Kingman
Years ago

The Challenge V's Pigs

Tomorrow night cellar dweller West Sydney are playing Adelaide at the Dome, the challenge I put to Phil Smyth is this.

If the team that you are responsible for is defeated by the bottom team at home then stand up and take it like a man and resign. At the end of the day you are the Head Coach and the one that should take the hit for this disappointing season. You have had your 6 weeks.

If you are a 36er fan and agree with me post agree

if you disagree then post disagree

lets see what support is out there.

Topic #9382 | Report this topic


Bully  
Years ago

disagree, he has brought so much to the club, lets not fire him after 1 bad season.

Reply #106468 | Report this post


Sturty6ers  
Years ago

I agree.

Reply #106469 | Report this post


Pacey  
Years ago

AGREE

Reply #106470 | Report this post


Sturty6ers  
Years ago

There has been more than one bad season!

Reply #106473 | Report this post


DrB  
Years ago

Agree

Reply #106474 | Report this post


PJ  
Years ago

Agree.

Reply #106476 | Report this post


Dr Bullshit  
Years ago

I hate to say it but...Agree.

Reply #106477 | Report this post


twenty four  
Years ago

Bully, what's considered a GOOD season? To me, it's making a run in the post-season. Two years in a row we have been knocked in the first game of the play-offs, when we had a good enough team to make at least the semi's.

To me, that's two bad seasons, and now we'll be lucky to make the play-offs at all. The NBL have a stupid play-offs system, I know, and we shouldn't have been knocked out after juust one game, but we are now into our third unsuccessful season in a row with Phil at the helm.

So unless we thump the Razors, I think Phil really needs to take a good look at himself and decide whether he is help or hurting the team.

Reply #106478 | Report this post


Mott the Hoople  
Years ago

Agree

Reply #106481 | Report this post


Carnie Wilson  
Years ago

there hasn't been a good season for awhile.

as mentioned elsewhere last season managed to squeak home in a few 1 @ 2 point games and managed to make it into the 8 to go straight out first round.

IMO Phil will never resign. He IMO finds it impossible to admit to mistakes, therefore would never
admit to the fact that he is in anyway responsible for the for the loss the bad season, etc. it will always be the travel, the refs, the flu, the injuries, the sun & moon not aligning but never, ever, anything to do with him or his coaching.

Reply #106482 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

disagree - what good will sacking a coach halfway through a season do?

Means they will get an interim coach (and assistant, coz Breheny would surely walk), who will be stuck with the same team as we have at the moment, therefore the same problems, therefore the same criticisms as what there are at the moment.

End of season, yes, I would have to say take a long hard look and consider if it is time for a new coach.

Reply #106485 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What is wrong with the team we have? The right coach could have this team right up there. Yogee either you are blind or Phil Smyths mum.

Reply #106488 | Report this post


Statman  
Years ago

Rather than challenging Smyth to resign how about we challenge him to do something different with the squad?

Get an outsider in to address the team before the game and bring a bit of fire and brimstone and passion into the locker room?

Get in Willies face and tell him he wasnt good enough in Brisbane

Throw a few expletives around when someone stuffs up a simple play!

If we lose let the team know it aint good enough with a full on training - make them realise he is serious about winning and the casual "oh well" attitude is no longer.

Get the team over to his place for a bbq and get on the piss....

anything but lets just not see more of the same old same old. Obviously things have got a bit stale in the camp and we need to shake it all up and try and rekindle a bit of fire!

Reply #106489 | Report this post


Mott the Hoople  
Years ago

Does anyone know if Ken Cole addressed the troops before the Brisbane home game?

Reply #106490 | Report this post


Ryno  
Years ago

Agree, give KB a shot!!!

Reply #106491 | Report this post


Pure Silk  
Years ago

DISAGREE BIG TIME !!! , You blokes have to start getting of Phil's back. He isnt the one slipping over / turning the ball over , making bad shot selections etc - Sure , he probably hasnt had the best start this year but the season isnt over by any means. It will be interesting to see once we get on a roll and see what the comments / baggings are like then - Talk about fairweather supporters..........
How about posting positive stuff and getting behind our side. We have been blessed with many championships in a relatively short period and you only have to look at other codes that havent won a flag for 40 years so I think all in all we are very lucky. So Lets Go 36ers C'mon Boys!!

Reply #106492 | Report this post


Jimmy The Snitch  
Years ago

Disagree

In the last 9 years there has been 5 (Westover (1), Goorjian (3), Joyce (1), Black (1) and Smyth (3) who have won a premiership.

Why would we want to go for an Ian Stacker who could not do it in Townsville and got the sack because he lost the respect of his players? Why would we go for Brendon Joyce who has not been able to win a premiership for Wollongong since we have won our last one, isn't that why we are firing Smyth because he has failed to achieve anything in the last 4 years?

Lets call it as we see shall we, Phil Smyth is not favoured around hear because he failed to recruit Brad Newly and Joe Ingles (who reneged on an agreement as well mind you) to the Adelaide 36ers program, in my option it has nothing to do with his laid back coaching style or his lack lustre training program that allegedly happens or even the bad season we are experiencing now but putting it simply he didn't give the respect to Newly or Ingles to recruit them to the Sixers program.

I completely disagree that he should be sacked as there are a lot worse option as coach out there and to gain a better coach you have to pay for it and Australian basketball is in no position financially to lure an American coach (why would any credentialed coach come out to Australia when the Dragons shafted Price like they did) hear.

Mal Hammerling needs to give him some ultimatums; either rebuild the squad by recruiting the type of player the program needs to be success or sign a performance based coaching contact that will give a bonus for winning the premiership and you can do it your way (2 years) he has to be give that respect. .

Newly and Ingles will both be out of the NBL with in 24 months (Europe or the NBA) so if they were sixers player, we would be in no better position than we were when Bradtke left in the early 1990's. We put all that work into a young recruit and have someone else benefit.

Reply #106496 | Report this post


Sturty6ers  
Years ago

Lets get Laurie Lawrence (Johns' Brother) or Sheeds in for a bit of rev up before the game......

Reply #106497 | Report this post


Sturty6ers  
Years ago

If the only issue was that Phil failed to recruit Ingles or Newley, people wouldn't be asking for his head.
The lack lustre team, no cohesion, constant rotation issues. Who does the Buck stop with?
Try giving KB a go it is not going to hurt.

Reply #106498 | Report this post


Bruce Samazan  
Years ago

Definitely agree!

Reply #106499 | Report this post


cLaRkY  
Years ago

Disagree - Phil should just try firing up a bit and showing some passion for the game and the club. If the coach starts to show passion and dedication, maybe the players will take notice and try to adapt to him and find the fire within themselves and motivate each other....

Reply #106501 | Report this post


DrB  
Years ago

Jimmy, totally agree with your views in reference to Stacker, but i do not agree with u using Joyce at the Hawks as an example, he constantly delievers them to the finals with a minimal budget. There are times when coaches need to go for a bit of fresh air.

In reference to motivation to get them out of a slump not a bad idea, but isnt that the coaches job??

Reply #106504 | Report this post


Jimmy The Snitch  
Years ago

Minimal budget it's not like the Sixer recruitment team have had an open cheque book and in no way have they been on easy street.

In the last 4 years I would back the Sixer record over the Wollongong Hawks any day of the week.

Reply #106508 | Report this post


DrB  
Years ago

Well the hawks have a better record over us. I think Joyce puts in more effort and passion than Phil.

Reply #106511 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Mott, the Academy guys got Ken Cole in to address the young players, but I don't believe that Phil got Ken in to address the 36ers at any point. Willing to be corrected if it did occur though.


Surely we won't lose to the Pigs? I mean, they've challenged a few teams recently, but after the recent losses, I think the 36ers will bounce back.

Reply #106513 | Report this post


DrB  
Years ago

Luck you do not gamble Jimmy, Hawks and 36 record over the last 4 seasons:

hawks :
02/03 18 12 4th lost semi final
03/04 25 8 2nd lost semi final
04/05 20 12 2nd lost Grand Final
05/06 19 13 3rd lost Quarter Final

36ers:
02/03 16 14 5th lost elimination final
03/04 14 19 8th lost elimination final
04/05 19 13 4th lost quarter final
05/06 19 13 4th lost quarter final

Hawks finished higher at the regular season and did better in the finals, Jimmy lucky you didnt have your house on it.



Reply #106514 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

DrB, turn in your betting account too - we lost in the elimination stage for all of the last four years.

Reference.

Reply #106517 | Report this post


DrB  
Years ago

Thanks Isaac, have you seen the nbl site http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=36ers_yearbyyear


Anyway i didnt start the bet its Jimmy, and hasnt he been quite! ha ha

Reply #106518 | Report this post


DrB  
Years ago

Jimmy are you there mate?? ha ha

Reply #106520 | Report this post


Jimmy The Snitch  
Years ago

I was incorrect and wrong in my judgement regarding the Hawks and Joyce's record of the last 4 years but thank you but you just proves another point as to why the Sixer should not get Joyce.

He has done a very good job in the regular season but filed to live up to the hype surround his teams performance when it matters. In the play offs (Isn't that a major reason why Smyth has to go?) his sides have gone missing in the finals and that is one of the contentious issues about Smyth's coaching.

You cannot have it both ways, by saying we are going to fire Phil Smyth because he has an underachieving record in the finals the last 4 years and then go and hire someone who has performed equally if not worse.

What is the objective to playing sport? To win a premiership but nether club has been able to obtain that goal in the last 4 years; Phil Smyth has been able to achieve that objective on a more resent basis over Brendon Joyce.

If Brendon Joyce was to coach the Adelaide 36ers, I would never go to a basketball game again.

Reply #106521 | Report this post


Mott the Hoople  
Years ago

Jeez Isaac, that was an opportunity lost you would think?

Reply #106522 | Report this post


Jimmy The Snitch  
Years ago

DBR  pipe down ha ha ha ha

Reply #106523 | Report this post


DrB  
Years ago

Me to Jimmy, me to i can not stand Joyce, but i can not put Joyce in the same class as Stacker. Joyce weather we hate him or not has been a great coach. I would think Joyce would never want to come to 36ers as well. Ha Ha .Thank God!

Reply #106524 | Report this post


philnaldo  
Years ago

Joyce only has a title because the referee called a non-existant foul and then Lowery got 3 of the kindest bounces on his free throws that I've ever seen, Joyce is a negative coach, steer clear.

Reply #106530 | Report this post


Kingman  
Years ago

Professional sport is a business and I am sure Mal didn't buy the 6ers to lose money. If the team continues to lose under the current coach you would think crowd numbers will decline and so will revenue. If no changes where made then next season some season ticket holders may not renew and instead of 4500 to 5000 crowd it could be 3000 to 3500 and that's a drop of 30% or so. A business taking a 30% loss from one year to the next is not going to be in business long. If however the fans seen the owners being productive and trying to resurrect a failing season they may be more inclined to support a coach trying to rebuild. I believe the time is now to make the hard decisions before more support slips away.

Reply #106531 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

It won't be an issue...Sixers by 21.
C'mon boys!!

Reply #106535 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Jimmy: "If Brendon Joyce was to coach the Adelaide 36ers, I would never go to a basketball game again."
OMG, I'm gonna call him right away!

Actually, I am happy not to have him here either. Have heard of a few players not liking his style.

Reply #106539 | Report this post


lockstock  
Years ago

hahaha philnado - spot on. not one bounce, not 2 bounces, but 3 for gods sake!!!

Reply #106543 | Report this post


DrB  
Years ago

Actually, I am happy not to have him here either. Have heard of a few players not liking his style.

Such as?

Reply #106545 | Report this post


DrB  
Years ago

Isacc is the nbl site incorrect http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s=36ers_yearbyyear

Reply #106547 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

How come no one has mentioned the fact every year the players are surveyed, the one coach they all say they want to play for is Smyth?

Surely players talk, and therefore coaches reputations are known...so if Smyth is such a bad coach, as a minority of 6er fans (and lets face it, if you total the people who post on here, and then factor it into the toal 6er seasocn ticker holder numbers, it IS a minority), why would so many players want to come here?

Yes, I can see validity in getting some new blood into the coaches seat and see what happens...but at the end of the day what could happen could be something worse than what is happening now.

I can see validity in keeping Smyth as well, albeit with some very clear expectations of what is required, and clear performance management. Boti's comment this morning about having to work under such a oppresive and mis guided regime for 4 years surely has to have some effect, and yes, the lack of direction for the club at the start of the season HAS to have had some impact on who we could sign, and the general atmosphere at the club.

With Mal now on board full time and actively managing his club, I would think there will be major changes, and hopefully those changes might re-energise Phil, so even I admit (and yes, I am a Smyth fan) is looking tired and looks like he might have lost the fire in the belly.

I am still standing by my original viewpoint of you cant pass judgement till the season is over, but there would need to be substantial improvement for me to be happy come seasons end.

I know most of you wont agree, but, like you, I am entitled to voice my opinion!

Reply #106552 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

DrB, if I thought it appropriate to name them, I would've.

Re the elimination/quarter final - actually, must've been a quarter final that I assumed was an elimination final as we were eliminated and it was our first final. Last season, the Taipans beat the Pirates on Feb 9 and then us on Feb 11. Year before, Bullets beat the Pirates on Feb 23 and then us on Feb 25. Both quarters.

I've fixed the 36ers site.

Reply #106556 | Report this post


PJ  
Years ago

yogee, very easy trainings is part of it.

Reply #106557 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

Not meaning to live in the past - but if very easy traiunings won us 3 champion ships - who is goign to complain?

As I have said, whilst I will NOT stick a knife in Phil's back, like so many others, I can also see the writing on the wall that change is nigh.

However with Hemmerling saying no one is safe, especially the coach - is that the reverse of when a club comes out and says "the coach has our full support" and sacks them a week later?

Reply #106568 | Report this post


TR  
Years ago

Sign me up to the 'agree' side of the fence.

Whilst Phil has been great I fear that maybe the it's time for a change. I'm not sure if the players are tuning out or what the story is but things just ain't working.

Our season is nearly doomed, and IMO I'd like to see a breath of fresh air. Why not give an up coming coach a run, start the process now for next season.

Whilst we are still sniff for the finals this year keep everything in place, but as soon as we are out then start the process of implementing new things.

Reply #106597 | Report this post


Mott the Hoople  
Years ago

Yogee, regarding your post 106552, from my limited knowledge of stats, I think you will find the posters on this forum are a representative sample rather than being the only ones thinking Phil has to go. That being the case, a two thirds majority of season ticket holders feel Phil is past his use-by-date.

Reply #106614 | Report this post


Dana  
Years ago

Sorry Mott...disagree with your assumption. You can't generalise statistics like that without some real data...such as a survey of 36ers season ticket holders who post on this site.
That's the trouble with this place, too many people think they KNOW what's actually happening.
What a load of @#%&*&^&^$#!!

Reply #106650 | Report this post


Dana  
Years ago

By the way Yogee, I don't know why people are so critical of your posts?? But I agree with alot of what you have said.
Isaac, I think sometimes you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder re Phil because Oscar isn't still here. It's only a feeling that I get sometimes, so I'm in no way saying that it is a fact. (before everyone accuses me of having my 'head in the sand'.)

Reply #106654 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Dana, Mott's generalisation is better than Yogee's generalisation (which is not based on any statistical method).

Also, not bothered that Oscar has moved - completely support and encouraged his decision at the time. He seems really happy where he is, so that's what counts.

Reply #106656 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yogee, firstly I will not identify myself as I am too close to the action. Your posts reek of blind loyalty and tainted with what I term 'print media conditioning'. You are irritating. Championships were won whilst breaking the salary cap. That is indisputable and before the chorus of 'prove it' chimes in, whilst not on the board at the time I have spoken to people who were and have admitted it. They have no reason to lie. Phil himself has stated that he looks forward to private ownership so that we can now be more creative in how players are paid. Are other teams doing this? Yes they are, but I find it disconcerting that a coach would look forward to this, rather than getting on with job with the cards he has been dealt at the moment. He doesn't seem to be doing this right now. A player has stated that Phil is now distancing himself from the team and it is now a 'it's all your fault' atmosphere at the moment. Did I speak to this player....yes.
Mal H is no fool and is the best thing to happen to the Sixers, he will make the right decision, knows the past, is currently working through who is rowing in his direction and who is in this for themselves. He will take no crap from the players and will be hands on.Will Phil's persona work on him ala Bernie Lewis....no.
Change is coming....


Reply #106661 | Report this post


ShaneD  
Years ago

Disagree - Review at end of the season.


ShaneD

Reply #106663 | Report this post


The Brad  
Years ago

To be honest I think our feild goal percentage is what's killing us. Now if that comes from a lack of offences or direction then this is a coaching issue. If it comes from simply bad shot selection then this is a player issue. Compare below our stats in FG% between two of the top teams and to of the bottom teams.

36ers- Maher- 38.3%
Farley- 38%
Mastro- 36%
Horvath- 50%
Wheeler- 42%
(Copeland- 38%, Cooper-45%)

Brisbane- Hill-36%
Bruton 41%
McKinnon- 56%
Dusty- 48%
Bradtke- 48%
(Ere- 50%, Boucher- 56%, Tregardh- 67%)

Melbourne- DMac- 47%
Tucker- 53%
Thomas- 50%
Hoare- 61%
Anstey- 40%
(Dench- 50%, Stiff- 59%, Corletto- 44%)

With the teams below us...
West Sydney- Bailey- 54%
Harvey- 43%
McGregor- 36%
Rush- 51%
Ya Ya Dia- 43%

Singapore- Helms- 43%
Davidson- 44%
Chandler- 39%
Knight- 50%
Melmeth- 49%
(Trahair- 34%, L Davidson- 48%)

We have 3 starters who are shooting in the 30's and another who would be in our first six or seven.
No other team in the league is that bad when it comes to their first five or even first seven!!!
No other team in the league shoots as bad as we do. And when we average only 98 points per game (3rd lowest in NBL) we can't afford to shoot at that rate.
Perth- 46%
Melbourne- 49%
Brisbane- 47%
Adelaide- 41%
To also give up 17 turnovers a game and only average 4.9 steals a game, this doesn't help us win games. We are known as an offensively minded team, so if we are not going to play defence, then we will struggle to win many games shooting at this percentage.

Reply #106666 | Report this post


Mott the Hoople  
Years ago

Dana, I don't see why the posters on here aren't a representative sample. All I did was add up the agree's and the disagree's in this thread (12:6) at the time and said two thirds think it's time for Phil to go. (Sahne D has since posted a disagree).

Reply #106683 | Report this post


flatshot  
Years ago

whilst i think the coaching is open to review there is a good chance that Razors could win this game as they have steadily improved after some team shattering results. Any team in this league who doesn't come prepared -fit, schooled, coached with last minute, last 20 secs and last 5 sec scenarios is likely to get cut down. The sixers could play well tonight, be well coached on the night and still lose. Review yes.....this 1 game challenge ..no not sensible.

Reply #106685 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

It is a generally recognised business principle in any customer service role that 10 people will complain about perceived bad service, whilst only 1 will compliment perceived satisfaction.

THAT is what I based my comment on.

It is also recognised in public debates, for example the tram extension....letters to the editor would suggest that the majority of people are against it, yet when surveys were conducted, it found a majority actually supported it.

In a nutshell, if people are unhappy they will make a noise, if they are happy they tend to stay quiet.


Reply #106719 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

As for "blind loyalty"...I beleive I said I can see both sides of the coin in relation to Smyth's future, and put forward my point of view for both sides.

I get labelled for "blind loyalty" and "living in the past" yet you want to harp back to salary cap issues. I am sure if you questioned MANY clubs board members, and offered immunity, I think you would find many of them would admit to breaking the cap.

I also KNOW, as I was told by the former CEO if the club (who's name we can't mention) that he would not break the cap, and would make every effort to keep the club well under the cap. If you are as close to the action as you say anon, you would know this to be the case as well. You would also then know how much this approach hampered recruiting.

Why should Phil NOT look forward to being able to "creatively" pay players. It puts the club on a level playing field with the other clubs that can do this now. Surely that is thinking forward???

I'm sorry my views arent expressed in the same way as yours, and you find that irritating. Why not take the time to talk to me at a game...you may be surprised, in a pleasant way.

Reply #106723 | Report this post


me  
Years ago

Disagree;

Phils coaching IMO is little different now..to how it was in our championship years. always laid back..expletives etc have never been a part of the game for him.

Why dont we go back and look at the forum from pre season, few people were happy with the side we have built. old, injury prone and not cohesive, therein lies our problems.

To me, Phil is still as good a coach as any in the league, if we are basing this on this seasons performance, I assume we will also sack Brett, as his year has not been up to his usual standard.

yes..this year doenst look promising, lets hope there are plans afoot for 07/08

Reply #106834 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

yogee, reckon the Wildcats pay their team creatively? I think they'd be under the cap and, well, have you looked at the ladder recently? Same with the Hawks and the Breakers have only had one bad loss.

I just see it as a bit of a cop-out.

Reply #106895 | Report this post


raytri  
Years ago

The game has been played, and the sixers have won in unconvincing fashion.

Phil is still a great coach, although Phil + Steve = 2 coaches.

The problems stem from player selection, notably offensive passengers, whose spots appear set in concrete and who he seems to feel must have good minutes, (usually with dire consequences). Maybe Phil has too much input into who is on the team, we could end up with the good old boys.

We pay to go to the ball game to see exciting players, at the peak of their prowess. Matt Sutton is such a player,isn't his inclusion like a breath of fresh air. How did he get a game when he does'nt play for Sturt?

Great to see Phil eventually putting players on and leaving them on when they are making an impact on the game. Makes a nice change.

Reply #106939 | Report this post




 

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