Shano76
Last week

36ers losing Franks?

Santa and Luke mentioning Franks may be heading to a Euro deal.
Would be a big blow. I hope we would replace him and still sign an import guard.
Also mentioned we maybe in to Deng Acouth.

Topic #50333 | Report this topic


Zodiac  
Last week

Unbelievable, why on Earth would the Sixers have allowed him to have a Euro out clause especially when we gave him a 2 year deal?

Reply #897101 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last week

Does this conveniently solve the Franks/DJ duplication? Or would the signing have been worth it regardless? Never saw Franks play, so just going by chat on here.

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Zodiac  
Last week

Not really he's a better player than DJ and the assumption was DJ would be moving to centre otherwise why sign him in the first place?

It's not like DJ's got leverage over the Sixers anymore he's entering the final year of his contract and already starting to transition to 3x3.

Reply #897104 | Report this post


Ballman  
Last week

Shouldn't be giving Euro out clauses, if the Euro club wants to buy his contract out then fair enough. We shouldn't be the default talent feeder to the rest of the world, NBA excluded.

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Perthworld  
Last week

Wow, it's only early August yet the Sixers have already delivered.

Seriously why is everything so hard for this franchise?

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Master Chief  
Last week

I guess it is what it is. Maybe giving an out clause was what helped lure him in the first place? Better to lose an import than a local.

Why wouldn't they replace him?? Obviously his money will be free to use.

I think it does give an opportunity to balance the roster a bit more. Perhaps a Franks replacement could also be a bit of a 4/5. In a perfect world you want a two way player, but I think Adelaide should focus more on a defence and rebounding type if you have to pick one. If Franks is gone.

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Dunkman  
Last week

Lol, I can't help it. Oh my Sixers if true.

Reply #897110 | Report this post


LV  
Last week

Sucks for the 36ers if true

Interestingly I watched this video this morning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ6Vop92NX8

They mentioned Trey Kell has a Euro out clause and a Chinese out clause in his deal with SEM. Maybe it's common.

Reply #897111 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last week

Maybe giving an out clause was what helped lure him in the first place?


We gave him a 2 year deal that should've been the lure.

Better to lose an import than a local.


Seriously? It's better to lose the best signing we've made in years than lose any of our locals?

Why wouldn't they replace him??


Do you think NBL proven/ex-NBA PF's grow on trees? There is almost no chance we can find a comparable replacement for Franks this late in the off-season now.

but I think Adelaide should focus more on a defence and rebounding type if you have to pick one.


Franks was the third best rebounder in the NBL last season

Reply #897112 | Report this post


Shano76  
Last week

Why would they replace him? Well it is the 36ers.
I could see them replacing him and then not signing a import guard to save $.
If we lose him, do we go for a similar player or a bit bigger player? Seems to be some legit big talent this season, and we only have DJ and Sotto.

Reply #897118 | Report this post


LV  
Last week

^A bit of alarmist pandemonium from Zodiac there

Imports are a dime a dozen. Quality Aussies are a scarce resource and therefore more valuable.

Sucks to lose Franks but with smart selecting they should be able to find another quality import

Reply #897119 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last week

Out clause with $$$, they don't just say ok seeya...

Reply #897120 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Last week

I don't blame the Sixers for this, it was a gamble and it looks like we lost.

We can probably agree that Franks was one of the better imports last year and would be sought after.

Being sought after he probably wanted an out clause (or forget it).

So we roll the dice.

Its not the end of the world, its not like its mid season, we can still recover although finding talent (proven) like Franks is not easy.

This version of the Sixers front office is at least trying to get good (lower risk at being crap) imports, can we give them some recognition at least?

Reply #897121 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last week

Imports are a dime a dozen


Oh are they now? What like All-NBL talents like Rayjon Tucker?

Imports certainly are a dime a dozen, proven NBL imports however are not and if this was sheer incompetence was happening with United you would be spitting chips, Franks is a better player than anyone on United's roster.

This is potentially a monumental fuckup by the Sixers, throwing away the Terrance Ferguson $400k buyout money, the Mitch Creek saga, the Isaac Humphries disaster, the abysmal JVG years and now finally the glint of hope this season landing Franks & Cleveland and bang just like that before a game is played all over already.

Reply #897122 | Report this post


LV  
Last week

The real question is how much $$$ they were paying Franks

If it was serious dollars, they'll find another serious import

Just cos Franks was good for Brisbane doesn't mean it'll be replicated in Adelaide. Just like Scottie Hopson's NZ form wasn't repeated in Melbourne. Or Dusty Hannahs G League 20ppg wasn't repeated in Adelaide

Imports are only moderately predictable and is not just about the league. Predictability depends on coach and fit too.

Reply #897123 | Report this post


Sir_Bastian  
Last week

Until things are confirmed, lets just relax a bit instead of burning the house down with some of these comments. Sheeeesh

Reply #897124 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last week

Zodiac,

I am simply saying that when you lose an import, there is an opportunity for a like for like replacement you don't get when you lose a quality local. I guess there was no relevance to say that, but maybe just reflected a glass half full approach to the news. I am not defending Adelaide if it's agreed they may have made another laughable error. I simply don't know in relation to clauses for imports.

You say that proven players don't grow on trees, but that doesn't mean they can't or won't replace him with an another import. There's so many US basketballers looking for an opportunity in the world, that I am almost tempted to say that yes they do grow on trees. Some NBL teams haven't even signed all their imports yet. Adelaide is one of them. So if it's a question of lateness, then by that logic any team who hasn't signed an import has missed out on some decent also.

I didn't say Franks wasn't a good rebounder. I hope they don't lose Franks also, but there is concerns about how he and DJ will work together being two scoring types who aren't known for playing defence.

Shano76, I don't really see why Adelaide would look to save money when there has been an intention to compete this season. Like I say, Franks isn't taking the money with him. Just because he might be gone, it doesn't need to reverse the clubs drive towards trying to win a championship. Supposedly they plan to sign three imports anyway. I don't see any logic in thinking that because Franks might be gone, they can't or won't replace him and finish off the roster as planned. If it's just mistrust in the club, then fair enough.

Reply #897125 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last week

Sir_Bastian, agreed.

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Zodiac  
Last week

Just cos Franks was good for Brisbane doesn't mean it'll be replicated in Adelaide.


Honestly do you just say silly shit for the hell of it? Last night you were penciling in Rayjon Tucker for All-NBL honours before he's even set foot on an NBL court and now a proven star import in the NBL like Franks a guy that averaged 18 and 9 at 49% at the Bullets might just drop right off?

Imports are only moderately predictable and is not just about the league.


Unless they play for the team you support than they're going to be superstars. Franks is proven, Tucker is unproven.

Reply #897127 | Report this post


KET  
Last week

Well fek.

Reply #897128 | Report this post


KET  
Last week

The grand problem 36ers have MasterChief is they're atrocious at bringing new imports in.

That’s why they had to go and steal from other clubs.

Reply #897130 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last week

You can still have expectations for how an import might go based off his resume.

Now that I think about it more, there's nothing uncommon about a Euro league clause is there? Top Australian players have them don't they?

Reply #897131 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last week

KET, well they better get better at it then.

Reply #897132 | Report this post


LV  
Last week

[Franks is proven, Tucker is unproven.]

Was Cedric Jackson proven?

I'd say One of the all time greats of the NBL was about as "proven" as you can be.

Completely tanked at United.

Casper Ware and Josh Boone- 2 guys who had never played NBL, both dominated for United and one of them (Boone) wasn't far removed from a 2 or 3 year stretch where he barely played

Franks was proven for Brisbane under James Duncan

He wasn't proven in Adelaide under CJ Bruton and alongside another high scoring Big man in DJ

Reply #897133 | Report this post


LV  
Last week

[Now that I think about it more, there's nothing uncommon about a Euro league clause is there?]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ6Vop92NX8

Trey Kell has Euro and China out clauses

Reply #897134 | Report this post


KET  
Last week

How many years have we been saying that, MC?

Reply #897135 | Report this post


Dunkman  
Last week

It clearly shows that the nbl needs more money in it, the top 7 or 8 leagues in Europe just have more money, then add Japan and China, it's hard to compete.

Reply #897136 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last week

Was Cedric Jackson proven?


Yes, to a degree. He played in a period when BA was running the league on a shoestring budget the talent levels were low, Tom Abercrombie won GF MVP on one of those Breakers championship teams averaging 11 & 7. Jackson had some big holes in his game that the Breakers system was able to paper over he couldn't shoot and was one of the worst FT shooters we've ever seen in the NBL.

When everyone was singing his praises at the NZB I was one that said he would likely get exposed a bit if he ever went to another team but must admit I didn't think he would be as bad as he was at United and the Hawks.

He wasn't proven in Adelaide under CJ Bruton and alongside another high scoring Big man in DJ


Franks would've been 'the man' on the team with the offence going through him first and if DJ didn't like it no doubt he would've found himself on the bench.



Reply #897137 | Report this post


Jonno  
Last week

Whilst its not ideal to lose Franks a proven NBL star who would have most likely been awesome in Adelaide, its not the end of the world.



Timing wise actually isnt bad at all, as over the next 4-8 weeks guys who are fringe NBA and currently in the mix for a 2 way or a camp spot will become available.

It would mean we have around 500k and a import spot to replace him.

Which should be enough to find someone with an equivalent resume and likely to do well. Franks averaged 15p 6r in the G league and had a little bit of NBA time, so thats the type of player you would be looking for and likely be able to find and afford.

Whilst their are failures, most imports with good G league stats and some NBA or Euroleague experience generally do well in the NBL.

People also need to realise if you do not give him the out clause he most likely doesnt sign at all, most top end players in the NBL would have these clauses, its a risk for the clubs, but cant be prevented.

For Franks you cant blame him, if Euroleague comes calling you gotta go.

Either way Adelaide is going to have a roster something like

Johnson/Sotto/Local big (Deng Acouth)
Import (Franks)/Galloway
Cleveland/Harris
McCarron/Drmic
Import (Craig Randall)/Dech

To me that on paper is the best roster we have had since atleast 2018 and should be well and truly in the playoffs mix.

Reply #897139 | Report this post


LV  
Last week

Well said Jonno

Not ideal but Franks much easier to replace than McCarron, DJ or Dech

Reply #897140 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last week

why on Earth would the Sixers have allowed him to have a Euro out clause
Shouldn't be giving Euro out clauses,
Good luck signing any half-decent players without a Euro out.


I don't understand what the people in this thread treating this as a mistake by the 36ers expected them to do. They had two options:
1. Sign Franks with a Euro out.
2. Not sign Franks at all.

"Sign Franks with no out clauses" was not an option that was ever on the table. I would wager that the vast majority of starters in the NBL have out clauses, and anyone of any quality signing that early in the off-season absolutely does.

Taking option two is just a guarantee of being exactly where they are now, if he has indeed exercised his Euro out. Why not take the chance?

Reply #897141 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last week

KET, agreed, but not always black and white. I think it's a combination of having a pretty strong local core for a long time and an emphasis on role playing imports in recent times. So overall, I don't think Adelaide have been that deprived of talent. So it depends what we mean by good, I'd say.

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Anonymightymouse  
Last week

What's interesting is how late the Euro out clause is running. Only eight weeks from the start of the season, you'd think the deadline for the clause would be very near.

Also, what's happened to Zodiac? I feel like an imposter has taken over that name who is nothing at all like their predecessor!

Reply #897149 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Last week

koberulz, unfortunately Zodiac and others don't understand how contract for high profile players work.

"It's better to lose the best signing we've made in years than lose any of our locals?"

He is not even the best signing the Sixers made this off season.

"a proven star import"

Can you tell me which All NBL team this Star made last season?

Reply #897150 | Report this post


Uncle Dre  
Last week

Maybe Joey was right about Kelly being a tight-ass. Looks to have opened wallet, but when tested, had gone cheap option again.

Reply #897151 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last week

Also, what's happened to Zodiac? I feel like an imposter has taken over that name who is nothing at all like their predecessor!

Huh? Nothing has changed with him.

Reply #897153 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last week

Maybe Joey was right about Kelly being a tight-ass. Looks to have opened wallet, but when tested, had gone cheap option again.
How does any of this relate to money?

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KET  
Last week

Adelaide were right to target Franks and give a euro-out.

It's good for Franks to have euro league opportunity just not good for Adelaide. Just how it is.

For 36ers, it’s just unfortunate to lose a proven NBL star and now have to find someone new to bring in, especially when they have a terrible track record of finding new imports (lately).

Reply #897157 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last week

Two stud imports and a serviceable local big and they can challenge.

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Fugazi88  
Last week

But are they gaining Craig Randall II?? His G league stats are phenomenal

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Master Chief  
Last week

If the Munford link was true, it seems like Adelaide were always going hard at three quality imports.

Whether or not the prospect of losing Franks has upped their spending to get someone like Randall, I'm not sure. But I don't think Munford would have been cheap, so it would make sense they are prepared to spend on both imports.

Apologies if that's not what you meant by 'gaining'. I just see them as separate signings still if Franks is gone. If.

Reply #897165 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last week

A couple of things, in my 30 years following the NBL I've never heard of an import getting a Euro out clause, NBA out clauses sure and both Euro & NBA out clauses for locals yes but I've never heard of an import getting one.

Secondly again in my 30 years following the NBL I can't recall this situation ever happening where an import has signed with an NBL team and then walked out on it and signed with a team in Europe. The closest thing to it I can think of was in-season, which is worse obviously when an import (Perrin Buford maybe?) asked the Bullets to release him so he could go and sign a better deal in Europe and moped about on court for a few games until they acquiesced.

Under no circumstances should the Sixers have entertained the idea of signing Franks if a Euro out-clause had to be included. The 2 year deal of security should've been more than adequate to keep him happy. What the hell is the point of signing an import and then allowing him to continue to shop himself around all off-season and just cross your fingers and hope the guy turns up to training camp?

Of course he's going to eventually find a better offer in Europe, he could earn twice the amount over there, it defeats the point of singing him in the first place. The imports that fall into the NBL's orbit are here for a reason not for the fun of it because they can't get better offers at that specific point of time.

This whole thing strikes me as a bit of a PR stunt cooked up between the Sixers and his agent allowing us to use Franks' name throughout the off-season to sell season tickets even though he was likely never going to step on the court for us. Supposedly Franks and Cleveland have the same agent which likely played a big part in us being able to lure both here so chances are Cleveland probably has a Euro out clause too and might find a better offer before the season too.

Reply #897167 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Last week

Zodiac,

I don't think it's about shopping around. I think it's about allowing opportunity. A stint in the Euro League might be the equivalent of the NBA for some professional players, and how could they say no the money difference.

I don't think you're wrong to question a clause, but has it really been a major issue for NBL teams? I am certain that lots of guys have out clauses in contracts that we don't know about it because it was never likely they ever needed to be used. I am sure there are also lots of imports who have chosen Australia over Europe for many reasons and don't want to explore Euro options at that time.

I think the big difference is that in the past, high quality imports have left the league behind after a dominant display. I think now imports seem to be staying longer for a variety of reasons. Franks might not have had an opportunity earlier in the off season but now he does. Like I say, I am sure there are many out clauses we don't even know about because they don't need to be used.

PR stunt? Yeah, or its as straightforward as Franks getting a surprising offer he can't refuse and the unlikely scenario of an out clause has come into play. I think this is a symptom of the mistrust some fans seem to have.

Reply #897168 | Report this post


Sebastian  
Last week

Zodiac you may have followed the NBL for 30 years but you have no idea about their contracts or how one is constructed.

Reply #897169 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last week

I've never heard of an import getting one.
Just because you've never heard of one being used doesn't mean they didn't exist. Or even that they haven't actually been used; one was used by an Adelaide import three whole years ago.

Secondly again in my 30 years following the NBL I can't recall this situation ever happening where an import has signed with an NBL team and then walked out on it and signed with a team in Europe.
Primarily because for 90% of the league's history any import that had a chance in hell of being signed in Europe wouldn't even pick up the phone if an NBL team called.

The league is attracting better talent. This is what happens as a result.

Under no circumstances should the Sixers have entertained the idea of signing Franks if a Euro out-clause had to be included.
This is daft.

"Sign Franks without the Euro out" was not an option. Euro outs are way more common than you seem to think.

What the hell is the point of signing an import and then allowing him to continue to shop himself around all off-season and just cross your fingers and hope the guy turns up to training camp?
So they should have done what, exactly? Just not sign any players? That's the alternative here.

chances are Cleveland probably has a Euro out clause too
Of course he does, he signed in June. Nobody is signing in June without an out clause, it's too early.

Reply #897171 | Report this post


KET  
Last week

Yeah I don't see the fuss here in terms of 36ers signing Franks with the various clauses.

If there’s a Euroleague opportunity, if there’s an NBA opportunity, can’t begrudge a player having clauses for that or an NBL club allowing it in order to sign high quality talent.

Newley kind of went that way - signed with 36ers but never played as drafted by Rockets and assigned to Europe.

If Franks leaves, it’ll pull 36ers down a fairly big notch, with the opportunity to get back up there if they hit their last two imports out of the park.

Reply #897175 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last week

"Primarily because for 90% of the league's history any import that had a chance in hell of being signed in Europe wouldn't even pick up the phone if an NBL team called."

This isn't true. Imports have been coming and going between the NBL and quality NBL leagues for a long time now.

Reply #897193 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last week

*quality European leagues

Reply #897196 | Report this post


LV  
Last week

What is a "Europe" out clause anyway?

There's plenty of good Euro leagues and plenty of poor ones

Is it short hand for Euroleague teams

Reply #897197 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Earlier this week

It would depend on what's negotiated. I would be surprised if it was just any European team, because Adelaide would have outbid a number of them to get his services in the first place. I would imagine it would have to be a certain level team.

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KET  
Earlier this week

In this case if it's Euroleague, fair play

Reply #897204 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Earlier this week

Agreed. I think allowing NBA and Euroleague out clauses would be pretty common.

Reply #897206 | Report this post


Fairsy  
Earlier this week

He is still being followed by Craig Randall II on Insta so he might not be gone yet

Reply #897212 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this week

It would depend on what's negotiated.
I would imagine it specifies leagues, minimum salary and a buyout figure. Maybe just the last two.

Reply #897215 | Report this post


Hendo8888  
Earlier this week

So is there any truth to this, or do we still have Franks?

Reply #897262 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this week

36ers supposedly denied this.

But The Advertiser/Fox Sports is traditionally less accurate than Santamaria.....

Here's hoping he’s staying!

Reply #897265 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Earlier this week

I don't think Santamaria said he was leaving, just that he has an out clause.

Reply #897269 | Report this post


Beantown  
Earlier this week

Technically it was Cam Luke, not Santamaria I think. I heard it on their Free Agency podcast on 5th August here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M86LWK_tuPA

Its at about 7:55. They discussed a tweet Cam Luke made saying: "Is the lure of massive international $$ about to throw a spanner in the preseason hard work of a NBL team?"

Cam Luke said he was talking to "one of our foreign correspondents this morning" (presumably 5th August) and said that he was looking forward to seeing Adelaide at the Blitz.

Foreign correspondents replies: "he is hearing that Franks has a couple of really big offers from Europe and 'the question has been asked'..."

Cam also says he "has no idea" if Franks has an out clause, but then Santamaria says he'd heard in Vegas that Franks had Euroleague interest and that he DOES have an out clause. Is Santa right?

So when Cam says "the question has been asked", does he mean that a Euroleague team has asked Adelaide if they will release him OR what it would cost to release him? Or, that Franks has asked the Sixers if they will release him?

If these types of questions are being asked, perhaps it is not as simple as Franks just having an out clause? Perhaps the Sixers have some say, or there is some compensation figure if he uses a Euro out clause?

Reply #897273 | Report this post


Master Chief  
Earlier this week

I guess we'll know when we know.

Reply #897285 | Report this post




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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 9:24 pm, Fri 12 Aug 2022 | Posts: 925,872 | Last 7 days: 464