lawrencerinaldo7
Two months ago

Unsportsmanlike Foul / Flagrant?

Hi, I was a spectator of a basketball competition in Australia that uses FIBA ruling.

After getting an offensive rebound, the offensive player was driving towards the basket facing in the same direction as the defensive player who was standing still, back turned. The offensive player (being slightly taller than the defender) made contact with his elbow to the head of the defensive player. The foul was called on the defender.

The referee admitted to seeing the contact to the head and explained that the offensive player had "no intent" and was "accidental" and therefore, it should not be an offensive foul or flagrant.

Is this a flagrant 1 or unsportsmanlike foul on the offensive player even if they had no intent of hitting the defenders head using the elbow??

If you need more details let me know! Appreciate any responses

Topic #50083 | Report this topic


koberulz  
Two months ago

FIBA has no such thing as a flagrant foul.

If there was no intent, under what criteria would it be deemed unsportsmanlike?

Reply #892418 | Report this post


Sebastian  
Two months ago

37.1.1 Bullet 2

Excessive, hard contact caused by a player in an effort to play the ball or an opponent.

If it's deemed hard or excessive contact the intent is not relevant as the rule states even in an effort to play the ball.

Reply #892424 | Report this post


Anon  
Two months ago

That's no different to a blind pick up the floor. That's hard contact with no intent. Incidental elbow on the rebound could be hard.

Without seeing the play its hard to say but wouldn't call unsportsmanlike for incidental contact. Plus I don't think you can call accidental "unsportsmanlike" by definition.

Reply #892438 | Report this post


Sebastian  
Two months ago

The rule precludes intent except for C1

Reply #892446 | Report this post


lawrencerinaldo7  
Two months ago

Firstly, I don't know the rule differences between FIBA and NBA which is why I'm asking for help. I don't know what the foul would be called under I just know that it could be an offensive foul considering the offensive player picked up his dribble and in the middle of taking to steps towards the basket swang his elbow into the head of the defender.

I don't know if the intention has anything to do with whether it should be a foul or not, because if a defender hits the face of an ball handler and says "I was trying to go for the ball" is that excused also?

I'm hearing mixed opinions.

Reply #892476 | Report this post


lawrencerinaldo7  
Two months ago

@Sebastian

What do you mean the "The rule precludes intent except for C1"?

also, what is C1?

Reply #892478 | Report this post


S1L3NC3R83  
Two months ago

https://www.bnsw.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/17-Junior-Referee-Training-Sheet-Unsportsmanlike-Foul-2021.pdf

I think C! is criteria 1 on a document like the one above.

As Anon is saying it is hard to determine whether an USF was warranted. Your first telling of the incident says " The offensive player (being slightly taller than the defender) made contact with his elbow to the head of the defensive player. The foul was called on the defender."

Just because contact was to the head does not preclude a foul being called on a defender who is not in legal guarding position. In this description there wasn't anything that suggested it should be anything other than a defensive foul or a no call.

The second description is "I don't know what the foul would be called under I just know that it could be an offensive foul considering the offensive player picked up his dribble and in the middle of taking to steps towards the basket swang his elbow into the head of the defender."

This indicates you have apportioned intent to the offensive player as he "swang his elbow into the head of the defender" and even if you hadn't it would have to be judged by the referee if they believe the contact was "Excessive" so again all outcomes would still be available, offensive foul, defensive foul, USF and no call

" don't know if the intention has anything to do with whether it should be a foul or not, because if a defender hits the face of an ball handler and says "I was trying to go for the ball" is that excused also?"

Absolutely, if you watch any NBL game there are many of these called as normal fouls with no USF assigned every season.

Reply #892514 | Report this post


lawrencerinaldo7  
Two months ago

Wow thank you!

I do believe it was at least an offensive foul but can that only be called if there is no call on the defensive player first?

Also, if an offensive player "swang their elbow", and makes contact but wasn't trying to (for example, doing a euro-step) does it still mean intent was there?

Reply #892590 | Report this post




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