LV
Last month

NBL fixture imbalance

There's now 9 teams in the NBL with a 28 game season.

Previously every team played every other team 4 times. Now, each team plays 4 opponents 4 times, with 3 games against the remaining 4 opponents.

For example, NZ plays the following teams only 3 times: Perth, Sydney, United, Cairns.

Interestingly, they are 2-6 but 16 of their final 20 games will be against teams other than Perth, Sydney and United. They're about to have a 12 game stretch without playing any of them.

Has anyone bothered working out who everyone plays 3 and 4 times?

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Anonymous  
Last month

You mean do United get to play the new SEM Phoenix and Cairns (last years bottom team) four times, including the final round double header where they dont leave Melbourne, while Perth plays the other three top four teams from last season four times? No, no one has done the analysis on that...

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LV  
Last month

United and Perth play 4 times.

In addition,

United plays Sydney, SEM and Cairns

Perth plays Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide

So far, SEM looks better than Brisbane....

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Anonymous  
Last month

Here comes the LV spin.

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Anonymous  
Last month

SEM have played one game interstate so far and don't play another until the last day of November.

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Anonymous  
Last month

I'm pretty sure United also had a home double header in the final round of last season too.

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Anonymous  
Last month

The NBA schedule isn't balanced either.

I think NBL teams will manage.

Reply #774240 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

List of teams who each team plays 4 times:

Adelaide- NZ, Perth, SEM, Cairns

Brisbane- NZ, Perth, Cairns, Illawarra

Cairns- United, Brisbane, Adelaide, Illawarra

Illawarra- NZ, Sydney, Cairns, Brisbane

NZ- SEM, Illawarra, Adelaide, Brisbane.

Perth - United, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide.

SEM- United, NZ, Sydney, Adelaide

Sydney- Perth, United, SEM, Illawarra

United- Perth, Sydney, SEM, Cairns.

Reply #774242 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

So Perth play teams that finished 2 thru 5 four times, while Sydney and Melbourne play teams the that second last and last respectively, plus the new team.

Plus Melbourne's home double header to end the season.

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Anonymous  
Last month

"Plus Melbourne's home double header to end the season."

Why is that relevant?

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Anonymous  
Last month

Because its a massive advantage, and one no other club is afforded.

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LV  
Last month

United has an away derby vs SEM to finish, SEM home game

SEM have beaten Brisbane by 20, NZ by 25 and Adelaide by 10, hence why they're $1.20 to finish top 4 with TAB Sportsbet.

But yeah you're right, playing SEM 4 times means you got a cruisy fixture!

Reply #774247 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

One thing I forgot to mention above with the fixture analysis. I just went through United's fixture again.

It's such a farce, United got 16 home games and 12 away games this season! Dodgy as....

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Anonymous  
Last month

That info wasn't known when the fixture was put together. SEM have defied expectations.

Reply #774249 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

You're an idiot LV. You know exactly why it's an advantage.

Melbourne just played a double header, playing SEM and Sydney. Didn't leave Melbourne. No other club gets that advantage twice a season while getting to play the team that won 6 games four times this season.

Starts a thread about imbalance, but doesn't want to talk about imbalance...

Reply #774250 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"Because its a massive advantage, and one no other club is afforded."

It's an advantage to play the same number of games as every other club across the season? Or is it an advantage to play the same number of home games as every other club?

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Anonymous  
Last month

Nice strawman.

Reply #774252 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

It just means United and SEM both have 12 true home games, 12 true away games and 4 neutral games.

Every other team has 14 true home games and 14 true away games.

There is a slight travel advantage Of course- United and SEM are the only two teams with another team in their own city. And Melbourne is centrally located.

Reply #774253 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

And of course the NBL was going to schedule 4 derbies!

It doesn't matter how good SEM or United are, they will play as many times as possible every season for the foreseeable future, just like Sixers/Thunder and Stars/Renegades in the BBL.

If SEM and United both finish top 4, then next season I'm guessing you won't be talking about how unfair this is

Reply #774254 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"There is a slight travel advantage Of course- United and SEM are the only two teams with another team in their own city"

Its the third season in a row that Melbourne have had a home double header in the last round of the season. How many of the other clubs have not had to travel for a double header in the final round? Any guesses?

Reply #774255 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"And of course the NBL was going to schedule 4 derbies!"

No shit! Why do you keep talking about SEM but not Cairns?

Reply #774256 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Playing away games at home is a natural advantage if you're someone like Richmond/Collingwood.

I see this closer to a Crows/Port showdown scenario where realistically anyone can win, they are always danger games. What do you know - SEM won that first game.

Mel/SEM should always have 4 games a season to the extent that anyone ever players 4 games against each other.

With a 10 team league, we'd have 28 games = each team 3 games except for rival 4 games; or each team 4 times = 36 games

Reply #774257 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

[Its the third season in a row that Melbourne have had a home double header in the last round of the season].

Again, it's not a home double header.

It's a weekend when United doesn't have to travel. But that will always happen a lot, for both United and SEM.

Last season there were FIBA qualifiers immediately following the regular season. EVery team who travelled in the last round had two weeks at home before their first playoff game. So it was hardly a meaningful advantage for United.



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Anonymous  
Last month

"What do you know - SEM won that first game."

I wonder if LV will acknowledge that SEM won against a United team missing Prather and Barlow (and someone else?), or if he just reserves that for his Wildcats analysis?

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Anonymous  
Last month

"Again, it's not a home double header.

It's a weekend when United doesn't have to travel."

Wow, splitting hairs much?

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Anonymous  
Last month

"For example, NZ plays the following teams only 3 times: Perth, Sydney, United, Cairns.

Interestingly, they are 2-6 but 16 of their final 20 games will be against teams other than Perth, Sydney and United. They're about to have a 12 game stretch without playing any of them."

LV, why did you mention this in your OP but then not want to hear about other clubs that are favoured by the imbalance?

Reply #774262 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Last month

I think it's fair to say most people felt adding a new team and not adding 4 extra games per team was wrong. NBL's reasoning was that they didn't want to extend the season to compete with AFL, affecting finals' crowds.

Melbourne getting 4 extra games where they don't have to travel is just a by-product of NBL wanting to maximise 'local derbies', with their bigger crowds. AFL does the same thing and it biases that draw too.

As pointed out above, NBA draws and NFL draws are also unbalanced in their own ways.

These are the vagaries and inconsistencies you get with professional sports. They're run on business principles rather than sporting principles. As long as the former don't screw up the product too much, then fans usually accept it. I reckon the imbalance this season will have less impact on where teams finish the regular season than the differences in budgets.

It'll be interesting to see how NBL accommodate any further expansion teams into the draw, if they still refuse to extend the season's length. Now that would be a much bigger balancing act.

Reply #774263 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Actually I take back what I said about United playing Cairns four times. Because Melbourne choked against Cairns in the final round last season, it cost them HCA and the title.

They should play Cairns more often!

Reply #774265 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last month

"The NBA schedule isn't balanced either."

Pretty sure it is, because of the conferences and divisions.

Never thought about the fixtures till now, but yeah they prob need to do a better job of making it fair in terms of travel or it'll just turn into the A...VFL.

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Anonymous  
Last month

The NBA is somewhat balanced. An east team only plays West teams twice - once home, one away. In the same conference, they play teams in the same division an equal amount of times. For the rest of the conference, there is a similar imbalance ie play those teams an uneven amount of times.

Reply #774267 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

You've got two Melbourne teams- so you open the season with a derby. This will become a tradition I’m guessing- much like Richmond and Carlton always opening the AFL season on a Thursday night. Two power clubs and traditional rivals, guaranteed to get 70,000+ at the MCG.

And you finish the season with a derby too. Even if one of the two teams is out of the playoff mix, it’s always fun knocking your cross town rival down the ladder and harming their playoff chances.

These are just good strategies for building a rivalry and creating buzz. If any of us were running the NBL, we would do the exact same thing.

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Anonymous  
Last month

I just noticed that United have another home double header in round 13 (playing Cairns and brisbane), and they have three days break between games. The final round is also a three day break.

LV, can you do some analysis on this for all the teams ie breaks between double headers? I know Perth play in ADL tonight, then return home to host NZ on Sunday. Thanks in advance.

This is a good thread. Thanks for allowing us to highlight the schedule imbalances across the clubs.

Reply #774269 | Report this post


J  
Last month

LV how do you feel about Perth having to travel to Invecargill? Please also count the number of times perth travels to begin a round and then has a "home" game against a fresh team. Then talk about the imbalance.

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alexkrad  
Last month

MBL

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LV  
Last month

This anon going on about United's last round "home double header", what about the fact that United is actually PLAYING TWICE in the last round?

Most teams are only playing once.

I’d much prefer United was playing only ONCE, and at home- like Perth! And Sydney. And NZ. And Brisbane.

Sorry, don’t have time to analyse double headers but good suggestion

Reply #774272 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"Pretty sure it is, because of the conferences and divisions."

Senator, NBA teams play each other an unequal amount of times. Therefore it's not 'balanced' in the sense this thread is referring to.

Furthermore, there's uproar just about every season about how one conference is significantly stronger than the other, so either the best two teams don't meet in the finals or one has an easier route to get there.

Pretty sure you didn't give this much thought.

Reply #774273 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"This anon going on about United's last round "home double header", what about the fact that United is actually PLAYING TWICE in the last round?"

hahahahahahaha they have a three day break between games. PLAYING TWICE is not going to impact them as much as any team playing one home and one away game. or any away game for that matter.

Reply #774275 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Perth definitely got the toughest schedule given the imbalance this year. That's why their strong start was so important.

Reply #774277 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last month

"Pretty sure you didn't give this much thought."

Not entirely, but I was thinking about the travel aspect only as any team can beat any team on a given night especially in an 82 game season. Travel is a much bigger issue than who you're playing, maybe a team like Toronto would do more mile over a season than maybe an LA team? In the sense of travel, it's not perfect, but I would think it's more balanced than clubs like Perth or NZ having to travel.

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LV  
Last month

[hahahahahahaha they have a three day break between games. PLAYING TWICE is not going to impact them as much as any team playing one home and one away game. or any away game for that matter.]

Wait, you're saying you'd rather play two games without travel, instead of one away game?

Are you suggesting two plane trips is harder on the body than an extra game?

Haha. Seriously?

There's only one team playing away and home, SEM. Cairns plays two away games.

NZ, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth have the luxury of one home game. Illawarra plays once away (in Sydney- short trip). Adelaide plays once away.

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Anonymous  
Last month

With a three day break between games, I'd most definitely take the two home games instead of travelling.

Reply #774280 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

If you're Perth traveling to Auckland, yeah maybe

But if you're Illawarra traveling to Sydney- which is actually happening this season- of course you'd rather than playing the extra game

Having 2 opponents also means United coaching staff are less able to start preparing for possible playoff opponents

Reply #774282 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

In 2017, Cairns, Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth all played two games in the final round - one home, one away. Melbourne lost both and missed out on the finals and we can't have that so the following season, they played two home

In 2018, Sydney, brisbane, NZ, Melbourne and Perth all played two games in the final round - all but Melbourne played one home, one away. Melbourne won the first and lost the second but they had top spot sewn up after the first game so it didn't matter. They won the title so its obvious LK is on to something here so lock that in for the next season.

In 2019, NZ, Cairns, Melbourne and Perth all played two games - only Melbourne got two at home. They choked and cost themselves HCA and the title.

In 2020, Melb, SEM and Cairns have two games in the final round. The final game of the season is Melb vs SEM - Melb have a three day break between home games, SEM have to fly back from NZ and get one less days break.

So firstly, don't pretend this is just something rare. Its three straight seasons of Melb getting an advantage that no other club has, except this year they get the home double header THREE TIMES. Secondly, not only do they get two home games in the final round, they also get more time between games and considering you have anointed SEM to be no easy beat, having that advantage over another playoff contender is massive.

To see it going from Melbourne missing the finals, to then getting gifted a favourable draw two straight seasons, to melbourne choking that advantage away, to then getting an even more favourable draw, is pretty much top of the list when talking about schedule imbalance. Don't you agree, LV?

Reply #774283 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

Go on, keep trying to convince yourself that having two games is favorable compared to most other teams having one game.

I'm having fun reading your stories.

If you look at the last 2 rounds, Perth has the most favourable fixture- they are the only team who:

1. Doesn't have to travel

AND

2. Doesn't play a double header over the last two weeks.

Fit that little factoid into your next story, please.

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Anonymous  
Last month

"If you look at the last 2 rounds..."

If you look at the last four seasons...

Reply #774289 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

In the 2nd last round, Perth plays at home against Brisbane, who will be coming off a home game in Brisbane on the Friday night.

In the last round, Perth plays at home against Adelaide.

So, two home games against middle of the road teams.

Yet we have a Perth fan claiming that the fixture is rigged to give United a cushy finish!

Hahaha, this is brilliant stuff.

Reply #774290 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"Perth plays at home against Brisbane, who will be coming off a home game in Brisbane on the Friday night."

EVERY team faces that sort of turnaround during the season, or has the benefit of being on the receiving end of that turnaround. Only one team plays three home double headers across the season.

"So, two home games against middle of the road teams."

Funny, thats what Melbourne has got too.

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LV  
Last month

Having two teams in the same city will always result in natural advantages for those teams.

Thanks Captain Obvious

SEM only has to leave Melbourne once in the first 8 weeks of the season! October 25 in Perth. Their next game outside Melbourne is November 30 in Brisvegas. So if travelling is the issue, they've got it easiest.

United flew back from the USA and played the next day. How does that fit into your "United has it easy" theory?

Reply #774294 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last month

"Wait, you're saying you'd rather play two games without travel, instead of one away game?"

Ask West Coast Eagles players and Dockers players how much the travel effects their bodies and careers. Rarely see WA based players reaching the same milestone games as those over east. Travel has a huge effect on the body. Playing at home he get straight into recovery, playing away you're straight on a plane, straight to bed, then onto recovery.

Reply #774295 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

In fact, United started their season in Melbourne, flew to Perth to play Perth. Went to the USA, played 2 games there, returned to Melbourne and played the next day.

5 games in 17 days to start the season- Melbourne, Perth, all across the USA and back to Melbourne.

It's a good thing they're favouring United....I'd hate to see them give United a tough fixture.

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Lovebroker  
Last month

United did choke and gave up HCA. But it wouldn't have mattered as the Cats cut down the nets in Melbourne anyway.

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Anonymous  
Last month

LV, in the past four seasons, half the teams in the league have played double headers in the final round. All but one team has played one home and one away.

Singling out an example here and there of other perceived advantages doesn't make the point you think it does. Any club in the league would take a home double header over one home and one away. The fact Melbourne has got it three years in a row, plus two more home double headers this season means there is an imbalance.

You started this thread so don't start talking shit when you didn't get the outcome you wanted.

Reply #774298 | Report this post


Lovebroker  
Last month

LV....United CHOSE to play the NBA games knowing its within the NBL season.

All impacts of games and travelling is on them.

But hey you're going to ignore inconvenient facts anyway right?

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Senator11  
Last month

"In fact, United started their season in Melbourne, flew to Perth to play Perth. Went to the USA, played 2 games there, returned to Melbourne and played the next day."

Didn't they lose their first 4 games? Yep, travel the non factor...

Reply #774300 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

[LV....United CHOSE to play the NBA games knowing its within the NBL season.

All impacts of games and travelling is on them.]

Adelaide had a 7 day turnaround between their USA game and their first NBL game.

NZ had 8 days.

United had 3 days.

So yeah, you could say United had it the toughest.

Reply #774301 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

LV,
When starting a thread after smoking crack, can you please use the Spoiler alert, or preferably the Spam alert. - That way those of us not on drugs can simply avoid the thread.
Thanks

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Lovebroker  
Last month

Again...United chose the NBA games knowing its implications.

It's tantamount to having sex bareback then complaining about pregnancy.

Reply #774304 | Report this post


D2.0  
Last month

I wonder if with 10 teams, we will drop to 27 games? ie each other team 3 teams?
Given that would create a H/A imbalance, I would imagine it will be more likley each other team three times plus rival 4 times.
So SEM v MU, Bris V Cairns, Syd v Ill..
I guess Oerth V Adelaide and Tas v NZ

Reply #774305 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

tl;dr version

28/(8-1)=4

but now

28/(9-1)≠ a round number

zomg!

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Anonymous  
Last month

Just fold Cairns & Illawarra.

Back to an even 8-team comp and less talent dilution.

Reply #774316 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

For what it's worth, Perth had the 3 playoff teams from last year 4 times. SEM look good early, although Perth did smash them. All in all probably not too much difference between United and Perth's schedule strength

Reply #774473 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

PeterJohn nailed it above- it's a business schedule, not just a sporting schedule. This is an entertainment business above all else. So don't always expect completely equitable scheduling.

Although, it is pretty fair sporting schedule. The top teams from last year - Sydney, Perth, United- all play each other 4 times. This is what the AFL does- the higher you finish, the tougher your fixture is. Perth are the reigning champions, so they can't expect any favours.

Interestingly though, SEM has arguably the toughest group of 4 time matchups of anyone.

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Anonymous  
Last month

So why did you start a thread about schedule inequality if you dont want to talk about it?

Also, Perth, melb and Sydney all finished with identical records. Don't pretend Perth were head and shoulders above everyone else.

Reply #774526 | Report this post




 

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