GuellaT
Last month

MCK V the rest of SCM

So McKinnon won SCM without barely breaking a sweat. Where to next for this group? By all reports SCM will only be weaker next year. How will they stay motivated?

Topic #45803 | Report this topic


GuellaT  
Last month

BTW well done. I'm not having a go at them just curious

Reply #758381 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

One of two things will happen, they go to NBL 1 with this roster and give it a go, remembering the bench torched Keilor without the starting 5 playing at all late in the season or secondly they stay in SCM and lose Tomada, Stith and Williams to NBL 1 teams as all were paid this season.

Reply #758382 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

All those 3 are locked in for next year. Another big name NBL1 player is set to join them.

I thought NBL1 was not taking any new teams?

Reply #758386 | Report this post


Anon  
Last month

NBL1 aren't taking any new teams

Reply #758398 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

when is the plan for the NBL1 to take new teams and who would be most likely?

Reply #758406 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Mt Gambier have been asked to apply

Reply #758421 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

Mt Gambier will be the only new team in NBL1 if all the boxes are ticked in the coming month but this should happen.

NBL 1 would only consider new teams from Melbourne in major growth corridors or areas where no representation current exists.

So another team from the eastern or southern suburbs won't be a look in however a team in the major growth corridors with South East/North West would be far more likely, i know they'd love another viable team from the West/North however none of the key clubs are ready at the moment.

Outside of Melbourne they would of course love a couple of the larger country centers involved if they can show a long term plan of viability and ability to spend money on getting/retaining players, which at this stage none have really the desire to try and step up.

Reply #758422 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The better Australian born players from other Big V Mens Champ teams will find their way into NBL1 next season. This will further weaken the competition. If Mckinnon retain all their players and as stated, add to their list it, will be a pretty dull coming season for the current Mckinnon bench players. They averaged approx. 15 mins per game this season. I can't see them hanging around for minimal playing time next year. These guys could be getting 30 minutes or more per game at other Mens Champ programs. They have won a championship so it will be hard for Mckinnon to keep this group together. Winning in Big V Mens Champ is not exactly the "holy grail" anymore.

Reply #758426 | Report this post


PersonalFoul  
Last month

I think they inspire other teams to lift their game.

State Champ is the holy grail if you're Whittlesea, Altona etc it is the Holy Grail if you're Blackburn to win it all.

They walked the season, and this is has happened before. NBL1 depsite a lot of knockers this year is a great product for players, coaches & spectators and there will be a rush to be involved. But a top level local state league is still needed in a basketball hungry and competitive landscape in Vicotria.

Reply #758427 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

From what I'm hearing lots of State Champ players are trying to push to NBL 1.

Sad to say but, State Champ will definitely be significantly weaker next year.

Reply #758428 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Like who ?
Give some names.

Reply #758429 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

^ I'll start with two names - Dillon Stith and Adrian Tomada.

Reply #758430 | Report this post


anonymous  
Last month

there are all sorts of rumours floating around of teams pulling out of NBL1.

Hobart definitely out - are they being replaced by another Tas team?
CoE apparently out - is this true?

Heard Ringwood may pull the pin with a number of retirements and financial issues.
Are Sabres a lock to be in NBL1 again?

SCM was in a bit of a holding pattern this year, but will definitely drop off next year.

Surely it makes sense to take the top 3-4 clubs into NBL1 and then merge SCM with D1.

I know there will be people saying that the SCM teams won't be competitive in NBL1 etc. But take McKinnon or Hume City, both would be competitive with the rosters they had this season. Add one or 2 players and they will be highly competitive.

We saw how quickly Frankston turned things around in the mens side this year.

Reply #758431 | Report this post


anonymous  
Last month

Aussie SCM players that will get a look at NBL1 -
Adrian Tomada
Jake Martin
Jake Heath
BJ Simmons
Mackuei Puondak
Matthew Donlan
Jack Barry
Shayan Mahboobi
Luke sist
Daniel Foster
Mitchell Riggs

So take these players out and maybe couple of others, then SCM quality drops off

Reply #758432 | Report this post


Red 68  
Last month

Not all teams have the $$$$ that Frankston spent this year.

Reply #758433 | Report this post


anonymous  
Last month

I'm petty sure Hume, Keilor, Casey, Hawthorn, McKinnon, and possibly Werribee (depending on which club was given option to move up) would have $ to put together a competitive roster.

McKinnon already had one
Hume probably 1 player away from being highly competitive
Keilor looks to have spent some $ already but got it wrong
Hawthorn have $
Casey and Werribee need to add quite a bit to roster but not impossible

Reply #758434 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Adrian Tomada
Matthew Donlan
Jake Heath

The only Aussie players that should be looked at for nbl1 teams.

Dillion Stith
Corey Standefer
David Sheppard
Raheem Lemons
David Shepard
Eric Williams

The imports of SCM that warrant a look from nbl1 teams.

This coming from someone that played against all of those players 3 times each this season. By far the best Aussies and imports in the league this season.

Reply #758441 | Report this post


Pud93  
Last month

Williams and Standerfer don't play defense. I'd add Mccinnes from Casey and Riggs from Chelsea as Aussies that would fit into NBL1.

Reply #758442 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Anon - how do you know Mt Gambier have been asked to apply? I cant find anything
from the club or BV suggesting that?

Reality - how do you know that Mt Gambier will be in NBL1 next year. Again havent
seen an mention or suggestion of this anywhere.

I thought that there was a media release from NBL1 saying no new teams next year. I'm confused

Reply #758451 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

Alot comes down to money.

Hence some clubs might be talking about dropping back to SCM but the move up just isn't the extra costs for better players/depth but also travel etc.

The cost to play in NBL1 is significantly more than SCM so teams like DV/Eltham/Ringwood etc have to spend to be competitive so if you loose a few local core players then you'll need to recruit which is expensive when competing against clubs with deeper pockets or perhaps a history of spending money.

Reply #758452 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Mitch Riggs has signed with Casey

Reply #758465 | Report this post


Rabbit  
Last month

Heath can't play at NBL1 level.

Reply #758471 | Report this post


Anon  
Last month

If we are talking about Aussie players that would start and be high scoring in NBL1 then there may only be handful from SCM.

But if u are looking at solid role players and young developing players then there are a lot.

Please don't be making out that nbl1 is some super league and way more above SCM.

McKinnon and Hume would have been at least mid table this year.

A lot of the nbl1 teams had good starting 5 but dropped very quickly after that.

Reply #758493 | Report this post


Anon  
Last month

lol couldn't see Riggs leaving Chelsea as his connections with the club and family to high and no one would be signing with anyone yet. I heard Stith to Nunawading and Williams to Ringwood, also Casey would want younger legs right now.

Reply #758499 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

NBL 1 is a great product. But as the talent pool gravitates towards that league extra money won't. So if Stith goes to Nunnawading as the expert above predicts they lose an import or a Simon Conn type player. Stith is a full time pro and he'll want coaching jobs and a car. $$$. So now there is a very good player and maybe a high level VJBL coach looking for a new job.

These clubs derive their income from juniors. It comes with the justification of a "pathway". The pathway that most of these clubs provide is not for their own juniors if they play seniors at nbl 1 and they have a junior program that plays Met 1.

Reply #758504 | Report this post


Hard3n  
Last month

I heard Stith to Knox, Lemons to Eltham, Williams to Tigers, and Tomada to Kilsyth.

All good upgrades from last season

Reply #758510 | Report this post


Anon  
Last month

all rumours and either way good luck to all, but rumours are great to keep the interest so anyone got anything else, all fun lets just go with it

Reply #758513 | Report this post


anonymous  
Last month

Obviously a lot of the above moves are rumours but they are all valid.

As I have listed before, the below Aussie players could make a NBL1 roster and fulfil a solid role:
Adrian Tomada
Jake Martin
Jake Heath
BJ Simmons
Mackuei Puondak
Matthew Donlan
Jack Barry
Shayan Mahboobi
Luke Sist
Daniel Foster
Mitchell Riggs

The following imports could also play NBL1:
- Stith
- Williams
- Lemons
- Anderson
- Kulas
- Coleman
- Shabazz

So if there was anywhere near this player movement, what would it leave SCM like?

And before we get the people saying none of the above could play NBL1, this is a small list of players that average 10+ppg in NBL1 this year:
Keli Leaupepe
Costas Hronopoulos
Deng Puoch
Jacob Richards
Isaiah Lee
Sean Macdonald
Chris Patton
Matthiang Muo
Joshua Fox
Ma'alo Hicks
Deng Acuoth
Hunter Clarke
Kingsley Box
Andrew Steel


Reply #758514 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

If all of those players went to nbl1 there would be an equivalent number of players nbl 1 players looking for a new team. If all of those imports left big v they would all be replaced by the exact same quality of import.

Reply #758515 | Report this post


anonymous  
Last month

I get the import comment and agree that a similar quality level of imports will be in SCM (assuming clubs want to spend the same $)

The aussie contingent is not going to be a 1:1.

Teams will be looking to upgrade.

A SCM player will displace a NBL1 player on roster. the displaced player has a couple options. Move down rotation, look for other NBL1 team, or move leagues.

It may be a bit of a snowball effect, but at the end of the day the lesser skilled player is likely to end up in SCM.

This doesn't take long to have a huge impact.

Take McKinnon
If you take out Tomada and replace him with an average PG from NBL1 bench
Take out Stith and replace him with a import not quite as talented (very hard to get a player with all the tools he has)
Replace Williams with a like-for-like import

This new McKinnon team is now middle of the pack.

Reply #758517 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

Its simple that SCM will progressivly get weaker as the NBL1 becomes more established particulary as the teams that joined from Big V understand the investments required to compete at the new level.

This will also put pressure on the poorer performing old SEABL teams and like Frankston did this year teams will be forced to step up or drop down (Sandy!)

Reply #758534 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

This is what very few people understand. There are clubs that can't spend anymore money. If it costs more to compete and stay in nbl1 then nbl1 will lose. Knox left seabl..... Too expensive. Sandy are begging for funding for new courts. They can't spend anymore. If it becomes a race to the top and that's achieved by sucking up the best imports and Aussies from big v then it will fail. If it becomes national. More money for travel and expenses and half your bench that play for free can't take time off work.

Big V will be fine especially if it becomes a true pathway. Nbl 1 is not. It will become a stepping stone for nbl and will attract national talent. If my association decides its more important to fund a program for other associations kids then my board will soon be gone.

Reply #758564 | Report this post


PersonalFoul  
Last month

Maybe NBL1 should be franchises rather than attached to the clubs themselves.

Big V will survive. Local Teams with Local Guys, just look at even youth league finals and some of the crowds

LONG LIVE State Champ!

Reply #758628 | Report this post


Reality  
Last month

@Anoin Big V will be a local little state comp which is fine.

NBL1 wil be the main comp.pathway and yes Big V might be a stepping stone to that level for kids coming out of Youth league but not quite ready for NBL1 or who choose court time over sitting on an NBL1 bench.

In the end no association can produce enough kids to fill a competitive SCM/NBL1 roster so clubs will always recruit and it shouldn't matter where the player developed as a junior as to where they play senior basketball.

Money as in all senior sports in key so its about being elite and thus only the bigges/best and smartly managed will compete at the top for extended periods of time.

Reply #758632 | Report this post


Jetta  
Last month

What will SCM look like next year? On another thread I read there is like 7 or 8 teams trying to go up from D1M.

You cant have one of the mens league with 8 teams and then D1 and D2 having 13 each.

How many will get the nod to go up?

Reply #758653 | Report this post


anonymous  
Last month

Best case scenario is the top 3-4 from SCM go to NBL1

Combine the remaining SCM and D1. This will make for most competitive leagues.

If 4-5 teams come up from D1 and still same teams in SCM there will be an even bigger divide than this year

Reply #758664 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

^Agree. Highly doubt top 3-4 move up though.

Reply #758667 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

No teams will go up to NBL1 for 2020.

I love how the SCW and the whole women's side of the sport is totally disregarded... you realise that NBL1 is Men & Women double headers every night.

How did McKinnon women go? 10 & 8, finished 5th, so combine with the men 32 & 10
Hume City 30 & 12 combined
Casey 20 & 22 combined
Keilor 27 & 15 combined
Werribee 23 & 19 combined
and not mentioning Sunbury SCW 15 & 3 or Hawthorn SCM 17 & 7.
And that is only last year, what about the year before or before that? Sure you can make a case after a single season, but a large sample size of the whole association needs to looked at.

And your roster isn't the only criteria on making the move to NBL1, surely there are more things to it than players and money. If you ignore the crowd at the final, do they get more than 100 people to a regular season game? does the stand seat more than 200?

Reply #758673 | Report this post


anonymous  
Last month

All good points.

I agree a single season isn't a good sample size but it may indicate the ability of a team/club to recruit/improve their team in a short timeframe.

The last season is the most relevant of how competitive a team is going to be (although they may also lose 2 players and drop dramatically)

TBH, the most accurate way is probably for a panel to assess each and every element of the submission.

Taking on court performance, the factors that could be looked at:
- past season performance
- past 5 year performance
- age of roster - likely retirements
- talent of players coming thru u18/YL
- stability of coaches/administrators
- proposed roster

When looking at crowd numbers, the finals crowd may be larger and not sustainable but does indicate what the capacity could be. Target numbers etc.

I'm not sure the statement that no teams will go up to NBL1 in 2020 will end up being accurate. With teams already pulled out, and talk of more to come, Basketball Victoria may revisit this previous correspondence

Reply #758679 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The top 4 in Div 1 would be competitive with 6 out of 9 State Champ sides. If they added a decent second import each they would be in the mix for finals

Reply #758711 | Report this post


Hard3n  
Last month

Chelsea dominated Div 1 the season before. Go up to SCM and add second import and finish 7th on the ladder out of 9 teams....

But the top 4 teams this year in Div 1 would be in finals if they add second import?

Reply #758713 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

'In the mix'

Reply #758714 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Chelsea lost to McKinnon by 2, beat Hawthorn ,Hume and Casey who were in finals. Lost a few games when both imports weren't playing, so weren’t far away. I thought the standard of SCM was very good.

Reply #758717 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Reality check!!!
In Men's D1, Blackburn lost from 4 regular season games over two years. They were promoted to Men’s Champ and won 5 games in their first season in 2018 with the same group of players. There is a big difference in the standard and depth of teams.

Reply #758728 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

^ that was before NBL1 significantly reduced the talent in SCM.

SCM will be even worse next year

Reply #758738 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Do y'all realise that the 2018 SCM grand finalists finished second and third last in NBL1 Men this year??

I would suggest that the jump from 2018 BigV to 2019 NBL1 was smaller than it would be from 2019 BigV into 2020 NBL1.

Reply #758746 | Report this post


Anon  
Last month

only teams that make GF should be allowed the right to go up, NBL1 is not changing their roster so if Warrandyte & Sunbury go up then they earnt the right, what right would Shep, Keys or Westernport have to go up, those teams have done nothing to suggest they should go up in CM. Promotion is because you were good enough to go all the way, not because you think youre good enough, talk is cheap! Vikings & Thunder earnt the right and are more than ok

Reply #758750 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Shep should go up. They have played D1 finals every year for the last 5 years. Including a GF last year.

They used to be one of the strongest teams in State Champ and even won it s few times. They'll be right.

Agree Westernport and Keysborough shouldn’t go up.

Reply #758802 | Report this post


Hard3n  
Last month

Lemons and Stith are a lock for NBL1 next season.

Reply #758957 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

With who?

Reply #758968 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

I can confirm the news from within the Pioneers organisation that they have been asked to apply for entry into NBL1. Final decision sometime in September.

Seems strange they target a team which is not even the best team in the state!!

Reply #759163 | Report this post




 

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