Anonymous
Earlier this month

Casper Ware highest paid import in the league (19-20)

I know there's already a topic about Ware opting out, but there was an interesting tidbit in the article about Ware being the highest paid import in the league.

This is interesting in view of the somewhat "he say, she say" nature of the previous off-season negotiations between Ware and Melbourne United. I think Vince Crivelli said that United made their highest ever offer but couldn't match Sydney - this might suggest he wasn't lying about that.

I also note the wording that Ware was the highest paid import, rather than the highest paid player. Does that suggest an Australian player would've been higher paid? Would that have been Bogut?

https://www.espn.com.au/nbl/story/_/id/29129283/casper-ware-opts-sydney-kings-nbl-deal

Topic #47197 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Andrew Svaldenis back in the day for the sixers!

Reply #804722 | Report this post


FM  
Earlier this month

The way he let Cotton blow Sydney off the court, looks like Sydney got themselves a true Lemon.

Reply #804756 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this month

Highest paid import in the league for him to play well against all teams and Super against United.

And that trash he served up in the GF is on a John Starks level.

He kept shooting even though his head was not in it, what was it 1 of 20? Scott Christophersen shot better than that.

He was the real MVP of the Finals for the Wildcats.

Paul Smith and Will Weaver are an embarrassment, to have the highest paid player on the highest paid roster, have HGA by leading the league throughout the year, then lose twice at home to the Wildcats.

Reply #804779 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

It is crazy how much money they spent and how stacked their roster was. I remember I couldn't believe it when they added Cooks part way through the season - another premium player.

Thought the title race was all over at that point.

Reply #804780 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Nick Kay getting underestimated on here by to many, yes Cotton was the MVP but Kay's contribution goes underestimated. Defensively and offensively he killed Tate and Cooks who were supposed to be part of the Sydney big guns.

Reply #804781 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this month

Nick Kay getting underestimated on here by to many, yes Cotton was the MVP but Kay's contribution goes underestimated. Defensively and offensively he killed Tate and Cooks who were supposed to be part of the Sydney big guns.


Agreed. When Trevor demanded Cotton be made MVP I was surprised as I thought Kay was very close behind if not as deserving.

Kay was solid throughout the series, and like Cotton, he was able to poke holes in the Sydney D with his floaters, mid-range and 3 ball.

Last season, United at least was successful in focusing on Cotton and limiting his scoring, only to have White go off.

This season, the Kings focused on Cotton, only to have Cotton and others like Kay and Steindl thrive.

Homocide said Sydney was a bust for having the most stacked team and not win, pains me but I have to agree.

Reply #804785 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Forget the money side of things but Melbourne had the most stacked team on paper, Sydney's was good on paper as well but a few overrated and past there best. Perth very solid 7-8 players plus gun starting five.

Reply #804788 | Report this post


Double Clutch  
Earlier this month

Kay was great, but Sydney were playing a triangle and two leaving him wide open. He did exactly what was expected of him in that scenario, and made them pay for it in game 3.

Reply #804796 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this month

Kay was great, but Sydney were playing a triangle and two leaving him wide open. He did exactly what was expected of him in that scenario, and made them pay for it in game 3.


Why didn't Weaver adjust when Kay was on his way to 7-9 from 3????

I could understand if Cotton was being shutdown by the Triange and 2 but that was reaping no discernible benefit either!

Reply #804798 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Earlier this month

Weaver's not the greatest coach when it comes to making in-game adjustments.

That and Casper's disappearing act cost them the title.

Reply #804800 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this month

I'll just wait for an apology from all you numb nuts who were banging on about this all season, how Casper allegedly was so offended about DJ Kennedy getting paid more, that he went to Sydney for less money than United had been paying him.

Sydney had the highest paid import and probably the highest paid Aussie in Bogut. Is there any doubt they were the highest paid team ever (as I was saying all year).

And they got into the GF through helpful reffing. (And United's game 1 choke).

So much for Weaver being a great coach.

He may well be, but he hasn't proven it in the NBL yet. He had a great start (11-1). But Gaze (7-0) and Demopolous (9-0) had great starts too.

Reply #804804 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Yes Weaver inability to adjust was certainly found out, there back half of the season was nothing like the first half, injuries played a part but they had a full squad at seasons end.

Reply #804805 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this month

Weaver's not the greatest coach when it comes to making in-game adjustments.

That and Casper's disappearing act cost them the title.


Also his subbing patterns, he would sub off Lisch or Bruce when they were hitting shots...in favour of Ware!

Now Lisch I could understand could be load management, but Bruce?

I think Weaver was just hoping Ware would self invoke Melbourne United Ware. It could have come at Games 4 and 5 but Ware didn't want to show up to those either.

Reply #804807 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Try being a kings supporter. Lmao. :::))))))

Reply #804809 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

"I'll just wait for an apology from all you numb nuts who were banging on about this all season, how Casper allegedly was so offended about DJ Kennedy getting paid more, that he went to Sydney for less money than United had been paying him."

I don't remember anyone saying that.

Reply #804811 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this month

I don't remember anyone saying that.


That assertion was made in the forum.

But LV wants an apology to him.

That's like me going to my Chinese neighbour demanding an apology for COVID19 when I nor my loved ones have been directly impacted.

Reply #804813 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Earlier this month

Yeah I don't remember reading a single post on here saying Ware took a paycut to go to Sydney, the complete opposite actually.

The Melbourne GM said they offered him the largest contract offer in team history (DJ Kennedy was supposedly on $750K) but Ware was miffed that the GM lied to him about him being the highest paid player on the team so bolted for Sydney.

Imports generally aren't in the business of leaving money on the table so if Ware left United despite them offering him $750K+ then he was likely on more than that at Sydney.

Reply #804816 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

On the topic of Weaver, he has been one big disappointment.

There is coaching depth in this country, but administrators and team owners seem to love to sign big names who aren't up to scratch or who don't know the league.

Reply #804821 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Paul Smith has confirmed that on Twitter that recent events have justified the Kings decision to pull out of the Grand Final series.

Reply #804881 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this month

I think Weaver was just hoping Ware would self invoke Melbourne United Ware. It could have come at Games 4 and 5 but Ware didn't want to show up to those either.

How many times does it have to be said there is no such thing as "Melbourne United Ware"? The Friendly Ghost also choked against the Wildcats for Utd in the 2019 GF - he's disappeared in two Grand Final series in a row for two different clubs. On the way he's won consecutive GF MVPs for Perth as well, he's that good at being bad! If there are two different versions of him they would be regular season Ware and playoff Ware. The latter stinks it up big time. The only title he has won was when MEL barely got by ADL after they lost Childress.

Reply #804900 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Sorry, LV. Was that as lame for you as it was for me?

Reply #804912 | Report this post


Mike  
Earlier this month

Weaver a big disappointment? Really? Tied for best overall record. 2nd for best coach of the year. Biggest crowd of the year. And if their highest paid player goes for 2-17 instead of 1-17 in the first GF game they would have won the whole thing. Anybody here think Perth wins if Cotton is a no show in the finals like Ware? In every presser all year long Sydney's coach preached players first. And in the end he cared more for his players being able to get back home than winning a trophy. And Weaver has already showed how he can can take old unwanted players and make them pretty good. Perth fans, without your 3 best guys next year do you really think you will be top 5? Oh and one last thing. Perth didn't win the trophy, they were given the trophy. With an asterisk. See you next season. Without Cotton.

Reply #804913 | Report this post


TB  
Earlier this month

Well the other team was losing and decided to not show up...so who else were they going to give it to?

Reply #804915 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

" Biggest crowd of the year. "

What's that got to do with Weaver?

Reply #804916 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

"And if their highest paid player goes for 2-17 instead of 1-17 in the first GF game they would have won the whole thing. Anybody here think Perth wins if Cotton is a no show in the finals like Ware?"

Except, Cotton produced offensively all year and Ware didn't. Yet Weaver didn't address it and kept allowing Ware to attempt far too many FGA for his efficiency.

Reply #804918 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

"Kay was great, but Sydney were playing a triangle and two leaving him wide open."

Kay was great no matter what defence Sydney was playing. It wasn't like they sat in triangle and two the whole series.

Reply #804919 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this month

Ware's 2019 GF was underwhelming by his usually high standards, but it was not remotely comparable to his disappearing act in 2020.

Casper absolutely destroyed Sydney in the 2019 semi final, and he won the finals MVP in France in 2016. Saying there's a "regular season" Ware and a "playoffs Ware" is not accurate in the slighest. He's one of the All time greats of the NBL- despite his poor playoffs this year.

So in some ways, this exonerates Weaver a little- not much you can do if your best player just can't buy a basket. But as people mentioned above- Weaver didn't do enough to mix things up. Like when Trimble was struggling, Vickerman benched him for Shea Ili and it worked wonders. What did Weaver do?

Reply #804924 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

I definitely wouldn't call Ware an all-time great of the NBL. He's been a very good player in recent years, but he doesn't have the resume of Gaze, Cotton, Jackson, Grace, CJ Bruton, McDonald, Rose et al.

Reply #804926 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Cotton>>>>>>>Ware

Reply #804927 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this month

All of those guys are all-time greats, obviously

How many players have made All NBL 1st team 3 years in a row?

How many have made either the 1st or 2nd team 4 years running?

How many players have finished top 4 in the MVP 2 years running?

How many players have been their team's best player in a championship year?

The answer to all questions is "very few". Casper's done all of them. It might get down to definitions and semantics, but for me, there's no doubt whatsoever he's an "all time great".

Reply #804930 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this month

And when I say semantics, some people refuse to accept that definition unless you have the longevity

(They might make exceptions for Cotton or Jackson who, in their short time, achieved even more than Casper)

But for me, 4 years in the NBL and all the above achievements makes you an all-time great

Reply #804931 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this month

And Casper's one "failing" compared to other all-time greats is his lack of MVP

But you have to put some historical context into that point

2018-19 was a tight, 3 way race and the award could've gone to any of Cotton, Ware or Bogut.

Hot competition, you could say. There's been plenty of NBL MVPs who weren't anywhere near Casper.

Reply #804932 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Casper Melbourne stats and Sydney stats were very similar, the competition got better and Casper got older. Cotton is a wizard but Weaver lack of ability to adjust on the run to Cotton and Kay was where Sydney lost it. I thought Vickerman did the the previous year as well when White went nuts so Weaver is not on his own.

Reply #804939 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

@Mike

Can you speak up I can't hear you over the sound of our 10 banners flapping in the wind

Reply #804959 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

"All of those guys are all-time greats, obviously"

Yes they are, and I don't think many people would put Ware in the category alongside those guys. Not saying he's not very good, just not quite at the top of the pile.

Reply #804964 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Mike - I'm the anon you replied to who said Weaver is a disappointment. I do find your assumption that I am a Perth supporter amusing, I'm a 36ers season ticket holder.

Weaver was a disappointment because once teams adjusted to his schemes of drop coverages and standard NBA actions he made no adjustments over the back end of the season at all. Hence the team's good start and poor finish.

In the semi finals he got totally outcoached on the scout and his only adjustment was a line up adjustment in game 3. They got very lucky to get away with that series.

In game 1 he went with his usual schemes. Game two went with the triangle and 2, but once again their on-ball coverages get exposed with drag screens in transition in game 3 and Cotton began shooting off the bounce again.

I also find your claim that a line up of Newley, Lisch, Ware, Cooks, Bogut, Kickert and Bruce a roster of old unwanted players. That's rather amusing.

I love your passion mate for your Kings but it seems unlikely that I am going to get a counter post from you talking about the schemes and the scout as it doesn't seem like your knowledge of the game extends that deep. I wanted Sydney to win, but it pains me to see our league which has made great strides in recent years still fail on the coaching front because owners make the sexy coach hiring decision rather than the correct coach hiring decision.

Reply #804974 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this month

Weaver a big disappointment? Really?

When one considers how his subbing patterns and inability to adjust to the on court situation, his regular season success diminishes. I did not say he was crap, but he was outcoached.

And if their highest paid player goes for 2-17 instead of 1-17 in the first GF game they would have won the whole thing


Please we're not getting that desperate to pick and choose which shots Ware hits or misses are we?

Anybody here think Perth wins if Cotton is a no show in the finals like Ware?


This is about Ware the highest player not showing up in the GF. Stop deflecting that all teams would falter if their best player falters. Of course that is the case, but the highest paid player shouldn't fold the way he did.

In every presser all year long Sydney's coach preached players first. And in the end he cared more for his players being able to get back home than winning a trophy.


Ummm...the players refused to play and insisted on going home. The coach didn't send them home.

Reply #804979 | Report this post


FM  
Earlier this month

Losers when losing look for an excuse or an easy way out. Sydney was done, they had no ability to coach themselves out of it.

Terico White has proven in the finals previously he can step up and carry the team if Cotton is not having a great day. It is a pity that anyone who tried to step up for Sydeny got benched.

Reply #804985 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Earlier this month

At least in Casper's case there were a lot fewer people watching than when John Starks did it

Reply #804991 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

The problem with Ware is not so much that he disappeared against Perth, it's more that he was very much there... and throwing brick after brick!

Reply #805001 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this month

Wow, some people have short memories...

There were many, many posts during the season disputing the cost of Sydney's roster and ware in particular.
And yes, there were several claims (albeit probably from the same Kings supporter) that Ware did not leave for money but for some other reason related to him being pissed off.

And yes, the emphasis on highest-paid IMPORT is also telling, and hopefully pits paid to the notion that Bogut was playing for love & free Whoppers.

Reply #805006 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this month

The problem with Ware is not so much that he disappeared against Perth, it's more that he was very much there... and throwing brick after brick!

Good point - his bricks launched him into being an all-time great... of chokiest GF opposition players the Wildcats have faced.

Reply #805018 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Earlier this month

Some have it in them and some don't, Casper struggles too much on the biggest stage to be considered an all-time great player.

2018 GF vs Adelaide - 17.4ppg @ 41.4% (24% 3p)

2019 GF vs Perth - 15.3ppg @ 30% (22.2% 3p)

2020 GF vs Perth - 8.0ppg @ 20.5% (4.3% 3p)

Reply #805019 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Earlier this month

Casper Ware career NBL Grand Final stats:

12 games - 14.3ppg @ 32.2% (17.8% 3p)

Reply #805020 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

nothing wrong with his finals stats until this last series. had a mare but is still an extremely good player.

Reply #805022 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

How come people are only talking about the Grand final series? He was throwing up bricks the whole season. It was just at it's worst in the Grand final.

Reply #805023 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this month

Well if you want to be specific Ware actually started to go downhill towards the tail end of the 2018-19 regular season.

It's just the GF series stick out as that's when you'd expect a big money player like him to turn it on to justify the spend. Instead it's been consecutive GF series with home court advantage now resulting in failure at two different clubs. Wildcats are good but not that good. We thank you all-time bricklayer.

Lucky for him Paul Smith brute force cash spending came along when it did. Must be nice.

Reply #805024 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this month

Zodiac- nothing wrong with 17.4ppg at 41.4% in 2018 GF - that's about his usual FG%. The points are probably about average when you consider his reduced minutes in that series (missed the 2nd half of game 1) and that he must’ve had a sore back after Hodgson landed on him, forcing him out of Game 1.

In the 2018 semis vs NZ, he averaged 24ppg, 4.5apg and 4.0rpg. Game 1 being the showpiece, 33 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists.

In 2019 he destroyed Sydney in the semis, shooting 26ppg at 52% over 2 games, including 10 from 19 from 3.

In the 2019 GF, offensively underwhelming and found the going tough against the best defensive team in the league. Although, his defense on Cotton wasn’t bad.

And again, he won the 2016 GF MVP in France.

Casper’s offensive game isn’t quite elite. It’s very good, but not elite. There’s plenty of guards whose pure scoring ability exceeds Casper’s -eg: Trimble, Randle.

What makes Casper elite is the combination of all court game- offense, defense, and lifting his teammates with positive energy. The entire 2020 playoffs was the low point of his illustrious NBL career, so I really hope he returns - I don’t want that to be the last time we see him.

Given he's now 30, possible he's getting past his prime, but he should still have 2 or 3 elite years left in him at NBL level.

Reply #805043 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

"And again, he won the 2016 GF MVP in France."

So?

"There's plenty of guards whose pure scoring ability exceeds Casper’s -eg: Trimble, Randle."

Think you're missing a couple of guys.

"What makes Casper elite is...lifting his teammates with positive energy."

This isn't Hillsong.

Reply #805046 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Earlier this month

LV, did you read what I said? I said he's shit in NBL GF's. Semi-Finals and France are irrelevant in the NBL he routinely disappears on the biggest stage.

And no 17 ppg @ 41% shooting is not good that's poor. The guy has always been a chucker and gets exposed in GF's.

Reply #805050 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this month

Not just replying to you- replying to those who claimed in this thread that Ware struggles under pressure and doesn't do well on the big stage. Although that is a logical implication of what you're suggesting- even though you conveniently chose to only list a tiny sample size of 3 NBL GF's, rather than considering his wider body of work at the business end of professional seasons, which is far more relevant to the question of how he performs under pressure.

And actually, if you want to get really technical on the 2017-18 NBL GF, I'll point out that Casper's FG% and 3P% were better in that GF than they were for his entire 2017-18 season- where he made All NBL 1st team. His PPG was also slightly better, despite playing less minutes in the GF (due to Hodgson's clumsy fall).

Call him a "chucker" all you want- he's an elite defender, who can do it all at the offensive end- run the break, attack the hoop, rain threes, play at different paces, direct the offense, control the ball. A lower FG% isn’t the be all and end all.

Reply #805054 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

LV ultimate click bait

Reply #805055 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

LV,

You are right on the money, Casper is great player. How many GF has Randle, Trimble, etc got to or won. Casper is two way player.

Reply #805058 | Report this post




 

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