People are interested in who makes teams & they are always going to have an opinion. Like it or not sledging is part of the game of basketball ask any player or coach as to what gets said out on the courts. As for protecting little Johnny or Jane from hurtful comments ask them first the sort of rot they give other players. I think you will find sometimes its helpful for a little critisism to bring some of these prima donnas back down to earth. And yes team lists would be good.
"only lost 1 game to an SA team as top age U/12, U/14 and U/16's" - being pedantic, but I think you will find that it is more than that...
Having said that, why wouldn't you choose the most players from the best side by far. Add some shooters and boys that play with the passion of the underdog and it will be a good team. :-)
Actually they have only lost once to an SA team as top age U/12, U/14's and U/16's. That is a FACT.
Pegs what are your accomplishments as a coach or players. Please feel free to post them on this forum. Otherwise IMO you are somebody who know's nothing about what it takes to win a State level.
All the boys who have made the team have done well. Those that missed out are probably very unfortunate and hopefully will continue to imporve and make future state teams.
My memory isn't very good, but I thought Sturt lost the Winter grand final in U/12s (could have won but I think #44 or #14 missed an open layup near the end of the game...) and they lost to Norwood in about June / July 2002. Were there no losses since then? Results in U/12s is really irrelevant now anyway. And I suppose being correct doesn't matter to the arguement either...
You correctly point out that I know nothing about how to win at State level - but then how many in SA actually do? :-P
Pegs, you're memory is actually VERY good!
This team lost to Westies this season (and it was the West big out, not one of the Sturt bigs), West played awesome that game, they were the better team that night.
They did also (I'm pretty sure) lose the U12 Winter GF to West, and it was I think double-OT (definitely at least OT).
As for a loss to Norwood, I'm not sure, don't remember that far back, but it is not impossible.
There were no losses in U14s.
"Results in U/12s is really irrelevant now anyway. And I suppose being correct doesn't matter to the arguement either..."
True, and on this forum - also true....
Considering the sturt(sa metro) team almost beat the sandringham(vic metro) team at easter, they should be a big chance this year!!
Have tough pool with Vic Country, NSW Country, Qld South and New Zealand in it but those sturst boys don't know how to lose!!
The SA Metro boys must be looking the goods this year with the Sturt boys well represented.
Does anyone else get rated for 16 Nationas ? Vic Cntry very good I hear and NSW Country and Metro supposed to be good also. WA and Vic Metro always around the mark, all makes for an exciting Nationals in a month or so.
Why dumb !!!!
Any coach worth their salt studies players from different clubs prior to playing them.
Many teams travel to Norwood tournament and tape games, travel to Sydney to play clubs and tape games, Also to Qld to watch games or play in tournaments. I know coaches in all States do this, maybe you think it is dumb, but I think it is just the general rule of thumb.
If Sturt have 6 players and could have had 9 according to one scribe, then you would expect them to be failry decent right ?
Having seen them in games, they look pretty good, so one would make the assumption that SA have a good chance or a better chance than the last few years to medal.
Next year will be no different with the Sturt group taking out the U/14 Nationals last year, one would expect them to be good or at least be around the mark.
Not so dumb !!!!
No body from SA travels to Sydney or QLD to tape game. If you can name one please do!
The comment was made about somebody who said that they think SA is a medalchance even though they have NOT seen the opposition. That is what I would consider to be a dunb comment!
And having seen them in games in sA means nothing. It is a lopsided competition. I am sure that a team has been tearing it up in WA as well. And might have several State players for the WA team. Does this mean that they will do well? Same with some team from from Sydney. Southern Districts from Quwwnsland have about 7 guys and would therefore be killing it in their comp. Does that mean that they will do well at State?
It's like comparing apples with oranges.
Here is the situation, all I was doing was opening a discussion with people who may like to talk about 16 Nationals,for the last however many years, people have been saying who will beat the vics, our ( SA ) side struggles, well there are good players in SA and they have a group that should be a medal chance if everyone stays healthy and so do NSW and VIc and WA. Qld have made progress and now we have a legit competition where coaches have a chance to medal with their group.
It is not about How do you know or we don't do this or no one here watches Qld teams, it is about a discussion to talk about a possible chance at being better than the past few years for some of these States other than VIC
If ypou do not agree, no problems here just prompting discussion.
the only way the state team will work is everyone needs to stop talkiing about who is the tallest or the best shooters and start to work together. The coach has picked 10 kids that need to work together as one not as 10 different kids. It will take all 10 to win not one. Good luck to all teams.
Have seen the Vic Metro U16 Boys play a practice match. Very good group, all 10 could start.
Metro girls are huge and very strong as well.
Looking like Vic Metro double.
Would say they are determined to get the double again after Vic Country knocked off their boys last year!!
What makes you think its a first for Country to beat Metro? U16 Boys beat Metro by 25pts in the crossover at Nationals in Tas 2003. Then by about 16pts in a game before the 36ers same year. 2002 U16 Country boys won Silver at the Nationals. But its nice to see the metro teams being called Metro and not State.
I was talking about State Metro 16 girls....it will be a long trip for the coach...they are not big at all. I saw them on the weekend play State Country....not good too many individuals....State Country will go very well ending up higher than Metro...16 points was a disgrace. Go Country....maybe now they may look at the girls in Metro and realise they have some pretenders who look good, play well against lower teams and when the pressure is on GO MISSING.
84594 there is no State Basketball until U20 before then it is Metro and Country. The only people who think otherwise are from SA Metro, some are only fooling themselves into thinking they are more important than country. The powers that be should but Metro on their uniforms like every other State and get over themselves.
Talk about an inferiority complex...
You always compare yourselves to Metro, can name the occasions you beat Metro etc. If your goal is simply to compete with Metro, well done, this year you have done it (and more). If your goal (like most Metro teams) is to compete with the powerhouses from Vic, NSW etc, you wouldn't care when you last beat Metro or what's on who's uniform.
But it's all good, LITTLE BROTHER....
An inferiority complex! to whom.
Country don't go around saying they are something they aren't and if some Metro people didn't blow their own bags this topic wouldn't have even come up. Some people are pretty quick to put Country down. Their the ones with the complex! Its a matter of making themselves feel better by talking others down. The sad part about it is I'm pretty sure its not even kids but adults. The majority of kids from both teams seem to get on well. Play together one day, against each other the next no problems. All I want to see is equal credit to all players who make these teams and equal oppurtunities. It take a lot of work to get to this standard and I hope all the SA teams do well but the sooner some people can see this the better it will be for Basketball in SA. Anything can happen at the Nationals.
Country don't go around saying they are something they aren't
No, they just whine about it.
some Metro people didn't blow their own bags this topic wouldn't have even come up
Um, this topic came up by someone asked who won a practise match - one that country won! Hardly call that "blowing their own bags". The following though may considered country "blowing their own bags"..
U16 Boys beat Metro by 25pts in the crossover at Nationals in Tas 2003. Then by about 16pts in a game before the 36ers same year. 2002 U16 Country boys won Silver at the Nationals.
making themselves feel better by talking others down
Then it must have been some other "Kal" who had a go at the Metro coach...
From what I've heard about the Metro coaches behaviour on Sat I'm glad my child is country!
I'm sure your dig was for the betterment of Basketball in SA...
At no point did I whine. I didn't put Metro down simply stated facts. The only negative, was to the Metro U16 Coach. I wasn't there but he supposedly called the girls the "Biggest Mob of lazy B..... he'd ever coached" it was inappropriate and unnecessary. All I'm saying is we need to get on call things what they are and improve basketball in SA. The majority of these kids are putting in their best effort, they play because they love the game, very few will make a career out of the sport, 4 most it will be a fantastic experience that they will hopefully remember fondly. There can only be one winning team so lets keep it in perspective and encourage the kids in both teams.
Both teams have strengths and glaring weaknesses. Metro have no posts and country have no quality guards and unless country plan to take the relatives who umpired both their games at SASI, they are unlikely to be given the ride they appeared to get in those games in Ballarat. I conceived, carried and delivered in less time than country had the ball in the back court.
(Mod: Removed. Read the rules.) Country, however, need to overcome their coach. There's a widely held perception that Country coaches ,coaching in district, promote their pet country charges rather than do what's best for their district team. Then there's their high turn overs and weight of parental expectations.
It's ironic that the powerhouse of junior b'ball, Sturt is also the instrument of death to stronger metro teams. By going for the short term view of junior premierships and by stacking their teams with 5 and 6 country players they have denied the development of that same number of metro kids.
Perhaps sa country should field teams in district but then sa country would need to put its money where its mouth is rather than brag of its solvent state.
To be arguing about country finishing ahead of metro or vice versa is to take your eye off the ball. Both teams I hope , finish ahead of the pack.
I have to say the saying about all players should be orphans is true. The girls would be a lot better off if "parents" kept their noses out of it and simply let the coaches do their job.
In fact they should stick to their own backyard and forget about other teams if they have nothing positive to say. (I wonder if your daughter and team mates are impressed with your comments - I suspect not!
Kal I await with interest to see you drive the knife into the "country coach" when the wheels fall off (I hope they don't) but rest assured something normally goes belly up at some stage at the Nationals.
Instead of having cheap shots have you considered the results the 16's metro coach has achieved in past years - the team rarely under achieved and often over achieved.
Kal you might also consider the huge renumeration (NOT) the coaches receive for having the honour of spending countless hours coaching the girls at training as well as at the nationals. I suggest you chill out support YOUR team & forget the other stuff.
IP, what makes you think a metro or country coach would bother posting comments on this thread ?
I would suggest by Kal's comments the metro coach has more than enough problems and the country coach would be scratching his head wondering what he is going to do to avoid one of his parents.
It's about time someone was finally honest in this post...well done Mambo. (Mod: Removed. Read the rules.) What I have seen they are in for a real shock. By the way didnt they metro have a post player? (Mod: Removed. Read the rules.)
I wonder if the powers at be will finally take note of these types and finally act instead of pumping egos. Didnt the u 18 metro girls last year lose becasue of the very fact they couldn't control certain egos and he we are again..
Well done Mambo
* Metro have no posts
* Metro need to instil 'team' (Mod: Removed. Read the rules.)
I guess that Sturt are one of the clubs that do not discriminate on basis of residence.
I guess we see them all as kids with talent who want to improve. If we do our job of improving them as players and people, the "junior premierships" are a product of the development of kids.
Perhaps you should be keeping your eye on the ball. I am sure that the country guards and metro post players who are 13, 14 and 15 year old girls playing in those positions really need to have you having a go at them on the net.
Best of luck to all the players.
Well anon #85205.
I believe you do discriminate at Sturt... against city kids. You actively recruit country players and your recently returned U/14s victorious classic's girl team has 5 or 6 country players.
How does this help the development of city kids and how do you see this as improving kids who want to improve? A lot of city parents would love to know.
If you are so altruistic and want to help kids improve then improve the kids in div 2 who don't get the chance because of the country recruits.
Running 5 or 6 country kids in 14's and 16's simply weakens metro state, causes player loss and is short sighted.
I think its time to consider one or more of the following.
# zone country areas and spread the talent evenly.
# SA country run teams out of Sturt, North etc as country teams.
# Declare Mount Barker metro as it no longer is country and Mavericks play out of there in the local comp.25 minutes from the CBC is not country.
# Have no more than one country player per team.
Clearly the rules stopping clubs from running two div 1 teams has had unexpected ramifications and this may have to be revisited.
Sturt is a great club, great coaches in the main but flooding teams with country players will have a negative impact.
Mambo, no more than 1 country kid per team, fantastic idea, then parents that car pool not only get to drive to the city, but all around it as well. It would be pretty rare to get 1 country kid, generally they come in at least 2s or 3s, think about it, if you only have to drive that far once every 3 weeks its not as big a commitment as every week.
If SAC ran teams out of a club they would have to start their own, as it would be seen as favouring players for playing for "club x" come selection time, so I cant see them running teams out of any club.
Mt Barkers competition is run seperately to the Mavericks, and like other clubs, some live across the metro "border" and some across the country, all changing Mt Barker to Metro will do is shift the border, giving metro more players to chose from.
To kind of keep with the thread... good luck SA Country and SA Metro.
Ah, the great mambo,
How do Sturt exactly discriminate AGAINST Metro kids. We do not consider place of residence as a determining factor to membership in our club. Obviously if you were in charge of a club you would. That is called discrimination. What we try to do is called equal opportunity. All players have an equla chance of making it into the teams at Sturt.
Plus we also actively recruit city kids.
We run Aussie Hoops better than any other club, all local kids.
We run a local competition in conjunction with Forestville from which we have produced at least 1 player who will be in contention for a div 1 position next season. Again all local kids.
Our club see's div 2 as a great place to improve your basketball. That is why we use a rotating coach philosophy. Our div 2 players get div 1 level coaching. Obviously in our opinion, if you put div 2 level players in div 1 they don't improve. They get beaten badly and quit the sport, or go and play for another club, usually in div 2. You don't "develop" when you are not able to compete at that level.
And how does this help city kids improve? Well I guess that some people think that the competition they get at training, mixed with good coaching is better for them then playing Div 1. They could move to other clubs and do that you see. The rules are designed by people like you who think that it will happen! You might need to ask yourself why they do not? Why infact more kids move from some clubs where they are playing Div 1, to play Div 2.
We also feel that this will keep more players involved in the sport for longer periods of time. These kids that are playing in our lower divisions may improve enough to play div 1 in the future, as some do. But other will end up being div 1 coaches in 10 years time. Referee's, and have they children play for Sturt because they understand the benefits of playing in a competition which suit's their ability.
Now mambo, good to see that you are thinking of the best interested of the kids in your future plans.
#1 If a kids is zoned for a club that does not need them or want them. Are they just excluded from the competition? Excellent, tell kids like Brad Hill and Jacob Homes they can't play basketball. GO play football boys! I can see real benefits for the sport there.
#2 Why would SA country want to run teams out of North or Sturt? This makes absolutely no sence at all!
#3 Actually the South Australian sensis says that Mount Barker is a country reigon. But for area's like Heathfield you might have a good idea. Put it to country if you will.
#4 No more than 1 country player per team. What is there is more than 10 kids from the country that want to play in the competition. I think that you will find that in a number of grades you would be excluding kids from the sport again and losing them to netball and football. Something our sport really needs! (insert sarcasm here)
Good to see that you have an opinion mambo, but might be better to develop an understanding of something before you form an opion that you want to share with the world. I would think that the group of people who have just produced the best results in the history of the Classics might have a little better understnading of what is servicing the market than you!
And to all a good night!
Without trying to exhaust myself let me tell u if my kid didn't move from MAVS they would NOT be playing basketball!!! We made our own enquiries, local club did NOT recruit us, WE recruited THEM!!! AND THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT! MAVS don't give too hoots about their juniors. Recently someone else just left and said 'they wished they had left years ago'. You just don't realise the extent of what you missing until you GO. IT IS HUGE!
The current u/14 girls team at sturt has a larger number of country players , more than usual. They also happen to be the best 4 players in SA.
This only highlights the difference in this age group,and is really unusual.
to attract the country kids to your club you must build your "brand" as sturt has been doing for a while now.
The reason they are attacked by other clubs is they are a better prospect for talented players!!
The other clubs will lift in the next 12 months because they can clearly see the sturt model is working.
There will be changes at the good clubs to bridge the gap.
Sturt are doing better than any other club in Australia, and it is all good for our clubs who must rise to the standards they have set.
Indiana, yea and I am afraid it will not be your club.
They may make changes over the next 12 months to improve in the future (and we hope they do) but they have currently bottomed out on their actual results across the board as the state champs showed.
Forestville definately have some good talent in lower grades and the development league seems to be assisting them as well as Sturt.
Norwood are dicussing a similar model which could involve North(possibly).
Speakinmg to Travis Leaver over the weekend they are unhappy with their current situation and are changing systems.
North are filled with talent and only a couple of years away, plus the loss (possible) of Centrals will strengthen their recruiting area.
Talking to all the non sturt people they seem to be on the same page regarding changes (internally) to get back the gap.
(#85273) - obviously your really new to this forum. He's a few words of advice
(from the forum guidlines)
- Be aware, though, that generally people place more value in posts from someone using an alias or real name. If you used a name more people might read what you say, and some may even place some value on it.
- Don't talk about your club as 'we' and 'us' unless you actaully have a 'role' there. I'm sure your club wouldn't like some irate, quick trigger parent plastering their views on hoops under the guise of their clubs view.
Good to see that you have an opinion mambo, but might be better to develop an understanding of something before you form an opion that you want to share with the world.
- by trying to belittle other posters (some with more guts than you, by at least using a name), all you do is destroy any creditability in your posts.
you sound like many parents i speak to after they leave my club. You expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter, and don't realise how much hard work, and volunteering goes on.
It's only when you decide to leave the the club knows you were unhappy. Perhaps if you sort would approach your club in the first instance, any situation (your kid not getting picked in div 1, court time, etc) could be aired and sorted out.
That is quite hilarious!!
Everyone who knows basketball at this topic level knows who #85273 is, whether he puts his name there or not. And I can pretty much guarantee you:
a) he is not new to this forum
b) he has an official role at his club
Most who are involved in this topic of discussion also have a pretty reasonable idea who "Mambo" is (and how is someone posting as Mambo any different to anonymous? - it's only more relevant to me if they use their real name).
The anonymous poster has TONS of credibility in basketball - certainly more than most people on here, definitely more than you.
As for your reply to #85302, couldn't agree more.
(#86013) - another no-one trying to big-note themselves.
If you and (#85878) are so important, then put a name. My tip is you are has-been coaches, living out your wasted dreams in trying to push your kids.
Good luck to you.
Who's telling the jokes here ...
The anonymous poster has TONS of credibility in basketball
Yeah, that's what i think whenever there's an annoymous post! haha.
People who know me, know the way I post. I don't need an alias, which other people can copy to let people know who I am. You never know I might just use george the next time I post and give you a bad rep.
And I can use 'we' because I am a representitive of the most succesful club opperating currently in SA. After the June long weekend it might be possible to say the most successful club currently in Australia.
I love the way people like yourself try and hide behind the guidelines of the forum when you could be anybody. George is an alias which is just as non-descript as anon. You could be anybody just like me.
Well, if you want us to take you seriously, put up your basketball resume on your next post. I 'guarentee' I've got you covered. That I have been involved in most levels of basketball, including internationally with some success. If you want to argue credentials then give us yours because ritgh now nobdy knows who you are or waht your credentials are!
85273 - typical norwood post. Think you run the whole comp!
You're the one blowing up your ego here, how about you name your credinatials! oh that's right, because you've got none!
I hardly think a 3rd placing classes you as the most successful club in australia!
You could be anybody just like me.
don't you mean nobody? haha
Dear Prime Minister and cabinet#5273
Were you developing those players you recruited from the Mavericks (area)? Why recruit div 1 players at all if you are so good at development? Surely good coaches develop their 2's to become good players with exposure and coaching or are the short term trophies and glory your goal?
Is stacking your team full of country recruits (14s girls),in a weaker than normal year for the majority of teams, really any different for those team you play than ' playing div 2 players who get beaten badly?' Many would say not! You said you don't develop when you are unable to compete at div 1 level- your words.Is stacking a team of full of country recruits helping the other teams develop? This is having your cake and eating it too- catch 22, our div 2 kids can't cut it in div 1 but if we build a super team it will develop the other weaker teams. Sturt logic. There are 2 teams in Under 14 girls around the same mark with sturt slightly ahead and the rest are developing their squads. Using your logic, all the other teams need to recruit between 4 and 6 country kids and 'develop' the rest.
RE ZONING: If Hill and Holmes were zoned to a club which club was going to turn them away or which club was not going to develop their skills?- or are you suggesting only sturt possess the staff to make ball player? Zoning would stop super teams developing through poaching which it appears some clubs have perfected and encourage real development.Some may think you zone now by preferencing div 1 country recruits and turning others away.
Re Mount Barker being country. Yes technically but not geographically any longer. Mavericks may have been able to field competitive teams if certain clubs had not "recruited' players that Mavs developed and left it in tatters. Moreover Mavs more than any distict club
should lay claim to country recruits if as you say, they're
Re 1 country player per team. If as you suggest may happen, 10 or more players want to play then doesn't that add credence to my suggestion that SAC should field teams in district and run them out of district clubs that are zoned east west etc? But of course as you say, that makes no sense at all.
Re my lack of understanding of things basketball and my need to learn a lot more before I speak, thank you for your advice on my development but given the hypocrisy of your development policy I think I'll recruit some country advice in preference my dear old thing.
Can the ideas by all means, but don't ridicule the person in an attempt to silence them as it lessens you.I tend to think we need to have more debates on the rights and wrongs in BBall and to encourage more to have their say.Trying to be God is lonely and even tho your always right be more tolerant of us less fortunate.
Penultimately, I think its a little early to be bragging about you mighty U/14 girls team as world beaters. You took out the Easter tournament with an easier draw than you chief rival, a game less, and your country girls didnt play the SAPSASA Bball all day Friday like the city girls and in the classic they( you're girls ) were wonderful(genuine CONGRATULATIONS) but they had the softer draw. So perhaps there's more to unfold yet.
Lastly, on development. Both Norwood and North Adelaide U/14's girls have DEVELOPED enormously and are now not too far away. Congratulations to them and their developers.
night...night Prime Minister
Washed Up Anon
Correct me if I'm wrong but Sturt was in the BASA competition before Mavs and therefore these players use to play for sturt. Have a check of how many players use to play for sturt in your ABL team. Maybe check your last years team while your there. Or maybe the year before as well. I believe that the ones that were playing for sturt were playing due to a lack of district club in the hills. Therefore there was no poaching occurring. Once the team (Mavs) was created the players returned. to the mavs.
Let me tell u though, the sensible ones won't be heading back to Mavs! Until they give their juniiors some time and genuine growth development - forget it! Still cant believe people are saying clubs 'poach' them from Mavs? We don't get our monies worth, see just what we're missing, and wish we'd done it years ago!
I think the mavs kids suffer from country commitments prior to x-mas.
I know this is the time I use to catch the other clubs.
Some times in oct - dec they didnt train for two to 3 weeks at a time.
This is a structure that wont have a outcome of improvement.
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