Jack Toft
Earlier this year

Potential Future Jersey retirements

OK, so something to discuss on Anzac Day. What jerseys will be, or have the potential to be, retired by what clubs in the future?

Perth
Martyn (53) - you would think this is a lock in when this happens.
Redhage (42) - The answer to the universe?

Adelaide
Daniel Johnson (21) - has put in a solid performance and been Club MVP many times
Kevin Brooks - player and coach

Melbourne (United Tigers)
Any Tiger Kings worth recognising?

SE Melbourne
A bit early....

Illawarra
Surely Oscar needs to be recognised somewhere..511 total NBL games and 8 seasons at the Hawks is worthy of at least a complimentary cappuccino

Sydney
?

Brisbane
?

Cairns
Loughton

New Zealand
Abercrombie
Vukona
Penney

And what of some of the journeymen?

Topic #47178 | Report this topic


GordonG47  
Earlier this year

You can add Anthony Stewart to Cairns. Possibly even Martin Cattalini?

Reply #804057 | Report this post


Haz  
Earlier this year

Im surprised Perth havent retired Redhage's jersey yet. Been a longer wait than I thought.

Maybe one thing going against him (possibly) is that he played alot of his best basketball during a time when the league was struggling on and off the court? Though I would think he more than deserves to be recognized.

For other clubs, I would consider the Kings retire Boguts jersey (not so much as a King) but for his contribution to basketball as an Australian over his whole career, for when he retires.

Reply #804058 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Goulding at United?

Reply #804061 | Report this post


Dribbler  
Earlier this year

Adelaide
Kevin White

Reply #804062 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Earlier this year

I think we'll find Kevin White's next to Julius Hodge's

Reply #804065 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Earlier this year

I like the Anthony Stewart suggestion.


The Big Cat, Cattalini, is a funny one. Played at a number of clubs you wonder where he reckon she played his best basketball and contributed the most

Reply #804066 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

I would've said Adelaide, without really looking into his numbers.

Reply #804068 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Jersey retirements should remain for exceptional achievement and service.

Maher, Green and Davis for Adelaide all have MVPs, Grand Final MVPs, scoring record and multiple championships to their name. Davis and Maher only played for Adelaide. Maher turned down big money offers from elsewhere to stay loyal to Adelaide. All had long Adelaide careers.

All due respect to someone like Johnson but he is not on their level.

KB you can make more of a argument for. Two rings, with grand final MVP in 98. Still he did only play three seasons for the 36ers, one season for Hunter and one season for Sydney.

Reply #804069 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Not retiring Cal Bruton's jersey for the Wildcats is one that puzzles me.

Reply #804073 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

It doesn't puzzle me at all.

He only played three seasons. The Wildcats reportedly have a games-played minimum, and he doesn't meet it. Even if they didn't have a minimum, he still wasn't here for very long and doesn't belong up there with the rest of those jerseys.

Reply #804083 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

His contribution to the club far outweighs the number of games he played. I doubt the history of the club would have been as successful. Do you know what the minimum number is games played is?

Reply #804084 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this year

Bad Idea Jack.
You should know by now that ANY thread mentioning the retirement of Jerseys will immediately degenerating into crazed rantings about Bruton.

Reply #804085 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

I don't, I don't even know for sure that it exists.

But his contributions to the club as a non-player really aren't all that relevant to having his jersey retired. That's not what jersey retirement is for. If Nick Marvin or Jack Bendat had happened to have sat on the bench for one game at some point, would you retire their jerseys because of what they did as owner and CEO? Of course not.

Bruton's on-court achievements just aren't significant enough, nor did they occur over a long enough period, to warrant a jersey retirement. His off-court contributions may or may not warrant some other recognition - although even there he gets a lot of credit for things he had nothing to do with - but a jersey retirement isn't the right way to acknowledge that.

Reply #804086 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

the best part of his career wasn't even in Perth anyway

Reply #804094 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this year

my 2 cents:
Journeymen don't get such recognition. It's about contribution to the TEAM, not to the sport.
If the Kings retire Bogut's, that would make a mockery of the whole tradition.

I honestly don't know what the issue is with Redhage.
The only thing I can think of, is that he is still playing???
Martin is surely a lock.
Wagstaff is an interesting debate. Record holding one-team player, but played most games off the bench...
(I'd note that Watterson was not recognised, even when the games record holder.)

Johnson, yeah, debatable, but may still play on, and a combination of achievement and longevity should get him over the line.

Loughton, no. He was a great servant of the club for Cairns, but he was mostly good without being great.
Stewart, same-same. He played his best ball in Perth, and was already on the decline when he joined Cairns. Did well to grind out another 7 seasons, but not really up to the jersey retiring level.
If Jawai kicks on a bit, he should get there. Partially from being such a Cairns Icon, and starting & finishing his career there.

Forman is surely a certainty for the Hawks. Sometime soon?
I guess the only detraction would be that he'd already played half his career before reaching the Hawks and was solid without achieving a lot of highlights?
The obvious candidate is Ball, just think of the merchandising. ;-)
Davidson I thought might be a candidate, but again solid without being great.

CG would be a lock for MU if he sticks it out.

How does it work for somebody like Vukona? He deserves to have NZ retire his Jersey, but presumably won't finish his career with them.

The Kings do have a history of honouring anyone with a heartbeat, so who knows.

Reply #804097 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

Did he really have enough of an impact over a long enough period anywhere in the NBL? One year at Brisbane, out of the league for three years, a couple of years at Geelong, back to Brisbane for another couple of years, Perth for a couple of years, Hobart for a year or two...

There's guys like D-Mac who would absolutely have their jerseys retired were it not for their clubs folding, but I'm not sure Bruton even fits into that category.

Reply #804098 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

Wagstaff is a no from me. Has the longevity but never reached the sort of peak that would warrant it - even if he was vastly better than Watterson.

Jawai is a lock for Cairns already I would say.

NZ just have to wait until Vukona retires/dies/rusts/is no longer supported by the manufacturer, and retire his jersey. It doesn't become complicated just because he finished up elsewhere.

Reply #804101 | Report this post


GM  
Earlier this year

Is there a list of which jerseys are retired for each club?

Reply #804105 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Johnson no way. Hasn't achieved anything. No titles, no scoring records, no rebounding records. Good player but no.

D-Mac deserves his jersey retired. He player for the Giants, the Titans (who were mostly the Magic players, coaching staff and fans) and Tigers. United should honour him.

Reply #804106 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

One of Joey wrights suits should go up in the rafters. He was a true inspiration at the club, just ask him.

Reply #804109 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

Is there a list of which jerseys are retired for each club?

This. I can't find who the Cannons retired for example.

Reply #804114 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

Perth:
14 Fenton
6 Ellis
7 Crawford
30 Fisher
21 Vlahov
15 Grace

No idea about the other clubs. I know Melbourne have retired 10 and 21 despite McCarron and Ware wearing them every week. Sydney retired 23 for Heal. NZ 23 for Bruton and 32 for Henare. Is Boucher's 24 retired?

Reply #804117 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

I wonder if Perth were waiting for Damo to retire so they could do him and Shawn together and keep an even number of retired jerseys. They hang half on either side of the championship banners at present.

Reply #804118 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

Adelaide:
4 Darryl Pearce
5 Brett Maher
15 Al Green
33 Mark Davis

Reply #804120 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

Brisbane:

7 Sengstock
22 Radliff
30 Leroy

Reply #804121 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

Cairns:

80 Grabau

Reply #804122 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

Illawarra:

4 Chuck Harmison
5 Gordie McLeod
12 Glen Saville
32 Mat Campbell
33 Melvin Thomas

Reply #804123 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

NZ 23 for Bruton and 32 for Henare. Is Boucher's 24 retired?

Those three yes.

Reply #804124 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

Sydney retired 23 for Heal.

Anyone know if all the player numbers are retired?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Kings#Wall_of_Legends

Reply #804125 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

I know Melbourne have retired 10 and 21 despite McCarron and Ware wearing them every week.

Talk about complicating things. I take it as Gaze/Copeland/Bradtke/Simmons/Gordon/Giddey being retired numbers for the Tigers only then. They just hang from the rafters at United games out of respect. Otherwise it makes no sense.

Reply #804126 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

Cairns:

80 Grabau
8, not 80.

Anyone know if all the player numbers are retired?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Kings#Wall_of_Legends
The Wall of Legends is explicitly separate from retired jerseys.

Reply #804129 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

According to https://web.archive.org/web/20160912173858/http://andthefoul.net/NBLwiki/index.php?Sydney%20Kings :

The Sydney Kings once retired Shane Heals jersey but it has since been un-retired and the Kings have decided to have a 'Hall Of Legends' instead.

Haha wait what? That's gold.

Reply #804130 | Report this post


Ben  
Earlier this year

Came here to see if Kevin White's name was mentioned. Not disappointed.

Reply #804134 | Report this post


GordonG47  
Earlier this year

Perthworld
A couple of hours ago

Cairns:

80 Grabau


Not only was Bobo 8, not 80, but his jersey has already been retired.

https://www.gordong.com/taipans/adel191222/#img=191222-am8i0037.jpg

Reply #804135 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

That's what I meant. I listed all of the retired numbers.

Reply #804136 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

... after kr said he didn't know about the other clubs other than Perth.

Reply #804137 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

Also GM above asked about a list for each club. I guess you skipped all of those posts.

Reply #804138 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this year

I know that Melbourne retired Ray Gordon's number.
Presumably because nobody else wanted to wear it, ever.

Reply #804140 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Wildcats probably won't retire any players' jerseys because they need hanging space for all the championship banners yet to come.

Reply #804143 | Report this post


proud  
Earlier this year

I think Penney will be the next jersey to be retired in the NBL, couldn't find a more fitting player to have their number retired.

I'd like to see Perth retire #9 but would it be for Rogers or Knight, I'm not sure but I know Shaka Lo Buluk is wearing it now.

If RJ Hampton kills it in the NBA then will that impact Vukona having HIS #14 retired by NZ as they can sell Hampton jerseys beyond last season.

I'd retire DJ's jersey as you need to have some representation of your club and it will be some 20 years since Maher retired and you want your young fan base trying to identify with retired players somehow and who better than multiple All NBL'er and highest scorer since league went back to 40 minutes than DJ. Randle and Sobey surely won't.

Reply #804146 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this year

I think Penney will be the next jersey to be retired in the NBL, couldn't find a more fitting player to have their number retired.

I don't think you really understand the concept.
There are many "more fitting" players from the NBL.

Except in exceptional circumstances, retiring a player's jersey commemorates their service to a particular team. Penney played too much of his good ball o/s. IIRC he managed only around 150~160 games for the Breakers.
He had a purple patch around the end of the 00's, but that was only 3~4 seasons.
Great player who made a great contribution to the lead, but doesn't rise to level required IMHO.
And if his is retired, it still doesn't make him the most fitting.

You've got layers like Lisch, who have had a great NBL career, but spread it across 3 clubs.

Reply #804161 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

51 Jason Williams

Reply #804165 | Report this post


Lovebroker  
Earlier this year

No-one at Cairns should have their jersey retired. Burned yes, retired no.

Reply #804176 | Report this post


The Ibek-Way  
Earlier this year

DJ is an interesting one. Played most of his games for one team and stuck with them even when Perth began pursuing him. Holds the record for scoring in the new 40 minute era and as of the last season shares the record for most club MVP's.

The big one going against him of course is that he has never won a championship.

One last bit I would add though, and in my opinion his number should be retired just for this as there is no single piece of proof for anyone having more dedication to their club, DJ stuck with Adelaide through the Marty Clarke era when he really could have gon to any club he wanted.

Reply #804191 | Report this post


Isaac  
Earlier this year

Adelaide has awkwardly had a second tier of sorts - an honoured singlet but without retirement of the number. Ninnis was one. That might be the tier more fitting for DJ and some of the others originally mentioned.

Martin and Redhage in Perth seem obvious. Vukona and Abercrombie also. Not sure the rest make the 'retire singlet' cut without more success or longevity at a single club.

Could measure the second tier purely on games played and make it an NBL honour so it covers time with all clubs?

Reply #804193 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Maher is the last retire jersey worthy player for the 36ers - and deservedly that has been done.

In the foyer area/hallways of the Entertainment Centre they should (probably have already) recognise 36ers 'iconic' players throughout the years.

Iconic may be your stars like Brett Maher, or your crowd pleasers like Willie Farley, or your broader NBL stars like Cattalini, Rob Rose, or your 'icons' like Paul Rees.

DJ, with his multiple 36ers MVPs would fit right in.

Others to be celebrated would be Darnell Mee, KB etc.

Reply #804196 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Zac Delaney & Daniel Jackson

Reply #804200 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Breakers retired CJ's jersey the first season after he retired. CJ played six seasons, 4 of which were good.

Kirk played 19 less games than CJ, but averaged 20 (on ridiculous efficiency), won the MVP (should've won it twice), won the championship when he was the best player on the team, produced the best playoff game performance in Breakers history (Game 2 in Perth, 2011) and is one of the best three greatest players NZ has ever produced.

It's absurd that they haven't retired Penney's yet.

Reply #804204 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

@Isaac - those singlets were definitely retired. The club retired

Ali , Wood , Ninnis and McKay , full ceremony singlet in the rafters the whole catastrophe

Issues arose because they related that they had retired 4, 6, 8,9,10, 15 with 33 and 5 pending. This was back when numbers could only be used if they were up to 10 and 5 was the second digit as a maximum. The club was running out of numbers and so someone made the call that Farley could where 9 and so on. These players singlets were taken down during the Hemmerling era and never made it back up. Pretty sure Ninnis has had 2 retirement ceremonies to boot.

The other issue was the on going argument about including the Bearcats stats into those of the 36ers. Ali and Wood wouldn't qualify solely as 36ers.

The other factor against DJ not being retired is no World or Olympic reps on his resume.

I think the 36ers should create an honour wall for past champions and Olympic / World reps as well as 100 game club and so on.

Current owner had the honour wall that had every player on it painted over.

Reply #804213 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

How were they running out of numbers with over 20 of them still available?

Reply #804220 | Report this post


John  
Earlier this year

D2.0, regarding contribution to the sport, I believe the Miami Heat retired MJ's number despite never having played for them. Why LBJ wore #6 whilst there.
Different league I know, but an example of (playing) contribution without ever suiting up for that particular team.

Reply #804222 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Earlier this year

The second tier is something I like. A good recognition of former players

Reply #804226 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Koberulz tombstone will read " Enjoyed picking apart as many posts on an Internet forum as I could"

Get a life dick

Reply #804228 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

Right, it's much better to just let people make up whatever shit they want.

Reply #804230 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

You do it all the time, why can't others?

Reply #804232 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

If Jawai kicks on a bit, he should get there. Partially from being such a Cairns Icon, and starting & finishing his career there.

BS. One outstanding rookie season, then endless mediocrity.

Reply #804262 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

@koberulz "Wagstaff is a no from me. Has the longevity but never reached the sort of peak that would warrant it - even if he was vastly better than Watterson."

Really interesting one that I discussed recently with some friends, all of us long time members.

Wagstaff's career numbers are admittedly modest, though that is largely due to personal sacrifice for team glory IMO.

A long time member of the national team program for Major tournament qualifiers, there is no doubt in my mind Jesse could have commanded bigger pay days and starting roles at other clubs closer to home had he chosen to pursue them.

9p, 3.4r, 1.1apg across 11 seasons & 329 Games & counting, a one club player.

6 x Championship 2010, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2019, 2020
1 x NBL ROTY 2010
1 x NBL Best Sixth Man 2012
1 x All NBL Third Team 2012 (according to Wiki, I don't recall this)

Unlike Watto, also a great club man, Jesse was capable of much more individually but sacrificed for the greater good.

I think he deserves it, and it should be his going up with or soon after Damo's.

Shawn should have already had a stand alone ceremony for carrying us through the dark years of Challenge on a shoestring budget.

Reply #804273 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this year

Jawai's greatest NBL achievement was in Perth.

Reply #804274 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I like how North Carolina deals with Jersey retirements. They've honoured 51 players and retired 7 jersey numbers, with the following requirements for honoured players:

North Carolina requires that players must be recognized for excellence for their performance during the regular season, in post-season play, or in the Olympics. Specifically, a player's jersey qualifies for honoring if he receives one or more of the following five awards: first- or second-team All-America on one of the major All-American teams that qualify a player for a consensus All-American designation, an ACC Player of the Year, the Most Valuable Player of a National Championship-winning team (as voted by coaches and teammates), the NCAA Basketball Tournament Most Outstanding Player of a Final Four team, or a gold medal in basketball at the Olympics.

For full retirement a player must win one or more of the following six national player of the year awards: Associated Press, National Association of Basketball Coaches, Sporting News, John R. Wooden Award, Oscar Robertson Trophy, or the Naismith College Player of the Year.

Getting that national player of the year in college would be harder than an MVP in NBL I believe, given the number of teams and players. But could nearly give a retired jersey for MVP in that scenario meaning Randle would qualify which would be controversial for some. But IMO Maher and Davis are the only true past legends of the club that deserve their numbers retired, unless you count historical players before sixers like Al, who had his best years before 6ers. But having guys like Ninnes, whilst a good player, was more a celebrated role player, shouldn't qualify for jersey retirement.

So my requirements for honoured player is First Team All NBL, DPOY, MVP, Finals MVP, 200/300 games(?) etc. Then as a retired number to have achieved outstanding performance over a set period of time, eg an MVP like Randle or Finals MVP like Brooks would have to have the 200 game minimum to qualify. And a player like Johnson having won awards including 5 club MVPs would qualify for it when he retires.

Reply #804277 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

College careers are 4 years max, so it makes sense to skew it towards excellence in 1 season. Not the same for leagues like the NBL where longevity is possible and should be a criteria for recognition.

Reply #804287 | Report this post


Isaac  
Earlier this year

If Martin is a lock then maybe Wagstaff gets in too. Both are in there for more than stats. Neither got a free ride to those championships.

Reply #804303 | Report this post




 

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