Anonymous
Last month

NBL Refs are a joke

Let's have this discussion why are they so bad and actually hurt the game. It’s become shocking the way they go about things allowing certain coaches no warning and a Tech foul yet others can call them F’ing clowns and nothing happens. United coach screams Hey Hey Hey so
much thought it was a new song out Hey Hey Hey !!! Gleason goes at them to and seems to get away with things some things. The miss calls that even a Jr ref could get right and when they are found wrong on something they make it personal. You can see most of the coaches are players are tired of these refs but what’s done when the refs are not performing nothing at all protected species. Some don’t even deserve to do JR’s yet this the product we are getting as fans. Most fans don’t care how you call the game just be consistent that’s wall we ask and that’s no happening. The T last night on Henry was terrible especially hearing Gorgi call them F’ing clowns we all herd that one no warning no T these refs should be fined and some fired if there are enough replacements.

Topic #48419 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Last month

Where does it say in the rule book that they have to give warnings?

Reply #845199 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

I'm guessing this is related to the inconsistency of calling a tech on Conor Henry?

If you’re going to exercise discretion you should do it consistently - that’s the criticism here

Reply #845200 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

It's a hazard for all sports, the afl, league, union, soccer have all struggled big time. Refs are not machines, they see things differently, even on the same call. Imo the coaches should only be allowed to talk to refs in timeouts, 1/4, 1/2 times otherwise shut up. Most time the refs get it right, don’t forget, no refs, no game.

Reply #845202 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Did you hear Goorjian's off his microphone or did you hear it in the stadium audible to the public? There is a massive difference.

Reply #845204 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I agree that consistency is the key word. Players/Coaches can adjust to the way the game is being called, but inconsistency within a single game or even a single quarter is a big issue.

I know that each season the Refs have points of focus, and I believe these are communicated to the clubs. Yet I can't imagine how frustrating it must be when reviewing game tape to see countless differences in how contact on and off the ball is being called. It's difficult to make adjustments to your sets and movements when you aren't rewarded for doing so.

Wrapping your arm around the screening player is an example from this current season. It was occurring frequently in the start of the season and not being called. Then the Refs seemingly made a point of calling it for a round or two to try and stamp it out. It's still happening now and not being called, so as a coach or player you're instinctively going to want to ride the Refs about it.

Particularly if you copped a few fouls for it in previous rounds and made the effort to adjust your defensive mindset to not hold. Then seemingly it's suddenly 'legal' again and your opponent is getting an advantage out of something you were previously punished for.



Reply #845206 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

#206 this is every professional sport, AFL, NRL, NBA, NFL etc etc

Reply #845208 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Water is wet, so?

Reply #845226 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"Exercising discretion" implies inconsistency. It takes into account the context of the game, previous actions, reputations, the umpire's resilience, etc.

"No discretion" is consistent.

They swear? Tech foul. They step over the court line? Tech foul.
They question a call? Tech foul.

But that might not make for a fun game, exciting spectacle, close ending.
Tech foul a coach for stepping over the boundary line twice in the first quarter? That's a miserable experience for everyone.

Reply #845244 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

"Exercising discretion" implies inconsistency"

It doesn't though. That’s a straight up wrong interpretation of the word discretion.

Discretion is applying sense to a situation, and generally is in place for lack of black letter law rules which often have the affect of absurd outcomes.

Discretion and consistency can go hand in hand - treating the same situation with the same call is both discretionary and consistent if the ref has the power to do so.

Reply #845245 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

There's no league in the world where the refs have such a huge impact on the game more than the NBL.

Reply #845249 | Report this post


FreeView  
Last month

Can anyone confirm this ?
Mayberry & Aylen on big $$$$$ full time
Rest of refs next to nothing !

If true, is that good or bad ?

Reply #845251 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

#249 The NFL and New Orleans Saints from the 2019 Playoffs say hi.

Reply #845252 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Love how extreme everyone on here gets. No league .... yeah right, every league. Remember the NBA refs caught fixing matches for bets? Nah.

Also worth pointing out its not the referees, its the League directions. They call what they're told to call.

Reply #845253 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Last month

My thoughts:
1) yeah, they're bad and they certainly appear not get much training, especially for reffing the big guys.
2) despite that I wish the NBL would clamp down on ALL coaches from talking to the refs. Maybe they'd ref better if someone wasn't yelling in their ear all the time. And also set an example for all levels.
3) I also wish players would just stop running into another player and expecting to get a call. While trying to foul is part of the game, it seems out of control here. Promote scoring, not foul calls.

I feel that while the refs aren't good, the environment could be made a lot better for them and then maybe we'd start to see an improvement.

Reply #845254 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Last month

*trying to draw a foul

Reply #845256 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

They really need to get rid of the review and only make it available in the last 2 minutes of the game. They also need to learn that not everything is a charge.

Reply #845257 | Report this post


FreeView  
Last month

Can anyone confirm this ?
Mayberry & Aylen on big $$$$$ full time
Rest of refs next to nothing !

If true, is that good or bad ?

Reply #845259 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

partly

Reply #845261 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

I agree - no need for coaches to ride the refs to the amount they do. I'd like to see refs let coaches vent on contentious calls but if coaches ride the refs continually, refs should be free to tell them to shut up.

Also agree with players running into other players and expecting a call. No reason for NBL to let dumb players off - happy for refs to tell them to shut up too.

No reason for refs to have to let people act like clowns. It’s reasonable venting for the odd contentious call that we want to let it slide and give players and coaches time to calm their farms.

Reply #845266 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

2) despite that I wish the NBL would clamp down on ALL coaches from talking to the refs. Maybe they'd ref better if someone wasn't yelling in their ear all the time.

This, the refs can help themselves in this regard though but don't. In the next round senior refs like Aylen and Mayberry should tech surreal offender Gleeson along with Goorjian and Vickerman to shut them up once and for all (after a pre-game warning that they're drawing a line) and problem solved. Why is this so hard? Do it this weekend.

Reply #845267 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I know Aylen and his reputation is outstanding. He's full time afaik. Based on him and knowing where he used to work a fair while ago, he would be on good money.

Reply #845268 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

" 2) despite that I wish the NBL would clamp down on ALL coaches from talking to the refs. Maybe they'd ref better if someone wasn't yelling in their ear all the time. And also set an example for all levels. "

Seconded.

Gleeson and Vickerman sometimes put continuous pressure. I think it makes the refs anxious and doubt themselves. It's fine for coaches to dispute genuinely 50/50 calls and show some emotion, but the constant chatter, almost like they’re coaching the refs, looks unprofessional and probably affects the calls.

I think that Lemanis, Kelley and Shamir are probably the best (based on games I’ve seen) and Gleeson, Vickerman, Goorj (at least in terms of sheet F U ref you don’t know anything) the worst offenders.

Reply #845271 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Shamir?? You lost credibility there mate

Reply #845272 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

No point the 2 senior guys throwing T's if the rest of the group don't follow. Vickerman copped a technical against Brisbane recently from memory

Reply #845273 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Forde doesn't get into them much as well, he’s quite polite, so Lemanis, Kelly, Forde, Shamir, Mitchell are fine, Henry snaps at times, that leaves Gleeson, Vickerman, Goorj as the guys that should shut up.
We all on here agree that coaches should shut up, Larry get it done.

Reply #845274 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Mitchell, do you actually watch the games mate?

Reply #845279 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

" Shamir?? You lost credibility there mate"

Polite disagreement is fine. I've seen him actually explain the rules to referees and then get silence. I like that about Lemanis and Shamir. The problem is not coaches disagreeing with referees, the problem is them riding the referees possession after possession: TRAVEL TRAVEL TRAVEL or HOW LONG IN KEY HOW LONG HOW LONG or FOUL FOUL FOUL or BABA BABA BABA. Actually, the last isn’t directed at the refs but it’s still annoying.

Reply #845283 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The top offenders are Dean 1st with his Hey hey hey hey and hey!!!! Then G&G Gorgi Gleason are right there Henry started off ok but is now at them job pressure could be his excuse and Mitchell he's right there as well. However the refs are so terrible I don’t even mind it anymore. Look at most the players expressions on most calls and granted not are or bad or wrong calls but the NBL refs are the worst officials by far it’s not even close when you listen to them explain or get into they feelings about a call they missed the replays during the cop showed & proved that what we are witnessing is terrible officiating and in some cases they still got the calls wrong. Also there are a couple officials who bate coaches say things that are dare I say unprofessional from being a ref yet the players and coaches have to take that as well each game we notice the refs more Then the players that says a lot there. I hope this is fixed because they are really shocking each game. You get paid good coin to run up and down and make solid judgement calls yes judgement calls but most NBL refs judgment sucks

Reply #845284 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Ever heard of punctuation?

Reply #845286 | Report this post


A Nony Mouse  
Last month

Strange how all these "terrible refs" keep getting picked for backyard tournaments like the Olympic Games, FIBA Tournaments, Asia-Pacific Tournaments etc...

Reply #845291 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Because each Country that qualifies is awarded a referee spot to match. They get invited because we have a team competing. No mens 3on3 team, no referee as an example.

Reply #845293 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Canada have 3 referee's at the Olympic Games. How does that work with your theory? Another idiot with no clue.

Reply #845295 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Because FIBA invite specific referees of standing on top of those selected to represent their country. This hasn't happened in regards to the Aus referees. So in fact it proves Canada produces better international referees than we do.

Reply #845296 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Australia are not at the Olympics for 3 x 3 but we still
have a referee appointed. Nice try thanks for playing

Reply #845298 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Now that's how you shut a idiot up hahahah

Reply #845299 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

We have a girls team playing, sexist much?

Reply #845300 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Canada Women have qualified and not the Men. So now we are saying they produce better referee's than the USA whom you all love. Because the Canadian National League is awesome. FIBA chose who they want regardless of who is competing. Rankings within the federation means nothing.

Reply #845301 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Australia haven't qualified yet but a referee has already been appointed. So no not sexist

Reply #845302 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Let's go the other way, maybe go look at the list of 30 selected referee's and then go slap yourself for being silly. They even dumped one of Australia's initial appointments.

Reply #845303 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

KET, perhaps I misrepresentated my thoughts on discretion. Yes, we want consistency. Yes we want discretion. But discretion can appear inconsistent. A coach that rides an ump all game long, can be Td for just over more comment. The other coach makes the same comment, and doesn't get the tech. Because... discretion takes into account lots of factors which are invisible to the observe.

It might be very consistent behaviour from the umpire. After 10 snarky comments your get a tech. Every time. Every game. But to the outsider, discretion can appear damn inconsistent without knowing all the factors taken into consideration.

That's all I'm saying. Discretion means that the exact same action can have different consequences based on other factors. It's inconsistent. Or it might be the most consistent application of discretion ever. But no one knows.

Reply #845306 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The NBL refs sucks let's just agree on that the coaches are going to complain that’s most coaches the good ones know how to get at the refs some use fear some ride refs that there job to affectively deal with such behaviour good refs have thick skin great refs understand time and score these refs don’t do either they are overly emotional can’t take the heat when they stuff up and then give out inconsistent T’s yes they also lie when confronted no integrity at all. They are as close to the USA police as you can’t get might be a bit much but there someone had to say it. They F’ing suck and that’s simple the NBL has a ref issue this is something a lot of fans have a issue with from fans to coaches and players they such and you know what else they don’t care they suck because they will keep getting away with it hahahaha

Reply #845307 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

Some of you have absolutely no right to complain about anyone's competency at anything. Stop hammering at your keyboards and stop to breathe for a second. Use some punctuation, maybe a paragraph break or two, and check for spelling errors.

Mistakes happen - this is true also of the officiating - but good lord half these posts are utterly incomprehensible.


Most complaints about officiating, in my experience, come from people who either don't like the rules, and think the officials are somehow to blame for them, or don't even know the rules, and think a call is wrong when it's clearly correct.

Reply #845308 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I think if you can't spell or use correct grammar that you deserve five across the eyes from Mitch Creek.

Well said Koberulz x.

Reply #845309 | Report this post


Hk  
Last month

The refs are WAY too whistle happy. When you have 40 min games and 6-7 players are sitting on 4 fouls you know something is up. The reason why imports initially struggle over here is because EVERYTHING is a foul. Like someone said earlier more points less fouls. Coaches need to have an appeal until they lose. This is a good way of making the many stuff ups right. The referees worked it well in the NBL cup and good to see they didn't let pride get in the way of making the right call.

Reply #845314 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Death, taxes, KR believing he's arbiter of truth and knowledge

To act like a brilliant jerk you actually have to be brilliant, otherwise you’re just a jerk!

Reply #845324 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"Most complaints about officiating, in my experience, come from people who either don't like the rules, and think the officials are somehow to blame for them, or don't even know the rules, and think a call is wrong when it's clearly correct."

Except almost every round there is a contentious call that is wrong and there has also been instances where that substantially affects the outcome of the game. In fairness, from what I've seen this year, it's not the likes of Mayberry or Aylen making that call, but that doesn't mean it's not happening or that the illiterate masses don't have a point.

Reply #845328 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

more points less fouls.
That's not how it works. Letting the defence get away with more means scoring goes down.

Reply #845373 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

There's a reason the scoring is so low and it's because the defence is allowed too much holding and bumping.

More fouls would force a cleaner game and create more space for people to score.

More fouls = more points.

Reply #845375 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Lots of fouls being called long term would drive scoring down and hurt the flow of the game

The aim is to call fouls early, set the behaviour standard, with hopefully players adjust, creates more space and less physicality allowing higher scores better flow and translate into less fouls called as time goes on.

So both are right, really.

Reply #845394 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

And if the players don't adjust? The issue is they don't. They want every advantage so like Goorjian teams of old, the current bullets and NZ is they keep whacking and hacking and grabbing and when they are all called they bitch like school girls. Hence why Gleeson, Vickerman, Mitchell, Lemanis, Shamir and to a lesser extent Henry ride every call because they want that advantage.

Reply #845397 | Report this post


Europa  
Last month

They don't adjust because they know the referees will give in. Because they call their bluff.

That's the issue, the League has no guts on the issue. Make a stand, enforce it, stick to it all season. When fans complain you say you have set the standard teams need to adjust. When coaches complain you say you know the rule stop sending your players out to break them. They'll either foul out every game or learn to adjust.

So we end up with one of the dirtiest and physical leagues in the world with final scores in their 60s.

Reply #845399 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

No that happened during the NZ v Perth championship era's

Reply #845401 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

KR- has known everything about everything, ever since he was born

Quite the talent

Reply #845415 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Imho, the really critical calls are those that adversely impact on safety. So fouls should be called, and some fouls such as any tripping action might be better being over-called for safety.

Stepping onto the court by coaches etc- they're usually older, the game moves quickly, instant call for safety.

Body contact (through close D) against shooter is good D but any kind of hacking or getting under a shooters "cylinder" is dangerous and should be called.

A couple of seasons ago the NBL were doing discussion of contentious calls during breaks in telecasts. Mostly the reviews confirmed the calls were correct.

The refs aren’t as bad as some have made out.

Reply #845419 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

#419 that isn't even coherent. What a ridiculous post.

Reply #845423 | Report this post




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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 10:09 am, Tue 11 May 2021 | Posts: 874,841 | Last 7 days: 1,160