I wasn't super confident in Brett Brown as our coach to begin with. But if we look at what we will likely be left with I think another roll with Lemanis is the best and most obvious answer. Ok, hear me out:
You're not getting Ben Simmons next year. That is not happening. If by some sort of wizardry guys like Mills, Ingles, Baynes, find themselves in situations where they can excuse themselves of NBA duties to play in the Olympics, Ben isn't going to be following them. We don't need a coach that tickles his balls.
Lemanis has a system and respect with the NBL players who will, most likely, make up the core of our Olympic team as things currently stand. There's an understanding that they have. And the team has had success, albeit at Asia Cup and qualification levels.
If we are coming into this tournament with less than a year to prepare and none of our big hitters, I don't think we further add to the unrest by throwing in a brand new coach out of left field who doesn't have international experience.
Lemanis is my first vote. Brian Goorjian second.
As for the team, we could field a pretty strong team with the main concern being the guard spots. You have to make some cringeworthy selections at some point. Cotton should absolutely waltz into the team.
I think you can add Newley to the list of players to be considered. He still gets to the rack better than most.
Hard to say how they'll do against top-level Euro teams, though.
If we're trying to win, it has to be Lemanis.
The only alternative is deciding we won't compete without our NBA guys, and giving the gig to someone who will take the team through to 2028, using this as a "development" year to start introducing his systems.
It's also not down to the number of NBA guys a team loses but their reliance on those guys. An international team may only have 1 NBA guy, but if he's their equivalent of Germany's Norwitzki, then that can be a bigger loss than if they lost 7 guys like we have.
"Cotton isn't an Aussie."
He's expected to be naturalized by then.
Best performers for n.teamswere nba players
Greece had the Greek freak
France had Fournier and gobert
Spain had Rubio and gasol
Lithuania had valucosnis and sabonis
Germany had Schroeder, theis
Czech had satoransky
Italy had gallinari
Aus had mills
My understanding was bringing Brown in was to appease Ben Simmons, so if it is understood that NBA players won't be able to participate at the Tokyo Games, it does make some sort of sense to go back to Lemanis. Although I think his results with just NBL guys has been a bit patchy?
Lemanis is a natural selection for continuity if we are serious about winning. The NBLers are familiar with his system and it works. That's if Lemanis is even available. If we are conceding we don't have a chance to win, it's fine to select another coach that should stay there for at least a cycle.
Lemanis' "System"? - You mean the system that rellied on a team full of NBA players and failed terribly when it counted at both Rio and WC? Appointing Lemanis would not just make us a laughing-stock, it would be pointless. It turns failure from a probability to a certainty. Obvious choices are either Goorjian or Gleeson.
"If we want to win, it has to be Lemanis. It will be interesting to see which (if any) of our long-term guys opt out of the NBA to play at the Olympics. It means a lot to those guys, some may sacrifice some $$ for another shot at a medal."
For all the love I know Patty Mills, Ingles, and the rest have for the jersey, I don't think you'll see them opt out of the NBA for a chance at a tournament that might not even take place at this rate.
"Lemanis' "System"? - You mean the system that rellied on a team full of NBA players and failed terribly when it counted at both Rio and WC? Appointing Lemanis would not just make us a laughing-stock, it would be pointless. It turns failure from a probability to a certainty. Obvious choices are either Goorjian or Gleeson."
Let's talk about 'failed terribly' shall we? We missed out on our maiden medal in 2016 by 1 point off of an erroneous foul call with 5 seconds left. We missed out on making the world cup final on a missed Patty Mills free throw. We went on to lose bronze only because we didn't have good enough back up options. That isn't Lemanis fault. That comes down to what our talent pool is like at the guard spots.
As for relying on NBA players, what was he to do, bench NBA players? Did France not "rely on NBA players" to beat us? And if you're saying he only could have success with NBA players, that is clearly wrong. He walked all over every team we played in qualifications and Asia Cup. You might scoff at the level of play there but success is success and Lemanis has had it.
"Lemanis is a natural selection for continuity if we are serious about winning. The NBLers are familiar with his system and it works. That's if Lemanis is even available. If we are conceding we don't have a chance to win, it's fine to select another coach that should stay there for at least a cycle."
My gut feeling is we'll get WIll Weaver but I think Lemanis is the better choice. There is no Ben Simmons to appease. He's been there before. He's knocked on the door of greatness multiple times. He has the experience. We should remain serious about winning. No team will have NBA players. We shouldn't sell ourselves short. If we fall short it shouldn't be because we didn't believe in our program.
As for potential line ups, here's mine.
Ryan Broekhoff (if not in NBA)
Mitch McCarron/Nathan Sobey
You forgot about the horrible call at the end of regulation of the Spain game at the World Cup.
And we lost the bronze game because France didn't bother to play their semi final and we were coming off two overtimes. Had a couple of things gone the other way, we'd be gold medallists. Argentina weren't winning.
Agree with this although it'll be tough for Bogut, another year on the body clock.
Other centre options are Mathiang, Humphries, maybe you throw Magnay in there if he has a great
Maybe Delly comes home which pushes out 1 of white or mccarron/sobey
The only reason Lemanis isn't coach right now is Ben Simmons, who isn't even going to be there and was a 50/50 shot at best of ever committing. While I don't think the spot should be just handed back to Lemanis on a platter he certainly should be in conversations and be given every chance to regain the mantle.
"Agree with this although it'll be tough for Bogut, another year on the body clock.
Other centre options are Mathiang, Humphries, maybe you throw Magnay in there if he has a great
Maybe Delly comes home which pushes out 1 of white or mccarron/sobey"
Delly would be a huge inclusion for the squad and would elevate their chances just by being an adequate point guard.
IMHO, has to be Goorjian. Lemanis is deserving but he has sorta had his chance. Same can be said for Brown, but he has obviously advanced his CV enourmously since his 1st stint in the position, as has Goorj. And with the Chinese national team, has had several years at the international level. And surely has a chance as the long-term Boomers coach. So that also answers the good suggestion above that this may be the start of a rebuild. What better time to intro new systems etc., than in an "asterisk" year!
However, in an article I read, there was a one liner that BA had known for "some months". Surely they would have already spoken to prospective coaches by now and may already have answers to be anounced soon (real soon) I hope.
"However, in an article I read, there was a one liner that BA had known for "some months". Surely they would have already spoken to prospective coaches by now and may already have answers to be anounced soon (real soon) I hope."
Yeah they probably have known since Brett was fired what the deal was, or therebouts. I think they'll announce a coach soon.
If we don't have access to our NBA players our weakest spot is the PG. Cottons better off the ball like Mills were he can concentrate on being a scorer. McDowell-Whites name is getting thrown around but I still have never seen him play or know anything about his game. Starting McCarron at point with Cotton at the 2 is my guess.
Mcdowell-White getting talked up because of a lack of options and the hope that with his size and experience in Europe and America, that he brings something our NBL point guards don't. And I agree, Cotton is better at the 2.
After McDowell-White you have to start looking at Jason Cadee, Mitch Norton, Adam Gibson. It's truly not ideal. I start hoping Josh Giddey has a Joe Ingles-like rookie season and comes in ready to take a role. Pickings are slim at guard.
Gibson lol. That guy is like 11th man now.
It'll be mccarron and Sobey.
WMW is much better long term, you probably didn’t watch the qbl season and he was injured most of the time at Houston. In Germany he was what... 19 or 20y.o. Can’t take much from he’s time in Germany.
The whole story from BA: [from news.com. Article: Brown exit just the start for the Boomers. No firewalls etc.]
"The Boomers' preparations for the revised Olympics have hit a hurdle after Brown informed Basketball Australia several weeks ago that he no longer had the time to perform his duties due to a change in personal circumstances."
"Basketball Australia has started the process to replace Brown and will interview the likes of Will Weaver, Brian Goorjian, Rob Beveridge, Dean Vickerman and Trevor Gleeson."
"Weaver has a lot of support given his long tenure as a Boomers assistant coach, but he could be ruled out if he secures an NBA job after being linked to the New Orleans Pelicans."
"It’s understood former coach Andrej Lemanis won’t put his hand up to return to the Australian job he left after last year’s World Cup in China."
Good article, worth a read.
Is it irrational of me to have an issue with that? Most coaches usually at least have college/semi-pro playing experience. How could the players respect a coach whose only slightly older than them with no playing background in the slightest form.
What kind of offense did he run in Sydney?
Weaver runs a very nba offence and defence, it's more of a position less where all players can swap. Rebound, run either in offence or defence. The two , three and four in Weaver game plan are all interchangeable and depending on who they play at the five this season could also be interchangeable. He obviously has some standard pick and roll plays and others like all coaches but prefers run and gun.
"It's understood former coach Andrej Lemanis won’t put his hand up to return to the Australian job he left after last year’s World Cup in China."Well there goes the medal window.
Whoever gets the job needs to be in it for a full cycle, this needs to be the first phase of 2024.
I am surprised to see Lemanis isn't putting his hand up. If the reason he chose not to do it is valid (connecting with younger players) that wouldn't be an issue in this situation. obviously there's more going on there.
As for who we should pick, search me? Will Weaver has NBA aspirations that might take him from the role. I actually think Goorjian shores up as the best bet when it comes to having the experience with the players and the record. I understand Bevo has some personal problems that sometimes get in the way of his coaching. And I don't think we try untried guys like Gleeson, Vickerman, etc.
This article makes a good point about Trevor Gleeson's relationship with Bryce Cotton potentially being a factor. If we assume no NBA players play, Bryce will be our Patty Mills, and probably our only real scoring threat.
'Karma is a bitch. We piss off an excellent performing coach and legendary assistant and damage our team culture all because of a couple of fragile egos and now it all falls in a heap. It serves us right. '
If Lemanis coaches there's no Bogut & thats probably the issue!
If Lemanis coaches there's no Bogut
I am surprised to see Lemanis isn't putting his hand up. If the reason he chose not to do it is valid (connecting with younger players) that wouldn't be an issue in this situation.I suspected when the news broke that he was pushed, and offered the face-saving cover story. His refusal to put his hand up again is not dissuading me from that opinion.
Apologies Nostraballmus has been sleeping
Has proven he can't win
Same as Goorj
Are we serious about being a medal chance still at the Div 2 Olympics ?
If so, only choice is a proven Euro medal winner
Another chance for BA to do it.
But they won’t
If you're going to bring in a coach with reasonably short notice it's a good idea that they're familiar with the players. Bringing in some European coach who has no real footing with the NBL - where we're likely to take most of the team from - isn't going to be an efficient way to mould a team.
I think some people underestimate how strong and deep the european teams like Spain, France and Serbia are. There's plenty of guys who simply choose to play in Europe rather than the NBA, some bigger names like Niko Mirotic or Nando De Colo etc. Spain also has veterans like Claver, Llul, Fernandez, Rodriguez.
I think the Boomers can put a good team on the floor, but those traditional Euro powerhouses will still have better squads on paper.
I was a critic of Lemanis but wouldn't mind going back to him if he'd reconsider given the current situation. In lieu of that i'd go Bevo
"IA is a uniquely Euro style of play so perhaps a Euro coach wouldn't be a bad thing as the NBL is moving away from the style played at FIBA events.
Boomers recent competitiveness and success has largely been built on playing a different style to everyone else. I am not sure that following the crowd is the way to success.
Apparently Goorjian is firming up as the favourite for the position. I don't love going "back to the future" with coaches but he is probably the safest hands available - long international experience having coaches the Boomers before, and coaching in China as well as an assistant on their national team. My only concern is age - he's 67. I know that a lot of coaches coach much later into their years than that, but it's hard to see Goorjian as a long-term solution past "maybe" 2024 if we're lucky.
But if we're looking for immediate success and to optimize our chances right now, he stands as the safest hands available.
Lets be honest. If we are going into an Olympics in 9 months, with a team comprised of predominately NBL players,
Plus obviously you will be chasin guys like Kay, Motum, Brandt, etc out of Europe...
And if you're trying to do as well as possible at this olympics, then Goorjian is out, you need somebody that has been coaching in the NBL in recent years and knows the players. If Lemanis is out, that leaves Bevo, Moobs, and Vicko. My biggest concern is whether international refs would put up with moobs being a dick on the sidelines, or if they would simply tech him and through him out of every game, but clearly he is the best qualified.
"And can we say that Goorjian really got the best out of his Chinese players? Has he shown that he's up with current trends or is he still sticking to what worked 15 years ago?
He's been actively coaching the whole time, and with success. Just because you havent seen him in 15 years doesnt mean he hasnt kept with the times
NO WAY for Lemanis. The way he has put his roster together over the past few years is puzzling to say the least. Had his chance last Olympics and missed. Not to mention the Bullets have made the playoffs one time since they have been on his watch so that speaks for itself as to where he sits in order of the most talented coaches.
ME and Isaac - I don't disagree.
If we DO go with him, then I just hope he's as good as everyone seems to think he will be.
I see parallels with the Brett Brown and Sandy Brondello appointments - they're (W)NBA coaches so there was this big assumption that they MUST be better than anything we could produce ourselves.
I was never overly enthused with the Brett Brown selection. It was just another ball-tickle for Simmons who seems to have a "take it or leave it" relationship with the team. They put David Patrick in the coaching staff for the World Cup and that didn't sway him. He used the excuse that he was "working on his jump shot", which he could have done during the tournament. And in the end, his shot was no better than it was before. The guy actively courts reasons not to play, and even with Brown it was going to come down to whether he could be bothered at the time. So for me, dropping Lemanis for Brown was a mistake from the get-go.
But now we have a few choices; you either go with experience and a steady hand in Goorjian or you go for something of a rebuild under a different coach.
I don't think we're so far out of the game with an non-NBA team that we start from scratch again. And that's why I support a Goorjian take over.
Longer term I think Goorj may be the go.
But in the short term, I would go with Gleeson.
Critics say that he wouldn't be as good without the Wildcats money and good players, but he's going to have access to the best players in the NBL and Europe, players he knows very well.
He's also done exceptionally well running a system that doesn't rely on a high-scoring PG
Hahahahahah you kidding! That above comment is from a Perth idiot who has no idea.
Cotton is literally the highest paid player in the league.
They made a massive play at Kay to try and keep him from going to Europe.
The dumped Dario Hunt and paid $40k US net a month to get plumlee.
Wildcats paid the most luxury tax.
Gleeson can't win with paying for talent.
"If you have to go all the way to China to get a coaching gig, you probably suck. Seriously, anybody on this forum want to go to China to work?"
Guess your "job" with jobkeeper is your career high. You have no idea how much U$ they pay over there. Tax? What's that.
The proof is in the pudding. The Kings paid big money to get Lisch from the wildcats, then Melbourne paid big money to get Prather (which got them a ring) but in the end Gleeson has more rings than any other coach in the league batting Goorj now he is back. Yes hail Bryce Cotton but the coach has to get some credit but never seems to for some reason. One thing is for sure. The reason is certainly NOT about results it would seem...
Hall of fame coaches ALWAYS had hall of fame players in their team. But there have been hall of fame players that never had all of fame coaches.
Perth always paid top dollar for talent. That's not a bad thing either. But I doubt anyone wants to see the Australian National team run flex at the Olympics
In Olympic basketball you only need to finish 4th out of 6 in your group to progress to quarter finals, so realistically only need to win 2 of 5 games (and only 1 if oher results go your way).
Of the teams that have already qualified, Iran, Japan and Nigeria should be winnable without our NBA players (and theirs). If we get 2 of them in our group that would help, only 1 and we might struggle.
The other qualified teams are US, Argentina, Spain and France. US will obviously be a shell of itself, while Argentina should be at or near full strength and France and Spain will be in a similar position to us, though with better depth.
The most dangerous teams might be those that qualify out of the play in tournaments, given they'll be in form, and using their non NBA guys.
The teams I think would make it out would be
Turkey (from the Canada group)
Then Croatia, Serbia and Lithuania to qualify from their respective groups. I'd expect Lithuania and Serbia, along with Argentina to be the heavy favourites.
There's literally no way to know what talent is going to look like because NBA players have been at every meaningful international tournament for almost 30 years. I'm not as quick as others to assume we wont compete. I remember our 2014 team had maybe one NBA player and we slaughtered Lithuania, so I don't see why this situation is so much different (bare in mind, no Patty Mills for that tournament).
Not saying we're going to waltz to a medal but early projections are tough to make.
I remember our 2014 team had maybe one NBA player
Not even close.
Matthew Dellavedova (Cleveland Cavaliers)
Aron Baynes (San Antonio Spurs)
Dante Exum (Utah Jazz)
Cam Bairstow (Chicago Bulls)
Adam Gibson (Adelaide 36ers)
Ryan Broekhoff (Besiktas)
Dave Andersen (Strasbourg)
Chris Goulding (Zaragoza)
Joe Ingles (Maccabi Tel-Aviv)
Nate Jawai (Galatasaray)
Brock Motum (Bologna)
Brad Newley (Gran Canaria)
Is Brown out long-term, or only for the next NBA season? Forgive my ignorance, but does he have another job yet in the USA?
Should BA do what other sports have done and cast a much wider net (ie internationally)?
If we restrict it to Australians, then I think we can assume that Goorj is the favourite.
"Bairstow and Exum had been drafted into the NBA, and were therefore NBA players."
Let's be realistic, at that time Exum was a project. Even Gibson was getting similar playing time. Bairstow was a serviceable big, but he, too, made the NBA partly due to potential. Both were NBA players with an asterisk.
Regardless, I'd say we had very good talent overall, with a strong core of 4 with Ingles, Baynes, Delly and Broekhoff. Although Andersen had a subpar tournament for him, perhaps add him as the 5th of the core. Bairstow and Motum shared time mostly backing up the 4, Newley was useful, and then Gibson and Exum got minutes by default. Also recall our 3-3 record in that tournament was because we conceded the Angola game. We should've been 4-1 in the 1st round, and would've been 5-1 and into the quarters had we not choked against Turkey. I'm not sure that we could've beaten Lithuania a second time in the quarters, but at that stage in a major tournament, who knows.
Australia has loads of good coaches. Bevo, Gleeson, Vickerman all have proven their value in the NBL.
However NBL success doesn't always translate to international success.
So again this puts Lemanis as frontrunner. Players know his systems, and he's been successful in World Cup and Olympics- unlucky Australia doesn't have multiple medals.
"And Bairstow and Exum had been drafted into the NBA, and were therefore NBA players."Why is it? They were signed to NBA contracts. That makes them NBA players. If something happened that led the NBA to prevent its players playing, they would not have participated.
Playing an NBA game is probably a good prerequisite for being an NBA player, and they'd played 0 between them.
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