And now that I look ahead in the draw I see that we don't have classification games. Time to change feet in mouth.

How is our final finishing position determined? Glad they don't have to continue to play for inconsequential spots.

I want a lineup like this.

Giddey / Exum
Green / Mills
Thybulle / Daniels
White / Kay
Reath / Cooks

I feel sorry for Ingles, but I think young players should be given a chance.

So would you like Proctor and Zikarsky at the end of the bench?

Do you hate me?
Isn't this post you made discussing Boomers v Georgia?
Why are you mentioning Proctor and Zikarsky, who aren't even on the list?

You said that was the group you wanted, which I assume was intended for another thread. You then talked about giving young players a chance. I assumed you were thinking more long-term than the current squad. My misunderstanding.

Rather, I am sorry that I wrote an article that caused misunderstanding.
I'll be honest with you, I'd rather see Daniels play hard when given playing time than watch Ingles go over 26 minutes, scoreless, play no defense, and just protest.

The whole point of bringing Daniels was to give him a little taste of it ahead of Paris, so this is the game to give him a genuine run.

Some confidence would also help. It's always nice to finish a campaign with an impressive victory.

Play hard. Play D. If not, there's the bench. Apply this to everyone, including Giddey.

How is our final finishing position determined? Glad they don't have to continue to play for inconsequential spots.

In that case...


Provided we beat Georgia, our record or +/- with the same record should be better (>) or worse (<) or hard to estimate (?)

Group I
> Italy/PR
> DR (* provided Serbia win)

Group J
> Greece
> Montenegro

Group K
> Georgia

Group L
< Spain/Canada
> Latvia if Brazil win, ? Brazil if Latvia win

A quick assessment here, so could be wrong, but with a win over Georgia, Australia have a chance to finish 10th at best. 11th if the Brazil/Latvia margin and Australia/Georgia margin is favourable.

Could've been worse.

I agree. Don't need to start him but let Daniels have a decent run this game regardless of result. Give him the taste that will want him to put on the jersey next year. Same with White to a lesser extent.

It's a broken record but just ***maybe*** Simmons is in the team next year. I think he's the defence and speed we need in that 4 spot.

My Paris team is:-

Giddey/Exum
Green/Mills
Thybylle/Daniels
Simmons/Cooks
Landale/Reath

White & Goulding


Ingles and Kay are just too slow for this team now.

rjd, based on your quick calcs do any teams playing later than us get an advantage from knowing our score in terms of final placings?

We're the earliest game today (because FIBA headquarters) so are at a disadvantage although the majority of teams vying with us will be focused on solely advancing to the quarter finals (must be nice) in the two four-way 3-1 groups.

Anyway, I've believed we could win all games and accordingly tipped so, I’m really keen on winning this tonight so I’ll tip Georgia by two for a bit reverse psychology.

Only 2? You optimist!!

Starter

Giddey
Mills
Green
Kay
Reath

Boomers lineup and rotation are the same as against Slovenia.

White brought boomers back into the game against Germany, Cooks keeps dropping the ball, gets bench and they bring Kay back. Now I've stuck up for Kay but why not give White ago. Same old same old shit.

lol. Looks like a whole new team...
How many turnovers?

Mills man.., whole tournament with a blank stare. What's up with him?

Weedy, Patty is 35 years old. He's getting a lot of roles.

This is so depressing.

It's about as intense as Sunday afternoon game, nice to be winning easily though.

It's not him being 35, it’s all the other stuff he does prior and during the tournament.
The man did basketball camps, culture nights, Matildas watch party’s, ibl duties, fashion show... just in the 2 weeks before. + training commitments

They showed Mills' face after the Slovenia loss - he looked shattered.

I think he’s focussed more than grumpy, LOL

This is also why I wanted Maker.
Mills, Giddey, Ingles, and Kay are easily penetrated by opposing attackers in the primary defense, so having a shot blocker as a secondary defender is a huge help.
The defender who indirectly shows this is Cooks.

Once again shows how much the Boomers rely on Mills.

We have a bunch of role-player types. We are lacking scorers. Players who can take control at the offensive end.

Athletic wing role-players
Green, Thybulle, Exum, Daniels

Athletic bigs
Cooks, White

High IQ big
Kay

Stretch big
Reath

Marksman wing
Ingles

Facilitator
Giddey

Scorer + shooter
Mills
Goulding

It seems like Giddey has been trying to morph his game to be more of a scoring threat, but he will never be anywhere near the threat of Mills.

Landale will help, but we need more soon.

Shermadini is a walking meme.

It's okay if he can't do it, so I hope Green actively participates in the offense.

This is where the switching small-ball lineup needs to be an option, not a necessity. There's no choice once Reath sits down. Struggling to set strong screens. Struggling to contain opposition bigs near the basket. It can be exploited.

Ingles certainly one of those guys from ulucs article...

"Once again shows how much the Boomers rely on Mills. We have a bunch of role-player types. We are lacking scorers. Players who can take control at the offensive end."

This is why I think WMW should be seriously considered. If we are going to have a team largely full of finishers, and an offence reliant on the ball screen - moving away from the nice mix under Lemanis - then we need players with great understanding of how to run on-balls to create a range of shots, and Will is one of those.

Ingles causing trouble for no reason... typically what happens when you are near the end.

"Having a shot blocker as a secondary defender is a huge help.""

This is another big question mark for the Boomers. To play an aggressive defence you generally need players who can block shots to cover for mistakes. Who are those players? Cooks and White have shown they can do it, but there needs to be more in future tournaments, and preferably a genuine big as well.

6 turnovers for Patty??

Exum been solid, so too Reath.

I hope Green leads all offense from now on for the rest of the time.

Maybe?

PG Giddey / Mcdowell-White
SG Mills / TBD / Daniels
SF Exum / Green
PF Simmons / Cooks / White
C Landale / Reath

No, really fuck, why are Mills, Ingles and Kay on the floor?

Refs been good.

Mouse
"To play an aggressive defence you generally need players who can block shots to cover for mistakes"

Magnay worth a consideration?

"why are Mills, Ingles and Kay on the floor?"

Just another thing that Goorj isn't in charge of.

Good win in what was reasonably soft game.

Let's see who put there hand up over the next season and select a squad on form and not just reputation.

If there's no major coaching changes, I won't be surprised if one or two members of this current team elect not to take up future training camp invites

It feels like we lack a shooter, but looking back, we've scored decently freely. No one except occasionally Mills scores bulk points, but everyone can and does contribute.

It’s the defence that was the big problem. We’re extremely easy to score against. It’s incredibly frustrating to watch these journeymen from Japan and Georgia carve us apart with such ease. I don’t remember it ever being this bad this consistently. I’m not knowledgeable enough to pinpoint the exact issue, but I hope it gets addressed before the Olympics.

We had Bogut in the middle whonset screens blocked shots and cleaned the glass.
Reath is not that and Kay was undersized and not athletic enough to compete.

Reath another good game. We all thought that the Boomers had some secret new game plan for the actual tournament, so Reath's practice games performances weren't a sneak peek into his role in the tournament. Turns out there wasn't some hidden plan, but Reath wasn't played much anyway. Reath continued to be solid in his minutes. He knocked down the 3 (finished 6/8 at 75%). 4th leading scorer on a per minute basis. Rim protection (1.4bpg in under 15mpg). Worth noting that a big weakness was his rebounding (under 5 rebounds per 30 mins).

"We all thought that the Boomers had some secret new game plan for the actual tournament"

No team has that! The build-up is there for a reason, to hone what you want to do. But you expect the level of intensity and execution to go up with the real stuff on the line, especially by experienced players.

You also expect the coaching staff to have some good adjustments defending the ball-screen and below the level of the screen against different opponents in different situations etc that they don't show too much of in practice games.

Derider, That's a good point.
It's a question of lineup and rotation.
Boomers has a lot of good defensive players, but they don't have the ability to utilize them. That's why a change is needed in the coaching staff.
Mills 31.5 minutes, Giddey 27.7 minutes, Kay 23.5 minutes, Ingles 21.2 minutes.
Currently, players with poor defense are playing the longest. Because they are the main players of the offense.
However, because there are more than three of these players on the floor, defense is not possible.
This is why I hate the Giddey-Mills-Kay lineup so much.
It's a small ball, but they use a small ball that can't defend.
That's why we can't win in the first quarter against the best teams unless Mills scores a ton of points.

Gleesons paris squad


Giddey / Exum
Mills / Cotton / Goulding
Ingles / Green / Daniels
Kay / Simmons
Landale / Cooks



You can see the bias...

Has chosen to cut white, Reath and Thybulle.

At the end of the day, a coach who doesn't actively go against his squad's strengths gets us to the quarters. From there, who knows. But this was an abject failure.

It's just baffling that Goorj picked an athletic, versatile 12 with so many defensive weapons who can get up and down the floor, yet we constantly saw stagnant offence and line ups featuring mostly poor defenders. We pretty much always started slow, had the bench come in and bring us back by playing a more uptempo style, only to see us go back to that slow style and struggle.

It so often felt like Goorj hadn't actually seen his players play much. It was kind of ridiculous. Giddey break down his man off the dribble and be a midrange master? Of course he will! Kay defend the perimeter? Why not! 35 year old Ingles not only wind back the clock, but also turn into Mikal Bridges? How could he possibly not!

The team so often looked out of sync, like they had no idea what they were doing. The opposition so often took advantage of our weaknesses. Yeah the players are out there, but they can only do what they're capable of. It's up to coach(es) to put them in positions to thrive. That didn't happen.

He is biased ? Or maybe as a championship coach , one of the greatest ever in the NBL he maybe is looking for a team comp that is more balanced. Cotton got him great success so he knows the value Cotton brings.

Gleesons main comment at the end was "You have to beat one of the big teams to win a medal". Just hoping you will win a medal with just adding NBA players hasn't proven to be good enough in this tournament, you need to have the right squad balance.

Having a bunch of role players not going to do it.

Check out undefeated Slovenia - only Doncic plays in the NBA. Their team balances is what won it for them.
Link

How is having kay as the pf a balanced decision after this tournament? He wanted ingles in the s5 last game...

White should be in on performance, again I called for Gleeson to coach the squad but I do believe that it's biased. There will be very few changes if any, that’s just way it is.

On Gleeson's list I am not sure I would include Kay (to short) or Ingles (past his prime)

Feels like the fortunes rest too heavily on Kay. They constantly reverted to him for stability and he obviously lives off effort and smarts, but he's undersized and isn’t winning rebounding battles convincingly.

Third in minutes but fourth on the boards as the main big. Outrebounded by Mills and Giddey. Is Tobey neutralised better if they have Landale out there? Enough for it to matter?

Couldn’t work out what Ingles’ gripes were but he yapped on and on. Both teams were holding so I don’t think he was getting a raw deal.

We have a way of making random European roleplayers look exceptional.

McFadden was sub-5ppg prior to this game!

Gleeson has the ability to analyse what happens off the ball, he knows how important Kay is to the defensive end of the floor and the possession game. How often during the commentary of this tournament did he point out little things Kay did well? It's the sort of thing all his coaches have known, but those who just watch the ball often miss.

Can you imagine how bad Gleeson's starting five would be? Not a single bloke who can defend the perimeter, just about zero rim protection and all of one guy who can regularly get their shot own off - a 36 year old 5'11 shooting guard.

Good grief.

Gleesons list is good apart from goulding, Kay and ingles.

-If cotton is an add in, absolutely no time for Goulding.
-Ingles is past it, what could he possibly add these days with another year on the body at 37.
-Kay is too small, could not get rebounds and was one of our worst players all tournament.
He avg 6.4 pts, 4.6 rbds playing 24 mins a game. Cooks avg 9 pts, 5.6 rbds in just 17 mins.

Smith- Milner, second in the highlight package, Sixers another winner.

Kay is very important cog, Cooks had two good games, in saying all that I'm not convinced on either but that’s why I sit in my lounge room.

He was important in Tokyo. He was a liability this tournament.
24 mins a game, only behind mills and Giddey

Both Kay and Cooks would be more effective if we have an actual centre in the squad so they can play more of their natural positions, and if we have an offensive system with good spacing and ball movement. Both were important defensively and in the possession game.

Gleeson's too close to Kay to be objective. Aside from coaching him at the Wildcats he even said he was working out with Kay in Perth prior to the WC. Kay was exposed defensively at this WC. The Cotton inclusion is Gleeson playing to the locals, he's not even naturalised and his time has been and gone.

Those that watch off-the-ball shifts know Kay was one of our most important pieces defensively (FWIW he had the highest defensive rating & 3rd for +/-), and Gleeson and Goorjian know that.

Olgun wrote:

Brian Goorjian on whether he'll continue on as head coach of the Australian Boomers for the 2024 Paris Olympics: "100%."

One drawback of having so much height is usually slower foot speed and less agility on defense. We also have a bit of age to factor in.

I noticed that many of our guys, especially Giddey Kay Ingles and Cooks were easily beaten by someone with a quick first step or crossover, especially when our guys moved up close on their man to stop the shot.

My picks currently:

Giddey / Simmons
Mills / Exum / Daniels
Green / Thybulle
White / Cooks
Landale / Reath / Zikarsky

Sorry Kay, Goulding and Ingles. All have been contributors at some point but just like Delly there must be a time to move on.

This gives us:
Two of the top 5 perimeter defenders in the world: Thybulle and Simmons
Two of the top passers in the world: Giddey and Simmons
Two decent bigs in Landale and Reath plus a developmental monster in Zikarsky. We have solid talls in Simmons, White and Cooks behind them (who need to also crash the boards)
We have a number of players that can 'score' and shooters in Mills and Green. I think many under-appreciate Green’s ability to be a shooter- those who watched a undermanned Mavs team last season know.
A young energetic core that should be able to outrun most teams and wear them down

Now we just need a coach that can utilise these strengths. Run plays around this. Make our system a defensive beast like it has the ability to.

Most of all we need some heart back. If we are going to go down we do it with some heart and courage. Maybe we need Delly on sideline staff!

Reath showing how under utilised he was in this tournament

Proctor is another consideration but he is projected as high as 2nd in some mock drafts. He may be shutdown given it is not long after the draft. He will be a 2026 debutant I'd imagine,

@ hoopie, totally agree, Giddey, Kay, Cooks and Inglis so easily beaten of the dribble, never seems to be mentioned though.

Kay was more effective under Lemanis where the offence did the work and he ended up open for the bunny.
This WC the offence was a more basic, use your athleticism deal. That's not Kay. You can't throw him the ball and expect him to operate at this level. He's a receiver, not a facilitator. The switching D exposed his lack of foot speed and he got torched against the quicker guards. If this style is to stay then he is a casualty unfortunately.
Gotta get the ball out of Giddey's hands. Goorj said as much at the presser after the Slovenia loss albeit not naming names. Interestingly the main offender was sitting next to him.
There were factions in this group and they didn't gel.
The old guard, Mills, Ingles, Kay, Goulding, Exum
Then the young guys who are a little entitled, Giddey, Damiels maybe Green.
Then the go with the flow group, Thybulle, Reath, White, Cooks.

The friction is between the old guard and the young guys. Goorj made a mistake handing the team to a 20 year old. Yes, ultimately that has to happen but this WC was not it. Nothing has been earnt and this would piss the old guys off who have battled to get Australia recognised on the world stage over so many years. Goorj knows this and don't be surprised to see Delly back or MWM for Paris, who are specialist point guards. Just for the times when Giddey goes rogue and we need to run some offence and get others involved.

"Those that watch off-the-ball shifts know Kay was one of our most important pieces defensively (FWIW he had the highest defensive rating & 3rd for +/-), and Gleeson and Goorjian know that."

Those not trying to be smarter than they actually are know Kay being absolutely abused on switches cost us the Germany game. He's a great glue guy, but this tournament the good little things were outweighed by his deficiencies and he should not have played the third most minutes.

(And Exum was our 9th best players based on +/-. You think that Joe Ingles was better than Dante Exum? That's why +/- over small sample sizes is never taken seriously.)

Olgun wrote:

Brian Goorjian: "There's some holes in this. We need another big, and we need a couple more shooters in our group. Again, the picture’s clear. I didn’t think we were that far off it."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm really worried. Goorjian is mistaken.
Our biggest problem in this World Cup was team defense.
Adding a few more shooters right now won't change the results.
If we prepare our team defense like this, we will never advance to the quarterfinals.

PARIS for me

6'8 Giddey / ...
6’0 Mills / 6’0 Cotton / 6’7 Daniels
6’6 Green / 6’6 Exum
6’10 Simmons / 6’8 Cooks / …
6’11 Landale / 6’11 Reath
+
1…(6’5 Mcdowell-White, 6’5 Proctor), -Exum/Simmons can also play pg
1…(7’0 Maker, 6’9 Pinder, 6’7 White), mobile, rim protector, high motor, good d

Cutting
Goulding
Thybulle
Ingles
Kay

Smokey as development 12th man
6’6 Galloway SF - best wing guy coming through
7’2 Zikarsky C - probably 1 year to young.

Proctor 22/23 freshman highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Nrtk8nWxg



Mcdowell-white 22/23 season highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6D9e3Ri0sw&t=195s

Cotton would have been handy this tournament, pity Basketball Australia disagreed

I like Gleeson's team.

As good as Thybulle has been, especially in Tokyo, and as much as he brings good vibes to the team, bringing in Cotton would add something different and needed.

Simmons, Cooks (or White), Green, Exum and Daniels bring many of the same attributes as Thybulle. None of them are quite as good at picking off passes as Thybulle, but the overall balance of the group improves by adding Cotton's scoring.

"There's some holes in this. We need another big"

Another big? That's stating the obvious. Does someone want to remind him that a capable 7 footer was cut prior to the warm up games?

"and we need a couple more shooters in our group"
More shooters? From a coach who didn't even play his specialist shooter?
What a way to contradict onself.

"Again, the picture's clear. I didn’t think we were that far off it."

They looked so out of sorts both offensively and defensively that Id say on the basis of this campaign, they are far off.

Coach seems to be in denial.

Yeah if that Goorjian quote is legit he seems so out of sorts he should probably be tapped on the shoulder before Paris. Bizarre quote given he only picked one centre and didn't play Goulding at all.

Simmons and Cooks in the same team, now that's a quality free throw, jump shot combination.

One change I'd make from Gleeson's team is Reath over Cooks.

With Simmons there, don't need Cooks. Reath fits better just like Cotton would.

As Gleeson said, you wouldn't play Giddey, Simmons and Thybulle together. Same applies to Cooks. If Simmons is your 3/4 man, you wouldn't have Cooks. You'd pick Reath to space the floor.

Much depends on Simmons. If he has a good NBA season and is genuinely healthy and available you want guys who fit alongside him and Giddey- which means shooters. In that context Gleesons team makes sense with Cotton and Goulding going. But again, same logic justifies Reath.

Cooks a rebounder and someone who can defend perimeter would be in combo with a big who can shoot like Reath in the 2nd unit.

Watch the press conference lol, goorj been looking at socials and Gleesons comments.

Absolutely need to consider Vasiljevic for the Olympics. Game will be well suited to FIBA and we need his shooting

On what planet is Ben Simmons playing for the Boomers? About as likely as Margot Robbie knocking on my door to announce she has come to her senses.

This tournament showcases the depth of bball talent around the world

Boomers just easily beat Georgia. Who weren't a medal fancy

Their bigs- 2 NBA guys. A 2* Spanish league MVP. And a Euroleague starter (who didn't play tonight).

And this is a team who wasn't a contender

Then you look at a team like Latvia. Full of lights out shooters. And they've got another guy who hit 6 threes in game 1 but hasn't played since game 2 (Dairus Bertans) And missing their best player too (Porzingis).

But a tiny little country and they've knocked off the two great powerhouses of Europe from the last decade Spain and France. Who will likely both miss the quarters (If Canada beats Spain tonight).

Agreed Gus3232, not sure why everyone keeps bringing up Simmons. There is not a snowflakes chance in hell he will ever play for the Boomers.

Cooks defends under the bucket, his perimeter defence is average at best.

We saw Kay on the perimeter, Worked out well. Torched in every game as soon as he stepped outside of the key.

Goorjian and Ingles both adamant they'll be in Paris.

Ingles wants goorj to continue because he will end up on the team.

The next major post Olympics is 2027 WC. Do people really want to wait until then to make changes?

Derider, That's a good point.
It's a question of lineup and rotation.
Boomers has a lot of good defensive players, but they don't have the ability to utilize them. That's why a change is needed in the coaching staff.
Mills 31.5 minutes, Giddey 27.7 minutes, Kay 23.5 minutes, Ingles 21.2 minutes.
Currently, players with poor defense are playing the longest. Because they are the main players of the offense.
However, because there are more than three of these players on the floor, defense is not possible.
This is why I hate the Giddey-Mills-Kay lineup so much.
It's a small ball, but they use a small ball that can't defend.
That's why we can't win in the first quarter against the best teams unless Mills scores a ton of points.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I wrote this comment just a few hours ago.
However, I think I will write the same comment again next year.
I'm really sad.

They know this, but they did not change the lineup still.

The friction is between the old guard and the young guys. Goorj made a mistake handing the team to a 20 year old. Yes, ultimately that has to happen but this WC was not it. Nothing has been earnt and this would piss the old guys off who have battled to get Australia recognised on the world stage over so many years. Goorj knows this and don't be surprised to see Delly back or MWM for Paris, who are specialist point guards. Just for the times when Giddey goes rogue and we need to run some offence and get others involved.

What goorj said before WC and after, mate you are diggin a hole....

He doesn't seem as sharp anymore and is 70.

"I'm not embarrassed." was one of his comments quoted? *facepalm*

Mistake to give Giddey the keys?

The team looked best when Giddey was along side Exum and Green, and Mills off the court.

The closest thing we had to a go to bucket was Giddey forcing his way to the hops and going for and-1's

The time we clawed back to four points vs Slovenia was on Giddey's back.

The first quarter today was symptomatic of our back court issues, Mills had 4 turnovers in the first quarter, including one where we had a 3v2 fast break, and Mills dribbles the air out of the ball, straight into the defender for a turnover, when our leads were both on each sideline for a 2v1.

Exum shot 7/15 3FG, and Green liked smooth on set for shots, ral smooth. Hard to believe he was a 16% 3FG when he started in the NBA.

Mills, at best, is Goulding's role moving forward.

Our best play is when Giddey us in charge, and we can get our 3FG from kick outs.

How is our final finishing position determined? Glad they don't have to continue to play for inconsequential spots.

If Spain lose to Canada, which is in progress right now, by at least 15 then we take 9th.

(Margin of exactly 15 goes to 'points for' tiebreaker (AUS 469; ESP 344 plus whatever they score in the current game meaning they would require 125 points.)

Spain are leading now so it's going to be #10.

The players aren't the problem.
Giddey is not a problem. Having fewer shooters isn't a problem either.
The exact problem is team defense and lineup & rotation.

Giddey / Exum / Daniels
Green/ Mills/ Goulding
Thybulle / Ingles
White / Kay
Reath / Cooks

I wanted to have this lineup in this World Cup.
I think I posted the same comment more than 10 times. I'm sorry about this.
I spoke clearly. It should be divided into Giddey's lineup and Mills' lineup.
This lineup was created with both offense and defense in mind.
It's not about the starters and the bench.
Giddey doesn't need a player like Kay. He needed defense, speed, and athleticism that Giddey didn't have.
The same goes for Mills. He doesn't want a catch-and-shooter in the Boomers. Mills wants to play on the ball. Rather than a player like Giddey, he just needs a backcourt partner and passer to defend next to him.

Did they really pick the wrong players for this World Cup??? no. There would have been better results if the lineup and rotation had been done properly.

#10 = Fail

Let's face it, #9-#14.could give the boomers problems.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's on the coach.

Gleeson made a very good point regardless of whether you agree with his team for Paris - if Simmons is playing, it's impossible to have Giddey/Thybulle/Simmons on the court together.

Add in Landale as a questionable stretch big (his NBA numbers aren't good), and even Giddey/Simmons/Landale looks questionable with the lack of shooting.

I don't think it'll happen, but Bryce Cotton would be so much better of a fit to play instead of Thybulle *IF* Simmons does play.

I think Brian Goorjian is strongly arguing that.

Haha, well der.

Remember last year when Cotton had no chance of being a boomer with Thybulle around...
It was about 95% against Cotton. Now it looks more 60/40 for Bryce to join looking at the socials.

Simmons will never play for the Boomers again. No point putting him in any future squads. May as well put Ronald McDonald in there.

"They looked so out of sorts both offensively and defensively that Id say on the basis of this campaign, they are far off."

As much as they didn't seem to have an offensive game plan, and as much as they looked disjointed on defense with many holes, they were one shot off beating Germany which might've been qualification into the top 8. So maybe Goorj means their results weren't far off advancing, not speaking about how far off they were from their potential due to lack of balance/coaching/preparation?

What's the rationale behind Cotton now? I get the shooting part, but that's a very isolated part of the problem. Goulding could've been a shooting option, a bigger body shooting option who doesn't need tricky step-backs to create space to launch. Is Cotton going to be anywhere near as effective in international ball?

Is Cotton seen as a backup for Mills? Surely he can't play alongside Mills. Switching lineups don't appear to be an option with Cotton. So one of the main benefits of having so many tall guards, athletic wings and athletic bigs off the bench who can switch on everything, well, that's gone.

I see Cotton as an option if Mills is out injured, but I see more problems than solutions otherwise given our personnel.

Of all the teams currently in the quarterfinals, none of them have a player who is 6'0". However, if we choose Cotton, we will have two players who are 6'0". The team's defense is not good right now, but if Cotton is added, another defensive problem will arise.
Mills and Cotton cannot play together, and if the Boomers selects Cotton, it means that they will continue to play Mills as a starter. This is not the right way. Mills will have to come off the bench. Stats are not the answer.
We now have no Bogut, Baynes, Ingles or Delly. This is a new team.

Cotton is a way better creator than Goulding, so I'm assuming that is one of the big attractions of having him in the mix.

Guards have been progressively getting bigger in the NBl and Cotton still leads the scoring charts each year and top 2-3 MVP.

Elite Scorers will score. how many games you seen Cotton a defensive liability? Very few as they too focused on stopping him on the other end with double teams.

He moves people around as they chase him. He ain't a spot shooter like Goulding.


The facilitators...
Giddey / McdowellWhite

The constantly moving shooters who shoot close to 40%…
Mills / Cotton

The penetrating athletic wings who can defend and shoot close to 40%…
Green / Exum

The athletic rebounding rim protecting forward who can defend inside and out, switch and start the break
Simmons/Cooks

The bigs who can stretch the floor, have a high motor and run the lanes.
Landale/Maker

The extra 2 specialists?
Daniels - an elite perimeter defender guarding 1-3
White - a hard working forward who can defend 2-4
Reath - a rolling stretch big
Proctor - a shot creator
Pinder - athletic mobile rim protector and rebounder
Vasiljevic - knock down spot shooter

Leagues and international competitions are different. Will Cotton be defended at international level the way he was defended in NBL? no. The USA and Canada have more attackers, but not all of them get double-teamed.
The shortest player on Latvia's 12-man roster is 6'3". They were able to defend even with all the switches.
But if Latvian Guards come to the NBL, will they be able to make a bigger impact than Cotton? no.
This is a special characteristic of leagues and international competitions.
But having two 6'0" players is definitely unsettling.
Even now, we are experiencing severe defensive breakdowns in terms of Mills and Giddey.
Mismatches are bound to occur.
The inevitable difference in size forces the rest of the players to help them in the team's defense.
I am against putting Cotton and Mills on the list together. I only want one person.

We didn't lose because we didn't have enough shot makers. They lost because the team defense was poor.

And you think by keeping the same pieces the outcome will be different? The team needs 1 or 2 big bodies to back up Jock and then if CG's role was only sightseeing then bring a replacement that will be used. I still think that the current team had too many similar players who didn't have time to adapt and that won't change - most of them will go away and play for their teams mainly in the NBA where the defense is played one on one and then will come back to try to fit into a style that would be effective. No wonder they struggled with recovery after doubling or missing way too many box outs. For a team with a claim to be one of the best if not the best defensive team ever assembled telling them that their defense suck is not a compliment.

I don't get the fascination with Cotton, I mean I get it from WA folks but Cotton over Goulding come on. Obviously Goulding was at least still injured this WC but he's proven internationally, a lot taller than Cotton and able to get his shots off against the biggest and longest of opponents.

Cotton plays in a bubble. He's the man on the Wildcats and the whole team is focused around setting multiple screens getting him open for good looks. Without it he wouldn't be able to get much in the way of good looks off and certainly wouldn't in international ball against bigger, longer and more athletic defenders than you get in the NBL. He's a poor man's Patty.

And Cotton's not even available for selection so it's a moot point really. Even if he does become naturalised before the Olympics you're only allowed one naturalised player and I wouldn't pick him over Thybulle.

When the defence was lacking, Cotton doesn't solve that. When Exum, Green and Thybulle could've all argued for more minutes, what's Daniels going to do? Unless his spot goes to someone improving on Kay's role, I'm not sure we'd dramatically improve.

Exum, Reath and Green all shot well from three. Patty solid also. Seemed like Ingles had something in his head second-guessing shots because unless he's shooting and making them, what else was he bringing to the squad? He attempted 1 shot per game within the arc, playing as one of our bigger players half the time. What if all his minutes had gone to White?

Reath seemed underplayed, but I assume the coaches think we lose structure relative to Kay? 81% FG, 75% 3P. Didn't get a lot of boards, to be fair.

Thybulle is an easy drop. Just another role player there because "he is in the NBA" rather than is he a right fit for a winning team. Goulding went 1-6 shooting for this tournament and didn't build any confidence to use him - so that idea already failed.

Cotton doesn't play in a bubble. He is the most defended player in the NBL bar none. The cats wone championships due to him despite having a much poorer talented team around him compared to other clubs. If he wasn't injured the year United won (with a better squad) they would have not likely won the grand final series.

With him as a team mate, the other stars he plays with end up being selected in the NBL all star 5 (Mooney, Law etc..) So he elevates the performance of those around him. He also will take the big shots, how many did we see on the Fiba games our NBA stars pass up open looks.

With cotton on the team running around screens and causing havoc it opens up the ball for many other players to improve. Suddenly your bigs are far more open and getting open layups or 3 pointers.

There are not a lot of choices for mobile shooters in the Australian squad, too many play a similar role and style. @Weedy Slug summarised it perfectly.

Cotton over Thybulle every time for me, yes Thybulle had a good Olympics but was very average at WC, Cotton has X factor.
From everything that has been reported though I can't see any changes or minimal at best. Delly must be feeling very unlucky as the only one dropped. Inglis isn’t going anywhere even though he should,

Even when you look forward, we still have a SG issue


1995-2006 (The FUTURE)

6'2 Vasljevic (1997) SG
6’4 Proctor (2004) PG - SG
6’4 Glover (1998) SG - PG
6’5 Mcdowell-White (1998) PG - SG
6’5 Armstrong (2002) PG
6’5 Hawke (2004) SG
6’5 King (2002) SF - SG
6’5 Henshall (2004) SG - SF
6’5 Thybulle (1997) SF
6’6 Exum (1995) PG - SF - SG
6’6 Green (2000) SF - SG
6’6 Fennell (2006) SG - SF
6’6 Galloway (2002) SF - SG
6’6 Siulepa (2006) SF - PF
6’7 Daniels (2003) SG - PG - SF
6’7 Amir (2005) SF
6’7 Furphy (2004) SF
6’7 Ducas (2000) SF
6’7 Travers (2001) SF - PF
6’7 White (1997) PF - SF
6’8 Giddey (2002) PG - SF
6’8 Mcveigh (1998) SF - PF
6’8 Toohey (2004) SF - PF
6’8 Cooks (1995) PF - C
6’9 Pinder (1995) C - PF
6’10 Simmons (1996) PF - PG - C
6’10 Olbrich (2003) C - PF
6’10 Magnay (1998) C - PF
6’10 Hunter (1997) C
6’11 Gak (2002) PF - C
6’11 Maker (2000) PF - C
6’11 Landale (1995) C
6’11 Condon (2004) C
6’11 Humphries (1998) C
6’11 Reath (1996) C - PF
7’0 Froling (2000) C - PF
7’0 Maker (1997) C - PF
7’1 Wessels (2002) C
7’3 Zikarsky (2006) C

We'll see Goorjian again next year, and Ingles, Mills, Giddey and Kay are likely locks. Because they are the players who played the most minutes in the last game.
How would the team defend if another 6'0" Cotton came in?
Did Cotton lack talent when he won in Perth? Yes, they may have lacked talent, but Perth was the best team for him and they had good balance.
So, what will be the roster of the Boomers that Cotton joins?
Giddey and Mills should still play together and Cotton should play with Ingles. Kay is still on the floor.
We all have mismatches one way or another.
This is our World Cup starter.
Giddey
Mills
Green
Kay
Reath
Wouldn't there be a mismatch if Landale came in here instead of Reath?
Basically, Giddey-Mills-Kay is a lineup that fails defensively.
They target not only team defense but also individual defense.
Our team's average score in the World Cup is 93.8 points. It ranks 5th overall. As many goals as we scored, we easily allowed our opponents to score.
Having two or more bad defenders on the floor means that the team's defense is broken.
The strengths of players from the best teams in Europe are their size, fundamentals, and organizational skills. All players know how to take advantage of mismatches. This is their weapon and one of the reasons USA was defeated yesterday.
Why have we beaten European teams so far? Because the defense didn't collapse. There was no mismatch. This is because there were not many players whose weakness was defense.
However, the veterans' defense skills have declined as they get older, and Giddey, the main ball handler, also has a weakness in defense.
Giddey is not the type of defender like Exum or Delly.

So for Brisbane 2032, assuming people born 1998 and later are playing:

6'4 Proctor (2004) PG - SG
6’4 Glover (1998) SG - PG
6’5 Mcdowell-White (1998) PG - SG
6’5 Armstrong (2002) PG
6’5 Hawke (2004) SG
6’5 King (2002) SF - SG
6’5 Henshall (2004) SG - SF
6’6 Green (2000) SF - SG
6’6 Fennell (2006) SG - SF
6’6 Galloway (2002) SF - SG
6’6 Siulepa (2006) SF - PF
6’7 Daniels (2003) SG - PG - SF
6’7 Amir (2005) SF
6’7 Furphy (2004) SF
6’7 Ducas (2000) SF
6’7 Travers (2001) SF - PF
6’8 Giddey (2002) PG - SF
6’8 Mcveigh (1998) SF - PF
6’8 Toohey (2004) SF - PF
6’10 Olbrich (2003) C - PF
6’10 Magnay (1998) C - PF
6’11 Gak (2002) PF - C
6’11 Maker (2000) PF - C
6’11 Condon (2004) C
6’11 Humphries (1998) C
7’0 Froling (2000) C - PF
7’1 Wessels (2002) C
7’3 Zikarsky (2006) C


Who is in the team?

Giddey
Green
Proctor
Zikarsky
Travers

From 'Gold Vibes only' to we're 'rebuilding, be patient'. Sounds like the narrative changes to suit the circumstance.

Makur Maker's younger brother

Maper Maker (Class of 2025)

7'0 Maper Maker (2006) C
ESPN 13th, Five star
247sports 31st, Four Star
On3 65th, Four Star
Rivals 93rd, Four Star

I don't know the future, but in my opinion, he can become a better player than Makur.

I think the Boomers need to look outside of the box for answers. The general public and apparently even the coaching staff have 15 names they keep repeating and for as long as we assume that the best options for the team have to be the NBA guys we set ourselves up for the results we've just seen.

Let's take a look at Latvia, do the even have a real NBA presence? What about Lithuania, who just beat Team USA. Is it like 3 NBA players?

Sure, most people would simply assume that NBA players are always going to be better than guys who aren't, but our NBA players are always role players and as we see in our forward line up, those roles are very much same-same and involve not shooting or even scoring the basketball.

The teams that are in the quarterfinals right now can defend and shoot the ball. It's really as simple as that. For our much vaunted length and athleticism, we proved to be able to do neither at the world cup. And if we don't consider some big changes, we're not going to improve on that with another major piece that can't shoot the ball (Simmons).

Obviously, there's a premium on big men as well. Goorjian himself said it (and yet opted to only have one traditional centre at the world cup, he said the same about shooters and we know how that went).

So for me, the following guys are cut - Joe Ingles, Nick Kay, and I am questioning Matisse Thybulle even if Cotton is not available. If you're 100 in defense and yet a zero in offense you're worth about as much as a 50/50 player and we cant afford black holes on the team.

Xavier Cooks may not be necessary in a team with Ben Simmons on it - obviously that's a whole nother can of worms.

So in the vein of looking at some 'outside the box' options, let's go over what some other options may be, shall we?

---- Isaac Humphries ----

This will be form dependant. I am not going to pretend he's the best player out there but he has a lot of the physical attributes the team lacks.

---- Luke Travers ----

A bit of a 'younger Ingles' in a way, can create, improving shot. But with Joey's shot being a non-thing in FIBA I see this as an upgrade

---- Johnny Furphy -----

I believe he's 6'8 and CAN SHOOT. He's a college kid and you're gonna catch shit for choosing a college kid but we did it in 1988 and it turned out okay.

----- Tyrese Proctor ------

Even if deep on bench.

------ Rocco Zikarsky ----

12th man for experience

----- Alex Toohey ----

See Furphy

----- DJ Vaselivic -----

Shooting

----- Jonah Bolden ----

Walking away from the Boomers is a dick move but if he can get his game back and has learned some humility he's a piece we would very much appreciate.

"From 'Gold Vibes only' to we're 'rebuilding, be patient'. Sounds like the narrative changes to suit the circumstance."


Exactly this. The program failed abysmally. I'd have far more confidence in Goorjian if he admitted that the team (and he) failed this time. But no, sounds like they're going to keep doing what they're doing and chalk it up to some sort of 7 year plan, as though we really can waste two olympic cycles not being contenders with the talent we have.

And can we address this - culture, rebuild, whatever. None of those effected Canada or most of the teams at the cup. And much of the line up was the same as the one at Tokyo.

@ME,I like your suggestion to introduce names that are not typically considered, and your list is good.
That list alone (with the addition of WMW) could give this current boomers team some good competition.

I also think a healthy Magnay deserves consideration too

Agree @Pablo, the narrative changed quick.
Sounds more like a case of denial than anything else.
I don't say this as a personal dig at all, but going back to Tokyo, why on earth did the coach not call a timeout when USA went on their 10-0 run which saw us cough up a 15 point lead and lose the game?? He then lectured the team to lift their heads after the defeat.
That, along with his defensive demeanour in the press conferences sugfests that he's not willing to accept responsibility.

Then to say last night in the press conference that "we're close".....

Yes, our 2 losses were by close margins, but for the talent we had, we looked a lot worse than the score indicated.
So many times we looked lost on offense and beated in the defensive half court.
Guys dribbling into the key then passing to a team mate on the perimeter with a defender on them.
Yes, we saw some good back door plays, but they were like clockwork under Lemanis.
Slovenia had an effective response to the full game doubling of Doncic.

Playing the way we did, had we advanced past the second round, we would have been demolished by any one of Serbia, Montenegro, Canada, Spain, Lithuania.......etc

Yeah a lot of denial and face saving. Now suddenly this was a "transitional tournament". Walking in talking gold medals though, it just seems like changing the goal posts. But really we should have seen this coming. They handed the keys to a kid. It was basically the Next Stars program but for the national team. Like Giddey in Adelaide or LaMelo in Illawarra that kid tends to get his numbers but the teams don't win. I dom't think any reasonable person would say Giddey didn't play well at the cup but I think there were plenty of times he wasn't quite up to running the team or controlling the tempo and that he could have been used in a slightly lesser role for a better team outcome. Successful FIBA teams MOVE THE FUCKING BALL and if he's going to keep it in his hands so much it's really not going to get better for us.

Not sure where to post this, so it's going here. It concerns Patty.

WHAT IF...Patty could exit the NBA and get a playing role in Europe, like Dante, or even Oz like so many others including Delly, until the Olymps. Get him regular court time in top competition before his next and possibly last oiting for HIS beloved country and team.

Imagine a "back-to-normal" Patty with Ben and the new kids, led by Giddey. Ll

I hate that Patty had such a tournie and that that may define him long-term. For the Boomers' sake and mainly for Patty's sake. Deserves nothing but accolades and not to end his international rep in tatters.

GO PATTY!

ps:did not read all posts so if something similar, earlier or elsewhere, sorry!

Travers is definitely a name that might be in Boomers consideration in the next few years.

Zikarsky is very young but the signs are very good.

Bolden may be a surprise challenger to Maker, Froling and Pinder for a training camp spot for Paris.

6 or 7 years ago who knew Broekhoff would retire at 32? Who knew Bolden would retire and return? Who knew Maker would struggle to make an NBA impact and not play major tournaments for the Boomers? Who knew Simmons would end up the disappointment he's become? Who knew injuries would end Bairstow's career?

On the other hand who knew Thybulle would join Australia and become a Bronze medallist and a core part of the team? Who knew Exum would return from injuries and go likewise? Who knew Landale would become an NBA big on a $32million contract and his absence would render us without a genuine big?

Point is, if you rewind 5-6 years and did a "future Boomers list" you'd be way off. These long range predictions have limitations. They're almost pointless. As fun as they may be. And I do agree they're fun

Well said, ME.

My take on Giddey's passing is that he spends too much time waiting to give the brilliant Instagramable pass rather than just pass for the sake of passing, to make defences move and create opportunities for others.

Finland: Markkanen had 19.
Japan: Hawkinson had 33 on 13/16 FG, plus 4 offensive boards.
Slovenia: Tobey had 18 on 8/10 FG, plus 5 offensive boards.
Georgia: Shermadini had 16 on 5/6 FG

The Germany game was the only one where a big didn't have their way.

I think we are in a bit of a transition and not likely to be a top 4 team in 2024, but could bounce back fairly quickly in 2028.

So I would mostly skew young(ish) with this team

Unless someone really pops up in the next 6-12 months i'd be picking the next 12 man roster from these guys

Landale/Maker/Humphries/Zikarsky
Simmons/Cooks/White
Green/Thybulle/Travers
Giddey/Mills/Vasiljevic
Exum/Daniels/McDowell-White/Proctor

I wont consider Cotton until he is eligible

Im open to Reath and Maker but would ideally want them playing in stronger leagues to prepare than China/Japan (Kay probably falls into this basket too, after not a great tournament)

Also would look at Ducas and Furphy if wanting more shooting

If Ingles and Delly have good seasons in NBA/NBL I would give them a camp invite too, I expect Goorj takes Ingles to Paris, but Im not sure I would.

I dont want to see anyone else not mentioned on the Boomers especially guys like Goulding/Sobey, time to give someone else a go given they never do much

Finland: Markkanen had 19.
Japan: Hawkinson had 33 on 13/16 FG, plus 4 offensive boards.
Slovenia: Tobey had 18 on 8/10 FG, plus 5 offensive boards.
Georgia: Shermadini had 16 on 5/6 FG

The Germany game was the only one where a big didn't have their way.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason why I thought the team's defense collapsed, including Isaac's comment

To summarize briefly:
1) Giddey and Mills
2) C Kay
3) PF Ingles

To elaborate:
1) Giddey and Mills are weak in one-on-one defense. Also, it cannot respond to mismatches. So Mills and Giddey's nearby teammates have no choice but to provide help defense. In the end, the opponent can easily get an open chance with a few passes.

2) This is my personal opinion, but the Boomers lacks faith in Reath. This is because we believe Reath lacks understanding of team defense. In fact, Reath was very slow in coming back from helping Giddey and Mills and was lacking in activity. Therefore, the time Kay plays in the C increases. In this way, the opponent does not feel threatened by rim protectors at all. There is a big difference in size and athletic ability. Also, Kay's speed is slow.
Has anyone seen Kay play in the Japanese league? Then you will know. Kay does not play the C in Japan. Even in less competitive leagues, he doesn't play small-ball 5. By the way, he is doing it in international competitions.

3) Ingles is not what it used to be. As you get older, your defensive skills may decline. However, Ingles was at the level of not playing defense. There is no competition at all in the SF. The Boomers seemed to want to use Ingles as much as possible, so he spent more time playing in the PF. It led to the worst decision in the match against Slovenia.

final summary
Teams that advance to the quarterfinals rarely have mismatches, so they don't use much help defense or double teams and hard hedges. Because these defenses are a bit of a gamble. That doesn't mean you don't do it at all. They have a very good understanding of defense, are highly trained, and have very high help and recovery defense.
However, the Australian team had many players with poor defense on the floor. The lineup and rotation were terrible, but in interviews they said they lacked shooters and big men, and many people were under the illusion that the offense was the problem, not the defense.

Yeah bigs were certainly an issue - when you have to over resource to avoid getting beaten badly by bigs that exposes every other area - perimeter defence, hands in the lanes, positioning and spacing etc.

It means they get to those spots late for the open shot or have to run the player off the three point line and that's effectively creating 5 on 4 at all times. It’s not effective against any offence that moves the ball in a euro style (ie those that don’t use much iso).

Agreed re Reath - he is played inconsistently probably because of his defence. His shot was on point this tournament.

Agreed Ingles has lost a step. He needed to be played as a 3 not a 4.

Agreed re Giddey and his defence. Giddey is such an odd one to fit in because he’s neither good at shooting or defence and gets in trouble if he plays PG but he’s also 6’8. He’s kind of a positionless player.

Next year hopefully they’ll have a few more options and they can think about roles a bit better to make sure it’s less funky because funky didn’t work.

While the team were inconsistent, the crux for me was the lack of adjustment during the Slovenia game. Germany was a knifeedge against a team that later proved to be in mix of better teams. But with Slovenia, Doncic fouls went our way, we fought back to have a chance, and then handed them points on a platter continually. Surely after they pass out of double teams for easy baskets, you try something different with the defensive strategy?

I give Giddey a pass because he's a "make things happen" guy, and the Boomers without that can get stuck if there's not a strong big or clear shot. You lose out on some facets, but generally he'll find ways to contribute. +8.6/game was second on the team, and I think 5 RPG is useful from a guard.

Given that we'll probably have Giddey, Green, Daniels & other youngsters as the core of the Boomers for the next 3 cycles of the Olympics and World Cups, let’s hope they can work things out between them soon.


As for why Goorjian refers to the offense as a problem but not the defence, it’s classic deflection - by drawing everyone’s attention to the obvious, some of which was outside his control, he deflects analysis and criticism of himself and certain individual Boomers for the defensive lapses.

He can always point back at the Germany game and emphasise that we only lost by 3 against a powerhouse, even though most of us 'knowledgeable fans’ saw the issues from the start of the campaign and the lack of effective alternatives. I’m not knocking the players - they worked hard for the team out there, within their defensive abilities; what they didn’t do as much was work SMART as a unit.
The defensive strategy was on the coaches, and it often failed - too predictable, regardless of who the opponent was and whether it was working or not. As has also been mentioned earlier, the combinations the coaches put on the floor at times were guaranteed to fail on defense.

For me there were lots of things I liked about this WC and lots I didn’t like, but the coaching for me was an epic FAIL overall.

The weird thing about the team is as horrificly as they played at times they legitimately were, as Goorjian said, just a few points off. Had they shot anything approaching respectable against Slovenia they're in the quarterfinals. Had they had the good sense to take Kay off against Germany, they're in the quarterfinals. So there's some promise in the sense that for as bad as we played (and we stunk... let's not sugarcoat it), we may only be a big man here, a shooter there, and a bit of time and experience away from being a contender again - honestly I can't see us playing any worse than we already did. I think the core of the group has a whole lot of potential, but adjusting for losing Landale (and not having the good sense to have a true back up big anyway) probably helped to cause some of the weird defensive mismatches that we saw.

I think next time we need to skew a bit bigger inside. I'd be looking at guys like Humphries, Zikarsky, Bolden, to fill some big man spots next to Landale and Reath. If Bolden is able to come back and play at a high enough level (lets say he's nearing MVP conversation in the NBL and he's grown up and isnt going to walk out on the team) then I could imagine swapping out Kay for Bolden, and having a bigman rotation of Landale/Bolden and Humphries/Reath with Cooks or Simmons playing smallball 5. As I've said with Humphries, he's as close as we have to a "big body" that can actually wrestle around with the Valuniciunus of the world. Having a better big man presence may mean the other deficits don't flare up as badly. But either way I am not about this idea of a 7 year rebuild and "let's contend in 2028". No. Every new tournament is a chance to get it done and we have the talent to do something. The national team isn't like an NBL team where they play yearly and you build a franchise. A lot of the guys playing this year wont be in 2027 and 28 so it would be a shallow rebuild at best. I am all for looking to the future but it should never be at the detriment of the present.

Maker > Humphries
Simmons > Bolden

Zikarsky starting over Baynes for brissy? Probably not. They arent going to put size on him either while he is still growing. They'll wait until next year.

I think rocco gets a call up in lead up games to the Olympics but they wait until after paris to bring him in.

I don't think Maker over Humphries as they play completely different roles.

Another question - is it time Basketball Australia forgives Mitch Creek? Yeah, he's clearly done some bone headed shit. But he also has some attributes that the team would benefit from. He cuts well off the ball. He's tough. He's a solid defender and he can score and shoot the ball. I'd be bringing him into camp and looking at him for back up SF with questions around Thybulle moving forward. On a team looking for guys with a shooter's and scorers mentality I don't see why we continue to ignore one of the best scorers in our league. I am not sure what Mitch has to do to clean his name but I think he's a piece with something to add.

Olgun wrote:

Basketball Australia CEO, Matt Scriven, says this about Boomers head coach Brian Goorjian, in a press release: "Brian is one of the country's most respected and qualified coaches, he is contracted until Paris and our support of him is unwavering... he will be at the helm of the Boomers."

More Scriven: “A full review will be undertaken on every element of this campaign; we won’t shy away from making the changes necessary across the program where they’re needed.”

The Boomers finished the 2023 FIBA World Cup in 10th place.

Brian Goorjian, on preparations for the Paris Olympics: “There is no doubt we’ll have to make some tough decisions around selections but when the time is right, we’ll commence discussions with players around their availability and willingness to represent the green and gold.”

The coach has our full support - how often have we heard that before, and how much can you believe it? And I bet we won't hear any of the review findings unless heavily sanitised for government sponsorship and media.

Isn’t this the Matt Scriven who presided over the Hawthorn financial debacle? Credibility - none!

Cant wait till those at BA are gone...
Would love to know salaries.

Just so many people involved within BA, hard to fathom.

https://www.australia.basketball/about/who-we-are/our-staff


All of those in executive management have been poor for quite sometime.
Scriven, Stirling and Maley have some history.

Re Mitch Creek:

"me attributes that the team would benefit from. He cuts well off the ball. He's tough. He's a solid defender and he can score and shoot the ball. I'd be bringing him into camp and looking at him for back up SF with questions around Thybulle moving forward. On a team looking for guys with a shooter's and scorers mentality"

For what role?

He isn't a shooter, that's why he went nowhere in the NBA.

In terms of role, Dyson Daniels is being groomed for a spot as the long, middling, jack of all trades. A raft of COE guys look to be pushing for a similar role (Proctor, Travers, Dash Daniels, Toohey, Hawke, Henshall, Fenell)

The only people forcing their way in are knock down shooters, and 6'9+, high post facilitators who can rebound well.

A 6'4" power forward isn't shifting the dial for us in FIBA tournaments.

The women beating accusations + the clowns he hangs out with and the nose powder and also he was said to be barking orders at nba vets in practise. probably too much baggage for BA.

For what role?

Yeah, but if we aren't playing the Philippines, we probably want some basketball related role.

Cant wait till those at BA are gone...
Would love to know salaries.

Like all organisations, you have good and bad, BA is no different.

Not in the public service.

Anyone got a breakdown of where the BA money gets spent? How much goes to salaries and their bloated administration?

Watching Serbia and Lithuania right now and there is just light years difference between their offensive intent and purpose and defensive intensity than anything the Boomers did in this tournament.

Yep.

And what I find even more scary is that Serbia seem able to get to the ring so easily that they hardly need their 3-point shooting. They're not even that athletic - they’re just that good.

Anyone got a breakdown of where the BA money gets spent? How much goes to salaries and their bloated administration?

"Yep.

And what I find even more scary is that Serbia seem able to get to the ring so easily that they hardly need their 3-point shooting. They're not even that athletic - they're just that good."

It's the intent, ball movement and the fact that they CAN hit the three. Even if we could hit the three we lacked the first two factors. Serbia aren't more talented than us. But by fuck do they make us look silly in comparison based on this tournament. Certainly there is a feeling they have more weapons but in reality I am not sure they do - it's that they know how to use them. Our gameplan made us less than the sum of our parts.

Looking at the standings and Australia finished 10th. That's probably what we deserved this time around. I can't think of a single team ahead of us who we outplayed or would have expected to beat based on our form, and every team beneath us seems to be justifiably so. We were about "the best of the rest" of those who missed the quarterfinals. We were talented but played like headless chickens.

Serbia
6'4"
6'5" (Two)
6'6" (Two)
6'7"
6'8"
6'10"
6'11" (Two)
7'0" (Two)
----------------------------
Boomers
6'0"
6'4" (Two)
6'5" (Two)
6'7"
6'8" (Three)
6'9" (Two)
6'11"

More Scriven: "A full review will be undertaken on every element of this campaign; we won't shy away from making the changes necessary across the program where they’re needed."

Always some issues with fiba listings

Mills 6'0 - 6’0
Goulding 6’4 - 6’4
Thybulle 6’5 - he measured 6’5.25 in shoes
Exum 6’5 - he measured legit 6’6 in shoes
Green 6’7 - he measured legit 6’5.5 in shoes
White 6’7 - he measured legit 6’6.75 in shoes
Giddey 6’8 - 6’8
Daniels 6’8 - he measured legit 6’7.5 in shoes
Cooks 6’8 - 6’8
Ingles 6’9 - most of his career, he was listed at 6’8
Kay 6’9 - rumours he is slightly less than 6’9
Reath 6’11 - he measured legit 6’10.25 in shoes

Even Gleeson questioned Reath height through the commentary once, on the team photo he was shorter than Cooks, Kay also has exaggerated height. Reath could be that height with his platform basketball shoes.

Got something against reath lol, he is easily taller than Pinder, Kay and cooks. Measurements show that and so do full kit photos of them standing next to each other.

What I wrote is what is written in FIBA.
Most of the players on the Boomers submitted their profile keys in large format. In reality, Green was shorter than Thybulle. Green was similar in height to Goulding.

I'm taking info from actual measurements from combines and camps.
look at the Tokyo Olympic photos, green is certainly bigger than Thybulle.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwHurXkh3BR/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CvlQy3yhvj9/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwCn-JYhwdT/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CvUR4eDBMFn/

Thybulle is certainly bigger than Green.

If you search, Thybulle is taller than Green in all the photos.

https://www.fiba.basketball/api/img/graphic/feb4ddc3-1aa4-4c7c-b71f-85b887f1c6e4/1000/1000?mt=.jpg


They don't measure from the top of thybulles afro.

Nor do they miraculously add imaginary shoes to his socks...

In your photo, Thybulle is not wearing shoes.
Conclusion Thybulle is taller than Green.

I'm going with green by 1cm like the combine measurements say.

Reath is about 6'9 not 6'11

Long wingspan though

Reath was slightly shorter than Landale and taller than the other players.

The same people complaining about defence are wanting Reath to be played more...
There's a big reason he didn’t play more… he’s a traffic cone, especially in the PnR.

How tall is Matt Nielsen? He seems to tower over the whole team

Neilson is a genuine 6'10", there is a lot of fudging out there. Always been the same, imports used to get the pacific shrink by the time they left the US and got to Australia.

If he's 6'10, someone find a photo of him and Reath cos It will prove Reath's not 6'11 like some claimed above

Nielsen and Reath look about the same in the official WC photo. Nielsen looks to have an inch on Cooks. Reath looks like he's 2" taller than Kay, Kay an inch above Giddey, and Ingles similar to Giddey or a touch shorter.

Serbia not only have size throughout, but if Bogdan is their equivalent of Mills as the key scorer, he's got 5" on him. Solid advantage.

Looking at the standings and Australia finished 10th. That's probably what we deserved this time around. I can't think of a single team ahead of us who we outplayed or would have expected to beat based on our form, and every team beneath us seems to be justifiably so. We were about "the best of the rest" of those who missed the quarterfinals. We were talented but played like headless chickens.

Pretty clearly we're behind Germany given how easily they defeated Georgia, Slovenia.

If we had beaten them instead of losing the nail biter though, we would've made a QF.

When you look at say, Canada beating Spain or Germany defeating Australia, or Latvia beating France, there's not much difference between making a Quarter Final and finishing 10th or 11th.

But pretty clearly Serbia, Germany and USA (and Lithuania, until last night) have elevated themselves above the rest.

Canada is an interesting one given their 2nd round form dropped away significantly from round 1. They're an enigma for mine. Hard to guage.

Let's look at the potential incomesrs for next years Olympics.., who’s likely to come in


Qualified for Olympics already 6/12, will be 8/12 by the weekend.
USA
Canada
France
2 of Serbia, Germany, Slovenia, Latvia
Japan
Australia
South Sudan



Australia, Simmons, Landale, ?
Japan, hachimura, thomas
Slovenia, cancar
Serbia, jokic, ?
France, wenbanyama, Embiid?, ?
Greece, antetokoumpo, ?
Italy, Mannion, Gallinari
Latvia, porzingis
South Sudan, Kuol, lualAcuil, bol
Canada, murray, mathurin, wiggins
New Zealand, Adams, Webster brothers
Dominican Republic, Duarte, Horford, minaya
Lithuania, sabonis
Germany, kleber
Puerto Rico, Alvarado
Spain, Rubio, ?
USA, ?
Brazil, ?

Since only one naturalized player is allowed, if Cam Thomas participates in Japan, Josh Hawkinson cannot participate.

He was born in Japan and they are trying to get him on the team + keep naturalised spot.

East Asia is a little different.
Japan does not legally allow dual citizenship.
So, although he was born on Japanese soil, he does not have Japanese citizenship because he was born in U.S. military territory.
As another example, even if he is given Japanese nationality as soon as he is born, he must choose only one nationality until he is 22 years old. So he can't be a local player because, like Hawkinson, he has to apply for special naturalization after the age of 22.

You are correct he is a Japanese born u.s citizen.
Last year they still were pursuing him + a naturalised spot. How they do it, I'm not sure.
Won’t be long before kawashima and tanaka come in too from what the association and japanes3 assistant said last year.

They were also having issues with Hugh hogland(Watanabe) who was born in hawaii but at one time had both him and Rossi ter in the team.

"Qualified for Olympics already 6/12, will be 8/12 by the weekend.
USA
Canada
France
2 of Serbia, Germany, Slovenia, Latvia
Japan
Australia
South Sudan"

The interesting thing with this is USA and Canada are likely to be at opposite ends of the draw so you're looking at two wrecking balls likely to take first place on either side.

If I remember right you've got two x 6 team pools, with the top four progressing to the quarterfinals. You're not going to want to come fourth in that pool.

Lets say you've got ----

USA
Canada
France
Serbia
Germany
Japan
SSD
Australia

And something like
Spain
Dominican Republic
Greece
Brazil

Added to that mix. That's a tough tournament. Plus you've got wrecking balls on either side. I know they arrange the pools by world rank/zone champion so let's try that out.

France should get the easiest pool because they always do that with the home nation and basically slot them in as an area champion.

Let's say the world cup pans out like this -

1) USA
2)Canada
3) Latvia

That's 2 of your zone champions. Japan your third zone champion. Australia your fourth. SSD your fifth. France counts. You're likely to see 3 zone champions on each side of the draw, obviously with vastly different skill levels.

Could see a pool of -

USA
Australia
SSD
Serbia
Brazil
Dominican Republic

v

Canada
Latvia
France
Serbia
Japan
Spain
Greece

Just spitballing here but could see some wonky line ups unless there are rules that place African and Asian champions at a slight disadvantage for being weaker zones, which I think there may be. Obviously it could split any which way for the Boomers but it's still going to be a tough competition with any real potential outcome.

"If I remember right you've got two x 6 team pools, with the top four progressing to the quarterfinals"

Tokyo was 3 pools of 4 to avoid the intentional losing of games.

It was top 2 of each pool, and two best 3rd place teams making up the 8 in the quarter finals.

I don't think FIBA has indicated they are changing this. Likewise the schedule for the group stage games, played on

Sat 27th
Sun 28th
Tues 30th
Wed 31th
Fri 2nd
Sat 3rd

Infer they are likely to keep the same format.

Hugh Watanabe and Cam Thomas are completely different.
Watanabe's mother is Japanese, and both of Thomas's parents are American.

Japan's nationality law recognizes Japanese nationality for a child if one of the child's parents is a Japanese citizen at the time of birth.
However, dual citizenship is not recognized for life. As mentioned earlier, Japanese law requires you to choose one nationality until you are 22 years old. If you do not select Japanese nationality, you will lose your Japanese nationality.

You think Thomas won't be eligible after October this year? Unless he switches citizenship?

1) The correct answer is that Thomas is an American without Japanese citizenship, so even if he receives Japanese citizenship right now, he will still be a naturalized player. (Instead, it is dual citizenship because it is special naturalization. This is the same example as Hawkins.)

2) For example, let's say that when Thomas was born, he received Japanese citizenship. If he renounces his American citizenship and chooses Japanese citizenship before October 13, he will become a local player. But this is virtually impossible. For this to be possible, he must be in Japan now.

East Asia has actually been greatly influenced by the US military stationed there, so there are quite a few cases similar to Thomas. However, because many countries do not allow dual citizenship, a case like Thomas has never been successful.

""If I remember right you've got two x 6 team pools, with the top four progressing to the quarterfinals"

Tokyo was 3 pools of 4 to avoid the intentional losing of games.

It was top 2 of each pool, and two best 3rd place teams making up the 8 in the quarter finals.

I don't think FIBA has indicated they are changing this. Likewise the schedule for the group stage games, played on

Sat 27th
Sun 28th
Tues 30th
Wed 31th
Fri 2nd
Sat 3rd

Infer they are likely to keep the same format."

IN that case you're probably looking at 2 zone champions per pool and I think with France also taking one of those spots. I believe if you end up with a weaker zone champion they lump you with a stronger 2nd/3rd placer ie, if you get SSD you probably get number 2 from Europe or Americas. That's how I think it goes anyway? I will have to look back at what the structure was last time. Either way, margin of error is small and likelihood of unpleasant match ups are high

Kleber won't play for Germany while Schroder is in the team, disappointing friction between the two.

Interesting article here based off an interview with Goorjian. The big takeaway (and big improvement for the program) that I see is thhat they're going to change the way they approach the warm up schedule. ABOUT TIME! We can't expect to play some Mickey Mouse games against a bunch of bum teams and to be a contender. This is the excerpt for that:

"The Boomers are almost certain to prepare for the Olympics overseas, with a view to a pre-tournament Olympic camp that would be followed by games against high-quality opposition and then another training block to iron out any issues unearthed."

I'd like to think that training block allows for the changing of personnel when needed. Someone like Keanu Pinder could have been quite valuable to a team missing Jock Landale and probably gives you more of a consistent inside presence than Reath was able to. Certainly the bigman department will take some revisiting.

He also says he expects the improved shooting to come mostly from the current group in improvements from Josh Green, Dante and so on.

Entire artice can be found here:

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/basketball/first-interview-boomers-coach-brian-goorjian-bares-all-on-fiba-world-cup-disappointment-calls-for-his-resignation-whats-next-for-paris-olympic-campaign/news-story/7b190f6fab147ed00adc28616df024fc

I found this blurb about an interview he gave; not sure if it's the same one.

"Brian Goorjian has hit out at the “nasty" reaction from online “cowards” to the premature end to the Boomers’ World Cup campaign and revealed he has already begun work on preparing for his fourth Olympic campaign.”

Yeah, right - is it cowardly to identify obvious issues and to suggest ways to address them?

He was quoted as saying that the Boomers needed a reality check (I think he said 'smack’ in the article about the interview). That suggests to me that he’s pointing the finger at the players (but he might possibly mean the whole program from BA down?)

Knowing how Brian loves to talk, I wasn’t surprised that this particular interview was a loooooong one, no doubt with lots of self-justification. Much as I’d be curious about what he said, I can’t be bothered giving up that much of my day. But if anyone can give us a summary of what he said, I’d be keen to read it.

He pushin the Germany beat us by just 3(leaves out the injured wagner)and we beat slovenia last time by doubling doncic.

There was a lot of self justification. I think realistically yeah, the 3 point loss to Germany doesn't look like the big blunder it did at the time, in hindsight, Wagner or not. But that doesn't excuse an absolute embarrassment at the hands of Slovenia - a team we should have taken care of.

He says he believes the ceiling for this team is higher than that of the Rose Gold team, and that's great. But it can't be tapped into if he is going to come with a whole range of new excuses next time as to why the team didn't win.

His answer to CG43 not playing was he was "underdone" (ehhh his warm up game against Georgiasays otherwise) and that Daniels was very speicifically told pre-tournament that he'd be watching and learning this time around.

He says he's going to spend the off season preparing for the Olympics but then other side of his mouth says he's open to taking up a contract. I don't think he should be taking up another contract. I think he should be getting this thing prepared and if he can't spend all this time doing that, I am sure Trevor Gleeson can.

He seems to think the reactions are overblown and says things like "look, we went 3-2". Yeah, we went 3-2. We beat garbage teams that we should expect to beat quite easily. Had we played 4 social teams and 1 decent team and went 4-1 we wouldn't suddenly have an impressive winning record.

The worrying thing for me reading it, is that while some of his justifications make some sense, there's a feeling that things wont be done that much differently moving forward. We're going to bench shooters if theyre not 1000 percent healthy, we're going to grovel over referee calls rather than control the controllables, and it seems like Goorj wants to get all the shooting from the pre-existing group. He's stubborn. I don't think I like it.

I think this group needs to look outside of itself for answers and at a bunch of guys who may not be on most people's boards when it comes to the team but that could offer shooting or size.

It'll be all the same, Inglis said he’s playing and no one else will give up there spot, Goulding will be out to show change and then it’ll be interesting.

Yep, Kay getting major minutes at the 4 and ingles not leaving until his dead...
People should be worried.


8/12 qualified, who do we beat?

Australia
USA
France
Canada
Serbia
Germany
Japan
South Sudan
The 4 going through qualification obviously will be very good.

Weaker teams still to get better…
Japan add 1 or 2
Sudan add 4-6


We probably finish 8-12 if we take the same squad plus Landale

Yeah the group will stay mostly the same, Landale will come in and hopefully Simmons too.

Daniels to move into the rotation, Exum plays more 2, Goulding to miss...

The solution to 3 point shooting is Exum and Green ?

This decision might come down to proctor and how he goes this year...


With Cotton…
Giddey / Proctor or Mcdowell-White
Mills / Cotton / Daniels
Green / Exum
Simmons / Cooks or White
Landale / Reath / Maker or Pinder


With Thybulle…
Giddey / Exum
Mills / Proctor or Vasiljevic / Daniels
Green / Thybulle
Simmons / Cooks or White
Landale / Reath / Maker or Pinder

I mean for me.. my decision.

Goorj got ingles, Kay and goukding locked in probably.

I think the team just didn't have the balance mixed with Patty/Ingles being cold and generally off.

I don’t think it’s Goorjs fault that the team had to go the Cooks/White/Kay/Reath route. I thought even with Landale, he’d be the X factor that we rely on heavily given he would have had, in my mind at the time, very little backup for lack of a Baynes type or Simmons.

I don’t think lack of shooting is entirely a Goorj fault either although I was definitely perplexed with his lack of putting Goulding on to see if he can do what he did in past tournaments.

Imbalance, our leaders going cold plus prominent ins through Giddey, Cooks, White etc who haven’t played in major tournaments before was never really going to get the job done.

They did well vs Germany to keep it tight, not so well against Slovenia. That was a disappointment.

Overall - I don’t really blame Goorj that much, but I’d love to see a style of bball we saw Lemanis implement because when we have an offence flicking the ball around Spurs style with Giddey’s absurd passing ability, it could propel us into medal contention again especially with the defensive ability of Green etc.

Good comment, KET

I'd also like to see us use our (heavily-spruiked) athleticism and get the ball down the court a lot faster. We don’t have to finish with a layup every time, but at least it will avoid half-court traps and put pressure on the opposition. Better than forcing us into half-court offense so often, which Euro teams are expert against and which we didn’t have the structure or teamwork or dominating bigs or shooters to do well at.

Weedy, I just cannot see BA reversing their commitment to Matisse, or that Cotton gets naturalised quickly enough for Paris.

I hope your faith in Proctor comes up trumps, because he sounds like a very exciting talent. We certainly need at least one (young) gifted shooter who will consistently be in the Boomers squad for the next decade.

Proctor might be the next big thing in Aussie ball... but he's not a shooter…


Goulding not up to FIBA level and Ingles limited.

Lemanis would have the same issue with this group, lack of offensive spacing due to lack of shooters

Putting my Boomers cap on, Delly and Baynes have both had big Blitzes so far and if the form carries through the season could well have another camp look. Creek as well, doing all the things the Boomers sorely lacked (shooting, scoring, defending). Of the young guns, Armstrong, Henshel and Olbright look the goods. And we already know about Zikarsky.