BSA please reschedule junior matches to Sunday. 36ers gives BSA clubs 100 free tickets each to give to their under 10s and 12s

Even every single so called "fair weather follower" better come out next week. The boys have done their part........time for the fans to step up and show up to the home game. Anything less than 7000 will be seen as pathetic!!!

Only a qtr way through the season, so just ease up. Even if u do beat perth, still think perth will beat any one in a three game series. See how they go, don't matter who wins next wk, i still think it will be perth adelaide gf this yr. Can't see other teams close out games like perth and adelaide do. Breakers will miss the finals this yr, they seem lost all over the court, may be bringing wilko back fired? Trueman and lazar would be hand see mika fouls out every game.

I'm a proud wildcats fan and I think this will be our biggest game to date. No doubt Adelaide are in great form and at home should start favourites.

Spoken like a fan who has been spoilt by almost thirty consecutive years of their team playing finals basketball. No need to be a killjoy, it has been four very long and trying seasons for Sixers fans.

May be add another 40mins to that 4yrs come friday, just saying it's a bit over the top just for one game. But i feel for u 36er fans, few games the ball bounced ure way, u could ezy been 2-5 so i would'nt be saying bring on perth. Just keep it down u havnt made the finals yet and may be u wont?

And the same could be said that Perth haven't made finals, after all they could lose Ennis and Knight and the rest of the starters to injuries this week, or just go on a Marty Clarke 10 game slide.

We really do need the stadium packed, and think it would be great if Dean and BSA could come to an agreement for juniors (the free tickets for under 10s/12s could be a great incentive). With a big and more importantly LOUD crowd I don't see why the boys aren't a good shot at putting Perth away and setting the rest of the season up.

This will be our first real test for the season, and will expose both teams weak links for them to work on, or even show if there is a defensive strategy that can shut down Ennis and the cats.

Expecting sportsbet to have the odds rather close for this game.

Sportsbet odds prediction: Perth $1.67, Adelaide $2.25.

By the way, I haven't caught as many sixers games as I would've liked, and I'm wondering about Jarrid Frye. From the games I've watched, he looks like a superstar when his number is called, yet his box score doesn't read as well as I had expected. How good is he compared with other imports? Also, apparently he's been nursing an injury? Major/minor?

Well, if Perth do drop this one, won't be any shame in it; not many visitors will come away from Adelaide with wins this year. The 36ers are showing great resilience when the game is on the line as well.

even in the Marty years games against Perth have been close and had upsets, seemed we would beat them at there court and they would beat us on ours,

either way these games are like showdowns form and ladder positions usually mean nothing, look at the last couple seasons we still managed to get wins against Perth and we were dead last....

and this year was only a 3pt loss and both sides down a starter

These are the games the kids must be able to see that play basketball.

This Friday In the Div 1
South v Sturt (I think we all know how that will end up)
North v Forestville
Woodville v West
Tigers v Norwood
Lions v Mavs

Can I propose a "double bye" round? It could help Forestville's ladder position, so BSA should support it. (yes, I have slapped myself because I am naughty)

Sixers should start favourites, IMO.

Why?

Two returning players v one, they've gone 6-1 since that game, in Adelaide this time, versus being in Perth where they got within 3pts. Traditional bogey teams.

Both sides have been extremely good in close/pressure situations. You could mount a reasonable case for 36ers favouritism.

As much as I wish the 36ers get up I think the Ennis Show will get the better of us. IMO Frye is the key to this game.

Clubs need to have income and they don't get it on Sunday at 8.30am till 1

The under 10 play Saturday, under12/14 Div 3 play Saturday, u16div3 play Thursday and u23 play Tuesday

Give them a $10 entry to top level concourse at AA and you fill it

I don't think a lot of Div1 /2 kids know a sixer

Ervin v Martin (could go either way)
Gibson v Beal (Beal)
Frye v Ennis (Ennis easily)
Petrie v Redhage (redhage but don't count out Petrie)
Johnson v Jervis (Johnson)

Burdon/u'u v Cadee/Teys (even)
Creek v Hire (Creek)
Anthony v Wagstaff (Wagstaff just)
Schenscher v Knight ( a healthy Knight would win this one but right now the edge goes to Luke)
If Ennis has a night out expect a cats win but this game could come down to key matchups Ervin v Martin and Petrie v Redhage. Potential grand finalists should be a great game

The clubs made money when Fridays where changed 10 years ago before they had the bars, what's different now?

Home court advantage. Big consideration, especially now in Adelaide.

Isaac, it will depend on how Perth and Matt Knight go against Wollongong. If they win by the margin they should, they'll be favorites.

Also, can I get an answer regarding Frye?

Thanks, anon. I thought he must've had something wrong with him because he seems a massive talent.

By the end of the season, I think the 6ers will be by far the hardest team to stop. Cats are peaking to early, and Gleason isnt all that good a coach. Adelaide havent put 4 quarters together yet. When they do its going to be nasty. Ive seen bad 6ers teams over the years and ive seen the very best, this team has the potential to blow the competition wide open.

Gibson and Ervin beat Beal and Martin every day of the week. Just read that and had to make it clear. Ennis is the only guy who can dominate, from Perth.

From what I hear, a bunch of tickets are being given out at schools this week. Hopefully they make use of them and pack the place out

Kobe24, don't think u have seen martin play! Gibbo is a talent, u can't tell me he is a better defender? If marto keeps nailing the 3 then no contest. U won a couple games in nz and now ure world beaters? Never had ennis past 4yrs 3gf won one, its a team game and i bet u ervin will win u games but he will cost u few 2. Every yr bag perth because they are that good and its sad giving free tickets to fill the gym

Ill take Ervin and Gibbo in my back court every single day of the week. Gibbo is a tough franchise PG, Martin is good, not great. And not dogging the Cats, they are the team to beat, I just feel come finals time, the 36ers will be the team to beat.

Martin has won more games for the wildcats this season than Beale, Redhage or Ennis... Yes he needed the others but without him they would be starved of so many opportunities.

Can someone give a crowd prediction as 7000 sounds terrible for a papered event... It should be absolutely jam packed and I don't know what's wrong with Adelaide if they don't (local games is a BS excuse, you want to attend then you find a way)

I think Wildcats by 5 but no team will feel comfortable throughout and 7500 to attend

I don't know how any apparently functional human being looks at Damo, from an NBL perspective, and says "good not great". Just no, mate.

Gibbo>Martin

All day, everyday.on paper the 6ers are the best team in the league. Wait 3 months till we gel!

Hahahahahahahaha

Put it this way. Swap Gibbo and Martin around on their current teams and the Sixers improve while Perth wouldn't be on top.

I like both players, but I'd build around Gibson before Martin. But could go with either.

Frye isn't taking the three which means defenders have started sagging off and waiting for him. It's reduced his effectiveness. He's still unorthodox and a surprisingly good finisher.

I wouldn't build around either of them but Marto is going to complement your team more than Gibbo.

Something to consider for those constantly calling on junior games to be moved from Friday night to Sunday when the 36ers play at home on a Friday....

Some (or even a lot) of these kids probably don't just play basketball, they would have other sports on Sunday's such as cricket or soccer at this time of the year. Moving junior games to a Sunday (or even a Saturday which would clash with some school sports) isn't as easy as it sounds. Other commitments have to be taken into consideration, and its not just the players. Parents and those who volunteer their time on a Friday might not be able to do so on a Sunday.

Are junior district trainings not saved for Sunday mornings?

While only yesterday I got the impression of the hawks being able to win it , but for the turnovers and missed shots at the end ,while Perth went down and scored.
Good if they under rate J.Frye.


( Good to see the Darren Ng story on CH9News Saturday)

^ Didn't get that impression tbh, always felt the Wildcats would pull away and close it out.

Situation, I think Gibbo is more versatile (comfortable in both guard spots), isn't without his own defensive abilities and has runs on the board with past championships. Grab him as a key player and then you can go for the best guard you can otherwise get without getting hung up on playmaking ability.

I think Martin is the better player, but not by much. His defence and playmaking are better, and at times he can control an entire game. For me, Gibbo cant have that impact even though he is a very good player.

Shane Heal has said that he wants the Wildcats to be undefeated for when he takes us on this sunday, so he would appreciate it if the 36ers would let us get the W here. I hope Adelaide are thoughtful enough to let this work :)

Good of the league and all that.

I think D. Martin makes everyone around him better. Gibson doesn't.

^ I don't see how that could be the case, I was reliably informed further up in this thread that the Wildcats are in fact bridesmaids when it comes to titles.

Despite, you know, all the titles.

Perth Wildcats.

31 years in the league, 27 of them in the playoffs, equating to a 87% playoff rate.

In that time 10 Grand Finals appearences, winning 5. Yes Bridesmaid five times.

In the last 3 years 2 GF and 1 SF appearance.


Adelaide 36'ers.

Also 31 years in the league, 21 of them in the playoffs, equating to a 68% playoff rate.

In that time 6 Grand Finals appearences, winning 4.

In the last 3 years, 2nd last and 2 Wooden Spoons.

Anon'292.....are you sure you want to talk sh!t about the Wildcats?

Perhaps a comparison with the Hobart Tassie Devils would be a more comfortable comparison?

I am super pumped for this game and this forum has certainly helped.

I think Marto is a better defender than DMAC and Darren Lucas that were incredible but I think it's too hard to compare him to Terry Dozier who was amazing to watch but I will put Damo past Mike Kelly (thinking his shutting down of Gaze G3 1996 grand final as his masterpiece). If Marto can score 10 points a game and dish out atleast 5 assists then I can't imagine how Perth aren't going to compete let alone win... When he has that spread surely Perth win far more than they lose

As much as I'd like to say the 36ers will win, I have a feeling Perth will get it. Adelaide shouldn't be letting games get so close, and I don't think we can afford to do the same thing against the Wildcats.

Great to see - 61 posts in this thread and we are still three days out from tip off! I hope that enthusiasm translates to a massive crowd and a great game.

I dont think you can seperate Gibbo and Martin unless Martin can prove he can consistently knock down the 3 ball. If he can do that then Martin may ever slightly get the nod. Then again, Gibbo is more versatile and can play both guard positions and the Boomers appear to think Gibbo has the edge over Martin?

According to some Perth fans they have the best, C, PF, SF, SG, PG & Sixth man in the league. I know they are on top and undefeated but I dont think they rate top in all of those positions?

Should be a good, close game but I think Perth will continue the streak. I hope I am wrong but the Sixers 3rd quarters worry me...

"and the Boomers appear to think Gibbo has the edge over Martin?"

I'm pretty sure his ankle injury played a part in not getting selected.

"According to some Perth fans they have the best, C, PF, SF, SG, PG & Sixth man in the league"

Maybe not top in every position but top three, no question.

What ankle injury? He wasnt injured pre olympics.

Damo is inferior to Gibbo as he has been, until very very lately, a liability on offence. D can sag off him and help double the middle or clog lanes.

If he gets his 3 ball going consistently then that changes.

Situation - it was documented that Gibbo got the nod over Martin because he could play both guard positions and was more reliable from beyond the arc. Ankle injury or not, Gibbo was still going to get the nod....even Martin himself will clarify this for you and why he has worked so hard on his 3 point shot.

Have to give Martin credit too.....he's certainly improved it and thus himself as a player this year.

If the Boomers had to pick between the 2 now it might be a closer call?!

"What ankle injury? He wasnt injured pre olympics."

Yes he was. Injured in the GF series.

Gibbo is more versatile but excels at neither spot. Damo isn't the same scorer but is the premier defender in the competition.

Damo had a poor shooting run against Wollongong on the weekend, going 1 from 4, but that has been more of an aberration to his other performances this year. Has so far been very accurate from beyond the arc.

But to really understand Damo, you have to watch how he impacts the team as a whole, especially on D. He is a huge part of why, going by Lobpass to Abercrombie's stats, we have the lowest D-Rating, keep people to the lowest shooting percentage, don't give too many FTs and just generally be the worst team to have to execute an offence against. That defensive effort is largely Damo's love-child. When he's also able to make his shots count, which he is certainly demonstrating this year, Damo is a strategic weapon.

Unless its points calculating time of year in which case he's rubbish, overrated and couldn't possibly be worth more than a 9.

LOL....so Brett Brown has no idea then?

Well, he barely played Gibbo (if at all) so I'd say he knows how good he is ;-)

saw Darnel Mee do it regularly actually actually saw him block your Paul Rogers on one end then posterize him on the other in the same sequence

Rob Rose , yep him too

oh and Butch Hays a few times

Al Green was good at it

heck even Craig Winder belted Redhage into the 10th row

Get off Damo's knob he is good but....

...but he is better than Gibbo.

Beal needed an adjustment period and as of right now is probably the hottest import in the league.

They also have the best PF in the league in Shawn Redhage who can dominate a game and win it off his own bat in a quarter. I suggest you do a bit of research before making outlandish comments of that sorts.

Anyone who would take Gibson over Damo has no idea about the game of basketball.

Saw TAB is offering odds of Adelaide 2.00 v Perth 1.80. ASAP Index is predicting Adelaide by 1, so no real "value" option here.

Although if you want value, $5.25 for Townsville away to New Zealand has to tempt.

You're right anon #824. Perth unquestionably have the best six players in the league hands down. No need for anyone else to turn up, give Perth the trophy now. Any one who disagrees with you has no clue.

Isaac, it's about now I need a *rolls eyes* emoticon.

You're right, Perth fans should be proud of their teams history, what making the playoffs for 27 odd years in a row is amazing in any professional sport.
What keeps a smile on my face though was the fact that New Zealand won the championship on Perths swanky millions of dollars stadium.

If my memory serves me correctly the 36ers were the first team to win in their stadium, the Breakers were the first team to win a championship in their stadium.

Wildcats fans need to remember how dominant their last couple of seasons were yet they brought home as much silver wear as...... Yes, the wooden spoon 36ers did.

What will really sting is when Adelaide finish top after the minor rounds then get the win in game 1 of the NBL Finals series before coming back to beautiful Adelaide to sweep the series and win their 5th title equaling yes..... The Wildcats.

Oh man this Friday night is gonna be torture for the pussycats faithful, We will expose you for the false hacks that wear your jerseys and when Ennis the Mennace takes a deal to play overseas and Beal hits the crack pipe, pride will be all you have left.

EVERY one on this forum knows Adelaide is the Cinderella story.

Fish on, just trying to spice up this rivalry and make Friday night the best home and away game in years.

Oh yeah and seriously, I think Caddee is better than Damo, watch the 36ers sag off him and dare him to shoot.

Damo, more like Lamo

Pretty sure you don't know how the finals work.

A Cinderella story is when you have very little and then rise up against all odds to make it on top.

Having one of the best teams on paper then achieving the Wooden spoon, followed up by having a better team then winning is NOT a Cinderella Story.

Wollongong winning it is a Cinderella Story.

Cadee > Damo? Oh dear.

I would not say that Perth has the best PG right now as that is probably Gary Ervin. SG is without a doubt Goulding.After that it changes as Ennis is the best 3 man (lets see what young brings), Redhage is at worst in the top 2 PF's and Knight when healthy is by far the best allround big man in the league.

3 out of 5 positions are probably coverd but Championships are not won on paper. You can have all the Beal's or the Ennis type talent you want, unless they are willing to play team basketball and do the little things you will allways fall short.


That's why this Cats team are playing so well, they are the most unselfish team in the league might be the most talented, but they also are the most unselfish team in the league. Watch how many hands the ball passes through to find a good shot.

@Alabamma Slamma,

Shush troll, no one is taking that screed seriously.

@AlabammaSlamma, if adelaide were to finish minor premiers, why would adelaide play game 1 in Perth and then play game 2 in adelaide??

SIXERS FANS:

This game is the most anticipated 36ers game in...

How long are we saying here? It's been a good 7-8 years since they were really relevant, hasn't it?

Perth fans help me understand the Matt Knight love. Jervis is producing at a better rate stats wise in his 1st season than Knight has in a longtime. Knight is a 4 man playing out of position.

Sure Knight is a good reliable player but the best big man in the league is a long way ahead of what Knight has ever produced. I have never seen him dominate his counterpart in any game.

PG - Yes. Damo is the best at PG. Gibbo might be of more value given he can play a bit of SG, but if you want a pure, top-notch PG Damo is the one IMO

SG - No. Goulding. Can't argue with that.

SF - Yes. Ennis. No question

PF - Yes. I believe Redhage is much more efficient offensively than Worthington. Redhage 16ppg on 48 %FG, 50 % 3PFG and 93.8% FT shooting.

C - No. Maybe if Knight was at full health. But hard to overlook Johnson who is averaging 17.6p and 6.5r (I am not even a 36ers supporter either, was originally going to nominate Pledger, but realised Johnson's stats are much superior)

6th man - I assume they are referring to Wagstaff. Wagstaff is ok, but whoever claimed this is forgetting the depth of 6th mans out there. I can think of a few who are better than Wagstaff -- Tiggs, Wilkinson (once he gets going), McCamey or Gliddon (one of them comes off the bench), Creek is also close.

The Wildcats system always makes Wagstaff look a lot better than what he really is. Of course, when a team has Ennis, Beal, Knight etc. as scoring options, the opposing defence is going to give players like Wagstaff a lot of shot opportunities.
More often than not, teams live with Wagstaff shooting the 3 (he get's left open so much) -- I think that tells you the attention he gets from the defense

Umm Ogilvy??

DJ best centre in the league? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

He's having his best season yet I'd grant that, but he's still an overpaid, no defence, no heart, no will to win problem for the Sixers.

Difference is this year Joey benches his arse at the first sign of BS instead of Marty's softly softly approach.

Best PG is Gary Ervin
Best 2-Guard is Goulding
Best SF is Ennis ( could be Sam Young soon IMO)
Best PF is Wortho
Best C is Ogilvy

Wortho is better than Redhage because Wortho's defense and rebounding are better.
But the best Aussie point guard is Damo but only slightly.

@Situation - Brett Brown still picked Gibbo over Martin, making the squad is more of an achievement and testament to talent than not.

@anon445778 - You cant say things are different internationally. Internationally is a higher level of ball, therefore that makes Gibbo better by default. Your point about Martin being better in the NBL is mute if Gibbo is considered the better international player.

Knight as the best big man in the league cracks me up every time. Anyone who thinks Knight is better (even at full health) than Ogilvy needs to watch a few more games outside of their own little Perth bubble.

Best players as of position;
PG - Ervin
SG - Goulding
SF - Ennis
PF - Worthington
C - Ogilvy

Ah, S*** how rookie of me?

Completely forgot about Ogilvy! What an idiot.

Ervin is also the best PG.

Having a nightmare..long day at work.

As for Beale, he has been probably Perth's best player since that Kings game and has been tearing the league apaert without even trying to score to much. The guy on another team with less talent would be averaging 25 a game.

Wortho better than Redhage? Yeah, I know you guys don't like Redhage but give me a friggen break.

https://beta.proticket.com.au/proticket/Events/Details/2594

Purchase tickets to Friday's double header between 12pm and 1pm or 6pm an 7pm and they are half price.

Wow, I don't think some of us are watching the NBL in the same parallel dimension.

Achievements speak for themselves, Worthington the more decorated player;

WORTHINGTON;
•NBL Rookie of the Year (2006)
•NBL champion (2009)
•4x All-NBL First Team (2008, 2009, 2010, 2012)
•Australia Squad Member (2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011)

REDHAGE;
•2× All-NBL First Team (2008, 2010)
•All-NBL Second Team (2009)
•NBL champion (2010)
•All-NBL Third Team (2013)
•Australia Squad Member (2008)

Oh dear.

Let me know what other goalposts you'd like to shift in order to compare the next two players.

Enlighten us as to how you judge between two players?

True fact: If you asked Tornado to decide who was the better basketball player out of a Wildcats player and Hitler, he would after much deliberation and hard thinking pick Hitler out of principle.

Never pick the Wildcats player. Ever.

True fact:If you asked Nathan of Perth or The Situation to decide who was the better basketball player out of a Wildcats player and any other player the world over (past and present), they would after much deliberation and hard thinking pick a Wildcats player out of blinded bias.

Never pick a player other than a Wildcat. Ever.

Its not bias at all. It was meant to be sensible discussion and it was for a while. But you rate Wortho higher and used his ROTY award as proof...I can't be bothered any more.

Hey we gave you Ogilvy over Knight, quit being greedy.

Half-price tickets for 36ers-Wildcats, on sale on-line only and twice today, including now.

More info

@Situation - No, I rate Wortho higher than Redhage because of all his accomplishments. How about his 4 x All-NBL 1st team honours compared to Redhages 2 or the fact he has been an Australian Squad rep consistently and more recently than Redhage? I'm not the only one rating Worthington higher than Redhage either by the way....

@Nathan - You had to succumb to Ogilvy cos there is no argument against it.

You still havent answered my question as to how you would compare 2 players?

I'm clearly not bias if you look at the list I compiled.

You both need to take your blinkers off.

The Situation

Your post #758 says it all. There is a good argument, maybe a very good argument, that Perth's 1-5 players are in the 'top three' in their positions in the league.

Comparing two players is always subjective. Putting different players in different situations is also relevant to how they perform. But it is clear now that you have backtracked from your earlier position that you are tolling for sport. Fun though that may be.

I'm doing what?

Trolling

I agree the Worthington ROY award is rather irrelevant though. Unless that is by comparison to Redhage getting cut in his 'rookie' year. Similarly, whilst Redhage now qualifies for Boomers, he has not for most of the time Wortho has.

How have I backtracked, and how does that translate to trolling?

A fully fit Knight is every bit as good as Ogilvy. No one shuts down oppo centres as well as he does.

I'm just going to point out neither myself nor the Situation made or endorsed the post where it was claimed we had the best 1-6 in the league. We were mainly replying to the wave of (predictable) excessive push back.

In particular people like Tornado up there who's probably of the opinion that none of the Wildcats starters would get games in a SEABL cellar dweller.

Basically, don't try to hoist us on someone else's petard, XY.

Don't try to suggest it is inconceivable someone could rate Wortho more than Redhage, or Gibbo over Martin.

I don't think its inconceivable - I don't agree with it, but I could understand someone taking the position. Well, less so in Gibbo over Damo, that's just weird :)

Not inconceivable? Ok, I didn't get that from your reasoned arguments. I must have been distracted by your proof of Godwin's Law.

^ It's not Godwin's Law if I don't compare him to Hitler :D

Didn't you know that Hitler could ball?

On the subject of Redhage, he has missed the All NBL teams only twice in his career his first half season in NZ and the year he did his hip.

2 X All-NBL First Team (2008, 2010)
3 X All-NBL Second Team (2006, 2007, 2009)
2 X All-NBL Third Team (2011, 2013)

compared to Worthington who has 4 X All NBL First team honours but has missed the All NBL teams in his other seasons.

They are both the clear top 2 power forwards in the NBL but it comes down to how much you value consistency as to which order you list them.

I thought it was inconceivable when someone stated so matter of factly that he was better, and it turned out I was right as he needed to introduce the irrelevant ROTY to "prove" his point.

I also thought the theme of this "who's better?" discussion was more along the lines of "who would you want on your team right now?", not "who's had the more decorated career?". It seemed to me that was what was being discussed. As I said, the goalposts got shifted so I gave up.

If you wanted me to put together a Top 5 by position as it stands for the NBL I'd go:

PG Martin or Ervin - depending on time of day, position of jupiter, price of wheat, etc
SG Goulding - love Beal but no one has even slowed Goulding down yet.
SF Ennis - don't even argue gentlemen
PF Redhage - now Worthington is a great player but Redhage has already punched the tickets of 3 teams with his 4Q efforts this season. When the game is on the line, Redhage will always be the one I want shooting
C Ogilvy - having a ripper of a season, scoring and rebounding machine inside.

@XY,
According to the legends, he was well-accustomed to only handling a single ball.

Paul i usually agree with most things you say. Personally, i cant recall him shutting anyone down effectively. Just the other day I found a box score with Schenscher had 19 and 18 against him. DJ got a POTW against him last season with 21 and 15. That is just off the top of my head. Random box score check sees Seth Scott with 16 and 9 against him.

Hope the game is as fiery as this thread.
Ervin best pg this season
martin best aust pg (gibbo playing sg)
Beal top 3 at sg, Ennis top SF ( see how Young goes at Sydney), Redhage 2nd best PF (Wortho ahead just) . DJ 2nd best C (after Ogilvy) a healthy Matt Knight is probably better than DJ. Sixers by 5

BJF, here's a stat from R16 last season:

"So far this season Knight has out-scored opposition starting centres 14.4 points a game to 6.1, and out-rebounded them 7.1 to 4.9."

That's pretty comprehensive to me. He is one of the best one-on-one defensive centres Ive seen in the NBL and also an excellent team defender.

Yeah, the problem with just matching C statline to C statline is its impossible to account for how much was accrued against the starter and how much was accrued against the bench player.

where did that stat come from? Trigger had 15 and 15 on him one night.Thats a guy notorious for not rebounding!

Round 15 v Cns Trigger 7 & 7 Loughton 16 &7 he was guarding one of those guys

I had a quick look through teh 1st few rounds form last season and no way is that stat correct.

I just copied and pasted achievements of both players from another site. In no way was I suggesting that Worthingtons ROY win is/was the difference between he and Redhage.

Stop hanging your hat on they ROY accolade (which I never stated was a key component) and focus on the complete list of their achievements.

I stopped checking after round 7

Below includes going against Larry Abney and Pledger starting with an 8 pt 0 rb effort:

Starting centres averaged 13.5 and 7 v Perth.

@BJF,

Knight played 22min, Trueman 19min.
Trigger 24min, Loughton 30min.

And judging by Trueman's stat line, he was given a bath in those 19 minutes. I'd suspect strongly that's who was guarding in the bulk of those points/rebounds. Unfortunately my memory of that night is kind of hazy, it might be a game I didn't get out to.

Unfortunately, sportingpulse doesn't have the play-by-play to track the +/- of those matchups.

Quickly added the last few rounds and playoffs from last season and starting centres averaged 7.7p at 45% and 5.5r against Knight.

Of course there are variables, did he face much of the back-up? How much direct guarding in zone? Fact teams only scored 89% of average score against Perth etc, but the stats match the observation and the reputation that he is an elite defensive big man.

This is a quote Mika Vukona gave me:

"He's a beast, a real pain to play against. He's big and real physical. You try to do post moves against him and he has all the counters for it, because he's doing all those moves offensively."

Paul that isnt what you said though, you stated something as fact which I have demonstrated is incorrect.

As a snapshot against what you have changed your argument to:

Round 20 Ballinger 15 & 5 vs 12 & 6
Round 20 Crosswhite 9 & 8 vs 12 & 3
Round 19 Ballinger 9 & 5 vs 10 & 2
Round 22 Crosswhite out injured vs 19 & 8
Round 23 Trigger 13 & 8 vs 6 & 7

In these examples he hasn't got one stat line better than his counter part. if he is the best in the league surely he would from time to time.

Again not sure where you are getting your stats from....

He was also playing (considerably) fewer minutes than his counterparts because of Bevo's rotation philosophy and because, in most of those, we were handing out thrashings.

^ do you even check before you post?

BJF, what I said was simple, and the stats of his match-ups against oppo starting centres are from the official boxscores. There is nothing incorrect about it (although you listing Balls as Melbourne's starting centre is).

If you believe he isnt a good defensive centre that's fine, Im not sure youll find too many coaches or big men around the league who'll agree with you. In fact, you could start by asking Schenscher and Petrie after the game this Friday, Id be interested to know what they tell you.

@BJF,

What part did you have a problem with?

Let me elaborate further; you are trying to use a stat line comparison to show things that they don't actually track, the head to head performance of two players when matched on each other. To assess their head to head footage we'd need to go to the tapes (if they're still available on NBL tv, which I haven't checked) or find a copy of live scores that still has the play by play so you can check who was on court for what figures. Crudely jamming two stat lines next to each other is of relatively little utility, especially as defensive effort is very badly reflected in them and we are trying to assess whether he is an elite defensive centre, which encompasses so many more facets of the game than raw points and rebounds.

Remember we were an outside shooting team who did not run our O through Knight, and his backup in Trueman (who it turns out is no Tom Jervis) played almost as many minutes as he did despite the fact opposition players would feast on him. Remember too that one of Knight's habits was simply knocking on the rebounds towards other people who got credit for the board.

And despite the fact we were an outside shooting team who did not direct much of the offense through Knight, he still averaged over 14pts for the season.

And as paul said, if you can find one person who is actually in the NBL in a playing or coaching capacity to say even off the record that Knight is anything but elite, you will have found a very, very rare bird indeed. Again, I am not saying he is the best C in the NBL, or as good as Ogilvy. But if you don't think Knight is an elite player then I'm flabbergasted.

People changing words from the best in the lesague to elite, they are all elite. There is only 8 starting centres in the league.

You cant show me one centre ( possibly Pledger last season , though Hudson stepped up) that Knight has owned end to end.

Remember too that we haven't seen Knight get much burn under the new interpretations as yet, so lets see how his defense goes now that he cant grapple with other bigs.

If you think Perth didnt utilise Knight last season in their offence we are watching different games. Pick and roll was a definite part of their structure as was pick and pop when he floated for a deep 2 / 3

The box scores i have quoted are best that can be used in this discussion.

Not sure how Paul can refute the ones i have quoted because they are in the history books. Happy to be corrected if you can show where you got your stats from because they are different to the ones i have looked up. either that or your calculator is broken.

If Knight has such defensive prowess then scorers like Trigger, Johnson and Ballinger should have bad nights against him but they dont. Those same 3 are touted regularly as liabilities on defense so it makes sense that if Knight was so elite he should be having his way with them , but he doesnt.

Dont know what to tell you other than he has been a good role player on a good team , beyond that is just hype IMO

Knight floated for a deep 2/3? He took one 3pt shot that I can recall all year and that was the hail mary dagger to sink Townsville at Perth Arena. And that wasn't even off a pick and roll and was *definitely* the first 3pt or even near 3pt attempt he'd had all year.

Those stat-lines may be the best that can be used, but that doesn't actually mean they have any real utility. But even then, 15pt, 9pt, 9pt, 13pt, these are not big hauls by any means except maybe Ballinger, even by the reduced standards of last year.

The All-NBL first team Centre was a good role player, well that does beat all...

Just so we're clear, if a Wildcat plays well, he is just playing his role, or the team system creates for him, or he wouldn't play that well on another team, but if he plays within the team and sacrifices his game to suit that team, he should also be marked down for it while a lesser player on a lesser team is given the plaudits. Have I got that right?

Who cares everyone has their opinions and no amount of facts that get thrown around is going to change anyone's opinion. Lets just agree to disagree and concentrate on the game. I hope it's an entertaining competitive one no matter what the result is. I feel it is a dangerous game for both teams and could go either way. Perth probably have an edge but you can't be sure with Adelaide. Looking like they will have a big crowd behind them and the way they have dug deep to pull off some wins especially last weeks game might just be enough to get them over the line. All I know is I will be there cheering the 6ers on hoping for a win and remembering how much more fun this season has been than the last 5-6.

@bk,

Good comment - I've supported some teams (soccer/AFL) that have gone on real rollercoasters and no matter how trite the cliche seems, the downs do make the ups all the sweeter.

Seth Scott was the 1st all team starting centre not Knight.

Ask yourself this padwans would you rather Dunnigan or Knight in your team

I would rather Knight to Dunigan by a country mile. Dunigan was so overrated it wasn't funny; he was exciting but Matt Knight is the better fit in a team environment.

BJF, don't know what you are looking up but here is the wikipedia entry,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBL_team

Quite clearly Matt Knight and Seth Scott are both in the All NBL first team both played F/C so either could be argued as All NBL C.

http://www.botinagy.com/blog/nblwnbl---all-the-winners/

For a non-Wikipedia link.

And yes, I'd take Knight, even though I was a strong admirer of Mike's love of Nandos peri-peri.

I like Knight, but I'd take Ogilvy over him just. Knight at his best is in the top tier or challenging for best centre. I also think Davidson is underrated in the centre ranks for his D, smarts and ability to hit the three.

I think of DJ and Balls as PFs first and leave the former from the discussion of best centre because I think D is critical at centre.

I would take Dunigan over Knight.

Knight is very injury prone.

Dunigan has very good interior defensive presence.

Even if the shot is not blocked, it is altered.

Knight does not have as much intimidation as Dunigan, although Knight is still a very good low post defender.

Nathan of Perth, we'll see what we can do to accommodate you and Shane Heal this Friday. The 36ers don't really need this win. Are you for real? My only wish for this Friday's game is that the refs keep a good eye out on Redhage's elbows.

Yes, EC, I am totally for real. I am seriously asking that.

Also, if you have any bridges for sale, I'm in the market.

Nathan, I have a few burnt bridges you may be interested in?

Close enough is good enough!

On an unrelated note, bookies look stumped by this one. All odds I'm seeing are basically straight down the middle, or with a 0.5 line to the Cats.

Boti Nagy is tipping Sixers though (and for Wildcats to finish the round 9-1).

I think of Knight a bit like Paul Rees in his Sixers years, but with obviously a lot more time still left in him. The value of that solid guy (leg strength is a big part of post D I'm told) who knows how to defend anyone coming his way is massive. Even as he ages and slows, a lot of that value will remain.

I reckon two skills really work to keep players in the league beyond their peers. One is sheer ability to shoot (Phill Jones, Rillie, Bruton) and the other is post D smarts/experience. A big who loses speed or is a bit hapless on D will drop out more quickly.

Ouch, comparing an NBL runner-up MVP, All-1st and 2nd teamer to Paul Rees!! I see what you mean though, a guy who does all the physical stuff on D, and Rees was so vital to many successful teams.

Knight would have to be considered 'poetry-in-somewhat-faster-motion' compared to Rees. Arguably, fast forward. Knight has a range of offensive moves in his toolkit that Rees could only have dreamt of (love the big guy).

Knight has a junior WC gold medal but cant match the NBL championships. When it comes to individual talent Knight is a long long way ahead.

Only drawing a comparison to that post-D which kept Rees valuable later in his career. As a 36ers fan, I remember wondering how the hell Rees was still in the league, let alone starting and on a successful team. My brother, who came into that team during those years, said it was all about lower body strength and sheer experience in defending other bigs. Reesy knew the tendencies of opposition players innately rather than having to recall scouting reports and game tape.

paul, Rees was a finals MVP and got to 500 games. Might be a complete dork, but far from an awful career! Knight's Andre the Giant look and lumbering run doesn't push him too far from the dork talk actually!

Absolutely, and he didnt mind using that weight to good effect and to piss opponents off either!

36 Reasons tipping 36ers by 7

Love the coverage over here in NZ.

Get the NZ game at 7.30pm, then the blockbuster PER-ADL game after.

No complaining from me.

agreed Macdub, quiet night on the couch with a few cold beers watching some quality basketball & the Breakers ;)

Sixers by 9
Crowd 5811

9 and 0

Sixers by 6, crowd 6312.

Oh hell with it, may as well throw my hat in the ring.

Cats by 4 on the back of 4Q D, 10-0 come monday.

I'm tipping Sixers to throw out the spinnaker in front of the home crowd.

My predictions:
Crowd 5,999
Sixers by 1

Scoreboard
Qtr time 25:24
Half time 49:49
3 QT 73:75
FT 93:92

Redhage to have 3 fouls by half time and be a protected species by the refs in the second half.
Ennis will bowl over someone - no charge call.
Gibbo will brush Redhage with a feather, he will flop like Sponge Bob and charge on Gibbo.

Looking forward to seeing Erik play and hope he outscores most of his team.
Beal looks like he could go for 25 points this game.

I expecting to see Mark Hubbard and Dean Parker sharing a beer in the bar.

^ Erik Burden to hit the 3pt winner on the buzzer and then start dancing in front of the 36ers chairman's box ;)

And watch ervin cry like a bitch and dj the princess that no one touch.

@cats 4 life,

Don't be so touchy lol

If Erik does that we will mail him back to you guys in Perth one piece at a time ;/

Jack (446320)-- would be like a gunfight in an old western, but in very slow motion, as they both make out to draw their wallet from the back pocket to pay for the beer!

As the Wildcats have the best player in positions 1 through 5, the best bench ever, the best coach and assissant, the Cats should probably win by 60+

Don't limit yourself, Situation, god in his infinite wisdom saw fit to allow for three digits for times like this.

nice one hanging around.

The Situation, like they say "A champion team beats a team of champions" If the Wildcats DO have the best players in position 1 to 5, we had better get the chippies down to the Dome to widen the doors to ensure head clearance for the visiting team.

Love to see this post if u guy's lose? U will be complaing about sumthin. Are the doors big enough? Other half of the door work? Been a while since u have had to let that many ppl in at one time. I laugh if u guyz get done by 20 at hm!

And i would have to agree to earlier posts i would pick a healthy Wortho over Redhage every day of the week. Redhage flops too much and fouls even more, i think he hits the floor nearly as many times as the ball ha ha ha. But i digress, as much as i hope perth finally lose one, i think they will get the win by 1. Sydney may be able to get a win if fatigue becomes an issue on sunday and Ogilvy has a big game. But then the Kings may never get it over half court with Damo guarding Camouche.

It's going to be a baptism by fire for Carmouche and the new dynamic, that's for sure. If they can make it work in Perth then everyone should watch out, cause they'll make it work anywhere.

^ lol, settle gretel, you're no catch yourself.

Informative = pro Sixers/anti Wildcats stuff.

Yes you are! Shine on you crazy diamond!

Love to see this post if u guy's lose?

Spot on Isaac, unless the Sixers go down by 50 it will be a great game and these games are the games season ticket holders want to see.

Only way the stadium would erupt would be if a Perth pussycat stomped on Brett's signature.

The cricket has been doing an admirable job keeping the nerves distracted, though now Townsville and New Zealand will be helping out with that.

Well, I'm distressed.

My message above 91-86 adel win

Great comeback by the cats, shoot 35% and lose by 5. Due for a loss but adelaide played well

Not bad against the team with the five best players in the league (or was it six?)

Huge win and such a great game to watch. Been a long time since the crowd has had that much fun at a game and haven't rushed out the doors at the end.
Petrie was a beast on D for this game, really thought he got more than 8 rebounds.

Johnson played well but still needs to realize a centre shouldn't be leading the team down the court in fast breaks and should do some rebounding/boxing out.

Really great to watch basketball like this in Adelaide again!!

Anyone hear any more on frye? You would have to assume a few weeks at least. On the game, it was fantastic and I know there were a lot of new fans around me which should have been impressed.

Martin is more important to Perth than Gibson is to Adelaide and Redhage is running at career best form. Both players were awesome tonight.

Ervin and Johnson were brilliant for the Sixers.

Knight is not in elite status at the moment, looked very out of touch and Perth saw Frye at his best in a pre-season game. Cancelled each other out tonight.

These two teams are going to have some absolute beauties this season and the sledging between fans is going to be worth a few LOL moments.

Sixers were probably helped out in the last minute and a bit with some favourable calls but in general the referees were pretty good.

I am here knob, wortho better than redhage??? Guess u guy's no ure stuff!!! Golden ring on dj and u guy's get free shots on the stripe in the last qtr?? Maybe frye did his ankle and that's why we came back??? Thought so

So much love here...
Perths poor shooting helped the6ers but that poor shooting was probably due to the 6ers D
Why didnt they play more zone in the second half?
Would have lost that game last year
Cadee was so confident tonight one ofhis best games for the 36ers

Best game of basketball at the Dome since Brett's last game.

Great crowd of 6,585. Thank goodness BSA had the foresight to keep the district schedule, the stadium wouldn't have been able to handle the extra 1,500.

I think the whole league was wanting to see the Cats get done tonight. I particularly enjoyed watching Grub Hire sulk his way off the court at the end.

Well done, 36ers, thunderous first half. Well done, Adelaide, thunderous home court.

We'll have to go off and lick our wounds after this one. Shame we couldn't peg back a bit more in the third, left too much to overcome in the fourth.

Bad for us, but good for the league; competition has opened up again. But thankfully, we can still end the weekend on a high; Sydney await with another cracking game.

And hey, if we were going to get a loss, may as well be on the road in Adelaide. ;)

You are so funny cats 4 life saying if the sixes lose we will be complaining about something and then the cats lose and you are the first person to complain. Joshuapending frye was interviewed upstairs after the game and had a bit of a limp but looks like it will probably be ok. He said he wasn't sure if he landed on someone's foot or just rolled it.

His scoring wasn't so high, but his other stats were good; 13p, 9r, 3a, 3s, 1b

Nearly a double-double, but needed more scoring output. But that was a general issue, scoring at a better %age outside than inside is more symptom than accomplishment here.

"Petrie was a beast on D for this game" the same Petrie that had 30 scored against him by Redhage? Even if all of them weren't scored on him I thought he had a poor game and was destroyed by Redhage especially in that second half.

"Johnson played well but still needs to realize a centre shouldn't be leading the team down the court in fast breaks" The same Johnson that dribbled it up the court and took it all the way for the easy two? Johnson played a great game and his key foul shooting and his points throughout the game is what helped us win it. No matter how good Johnson plays he never gets credit for a good game. If Gibson or Petrie ended up with 24 people would be raving about how awesome they played but if Johnson does it is "He played well" yet Petrie's direct player gets 30 and it is "He was a beast on D" okay then.

It was a great win. A bit of a shame that we let them back in.

@GuesswhosBACK are you finally going to give credit to Ervin or do you still think we could have done better?

Majority of Perth's offence is beyond the arc. Sixers did well to stifle it for 2 and a bit quarters before Perth worked out how to get some open looks and then cue the comeback.

Sixers style looks to be play flat out for a half, have a rest and make a few sloppy errors mid way through the third to mid way through the 4th and then pick it up a bit and hold on for the win.

Promising that we still got the win while being outrebounded, hitting no shots from outside, shooting 70 odd percent from the stripe and pretty much being an import down.

Tonight's game was pretty much a mirror image of the game here against the Tigers.

It's been proven, Perth are beatable. Question is, how good are Sydney and Melbourne going to be with their import changes?

Frye to miss next Fridays game I believe and rest his ankle. Good opportunity for Creek to step up.

@kingjames...I disagree. I thought Petrie was big when it mattered and we looked much better as a defensive unit with him on the court. It's 5 on 5 out there remember and teams run offensive plays to get "certain" players open. It took Perth a while but they figured it out, just happened to coincide with the 6ers taking their foot off the pedal and going away from the game style that got them the lead. If Peach gets screened on a play it's up to the other player to switch. Same goes for when DJ has no choice but to contest a shot, someone needs to switch, block out and rebound....that wasn't happening in the 2nd half either.

^ Adelaide is very good at defending home court this year. I would not be surprised to see Perth and Adelaide go 14-0 at home. Road form will become critical to determine minor premier. Will probably be between Perth & Adelaide, with Melbourne and Sydney the next two playoff berths.

36ers going 2/2 in NZ will be a huge advantage, puts enormous pressure on Perth to try and eke out a win at Vector.

Brilliant game to watch on TV....and it was even better live ;-). The noise when we won was incredible and well deserved. We may have given up another very good half time lead.....but not once tonight did the Wildcats hit the front. We led from the opening score until the final buzzer.

DJ was damn good tonight and something not normally said about him....I think he had a good game at BOTH ends of the court. He must like playing the Wildcats....as Shawn Redhage must like playing us when he's not dislocating his hip. Had to laugh when Redhage back elbowed Cadee and got a foul. I think he forgot that Jason is a wee bit shorter than most of his usual defenders, normally that would have been in the chest but it got him on the chin.

The Adelaide 36ers did not hit one single 3 point shot tonight, we were 0/9. Since the 3 point line was introduced, has that ever happened with us?

6,585 was the second largest crowd I've been a part of at the Arena. The biggest was my first game there when it was the Powerhouse...1994 semi-final win over the Tigers which was a capacity crowd.

that first half had me wondering 'these are meant to be the kindest rings in the league'?

was a pretty decent game and Johnson was amazing (he always seemed to pop up throughout the game) but I did find it a little unusual seeing 7 men in the key going for a rebound and then he grabs it near the 3 point line... what was he doing out there on defense?

Ervin and Cadee were brilliant and they really kept you guys rolling.

Is Schenscher getting any fitter or is he regressing into retirement (oh but he has to wait till 70 years of age now) as him and Knight seemed about the same form and fitness?

I wonder how Hammer feels now that Perth have lost... if Sydney win on Sunday will they get the credit or will it be seen as a mini slump?

Cracking game to watch. Great comeback by Perth. Well done Adelaide. Good to see the Sixers getting big again on and off the court.

Great crowd, but you seemed to be in stunned silence when Perth charged back into the game. Thats when you need to be behind the team! Great atmosphere none the less.

Cats were due for a loss, but hope the defeat wont be the start of a mini slump and cost top spot. Only 1 game ahead of Adelaide now and the Sixers are already 2 for 2 in NZ.

That was the best game I have seen DJ play. It was also the first time he went hard to the basket and not try to draw fouls. Great.

Trevor "Jackie" Gleeson seems to have an optical problem, maybe refractive error, if he believes that all his players that are fouled are standing straight up. His constant carping to the junior ref almost had the desired effect. Maybe that's the next Gorgian play that will be targeted by the NBL.

You can't say you didn't get your moneys worth last night.

Small problem though! More people means its harder to get a beer at half time.

There's no doubt that Redhage is a brilliant player (for half a game). Same applies to the team. What happened in the first half? Perth have to stop thinking they are so great that they can rest for the first half and then make it all up in the 2nd. They left it a tad too late. The distance was too great, their determination fell short. Don't underestimate Adelaide this season, they are not the same team of the previous 3 seasons.

Yes, that's what they did. They thought Adelaide were easy beats so they didn't try o.0

The three least successful teams over the past three-four years have been Adelaide, Sydney and Melbourne, it's nice to see these big city teams finally turning it around and generating some buzz.

That atmosphere came through the TV last night, the old Adelaide jeering and bronx cheers, fans going off for a o-board tip etc, that's been missing for quite a while.

Great game - and great to see Sixers win, but those two blocks by Martin (on Ervin and Gibbo) were a highlight.

Great to see the Sixers back!

Doing everything right this season from coach to squad to marketing.

I had forgotten what a good nights entertainment it is with a rocking crowd and a fun team to watch. I just can't comprehend we stuck with the previous coaches for 4 years.

When J.Frye began to play on Ennis I thought Frye was gonna have a good game.

Wildcats have definitely been put on notice by that game; next two between these teams will be massive. And if what everyone's expectations come true, the next three after that ;)

I don't think the 36ers played poorly when Perth rallied. Had a couple of unlucky out-of-bounds incidents, but it was mostly Redhage/etc making shots. Not surprising that the championship favourites with their full squad can make a run back into the game if we can do it earlier. All about who's up at the end and we've done it against the Cats, in Cairns and in NZ - not shabby teams.

Great game for the NBL. Close, home win is good for TV and the league and a game like that is a big help for the 36ers as a club. The players have been confident from the start of the season, so it's been all about getting fans back to the games.

According to Boti's latest article, the last time an NBL team won a game without hitting a 3 pointer was back in April 1989 when.....the 36ers defeated the Wildcats at Apollo. There have been 769 games played since then.

The 1989 team...including guys like Al Green, Darryl Pearce, Mike McKay and Scott Ninnis who could light up from outside....did not hit one single 3? Not something that would happen every day.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/basketball/gary-ervin-and-the-36ers-leading-basketballs-second-coming-in-adelaide-and-new-fans-are-loving-it/story-fnii09ki-1226766904180

^ thats the type of awesome stats or "fun facts" that could have been said during the commentary on tv. Obviously would had to have waited until the game was over to mention it. I know Carfino doesnt bother with research, and the budget or dedication in the tv coverage doesnt exist and i doubt there are any people working behind the scenes to find this info, but how great would it be to "bring up" a stat like that during a game? AFL do it all the time. Its things like that which are sorely lacking in the coverage in general.

That's where you need a dedicated stats person. Who was the guy Fox had who did that? He used to produce some great stats for Casey.

Mark Slocombe who is now NBL Facts on Twitter is the guy.

Ten could always employ him for their basketball coverage.