is fine. Hart and Ingram would be acceptable, Kuzma and Ingram would be more than enough. I'd also take Ingram and a future first round pick (preferably that 2021 draft where the one and done rule likely changes so it should be unusually deep), banking on the Lakers missing out on Lebron. If they happen to get him for the 2019 and 2020 seasons, no guarantee he's still there in 2021 and we all know what post-Lebron teams look like.

Reply #693533 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last year

At which position(s) do the Spurs have most need?

Reply #693535 | Report this post


AKA  
Last year

There is a snowflakes chance in hell the Lakers depart with Kuzma and Ingram. They are the 2 best pieces so I imagine one of them will be tied up in the deal but not both.

Reply #693536 | Report this post


Anon99  
Last year

Spurs won't give up Kawhi without getting either Ingram or Kuzma, but that should be a moot point.

Lakes fans have to think bigger picture. Would you give up Ingram and/or Kuza for Kawhi and Lebron? Would you give up two potential future All Starts for two current Superstars? Because if you can land Kawhi, you're getting Lebron.

And the short answer there should be a no brainer. Because Kawhi on his own in 12 months time as a free agent would be good but him, coupled with and the existing Lakers roster, isn't getting you past the GSW or the Rockets.

Lebron + Kawhi with IT and some support guys, you might have a shot.

Reply #693547 | Report this post


Duke Fan  
Last year

"Lebron + Kawhi with IT and some support guys, you might have a shot."


Lebron with IT, Ingram, Kuzma, Randle, Lonzo (just wish the father would go away) and some other pieces they can get through free agency and they have a shot as well. After the pain of recent seasons I'm just not sure if it's worth trading away future allstars that we've developed through the draft for someone who's shown a questionable attitude. Yes, loads of talent, but happy to spit the dummy and sit out if he's not getting stroked enough. I'm not 100% sure it will come to to both or neither. If they can get James without having to trade away their young stars I'd be happier

Reply #693570 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

That's crazy, Duke Fan. No way Lebron and the current Lakers roster goes anywhere near Houston or Golden State. Lonzo/IT and Lebron are a poor fit - Lebron needs a PG who can play effectively off the ball and without moving one of those two, you don't have that. Not to mention that the current Lakers roster was pretty woeful. Questions about the Lakers selling high on the young kids before they get into playoff basketball and some of their numbers turn out to be empty are smart. Not every kid posting 15/8 in the regular season is Jason Taytum.

Isaac, the Spurs have needs everywhere. I think Murray is probably the best long-term piece on the roster, though being the Spurs they might turn one of the other young guys into something better than he has any right to be. But most of the rest of their 'core' is aging, and if Kawhi is gone in 2019 anyway, resetting with Ingram, another young player and a couple of picks might be a good option. If they could turn Aldridge into young players, they'll suck for a couple of years and come good. Fans wouldn't complain because last time the Spurs missed the playoffs, Tim Duncan happened.

Reply #693578 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

I agree with above.

People have been talking about stars going to LAL for months now; but is there current core of players really that good and stable to suggest that stars could simply come in and automatically challenge GSW and Houston to even get to the finals.

The way I see it, LAL doesn't have any more of a better core than a lot of other teams in the league - the only linkage there is because Lebron (apparently) wants to go to LA (and they have salary space)

Reply #693579 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last year

People have been talking about stars going to LA for ... a decade?

Reply #693583 | Report this post


Reality  
Last year

The Lakers need the deal more than the Spurs becuase is PG13 doesn;t come LBJ won't come!

If Lakers sign both PG13 & LBJ they've got no room for Kwahi in 2019.

The Lakers will need to make this happen in the next week or if they don't pull off LBJ/PG13 they'll get even more desperate and give up even more to the Spurs.

Remember there is always a desperate GM trying to save his job so the Spurs will get offers once the season starts from teams trying to get over the hump of GM's trying to save there bacon.

Can't think the spurs will be pulling the trigger in the short term unless the deal was simply to good to say no.

Reply #693585 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"If the Lakers get Kawhi, it seems they're expecting to get LeBron to opt out and head their way. LeBron has until Friday night US time to make the decision re opting out/in."

The only thing LeBron opting out will do is tell us he's not interested in going to a team like Houston (i.e. teams without cap room to sign him outright), which needs him to opt-in to do a trade.

Opting out could still mean he's staying in Cleveland by signing another deal.

The media making it out like the Lakers must clinch a deal ASAP - that would be preferable from their end, *but* if LeBron's preference is to join the Lakers, I'm sure he'll give them a bit of time at least to see what they can do. Obviously the Lakers feel the urgency because they don't want him to change his mind.

"Wonder what they think of Ball? He's a circus, but I wonder if Pop would be intrigued?"

I think his Dad's talk unfairly alters the perception of Lonzo. The kid barely says a word, had a good rookie season and has a good skill-base to work off. He would be #1 on my list if I'm the Spurs and looking at the Lakers' assets that I want.

Reply #693589 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Unfortunately no one outside of San Antonio really cares about the Spurs so Leonard won't get treated too badly, but he deserves to be aggressively booed. I can't think of a more extreme case of a player disrespecting his team and the game than Leonard's over the past year. Disgusting behaviour, I feel for Spurs fans. I'm not one to jump to conclusions, but I am in this situation. He is clearly trying to force the Spurs hand while hiding away from media and not facing the music about his conduct

Reply #693596 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Last year

*Deserves to be booed all around the league

Reply #693597 | Report this post


Scopes44  
Last year

The lakers HAVE to trade a few of their young guns if you have a shot at Leonard who is in his mid twenties and with arguably a top 5 of all time in Lebron hopefully following. Otherwise the rebuild will take a few more years. And cost more later.
I personally hope Kuzma stays as Ball needs to get out on his own without the bright lights.
Lakers need this to work.
I assume Ingram is gone if the trade goes through.

Reply #693613 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

As much as I dislike Ball and really doubt his ability, the Spurs could turn him into one helluva player (even if Pop only has 2 or so years to work with him).

Personally, I think LBJ will stay with Cleveland.

He will maneuver a trade for Kemba Walker (as well as looking at making trades elsewhere) and will return with another strong Cavs lineup built around Lebron, Walker and Love.





Reply #693614 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

Saw articles from the NY Times writer suggesting he had heard:

"Kuzma, Ingram, Hart and two-first round picks for Kawhi ..."

Great deal for the Spurs IMO.

If true - it shows how desperate the Lakers are to get Kawhi to try and lure Lebron.

Surely the Lakers would be holding off until Lebron's decision tomorrow!

If he decides to opt-in, then the only way the Lakers can get Lebron is by a trade - and if they've given away to much to the Spurs before that, then they'll have very little chips to bargain with.

They'll need to get Kawhi through trades and LBJ through opt-out and FA.

Can't see them getting both through trades as they don't have the pieces (Cavs aren't trading Lebron for scraps - Cavs will simply send Lebron elsewhere).

Reply #693629 | Report this post


Greggo  
Last year

I feel Ingram is one of those 'superstar potential' guys that will never get there...

Spurs are gonna get hurt here either way

Reply #693630 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Macdub, I would think that's what the Spurs are asking for, not what the Lakers are offering? ESPN has the Lakers offering Ingram and a first round pick, which is a fair way away from that Times suggestion.

Greggo, the issue is that the Spurs are already hurt. If they can't keep Kawhi, it's about minimising the damage, not avoiding it entirely.

If they can snare a few extra picks from the Lakers, they might be able to use them to steal a decent young player with potential in exchange for Aldridge. Bobby Portis hasn't exactly had a brilliant run in Chicago but he can play, and would fit the age range of a rebuilding Spurs unit better than Aldridge.

Reply #693636 | Report this post


Duke Fan  
Last year

"the current Lakers roster was pretty woeful."

Not this season just past they weren't. They were inconsistent as young (and injury affected) teams can be, but they were in the hunt for a playoff berth in the Western Conference for a long time. They played well against the better teams and had at least a dozen games that were close losses that if they go the other way see them in the playoffs. They also had a few games where everything clicked and they were damn good to watch (CBF going to check if they ended up in front but they led the league in transition scoring for a good part of the season) They had patches where they could be woeful but it wasn't a woeful season.

Reply #693637 | Report this post


Duke Fan  
Last year

"I feel Ingram is one of those 'superstar potential' guys that will never get there"

I know my user names suggest bias....and I am haha. I strongly disagree. I think he's an Allstar in waiting. 16/8/6 were pretty good numbers last season and as he gets stronger will only get better. 6'9 with long arms and point guard handles. His shot mechanics are good and he's going to work that out and I'm sure he'll be great. He's the 1 guy I don't want to see traded but for obvious reasons the guy the Spurs will want

Reply #693639 | Report this post


Scopes44  
Last year

Watching espn clips on YouTube, there is already a lot of back channel conversations and you would have to think Lebrons management or extension of have already spoken to lakers about his plans to opt out. He can still re-sign with cavs but it allows other teams to guage what he wants to do.
Also apparently clippers are silently doing business under Jerry West to possibly get kawhi.
Sheesh this time of year is interesting.

Reply #693641 | Report this post


LV  
Last year

"Kuzma, Ingram, Hart and two-first round picks for Kawhi ..."

That would be nice indeed!

Unlikely though, you'd think?

Reply #693645 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

LA will be fine, even if they lose all those young guys.

Remember once LBJ is in LA every free agent will want to play there as it is a storied franchise. The complete opposite to Cleveland.

Reply #693649 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I'll grant that 'woeful' might be an exaggeration but there is an enormous gap between playing good enough basketball sometimes to get some close games, and being competitive in the playoffs. And then there is another big gap to beating GS. Nothing on the existing Lakers roster would fill me with confidence that simply by adding Lebron, they make it even to the Western Conference finals.

It will be interesting if the Lakers go all-in on landing Leonard, and then Lebron doesn't come anyway. That would be very satisfying.

Reply #693650 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Leonard+LBJ obviously. No chance if just one of those two.

Reply #693652 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

More interesting than the finals!

Lebron is waiting on the Lakers to get Kawhi to get a clearer picture on what he wants to do.

The Lakers are waiting on Lebron's decision to opt in or opt out to know wheth

Classic case of dominoe's but each are waiting for the other to see how and where the dominoe's are going to fall. (LBJ working to a tighter timeframe though so is going to be forced to make a move tomorrow).

In short; people will draw inferences from tomorrow's opt-in/opt-out decision, but the key point is that he could easily return to Cleveland under any possible scenario. The opt-out/opt-in decision only really gives a clearer picture for the other 29 teams.

IF he opts-in = trade-able to any team (subject of course to acceptable trades)

IF he opt-out = becomes a FA and as I understand it, only Lakers, Philly and Cavs have the cap space or Bird rights to sign him. i.e. the other 27 teams are cooked.

The only thing I can't get my head around (articles haven't mentioned it) - is whether he could simply opt-out, keep all his options open, and then if he did want a trade in a few weeks time, he could simply execute a sign and trade with the Cavs & any of the other 29 teams..if he can still do that in the situation, you'd think he simply opts-out tomorrow to give him the flexibility to get either a sign and trade or a FA move (and not limiting his options to one or the other).

Reply #693653 | Report this post


Duke Fan  
Last year

My biggest fear is that the Lakers throw everything to the Spurs. Then Lebron doesn't come. Then Leonard breaks down again and we're back to being shite.

Though it would certainly make all the Lakers haters happy. I've followed them since 1980 and not used to being a non factor for so many years. They need to start winning again, though the losing years don't seem to hurt the organisation financially

Reply #693655 | Report this post


Cram  
Last year

If Lebron opts out, can't he still just go with a sign-and-trade? Meaning all the other teams are still in contention

Reply #693658 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Anon #652, Duke Fan did suggest the current Lakers plus Lebron would contend, that's what I was responding to.

Macdub and Cram, I believe you're right that Lebron could opt out and then re-sign with the Cavs as part of a sign-and-trade. However, given the lack of trust between Lebron and Cavs ownership, it's a risky path. If he re-signs with the Cavs with a plan that they trade him to wherever he wants to go, they don't actually have to do it. There's obvious benefit to the Cavs in getting the pieces that would come in return for Lebron, but he's also not going to want to be traded to a team that's gutting itself of useful players in order to acquire him. Thus the general sense that opting in or re-signing with Cleveland likely results in him staying there.

It's also urgent for the Lakers because if Lebron opts in and they have to trade for him, they're giving away pieces that they can't use to secure Kawhi. Boston won't throw the same sort of package at the Spurs without being confident they can re-sign him in 2019, but they have a few assets they know they're not going to be able to keep anyway, and draft picks coming out their ears. Boston are viable contenders if LA don't cooperate.

I am probably too positive about the Spurs' chances of getting a decent return on Leonard because I really want them to. But it is conceivable that they get a package as good as Ingram, Kuzma and first round picks, and the Lakers might have to suck up that that's what it'll take.

Reply #693665 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"They need to start winning again"

Why?

lol @ the Duke/LA Lakers combo.

Reply #693666 | Report this post


Cram  
Last year

Sign and trades are different from "sign, then hope to force a trade". They're done with an explicit agreement.

The benefit to the team losing the star (in this case the Cavs) is usually getting SOMETHING for the loss, rather than nothing at all. It is usually (always?) heavily in favour of the team getting the star. I think from memory the Raptors did a sign and trade for Bosh to Miami for a couple of second rounders.

Reply #693668 | Report this post


AKA  
Last year

Any team with LeBron on it is a conference finals contender and if you're in the East, then your in Finals contention. You take LBJ out of this years Cavs team and they win 25, maybe 30 games.

Reply #693678 | Report this post


Duke Fan  
Last year

"lol @ the Duke/LA Lakers combo"

You can LOL all you like at winners buddy. Both my teams have done plenty of it since I've followed them (both for over 30 years)

Reply #693688 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last year

I saw a guy today wearing a Lonzo Ball BBB hoodie, embarrassing.

Reply #693693 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Murmurs of Kawhi for Kyrie.

Now that would be a great deal!

Kyrie also has just the one year remaining on his contract.

Reply #693698 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

IF you wear BBB gear you are either have no idea or doing it to troll. To troll is the only legitimate reason to wear it.

Reply #693699 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"You can LOL all you like at winners buddy. Both my teams have done plenty of it since I've followed them (both for over 30 years)"

You are a glory hunter. and yes I LOL at your comment "they need to start winning again" because this is what happens to your type. Another few years of mediocrity and your 30 years of interest in the Lakers will suddenly be over with. Bandwagoner.

Reply #693701 | Report this post


Duke Fan  
Last year

You have no clue anonymous. Any sporting team I start to follow I follow for life. Geez I support the Eels in the NRL.....a few years of mediocrity is nothing

Reply #693709 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

That's fine. But most have their interest wane because of losing. Credit for being long term.

Reply #693713 | Report this post


Duke Fan  
Last year

No offense taken. I'm an old dude so old school. All my sporting teams are for life. My comment about the Lakers needing to win again was more about the organisation itself being one that's used to being successful than a personal need

Reply #693918 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Lebron has opted out of his current contract. @Cram; Even if he opted in, not all 29 teams were in the running as Lebron routinely has a no-trade clause in his contract which enables him to control his destination (foolish not too). I think he also wouldnt do a sign and trade as he doesn't want his destination team having to give up any assets that would allow them to build around him (use those in trades for other aquisitions). The Lakers are his likely destination now, especially if you believe stories of him trying to recruit KD to the lakers too. The Lakers would be a good destination for him as I think Magic and Pelinka wouldn't be swayed by Lebrons group in signing players to deals that would cripple them into the future; e.g. JR and Tristan T contracts which have hindered Cleveland's options.

The Kawhi for Kyrie rumors are interesting. I dont see Boston giving up a young stud in Brown or Tatum for a potential 1 year rental of Kawhi, especially as his health is still an unknown. So a currently injured 1 year Kawhi for a currently injured 1 year Kyrie would be the best offer I see Boston offering. But having said that SA are unlikely to be interested unless Kyrie is willing to sign an extention.

Although Kawhi to Philly would be very interesting, if he doesnt stay they potentially lose too many young beneficial assets in a conference where their current team is already strong. But if they get Kawhi in a trade they still have max cap room to sign PG or even LBJ - I belive this to be correct.

Reply #693974 | Report this post


FM  
Last year

Any chance LeBron wants isiah Thomas on his team and pretraded him to where he is going?

Reply #693985 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Charon 46

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
Westside Basketball Association
PickStar - The best place to book sports stars
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



Invoicing clients? Stay productive with Punch, the insightful time tracker that earns you more.

Special offer: $30/month Pay $100 for lifetime access. Sign up now!

.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 1:40 pm, Mon 14 Oct 2019 | Posts: 795,069 | Last 7 days: 1,258