Anonymous
Last year

Perth cant win a Chamionship with White

The difference between Good Players and Champions is that champions step up when the game is on the line. White doesn't he just throws up more bricks. Hell Steindl is a better clutch shooter.

Topic #44462 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Last year

White wasn't the problem tonight. Kay was terrible down the stretch.

Reply #722613 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Troy will surely replace an underperforming import mid season just like he did this time last year. Oh...

Reply #722617 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Can we just have one official "massively overreact to your team's latest game" thread?

Reply #722618 | Report this post


Tom  
Last year

23 of 52 tells it all. Bogut non factor. Sydney sloppy first half.

Reply #722621 | Report this post


lukn4atitle  
Last year

As usual at finals time they will be WHITE hot !

Reply #722623 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Homicide, are you starting threads again?

Reply #722624 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last year

Huge overreaction. Perth will be fine.

They're 11-3.

Their bigger issues are more about allocation of minutes because they have depth (which is actually a good problem).

One of the things I've seen this year is that they look better with Norton out there than Martin.

Reply #722625 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

MACDUB, Norton had clearly Perth's worst +/- until recently, so that's not true over the whole season, but that is starting to improve. He's still in the bottom half of that list, and below Martin, but the trend is positive.

Reply #722626 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

+/- are just indicative, coaches should no better than that, if you're on with bench most times your +/- should not be as good as starters, especially if other coach running his starters against your bench.
Kay was horrible down the stretch, it can happen.

Reply #722628 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

"if you're on with bench most times your +/- should not be as good as starters"

That doesn't really make sense, teams often have their bench with better +/- than their starters. Brisbane, Adelaide, Illawarra and Sydney are all in that basket at the moment.

As for Norton, if you're clearly your teams worst +/- that usually suggests something. In his case I'd say it was a lot to do with a new PG trying to fit into a well-established system.

Main point is, for most of this year Perth haven't been better on the scoreboard with Norton on than Martin, but that has started to change with Norton finding a niche where he can help the team.

Reply #722632 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Great news!

Reply #722633 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

+/- is a very misleading indicator. Who the other four players on the court and how they perform often matters more than anything in your +/- count.

Reply #722640 | Report this post


robt  
Last year

I do agree with the critisms of the +/- stats but also concede that taken over a period of time, not just a game or two, the +/- is good. Shows the genral outcome(s) when player is on/off the court.

Thinking positively, looking at the +/- stat may even tell who (or whom???), on your team, play well together etc.

Reply #722649 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

Exactly. When you're clearly the worst for your team in a season you can't really blame others! Alternatively, if you're clearly the best for your team then it's hard for others to take credit. It's in the middle that it gets murkier.

It is a crucial stat for coaches though, if you've got good players who are negatively impacting the scoreboard when they're on the floor over a number of games, you've got to dig deeper and find out why and adjust offences/defences/combinations etc depending on what you find.

Reply #722650 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Taking Clint off when he was red hot was a terrible coaching decisin

Reply #722652 | Report this post


Hogwash  
Last year

I like White but I thought Perth would be better if they went for a 3 man who can play a bit of 4 when Kay slides over to the 5.
Steindl has proved he is more than capable of being back up 2 and can play 3. Wagstaff has taken a step back this season so another forward would be ideal.

Reply #722657 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last year

The 2 teams who supposedly can't win a title with an import who is white are currently #1 an #2 on the ladder so I don't think it's panic stations for either of them.

Reply #722660 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I hate how much people over react to one game lol.

White has been good all year, Perth has been the best team all year, Kings have been improving and getting better all year, Wear has been trash all year, Bogut has been good all year.

After last night people think White sucks, Perth aren't contenders, Kings are locks for the championship, Wear is an MVP contender, Bogut sucks.

NBL fans always seem to overreact to one or two games ffs

Reply #722676 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

We've lost to Sydney twice now, but I don't really see them as a threat to win it all.

First match up Cats were undermanned, and last night Sydney couldn't miss down the stretch. Perth had 18 more FGAs in the game. It's a disappointing loss but no need to overreact.

I still think Perth & Melbourne will be the finals match up when it's all finished. Home court will be vital.

Reply #722700 | Report this post


AD  
Last year

FMD I will punch the next person who says "we're 11 and 3"
We're 1 & 2 against the only teams that matter, and by rights it should 0 & 3.

So the the OP is partially correct, we can't win a ring if we can't beat Sydney or Melbourne.

And whilst clearly he isn't the worst player, I think the point is that he's the most easily replaced.

The alternative is that Wagstaff retires, and is replaced by an import.
That would be a close run thing. By my count, he needs to play 21 games to reach 300, and leaving the bare minimum 7 to qualify an import. Plus I don't know if the Wildcats would deprive him of a shot at another ring.

Be interesting to see what happens.
White is clearly a better outside shooter than JP, but on the whole I preferred JP's intensity,
I actually think we look better when Hire or Stiendl as at the 3. But thats just a personal preference.

Reply #722708 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Win a flag"
"I will punch the next person who says ....."
When bogan WA footy fans invade a basketball forum.
Bottom line the Cats are 11-3.

Reply #722714 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

AD, you are why people hate Perth.

Reply #722718 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

We're 11-3.

Come at me bro.

Reply #722722 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

God people are so stupid. Do you think if we were 3-11 wed be having this discussion> No it is only relevent because we are in a good spot to challeneg for a championship - that we wont win while White is our only import beside Cotton. Hes a crab - Tokoto was better - hell Jarron Johnson was better. Just wait and see if we persist with White this will be a wasted season.

Reply #722725 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Jaron Johnson was a spud. Tokoto can't shoot.

White hasn't lit it up, but he manages to get his 18 a game while playing solid defence. He's a good fit in the locker room too from all reports.

Some people are never happy.

Reply #722733 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

+/- is way over rated. It fails to take into account what the oppo does in any way. It's simply a waste of time IMO

Reply #722734 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

yes any stat that says Pineau did more in 8 minutes than Cotton did in his 35 is utter shit

Reply #722735 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Yes thats the point. We all know Pineau can't do that. Extrapolate those numbers and he would be playing in the NBA. You only have to look at the Kilsyth SEABL numbers to know he can;t do it.

Reply #722737 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Some people are never happy."

Whats happiness got to do with anything? After what they have spent this year, if they dont win a championship it will be a waste and they wont win one when they cant beat Melbourne or Sydney.

"Bottom line the Cats are 11-3."
Bottom line is that if you think that is meaningful you have less brains than a Canary

Reply #722746 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

11-3 for at least another 42 hours

Reply #722752 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"yes any stat that says Pineau did more in 8 minutes than Cotton did in his 35 is utter shit"

That comment kinda shows you have no idea what +- is about.

Reply #722760 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Facebook Cat Chat is leaking! Haha

Reply #722761 | Report this post


Hogwash  
Last year

5 straight now on the road it gets tougher now but Perth will finish with 6 of 9 on the road.

White is good not great but I still think a 3/4 import would've been better.

Reply #722768 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Last year

it seems you gotta play against 8 , while you only got 5 on the court.

Reply #722769 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last year

Geezuz, I'm embarrassed to be a Cats fan with some of the ridiculous comments coming out in this forum. White did his job, in fact Cats did a great job, but made bonehead mistakes right when it mattered, and decided the game was won earlier than it was.

Norton and Cotton making retarded fouls when Kings were in the bonus, yep, lop their heads off. Fuck sake.

White's job is to put up his solid numbers which he has done for the most part, Cotton is there to win us games. Cotton has won multiple games for us off his own back all season, he's not going to do it every single game.

Cats are fine, the league is better than it ever has been, and the competition has risen another level (in the top bracket of teams anyway).

Reply #722937 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Geezuz, I'm embarrassed to be a Cats fan with some of the ridiculous comments coming out in this forum."

Why do you assume that the stupid comments about Perth only come from Cats fans?

Reply #722938 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last year

"Why do you assume that the stupid comments about Perth only come from Cats fans?"

I don't, I just ignore the stupid ones from non Cats fans.

Reply #722939 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

My point is that I don't think its possible to tell. They are by far the most scrutinised team here so I don't always assume that any comments about them come from a supporter.

Reply #722940 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last year

My troll detector is high, I usually can tell the Cats supporters from the haters.

Reply #722946 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

That huge choke job could cost Perth top spot. Lose tonight and they have the same amount of losses as Sydney and the Kings have the tie breaker

Reply #722949 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

So is OP a Cats fan?

Reply #722950 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"Lose tonight and they have the same amount of losses as Sydney and the Kings have the tie breaker"

Haven't they changed the tie-breaker rules? Also, no they don't.

Reply #722954 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last year

"So is OP a Cats fan?"

My comments weren't based OP, but I'll take a crack and say it's NOT a Cats supporter.

Reply #722955 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

That huge choke job could cost Perth top spot. Lose tonight and they have the same amount of losses as Sydney and the Kings have the tie breaker
Even if head-to-head was still the tiebreaker, the two teams have only played twice so if Perth won the next two matchups by a combined total of more than eight, they'd have the tiebreaker.

But head-to-head isn't the tiebreaker anymore, so it's irrelevant anyway.

Reply #722963 | Report this post


AD  
Last year

I'll be honest, White is a fucking frustrating player to watch. His percentage is piss poor, because some of the shots he puts up are just shit, and unbelievably so. You can hear 13,000 people groan even as it leaves his hand. I can't recall anybody so frustrating.

Don't misunderstand me, I'd rather be kicked in the balls than watch Hire/Vague/Wagstaff try to shoot threes, but White will hit a brilliant shot, nothing but net, and then the next throw up absolute shite.

As I said at the time, we only won the last encounter because CG got injured (and lets be honest some serendipitous foul calls) so tonight's game will be telling. Lose, and we are realistically 0:4 against top teams.

As for not being happy, well yes, shock, I'm not happy when my team loses. Especially at home, especially when they piss away a big lead, and especially against a numpty like Gaze.

I'd normally be a bit more sanguine about tonight's game, being away, but after losing on Friday, I am hoping for redemption

Reply #722979 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"I can't recall anybody so frustrating."

He is better than Tokoto, who refused to shoot.

Reply #722980 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Very true

Reply #723086 | Report this post


Hogwash  
Last year

Gaze a numpty.
AD/Dazz I totally agree with you on that one.

Reply #723089 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

What's White on the outside and smells like a Spud?
Someone want to tell me again how great he is and how my comments are an embarassment?

Reply #723108 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Embarrassing perfromances against the Kings and Melbourne. His job should be on the line

Reply #723161 | Report this post


AD  
Last year

I would say that the underlying premise is correct.
Wildcats won't win a championship as things stand. Whether replacing white is the panacea, is I suppose up for debate.

Reply #723345 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Why is there another Red army panic thread? we already have one!

Reply #723368 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last year

Thread title

"Perth cant win a Chamionship with White"

Actually, no nne can ”win a Chamionship with any team.” No team can “cant” anything either.

Red Army so panicky they've lost their last remnants of written communication.


Reply #723387 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

*nne*

Yeah cool story bro.

Reply #723395 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

not only the red army struggling with written communication. people in nne houses shouldn't throw stonnes.

Reply #723397 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

So Adelaide and Brisbane replace imports and everyones like "bout time why didnt they do it sooner" - everyone agrees NZ need to act and Sydney need to replace Wear - But Perth fans suggest replacing an under-performing import and its "Red Army are panicking"
eith way they might as well get rid of white - they dont need him to make the finals and continue the streak - and they cant win a championship with him

Reply #723500 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Come on, please, somebody defend this crab again.

At this rate, we might as well just sack him, save the money, and promote Steindl into the starting 5.

Reply #724371 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

I still don't think he should be sacked. Yeah he's had a few average games in a row, but the whole team has been garbage lately and i think we can cut a guy some slack for a form slump. Overall this year he has still been solid and an upgrade on Tokoto. No he hasn't been on a Prather/Patterson/Conger/Childress level, but he's been a solid import. It can be a big risk replacing someonewho fits in pretty well. Also doesn't send a great message to future imports "even if you are playing pretty good, unless you are an MVP contender you will get sacked".

I still think he is good enough to keep for now. A 3rd import is probably due, and would help take some of the load and pressure off White and guys like Cotton/Kay etc.

Reply #724376 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

He's a cheap import as he lost his athleticism after injury. Well said OP. #cheapout

Reply #724378 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

**Updated**
Total points scored by @PerthWildcats players in 4th quarters in past 5 games combined: (92 points)

29 B Cotton
18 N Kay
14 M Norton
10 D Martin
6 C Steindl
4 J Wagstaff
4 T Jervis
3 R Vague
2 A Brandt
2 W Swaka Lo Buluk
0 G Hire
0 TERRICO WHITE

#NBL19 https://t.co/AEgea6D3jb

Reply #724544 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Well that's damning.

Reply #724548 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

When you're an import in a starting role and playing worse in fourth quarters than a guy who's still high-school aged, you're in trouble.

And when you're signed as a perimeter shooter, and you're shooting 27% from three, you're in trouble.

He is shooting 50% from two, but there's an 85% outlier screwing with the results, none of his other games were better than about 35%.

Reply #724549 | Report this post


Melbourne Boy  
Last year

Alot of his poor play has to go towards Gleeson, absolutely everything is run for Cotton, White is forced to create all of his own scores. Theres a trend of second imports struggling/complaining under Gleeson all having the same issue.

Reply #724551 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Yeah, Ennis and Prather really struggled.

Reply #724816 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

Very damming indeed

Reply #724822 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

Yeah, Ennis and Prather really struggled.
When were either of them second imports?

Reply #724825 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

#724822 get your own nickname, plus you can't even spell.

Reply #724831 | Report this post


JR  
Last year

They need a third import, period. The jury is out on whether they can win even if they get a stud third import. If they stand pat and make no moves they definitely don't win championship and even the playoffs is questionable.
It does seem like they are trying to save $ or they would’ve pulled the trigger on it already.

Reply #724838 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

They need a top import small forward. Think poor mans Ennis/Prather.
Then bring in a combo guard like a poor mans Rotnei Clarke who can shoot

Reply #724839 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Beal and Ennis won a Championship
Beal and Daniels did not
Beal and Prather won a Championship
Cotton and Prather and McKay won a championship
Cotton Tokoto and Cooked did not

Nothing to do with coaches inability to run plays for more than one player, everything to do with substandard imports.

Reply #724841 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

"They need a top import small forward. Think poor mans Ennis/Prather.
Then bring in a combo guard like a poor mans Rotnei Clarke who can shoot"

This

Reply #724842 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last year

If they stand pat and make no moves they definitely don't win championship and even the playoffs is questionable.
If they win their remaining games against Cairns and beat Illawarra at home, they're in. They don't need to win in Illawarra, or beat any of the other teams at all.

They'll make the playoffs.

Reply #724843 | Report this post


paul  
Last year

No place for facts here KR! Championship winning small forwards in the past eight years:

Abercrombie
Ennis
Prather

Those are three very high-level players. I think the Wildcats need either White contributing much more or a better player in that spot, they need good defence, rebounding and the ability to finish plays at SF.

Teams with three imports are currently sitting 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th, teams with two imports are sitting 1st, 2nd and 4th. It's not a case of needing three imports, just the right players to help you to win.

Reply #724850 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Prather only played the GF series otherwise was injured for most season with Melbourne. Injured again in Russia it seems as never plays. Normally the most solid teams win which is where Perth might struggle if flopstaff and basher hire don't find some form.

Reply #724853 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Prather has played in the last three championship teams.

Reply #724927 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

He was there on the big day for Melbourne, but missed most season, Felix and Moller carried the three spot. Felix retired I believe but would've been a good fit for some teams, Moller so under used at Melbourne.

Reply #724935 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Prather played 23 games last season and averaged 19.6ppg and 7.2rpg in the grand final series.

Reply #724951 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

23 out of 35 Melbourne played, started 19 and got injured early when he did his elbow. So I'll settle for 50% as he was either injured or playing limited minutes when coming back from injury, that’s including all finals.

Reply #724967 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last year

They struggled until Felix arrived who helped them to top spot and therefore home court advantage during the finals. I feel it was a fortunate injury for United.

Reply #724968 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

Gees good to see the Christmas Booze is still flowing - So your argument against Perth needing to make a gutsy move and get a good SF is that Melbourne had to do it not once but twice in the same season to win a chip.

Reply #725048 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last year

People are overlooking in the inherent limitations contained within the OP. - Obviously if the cats had Pledger, Barlow, Moller, and McCarron - instead of Jervis, Hire, Vague, and Steindl, then things would be different. But they don't - Same if they could swap Wagstaff for someone like Ben Simmons - different - buts its assumed they are otherwise got the saame squad.

Reply #725049 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Pug 29

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
PickStar - The best place to book sports stars
Westside Basketball Association
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



Invoicing clients? Stay productive with Punch, the insightful time tracker that earns you more.

Special offer: $30/month Pay $100 for lifetime access. Sign up now!

.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 5:19 am, Wed 20 Mar 2019 | Posts: 765,565 | Last 7 days: 1,189